Player-1 Vs Reflex/Kismet (first thread :3)

[Player-1]

First thread



Vs Kismet (falco):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK9r4btM64U&list=UUzwpgSjMke-UEcu-4JP4HcA&index=31&feature=plpp_video

Vs Reflex Winner Finals (first 2 matches are from a pools set, but it was still 1-1):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86OQfNRnKpU&list=UUzwpgSjMke-UEcu-4JP4HcA&index=42&feature=plpp_video

Vs Reflex Grand Finals 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i0Hj0KNPQU&list=UUzwpgSjMke-UEcu-4JP4HcA&index=66&feature=plpp_video

Vs Reflex Grand Finals 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhTqHHYpTAg&list=UUzwpgSjMke-UEcu-4JP4HcA&index=65&feature=plpp_video

 

[GOofyGV]

Fosrt post in first threat =3

I love your stile, good games.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Against Wario, you need to use a lot more backwards JC item toss to punish his approaches. It's better than glide toss for most situations in this match up

 

[Player-1]

there isn't any difference in glide tossing and JCT as far as uses go...

 

[Geoberos]

JCT allows you to immediately throw during your dash animation where as you have to wait for the animation to end before it utilize your shield button for a glide toss.

I assume that backwards jump-cancel toss is running away from the opponent then JCT towards the opponent.

But otherwise this is pretty much the only use I can think of for JCT. Everything else is more comfortable with GT.

 

[Player-1]

I'm pretty sure that's only for your initial dash that you have to wait for the animation to end (i.e foxtrotting)

 

[Zinoto]

idk about the JCT thing, but against I think you tried to chase him too much. Wario is a bait & punish kind of character and Reflex pretty much waited for you to throw something out and then punished you for it. Just be more patient and glide toss down while moving back for landing traps. Another thing is you can't keep throwing that fair out there. I think I picked it up from you because I realized I did it against Ally and he just waited for it and punished it (kind of like Reflex). Use more grabs and get him in the air, then punish his landing. Lastly try to recover higher instead of low. Everytime you used side b offstage you got wafted because you were too low. Either use it early or just not at all.

I find it funny that I can tell how much you guys play each other (way tooo much lol). Some of you guys reads didn't make any sense and probably came from the fact that you know each other so well.

 

[Player-1]

ya kismet told me the same thing about the fair also and I know I use it a lot too so I guess I can try to work on that. It doesn't help when your training partner is a Marth/Luigi main (and fox) and fair wrecks those chars pretty hard.

I don't know about the grabs and putting him in the air though, Wario usually wants to be in the air and with his superior air mobility it's really REALLY hard to punish some of his landings unless there aren't any platforms in the way. Wario (and Reflex) can punish whiffed grabs pretty well so I usually try not go for grab reads too much, usually only if I know I can get it or I have a good chance of getting it.

 

[Zinoto]

ya kismet told me the same thing about the fair also and I know I use it a lot too so I guess I can try to work on that. It doesn't help when your training partner is a Marth/Luigi main (and fox) and fair wrecks those chars pretty hard.

I don't know about the grabs and putting him in the air though, Wario usually wants to be in the air and with his superior air mobility it's really REALLY hard to punish some of his landings unless there aren't any platforms in the way. Wario (and Reflex) can punish whiffed grabs pretty well so I usually try not go for grab reads too much, usually only if I know I can get it or I have a good chance of getting it.

I wish I had a luigi main to practice wish, I almost got messed up by Yoshq this weekend, barely pulled off wins. Jab grab seemed to work well when you did it. The only wario I really play is Bpow and it works on him, so I'd use a jab to confirm for the grab. Also, you play kismet a lot so if I post a vid of me and Arty can you give me some critique on it later? I get so confused by the falco match up.

 

[Player-1]

ya i can help

 

[SaveMeJebus]

there isn't any difference in glide tossing and JCT as far as uses go...

I'm pretty sure glide tossing doesn't give you a boost from a full dash animation.

 

[Player-1]

I'm pretty sure you're wrong.


Even so then pivot tossing would still be better since it'd be a frame faster than JCT and a GT

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You can't pivot toss out of a dash without glide tossing or JC item tossing

 

[Player-1]

yes you can, that's what a pivot toss is. Dash, go into skid animation, throw back/down/up, you cancel your skid with a throw.

edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222412

 

[SaveMeJebus]

yes you can, that's what a pivot toss is. Dash, go into skid animation, throw back/down/up, you cancel your skid with a throw.

edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=222412

Skid animation is not a dash animation

 

[Player-1]

i guess you didn't see the "Dash" in front of all of that

 

[SaveMeJebus]

i guess you didn't see the "Dash" in front of all of that

It's still done out of the skid animation. Skid and dash are not the same. that's like saying braking and accelerating are the same. they are two completely different animations

 

[Player-1]

I mean, I guess you can't directly do it, but that aside, it's still irrelevant to your original point that I should be JCT when GT is the exact same thing and pivot tossing would be better

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You don't get the boost from a glide toss if you are doing it while running.

 

[Player-1]

Yes you do

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Keep doing what you're doing then. It seems to be working out so well for you

 

[Player-1]

Ingulit, would you mind banning Jebus from the critique forum? He's just going to give everyone terrible advice and incorrect facts.

 

[DEHF]

That's Jebus

 

[Zinoto]

DEHF, teach me how to beat D:

 

[DEHF]

I dunno, ask ADHD.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

That's Jebus

Larald is just mad because I cheered for TKD instead of him

 

[GOofyGV]

lol this threat

 

[SwordofStorms]

I have a quick question.. What is more beneficial to utilize with Diddy: Tap jump on or off ? Also, Please give me the upsides to whichever one you side with. I really need some advice to help me get my bearings, because I tend to doubt my control setup alot.. I would greatly appreciate a reply from any of you guys.

Thank you.

 

[Zinoto]

I have a quick question.. What is more beneficial to utilize with Diddy: Tap jump on or off ? Also, Please give me the upsides to whichever one you side with. I really need some advice to help me get my bearings, because I tend to doubt my control setup alot.. I would greatly appreciate a reply from any of you guys.

Thank you.

Tap jump off will probably end up being more beneficial. I believe most diddy's turn it off

Pros:

1. Allows you to tilt your shield all the way up. (MK's tornado -_____-)
2. No accidental jumps offstage when trying to fight your way back onstage (our recovery is bad enough)
3. Tilts can be used freely.

Cons:

1. You have to use x/y to up-b/up-smash out of shield *not a huge problem because diddy's up-b oos is silly (P1 remembers Vengeance lol) and I can do usmash oos just as fast with it on.*
2. You can't up out of your dash animation without hitting x/y (for barrel cancelling)
3. You have to hit x/y to use the rising up b (there's a pretty big window for this and you can buffer it).

These are the pros/cons i used when deciding if I wanted it on/off. The cons are kind of wonky and are easy to get around imo.

tl;dr Turn it off lol

 

[SwordofStorms]

Thank you so much man. I just really needed another Diddy main's opinion better yet a top player like yourself 's advice. I was wondering if a rising b-air is worth tap jump "on". I remember seeing some oos rising bairs and thought that would be a nice tool to use against shield-pressured moments.

all in all, Thank you for the help. It did give me a gauge of how helpful tap jump is or is not.
Maybe sometime i can post a vid and have you critique it and whatnot. Of course, one cannot expect much, but regardless, I am training for a michigan tourney this saturday, so I wanted to prepare. lol

 

[CYVE]

personal preference imo, i play with tap jump on

 

[Zinoto]

Thank you so much man. I just really needed another Diddy main's opinion better yet a top player like yourself 's advice. I was wondering if a rising b-air is worth tap jump "on". I remember seeing some oos rising bairs and thought that would be a nice tool to use against shield-pressured moments.

all in all, Thank you for the help. It did give me a gauge of how helpful tap jump is or is not.
Maybe sometime i can post a vid and have you critique it and whatnot. Of course, one cannot expect much, but regardless, I am training for a michigan tourney this saturday, so I wanted to prepare. lol

Oh you're from MI too. What tourney are you prepping for?

Also, for a bair you can just use x and slide your thumb to A.

 

[Dre89]

I don't see why upb oos is that bad. I was fooling around with Diddy in friendlies and because I main Bowser I was instinctively using Diddy's upb where you would use fortress and it worked pretty well for me.

The hit box is all around him and it's one of his fastest attacks, plus you don't get punished unless they're at a very low percent.

 

[Zinoto]

I don't see why upb oos is that bad. I was fooling around with Diddy in friendlies and because I main Bowser I was instinctively using Diddy's upb where you would use fortress and it worked pretty well for me.

The hit box is all around him and it's one of his fastest attacks, plus you don't get punished unless they're at a very low percent.

It's REALLY laggy and you're assuming that you hit them. If your opponent shields it, they can use almost any move they want to punish. On stages like PS1 where you can crash into the fan to deal like 20% to your opponent it's a nice mix up, but pretty much anywhere else the risk-reward isn't there.

Also, even at mid percents (sometimes even high-mid) you can still be punished even if you hit the opponent.

 

[Player-1]

Up-b OoS is frame 8, usmash OoS is frame 5

 

[SwordofStorms]

Oh you're from MI too. What tourney are you prepping for?

Also, for a bair you can just use x and slide your thumb to A.

you know what, I am not sure. One of my friends told me there was one coming up. I assumed it was the one that was the 26th and I didnt realize that tourney was in NJ.. Long story short, I will PM you or something with the details once I get a better Idea. I dont mean to be a tease or anything lmfao.

 

[Schwa]

Last time I played vs a Wario I noticed that you can press Z while in skid animation and close to his bike and you'll pick it up. It's a lot faster than just standing next to it and pressing A.