Pleased that the bugs and exploits have been fixed

[mcl0v1n]

I, personally, am pleased that Brawl has adressed the issues with bugs/exploits in the physics engine of Melee. Yes I am talking about Wavedashing etc.
*prepares for flames*
Does anyone else share my satisfaction?

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Things like wavedashing only added more depth to the game. There is no reason to hate it.

 

[ynnek123]

*sigh*
first post? Well, it sure is a bad introduction of yourself...

 

[Grunt]

wavedashing=bug?
I lol in your general direction.

 

[acv]

wavedashing isnt a bug.

reasearch a little.

 

[KHSteve]

Beating a dead horse?

 

[momochuu]

<_________<

It wasn't a bug, and I actually kinda wish it was back.

Get ready for "OMG '08 NOOB!" btw.

 

[mcl0v1n]

Are you guys saying that the designers wrote the code for airdodge with that technique in mind?

 

[MarKO X]

and just when i thought it was over... lol...

maybe if someone teaches him instead of just burning him to ashes...?

Okay, WDing isn't a glitch. I don't think it was intended, but it wasn't a glitch. What happens is WDing is simply the result of air dodging diagonally to the ground immediately after short-hopping... well, that's the way most people do it, but you can also WD from a full hop as well, it just won't look as pretty as the WDing u know of, but depending on the situation, it's just as effective. No glitch. The only reason why it's not in Brawl is because you can't airdodge diagonally (although you can do it as many times as you want).

 

[4Serial]

oMG '08 NOOB!

 

[acv]

oMG '08 NOOB!

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Are you guys saying that the designers wrote the code for airdodge with that technique in mind?

No, but it added depth to the game. The more depth the better.

By the way, the developers knew wavedashing was there. They didn't remove it though.

OMG 08 NOOB

 

[WhoIsMrBlack]

Um guys, you're just being nitpicky.
By saying 'hey Wavedashing isn't a bug n00b' you're missing the point (note he also wrote 'exploits' and there is no doubt WDing is an exploit). The point is, mcl0v1n reckons it's good that Nintendo addressed something that wasn't originally intended for the game and I agree with him.
And for the record, I can wavedash so don't go saying 'you n00b you can't do it that's why you don't like it'

 

[mcl0v1n]

What are you 'omg 08 noob' people doing on the brawl forums anyway?

@marko: I am aware of what wavedashing is, and how it is accomplished. Perhaps I should have worded my post more carefully. It is not so much a bug or glitch as an exploit.
Clearly, Wavedashing was not intended by the producers. Air Dodge was intended, and WaveDash exploited an oversight on the behalf of the programmers/designers/testers. In most online games, this would have been fixed within months of discovery. For example, Dolphin Diving in BF. This involved running, jumping, going prone in mid-air, and then landing while still running. It made one difficult to hit, and was fixed quickly. I see Wavedashing as such an exploit that needed fixing.
Dolphin Diving, just like Wavedashing, gave those players performing it an advantage over others playing the game 'normally'. The game was not meant to be Battlefield: DolphinDive, just as Melee was not intended to become Super Smash Bros WaveDash.
I'm just saying that I am glad that Brawl adresses this issue, and shifts the focus onto more of the core smash gameplay.

EDIT: @hippochinfat: srsly?

 

[Vulcan55]

If it aint broken, why fix it?

and

oMG '08 NOOB

 

[L__]

I, personally, am pleased that Brawl has adressed the issues with bugs/exploits in the physics engine of Melee. Yes I am talking about Wavedashing etc.
*prepares for flames*
Does anyone else share my satisfaction?

Ok, I for one do not share in your satisfaction. I can see where you are coming from, but want to know why you haven't exploited this for yourself. By the way, I'm trying to prevent a massive flame war between people with experience, and people with 4 posts. People have searched long and hard for these "Bugs and exploits" as you have decidedly called them. It has been 7 years if I'm correct since the beginning of the "reign" if you will of the entity that we have decidedly called Melee. Brawl on the other hand has only been around for a few months and has received great fanbase due to it being a new release with its aesthetics and content. Just because Brawl has removed these mechanics does not mean anything. There will always be the possibility that Brawl will evolve into a massive entity, or it may fall flat on its *** like 80% of veteran smashers want it to. Enough said, people have different tastes.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

let me apologize first: i'm probably about to be an ***, but it's nothing personal, i just really want to express something and am incapable of doing it otherwise. i'll try and keep it civil:

well, mcl0v1n(great freakin' name by the way, real witty -.-), wavedashing may be out, but open your eyes: that doesn't change the fact that brawl has plenty of glitches/bugs/"cheap" tactics. so nothing's really changed. i'm interested to see how you'll deal with it. because i know there are PLENTY of people who whined and *****ed about wavedashing and SHFFL-ing who are now advocating brawl advanced techs. i am judgemental and i hold no respect for those people.

let me ask you to do something: take a look at pikachu's Quick Attack Cancel. now go to a mirror and tell yourself that it's not a bug. seriously there are so many more glitches in brawl than melee and yet people are still rejoicing that wavedashing is out. once again: all you people like that, open your eyes. wavedashing did not win the game. l-cancelling did not win the game. short hopping did not win the game. these aren't "i win" buttons. the sooner you realize this, the more valid your arguments will be.

and if those tactics are so cheap, why not use them? is your sense of morality REALLY stopping you? "oh i can't wavedash, i'll be less of a person if i do." come on now, that is bull-freakin'-crap. first off, it's just a game. second, it doesn't take away from the fun at all. rather, it takes limtations and pushes them. thirdly, i think you're all just too lazy to learn them or have better things to do. in that case, you have no right to whine about it.

 

[mcl0v1n]

Thanks for your intelligent input, L.

In regards to exploiting it for myself, it isn't much fun playing against my friends and defeating them so badly that they don't want to play any more (please see Zero Punctuation: SSBB for the 'That Guy' section).
And because Brawl has removed these mechanics, it means something to me, as I have expressed in this thread.

Frankly I am shocked at how one-sided this flame war is. It is virtually all vindictive melee lovers spamming the ever-impressive display of skills that is "omg 08 noob". Isn't there anyone on the BRAWL forums who actually enjoys brawl? Or is everyone here just melee-loving flamers with nothing better to do than hover like vultures on the BRAWL forum and belittle those of us with an opinion other than "melee <3<3 brawl is teh sux"?

EDIT: whoa ppl are posting quicker than i can respond :/
@emus: thanks for trying to keep it civil. You may have come across somewhat aggressively, but I can see where you're coming from in your first two paragraphs. Of course there will be similar exploits in Brawl, but so far I haven't heard of any that are as pivotal as WaveDashing and the like. Nothing in Brawl has shaped the way it is played like WaveDashing shaped Melee. If I am wrong about this, someone please correct me.

In response to your last paragraph: I don't think Wavedashing etc is "cheap"; I don't know why people jump to conclusions and think I am whining about WaveDashing.

All I have said is that I am glad it was removed for Brawl. And not one of you has asked me why.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

let me clear this up. i used to hate brawl. i used to be what you think i am.

i am not.

let me repeat.

i am not.

i have friends who play brawl and i'm ok with that. hell, it's a fun game: i play it too. i'm just pointing out that for all your rejoicing that "wavedashing is out," there are sitll plenty of ways to exploit brawl and you're not seeing the other side of this argument.

and what is this arrogance? if you used exploits, you would beat your friends so badly that they wouldn't want to play anymore? these exploits took time to master and use effectively. did i not say that wavedashing etc...did not win the game? i know somebody who does NOT exploit at all, who will beat all us exploit-users. and i will recognize that skill.

i am not apologizing this time. clearly, you need to read more carefully and think more carefully. realize your situation: effectively, nothing's changed.

 

[mcl0v1n]

See my response to your original post, emus.
My friends are casual players, without any knowledge of advanced techniques. Using ATs against them made them feel inadequate and disadvantaged, since they didn't have the practice and were unable to perform such techniques. Sorry if my comment came across as arrogant, it was not my intention.

 

[L__]

Thanks for your intelligent input, L.

In regards to exploiting it for myself, it isn't much fun playing against my friends and defeating them so badly that they don't want to play any more (please see Zero Punctuation: SSBB for the 'That Guy' section).
And because Brawl has removed these mechanics, it means something to me, as I have expressed in this thread.

Frankly I am shocked at how one-sided this flame war is. It is virtually all vindictive melee lovers spamming the ever-impressive display of skills that is "omg 08 noob". Isn't there anyone on the BRAWL forums who actually enjoys brawl? Or is everyone here just melee-loving flamers with nothing better to do than hover like vultures on the BRAWL forum and belittle those of us with an opinion other than "melee <3<3 brawl is teh sux"?

Honestly, did I say "omg 08 noob" ? Did you never read any of my posts?

I'm not against Brawl as a game. I'm just against it as a skillful technical fighter.

To be honest, we need to find a way to merge with less conflict.

this isn't helping. at all.

You guys, if Brawl were to die in the next year, we're going to lose a massive portion of our "Smash community."

Okay it's people like you that are constantly starting wars with people who favor Brawl. People on this site have a decreasing sense of maturity in which people are judging a game purely on a simpleminded base. For example, you will say Brawl sucks, but you do not have irrefutable evidence that a game sucks. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but please do so without triggering a war between tons of people over a sentence as STUPID as Brawl sucks because....(insert ******** statement here)
And to those playing Brawl that say Brawl is better, don't judge a game by its aesthetics and how many things it has. Look at Melee, its aesthetics aren't godlike, but it was a huge step from SSB64 and introduced many things. It increased the standard for the SSB franchise competitively. Of course, I'm not saying that everyone has to revert to SSBM, I'm just saying it's far more developed as a metagame and requires intense knowledge up until the point where we are counting frames. Brawl as we can see was meant to be a casual game; but all Sakurai did was create a competitive game that requires less skill. (At least that's what we turned it into.)

Basically, stop starting idiotic arguments based on a false sense of pride due to history or looks.

But one thing, there are going to be idiots with the notion that a game is better due to its history or aesthetics rather than personal preference. And thanks to that, they create needless arguments based on idiotic ideals.

Those are just some posts.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

before i forget: why are you glad wavedashing was removed?

i might point out that exploits are exploits. it shouldn't matter how pivotal they are as long as they give the edge to the person using them. i might also point out that exploits are still skills earned. if one worked at it, why not use it? there are running shoes that will give you the competitive edge against a person wearing walking shoes. should we make all shoes uniform?

if you're glad that the developers addressed the issue from a game design standpoint. then i have wasted both your and my time and that...i will apologize for. however, the majority of people who are glad ATs are out disliked them because of the edge they gave the users. therefore, i made the assumption that you were the same. human tendency, human error...i will apologize for that too.

i am really interested in hearing why you're glad ATs are out.


-edit: i intended to come across as aggressive. i wanted anybody who denounced melee ATs and hawking brawl ATs to feel hypocritical, immature, and just plain stupid, to put it bluntly.

 

[ynnek123]

hey, I did 08 noob first!!!
well, kinda

 

[RPK]

They should have been cool like the makers of Guilty Gear when the fan base found a glitch, instead of erasing it, they just added it to the book so it was no longer a glitch, and with it being in the book people will learn how to do it. If not, its their loss. That would have been nice instead of taking it out, but instead of saying, hey this is pretty cool, so now apart of the game, they just took it out. They should have just left it in and then put the techniques in the manual so other people can do it too and not just a select few who go on the internet looking for this stuff. If they did that, I bet the line between players would dwindle to the small line that it is now.

Though onto the topic at hand, it is a pity that they took it out. But no matter. Brawl in my opinion is now more of a game of the mind instead of technical skill. I think of it as Street Fighter 3rd Strike. Instead of a fast paced game, it is more of a game of Chess. Its slower, and there arent many exploits you can pull off, but instead its more about mind games then anything else. Its still more then enough to make a line that separates the good players and the bad players.
Plus, right now, people are still messing around with the physics engine for the game, so give Brawl time for more advanced techs and exploits to make the gameplay for them faster. Though if Brawl dies it dies. -shrugs-

 

[L__]

They should have been cool like the makers of Guilty Gear when the fan base found a glitch, instead of erasing it, they just added it to the book so it was no longer a glitch, and with it being in the book people will learn how to do it. If not, its their loss. That would have been nice instead of taking it out, but instead saying, this is pretty cool, its now apart of the game and in the manual so other people can do it too and not just a select few who go on the internet looking for this stuff.

...That's a great idea that I've been pondering for quite some time.

 

[4Serial]

hey, I did 08 noob first!!!
well, kinda

nope, i did =]

 

[RPK]

It sucks that it wont happen...Hahaha, or what they should have done is make it like Arcana Heart and put in two different modes. One with Melee physics and the other with Brawl Physics. And then cut down on the 1 player mode for more space on the disc for that idea because no body liked that hack of a side scroller. <3 for Brawl </3 for SSE

 

[mcl0v1n]

@L: no, please don't misunderstand me. I made a point to thank you for your contribution, and my finishing statement in that post was by no means directed at you.

@emus: I wouldn't say that all ATs are out, as you mentioned there are plenty in Brawl. As I have mentioned, they are just not as influential.

As to why I'm glad that wavedashing is out...I just think that ATs in Melee got out of control. It felt like to have any respect playing that game, you had to be able to do wavedashing etc. It warped the game, and I believe it excluded a lot of people who didn't have the time/patience/skill to master them. I know people who didn't join the competitive scene because of the astonishing amount of ATs that are assumed knowledge.
By removing these ATs, Brawl opens the door to people to really get into it and enjoy it competitively. People won't have to spend hours in practice mastering every AT to feel like they belong in a tournament. Sure they might be shocked by Pikachu's QAC (zomg pun not intended), but it's something that's easy to pick up and they shouldn't feel inadequate for not knowing about it.
And before the flood of "<07 proz" gets on here and flames about the competition levels...let me say this: grow up. Someone with more practice and skill should win a 1v1 on Brawl. The gap may not be as wide now, but like I've said, I think that's a good thing.

 

[Psylark]

I never played melee with techniques - at all, as I only ever played it at my friends. Now I miss melee. I hate Sakurai for nerfing Brawl like this. They could have just added characters, the SSE, and a few new modes, and made a few changes to the engine, like making it a tad slower, but they made it worse.

 

[L__]

Oh, lol. Thought you typed "it isn't much fun playing against my friends and defeating them so badly that they don't want to play any more" as an attack on me. Go figure. Its 2:42am and I haven't had sleep in nearly 24 hours. Not to mention I'm dying from a sugar rush.

 

[mcl0v1n]

Jesus H Christ you lot post too fast.

RPK both are pretty good ideas, the first of which would really put me and people like me in my place. Unfortunately, Nintendo isn't that smart :/
They did pretty much the opposite though, and reinforced my idea that is was an unintended exploit by removing it from Brawl.

 

[WhoIsMrBlack]

PsychopathicEmus, did you stop to think about that for a second? I know my friends stopped wanting to play me once I learned to Wavedash. Hooray, I can play 'competitively' (to an extent) but I can't play with my friends non-stop like we used to. Guess which situation I liked better, before or after?

L, I don't think he was referring to you with the omg 08 noob comment. Just the faction of people that pointlessly said it.

Now for a key point I'd like to raise. (Speaking to no one person specifically)
The main argument I see AGAINST brawl is 'people who add more depth to their game don't get rewarded nearly as much in Brawl'
Anyone can spend lots of time practising and perfecting their Brawl play but they now do so KNOWING that it won't be as gamebreaking as it was in Melee - it's their own choice to do that so they can't really complain when it doesn't give them such an advantage.
And honestly, how many people spend time learning all these ATs because they want to get better and how many people spend time learning all these ATs because they want to be as good as someone else? (Don't go saying how stupid this sounds, think about the point I'm making)
What about those that spent lots of time on Melee? You can't say they did that without knowing full well the next game would play differently. Anyone that spent hours practising/perfecting Melee did so knowing they would get better at Melee - surely they didn't expect all that to carry over to the next game too. Why should they feel like Brawl has screwed them over when it was obvious what would happen? You had your time, it was good, now choose to keep playing Melee or move on to Brawl. No point complaining.

Someone once posted on here late last year saying they wanted to learn and asked what it would take to play Melee 'competitively'. Someone simply told them 'Don't worry about it, Melee's time is almost over'. Exactly.

 

[L__]

GOOD NIGHT!!...MORNING..

good god. we need more people that can provide ideas instead of lame crap like...hi brawl is for l33t gamers!! TEEEHEHEHE

...ugh

i have a headache...

aspirin?

goodbye mclovin' i suppose i'll "chat" with you later then.

 

[RPK]

It might be a good thing that the gap between players has shortened but I dont like that really...I mean like a fighting game, you have to put more then just a couple of minutes into a character in order to pick them up. Though now you can actually do that. You dont have to practice to beat a person who has been training in this game for months while you only trained for like...a week probably? (Not saying you in particular...Nor anyone else in this thread...) It just seems silly that a person who picks this game up can easily put themselves on the same level as another person who has practiced for a long while with just only a couple hours. (This oviously isnt possibly but it can happen.) So yeah...I can say this. I would have liked it if the AT's stayed because those who practiced the game longer to get better at actually have an edge over those new players.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

i don't think it was that way at all. i did not know about advanced techs at all until i met one person. and even then, i didn't feel inadequate just because i couldn't do them. in fact, i was fascinated and wanted to learn to wavedash and all that. and i certainly hope i didn't make any of my friends feel inadequate just because they couldn't wavedash.

it seems that those who can't wavedash don't want to put the time into learning how to do it. if that's the case, if somebody did put the time into it and learned to use it effectively, wouldn't it only be fair for that person to then be "better" or have an "edge" in the game? whether or not ATs were supposed to be intentional is irrelevent. human intelligence will find a way to break limits. i can see brawl reaching melee's level. if that's case, smash players will forever be divided.

-edit: @whoismrblack: i know my friends didn't care about whether or not i could wavedash. they played for fun and didn't care whether they won or lost as long as they got to play. it's not like my wavedashing removes a button from their controller. but you raise a good point. we had our time, it was good, it may be coming to an end. point taken, i'll hold my peace.

 

[Yuna]

I'm sorry, have you played Brawl? Glitch and bug central. The bugs and glitches are more numerous than in Melee and they're more physics breaking than Melee's ever was.

I'm disappointed in you guys for not pointing this out sooner (I did skim though, so someone might have)

PsychopathicEmus, did you stop to think about that for a second? I know my friends stopped wanting to play me once I learned to Wavedash. Hooray, I can play 'competitively' (to an extent) but I can't play with my friends non-stop like we used to. Guess which situation I liked better, before or after?

The fact that your friends are obvious Scrubs doesn't mean anything.

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

The fact that your friends are obvious Scrubs doesn't mean anything.

lol, that's real cute, considering that his friends obviously are not competitive players.

what do you like to do casually? maybe you play football. but you aren't a proffesional football player (at least i'm guessing not), therefore your a huge scrub. Maybe you like to write casually, but your not a published author. How scrub-tastic.

 

[MarKO X]

^^^

*instigates*

oh, this could be interesting...

 

[Yuna]

lol, that's real cute, considering that his friends obviously are not competitive players.

Scrub =/= n00b

People really need to learn the real definition of a Scrub. Look it up. There's nothing wrong with being a Newbie. There's something wrong with being a N00b. Everything's wrong about being a Scrub.

 

[Azuro]

Leprechaun, the fact that they won't play him because he decided to pick up an AT and beats them with it IS rather stupid, regardless of how casual they play the game. Why not just simply learn about it a bit?