"PK Thunder!!!" A Ness Discussion Board: Hosted by some Pikachu main

[soju]

Well since this board isnt really looking too hot. I think I'll try helping to bring it back to life.
Oh and please don't hate on me since I'm not a Ness main >.<'

Well then here we can discuss anything PK related: from Ness strategies, to how awesome he is, or even how you can do those awesome Yo-Yo tricks of his.

Even though I don't main Ness doesnt mean I don't know anything about our little Babe Ruth, so feel free to ask any questions here also and I'll answer to the best of my abilities.

So happy hunting to all you Ness players, and I'll add more to this if I see any signs of life in here.

 

[Shy Guy!]

You said "yo-yo tricks", is there more then one???

 

[thesage]

YYG can be performed with both u-smash and d-smash. U-smash is much easier to do though...

 

[Shy Guy!]

Does anyone have this glitch so down packed they do it in game?

 

[thesage]

Reik and Toasty are the best at doing it. I did it once in a friendly...

 

[Shy Guy!]

I cant do it all, maybe once every 50 tries, im to busy trying to master PKT lol

 

[thesage]

what about pkt are you trying to master?

 

[Shy Guy!]

Recovery and ledge hog things i have seen

 

[thesage]

Practice getting down the basic angles for recovery, wall riding. Pkt ledge hog is cool, but not really that useful. Get down the basics like wd'ing, djc'ing, and l-canceling first.

 

[toasty]

YYG can be performed with both u-smash and d-smash. U-smash is much easier to do though...

STOP SPREADING LIES! XD

cripes man, how many times do we have to say that you can only execute a YYG with usmash?

unless there was something new that came about that I'm unaware of, you can ONLY set up YYG with usmash...though to my knowledge you can EQUIP both usmash and dsmash JACKETS after executing the glitch

I could be wrong...

but yeah, I've gotten the glitch off in tournament more than a few times...Simna is/was also quite proficient at using it in tourney

 

[thesage]

D-smash can be used to do the yyg. I've done it myself on accident before and I've seen it described on the boards in the yyg thread. I'm too lazy to dig it up now, but I'll say how to do it here

Charge d-smash
Hit something with the charge of the d-smash ~ happens on a certain frame, i think it's when the yoyo creeps forward
Get hit while chargining d-smash



Right now I'm going to start experimenting with pk fire and f-tilt. Pk fire is a piece of ****, but it may be useful somehow maybe. F-tilt might be able to be used for spacing?

I also need to get better at spacing with fair. I use djc too much.

 

[toasty]

you need to trust all the times I've told you that ftilt is awesome...like those matches of Hax vs. Nando's Falco? you know how Hax kept trying to dtilt against the Firebird and it didn't work [because of the angle]? If he just used Ftilt, he would've had that stock in the bag

it's a mini-Ganon Ftilt. it's slightly weaker, sure, but at high damage it will either KO or it'll edgeguard because of the trajectory of his ftilt, regardless of DI [char. dependent, afaik]

PKFire is good if you can edgecancel it and other situational stuff [will list later...mad tired]


edit: yyg with dsmash? you sure?

word.

 

[Shy Guy!]

Mad nice toasty, i love seeing the yyg in matches they are so unexpected and awesome lol

And i got down lcancel's and wd and stuff like that, had to learn it for my top tiers lol, but that pkt stuff is really hard for me and DBJC isnt as hard as everyone makes it out to be i think.

 

[TemPesT-]

Ness is probably one of the funnest low tiers to play. i think young link is my favorite, but ness yoshi and m2 all have a special place in my <3 with there low tier djc games :D

i enjoy playing ness vs bad spaceys lol. and trying to set jackets etc. but i wish he had a better approach =/

 

[toasty]

doing an usmash out of shield against a Capt. Falcon nair is probably one of the easier and more frequently occurring situations where a YYG can be executed in a real match

[baiting Link's grab is the easiest...but your chances of seeing a CF in tourney are much greater than seeing a Link in tourney]

 

[Shy Guy!]

I have been seeing no CF's lately :[ and my favorite matchup is anyone vs CF

 

[TemPesT-]

is it possible to jab reset YYG? i wanna say i've done it, but now i'm not sure =/ (on a computer, not on a real opponent) this would be a sick set up tho.

 

[Shy Guy!]

Wouldnt it be more worth it to do something else after going through the trouble of yyg? I wish you could jump off the map and do a down air and have them sucked up into it and spiked lol......or can you.....no right? lo

 

[toasty]

I think he means "can you jab reset and have time to space the YYG during their wake-up"

I'm pretty sure it's possible..don't see why not

 

[Shy Guy!]

Ohhh alright, and i dont know, i tried a couple times and i couldnt get it. I figured if it worked I would of seena video of it sometime.

 

[TemPesT-]

i'll try it later :D

maybe i should pick up ness as a low tier. i dont play enough low tiers anymore =/

 

[Shy Guy!]

Let me know if it works! im really curious

I cant do it, enless i just cannot get the YYG today

 

[TemPesT-]

if it does work, simple dair dair jab reset (i do this with falcon a lot if they miss tech, i assume it'll work with ness) then try to set up a YYG would be super hot.

 

[thesage]

D-tilt can "jab lock" at low percents.

Look at videos with people doing the yyg and you'll get the timing.

I don't do u-smash oos since I'm bad at anything oos. I need to work on that part of my game.

Personally I think yyg is kinda overrated. Why not just hit them with the move you're jacketing. Only useful for thunder jacket really...

 

[Shy Guy!]

I dont think its overrated at all. If you can do it everytime you try you could use it for a sweet kill without trying or set up for a crazy combo, plus its mad flashy lol

 

[thesage]

Jc u-smash comes out in 14 frames (1 frame for jump, it takes 12 frames for the u-smash to start charging + 1 frame of charge). 36 frames of endlag.

Djc uair comes out in 12 (4 frames to get airborne, 8 frames to hit with uair + 1 frame so you don't hit the ground when you dj). That's correct if you can double jump and aerial on the same frame (pretty sure you can, will test it out with ar later). Around 10-11 frames of endlag (counting from when the uair first comes out) depending how fast you djc.

DjC nair comes out in 9 (4 frames to get airborne, 5 frames to hit with nair + 1 frame of being in the air so you don't hit the ground). Around 12 frames of endlag.

Dj Landed u-tilt comes out in 14 frames (4 frames to get airborne + 1 frame of dj to hit the ground + 4 frames of landing lag + 5 frames for u-tilt to come out). 34 frames of endlag.

Grab comes out on frame 8 and has 22 frames of endlag.

Sh Fair comes out in 12 frames (4 frames to get into the air, startup of fair is 8). Endlag is 30 frames (26 frames of being in the air + 4 frames of landing lag). Fair will hit in between frames 12 and 25.

Shffl Fair comes out in 12 frames (4 frames to get into the air, startup of fair is 8). Endlag is 25 frames (16 frames being left over in the air + 9 frames of landing lag). Fair will hit between frames 12 and 25.

It's faster to shffl fair the sh fair. Did not know that lol.

Sh Dair comes out in 24 frames (4 frames to get airborne plus startup lag of dair). Endlag is 14 frames (10 frames left of being in the air + 4 frames of landlag).

Shffl dair comes out on frame 24 (4 frames to get airborne plus startup lag of dair). Endlag is 14 frames (No more frames of being in the air + 14 frames of landing lag)

Sh dair is superior because the hit box stays out longer.

Is this stuff right in ur guys' opinion?

 

[TemPesT-]

reset YYG works. dtilt is easier to use then jab because it's a bigger range which is where you need to be for the upsmash.

 

[Shy Guy!]

MAd good info again thesage, you never dissapoint lol

Also thats awesome the reset works, i might be able to use it in game now

 

[thesage]

It's really easy to do u-smash out of shield. Just point both sticks upwards. Figured that out tonight.

Also I learned this last week. When you're on the edge you can press away with the c-stick to let go. Not really useful with Ness, but still...

Ness' ledgegrab range is really good. Abuse it.

My ness is falling behind my Peach by a lot now. I can do fc's pretty fast with or without hitting somebody now. Djc I can only do quickly if it's bair/fair or djc uair and I hit somebody. I need to work on my djc uair and nair.

You can **** Zelda by hitting her once and then platform camping. Pretty sure I posted this before, but I wanna make sure you guys know. Platform camp like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTNaAUJZz5k

If you're fast enough, you can do this on any platform stage except like FoD and counterpicks I'm not thinking of right now. If she jumps on one platform, run away to the opposite platform. If she tries to uair you from under the platform, jump. If she jumps onto the top platform from a side one, drop onto the bottom. Evade and repeat.


I made another thread a couple of days ago (I forgot about this thread) where I posted some other stuff, so look at that too...

 

[toasty]

I'm too tired to read all of this so I skipped all kinds of text-walls...sorry.

I'll say this much though:

I usmashed-oos against a Jigglypuff who was spacing a nair and then equipped the uair/"star" jacket (the absolute least obvious one to equip if you throw out an uair RIGHT before you land on the ground...don't even have to DJC it<---that makes it obvious anyway]

...then I just started shielding and waited for him to approach and "bait" again so I just rolled toward him like he wanted me to and he was at a decent enough percent so he was KOed off the top because he had no DI since he didn't even know he was gonna get hit with anything



the reason I explain this is to show if you're good enough at getting a yyg set up in a match [provided it's not something you spam/attempt-spam to the point where your opponent is conditioned to reacting to your usmash regardless of yyg execution], there IS a good deal of utility that favors say...an uair-jacket as opposed to trying to get close enough to Jigglypuff where you can DJC-uair or something.

 

[thesage]

I guess I should work on my yyg game then... hmm...

 

[Shy Guy!]

How did your ness do against jiggly?

 

[toasty]

pretty badly

;__;

 

[thesage]

Against Jiggly I just play slow and camp fair. It's a really boring matchup, but then again, it's Jiggs. I'm glad like 0 people play her now...

 

[Shy Guy!]

Oh that sucks, i never tried the matchup. Who is the game in favor of? Jiggly right?

 

[thesage]

Jiggly obviously. I think a lot of people overrate how bad the matchup is though...

 

[Shy Guy!]

Least favorite matchup with any character :[

 

[thesage]

I think Samus is more annoying. You have to be so lame to fight her...

 

[Shy Guy!]

Yeauh but jigglypuff's are so annoying, No matter what match it is on the ladder or who it is whenever a jigg wants to fight i unplug and walk away lol

 

[thesage]

IMO Samus is more annoying but it's basically personal preference.