PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

[Delta-cod]

I heard PSI Magnet is good at killing Snake.

 

[Chuee]

Only when he uses C4 to recover, which rarely ever happens.

 

[AvariceX]

Only when he uses C4 to recover, which rarely ever happens.

I've been putting this technique to use in nearly every game against Snake (which is a lot) that I've played since the minute this technique was discovered. Actually, make that every game against Snake, and though it doesn't always result in a gimp it doesn't matter. It works often, it risks nothing, and it's easy. Even when it doesn't work who cares? Jump back on the stage and go back to playing normally, nothing changes. This is seriously the best find for Ness in a long time.

Here's your scenarios:
Snake is recovering from above the stage - don't do it, nothing new here.
Snake is recovering from below - go out to magnet gimp him, it now branches into 1 of 3 scenarios:
1 - he doesn't know what you're doing until it's too late and dies. (likely, at least until the first time it works)
2 - he DI's away from the stage to C4 himself again for better positioning, you still win out here because you forced additional damage on him; not every edgeguard needs to yield a kill to be profitable. (likely once he learns how the magnet gimp works)
3 - he DI's toward the stage and techs it, you either A) manage to gimp him before he reaches a techable spot, or B) jump back on the stage and nothing happens. (likely if his name is Ally)

There's one very very important detail that all 3 of those scenarios share: no risk. No matter what happens, if you do this at a time when it isn't stupid to do so (such as when Snake isn't low enough to need C4) you will never be punished for this. Learn it. Do it. Love it.

 

[Chuee]

Snake shouldn't even be C4ing to recover in the MU.

 

[Levitas]

Snake shouldn't even be C4ing to recover in the MU.

why's that?

That sounds like "marth shouldn't ever need his up B vs yoshi" to me...

 

[Chuee]

because he only uses C4 if he can't make it back with the cypher. If he DIs right he should never need it against ness.

 

[Delta-cod]

why's that?

That sounds like "marth shouldn't ever need his up B vs yoshi" to me...

Where'd this come from? O.o

Some Snake's use C4 to recover when they realize they'll be spiked or something from their current position. It does have its uses.

 

[AvariceX]

Snake shouldn't even be C4ing to recover in the MU where people don't know how to steal his second jump with jabs and dtilts because those people are bad.

I went ahead and fixed that for you . Snake has been my second for a long time, he's not a character who I lack understanding of.

 

[Chuee]

JAB!?!?!?!?
DTILT!??!?!?!?!
I hope you know if snake cyphers that close to you you'd be better off grabbing him. Snake's never do that though.

 

[AvariceX]

I said second jump. Not cypher.

oh down-angled ftilt works too... or nair sometimes.

 

[Earthbound360]

Dtilts and jabs r better for eating scond jumps. Bigger hitboxes and easier to time. Easiest way to get this to happen is to grab a Snake right by the edge, grab release, dtilt flurry. If they DJ, then you have their DJ and you can do watever u wanna.

 

[GreyClover]

Don't think you'll be able to punish Snake's DJ much. Snake's likes to recover really high right after DI'ing.

Though depending on what Snake's % is and what attack you do (like Fair>Snake falls off stage, sets up a good position for you), you can attack his DJ or cypher.

 

[Chuee]

Don't think you'll be able to punish Snake's DJ much. Snake's likes to recover really high right after DI'ing.

This.
10char.

 

[milesg2g]

oh
I 4got to mention.
Snake can get juggled in the air by Ness easily.
You can even kill him w/ PKT if his health is high enough
I do it all the time in 2v2's when snakes use their cyphers to flee.

 

[Uffe]

Does anybody know if grab releasing Snake by the edge will do Ness any good as far as trying to spike him goes? I know Ness has no grab release, but I don't know what other term to use. And Snake mains often try to recover high enough, too. It doesn't mean it's not possible to do something about it, though. Jump your PK Flash or use your uair or maybe a nair to knock him further away from the stage.

 

[AvariceX]

Grab releasing Snake over the edge puts him in a better position for you to edgeguard him than any of your throws anyway. fthrow puts him so far away that you won't be able to reliably chase him and dthrow just puts him slightly above you if he DI's into the stage. Grab releasing puts him below the ledge level and that's what you want.

 

[Zatchiel]

The kid is back, and hes lookin for some good advice ahem
(Pulls out a Memo)

My friend is a good Weegee player online, but the only reason he wins is because of the online lag.
Hes in ohio, and im, well, here>.>

The lag is so awesome, i cant come back as easy as i can using Pk Thunder,
Meaning i have no recovery besides the second jump.

Does anyone have any advice? Im Gerogia's best Pk Player offline, But this
Still dos not help the fact that i cant play online, anyone have any helps?

 

[Delta-cod]

You should stop playing Wi Fail and take it less seriously.

Only advice I have.

 

[Zatchiel]

cool, ill try with somebody else, thanks dude

 

[Delta-cod]

Really, WiFi isn't something to take very seriously. It reeeeally messes with Ness's game, I've found. I never use Ness if I play WiFi these days.

 

[Zatchiel]

i know, i dont play online unless nobody is at my house and im really bored...

 

[Uffe]

Obviously offline is better. But if you can't get a ride somewhere or if you don't have people to play, then just stick with playing online. But if I were you, I'd try to find someone who isn't in as much lag, because it can really mess you up if you don't play offline as much. Like Delta-cod said, don't take wifi seriously. My advice would be to have you or your friend get a better connection. At least try to get a better connection, that way the lag isn't as horrible. Be sure that you're not downloading or letting something load online while you're playing Brawl online, because that'll make the lag just as bad.

 

[Eagleye893]

ness w/ lag isn't terrible... its just the fluctuating lag that destroys him....

also, who are we discussing again? if it's ganon, im pretty sure 60-40 or better in ness' favor is agreed upon

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Mario boards are rediscussing Ness, contrary to the current title of the thread. =P

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256410

 

[Yink]

Nessers, as the MU runner, please PLEASE be nice. >_> Mario mains will be too.

 

[Delta-cod]

Nessers, as the MU runner, please PLEASE be nice. >_> Mario mains will be too.

Blatant lie.

But, at your request. =/

 

[Yink]

I'm thinking next month we're going to start re-discussions, starting with F tier. Sound good?

 

[Uffe]

I'll give my response, again, after they change the title from Peach to Ness. We've had this discussion not too long ago, either. 55:45, Mario, obviously.

 

[*Tyson*]

F tier sounds great, whatever you want to do Yink.

 

[Yink]

Ahh good to hear. I hope we get a lot of Nessers in here to chat. I seem to be good enough at bringing people in.

Next month it is!

 

[milesg2g]

Ness F tier?

 

[Yink]

Ness F tier?

Last time I checked he was E.

 

[ViceGrip]

Mario's still say it's 60:40 Mario but it's DEFINITELY 55:45 Mario.

 

[Uffe]

Mario's still say it's 60:40 Mario but it's DEFINITELY 55:45 Mario.

And it's not because ViceGrip says so, either. I just happen to completely agree with this notion fact.

 

[Sync_]

So we just leave this topic alone for a week?

 

[Yink]

So we just leave this topic alone for a week?

Pretty much. I plan on starting up in March. We WON'T start with Ganon though, seeing as we just talked about him and got a lot of help from the Ganons.

 

[Sync_]

Let's do MK. Oh wait.

Link? He's a fun character to play.

 

[Yink]

Alright ladies, the new TIER LIST v4 is out, here it is:

Tier List Version Four

TOP
S

HIGH
A
B

Middle
C
D
E :shiek:

Low
F
G ​

Condensed Version:
S: Meta Knight
A: Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Ice Climbers, Marth, Wario
B: King Dedede, Pikachu, Olimar, Lucario, Mr. Game & Watch
C: Pit, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Kirby, R.O.B.
D: Donkey Kong, Peach, Fox, Luigi, Wolf
E: Sheik, Pokémon Trainer, Sonic, Ness, Bowser
F: Lucas, Ike, Yoshi, Mario, Falcon, Samus, Jigglypuff
G: Zelda, Link, Ganondorf

---

The Brawl Back Room in general seems to be very excited about how well the Middle Tiers have panned out. We hope that in itself it creates a strong balanced metagame with a lot of diversity for future side-events.
On the other hand, Low Tier now officially loses Pokemon Trainer, Ness and Bowser, as we do not consider E Tier as a Borderline Low. However, Ness & Bowser were originally voted as Upper Low, but rather than another tier both were bumped into E. Hence, one could consider both Ness and Bowser acceptable characters in Low Tier tournaments.

---

That means in March, 2010 we will start to re-discuss Match Ups (MUs). Starting with Hyrule G tier and work our way up. Any objections?

 

[_clinton]

LolZeldaremark

 

[Eagleye893]

sounds good.... lets do it!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

but skip gdorf..... we just did him...