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Social PK Love - Lucas Social Thread: “Inside the mailbox was absolutely nothing”

Karna

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
4
Instead of just complaining, I felt like I should show off what I'm talking about so people understand since I had the capabilities of doing so, hope you guys enjoy/understand what I've been talking about!
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3riqb9/lucass_design_flaws/
Holy crap, that was depressing. Lucas's uair makes me cry every time. All it seems to be good for is the PK Hoo-Hah, which is frankly kind of an unreliable kill setup. It's been a super long time since i played Brawl, and seeing how his nair, uair, and dair worked in that game again makes me question why they changed it in any way. None of them autocanceling is just the icing on the cake.

I don't even want to talk about how stupid Dsmash is. It could have been such a great shield pressure move, but instead you pretty much lose a stock if it gets shielded. I can't believe Bowser can drop shield and Fmash you as a punish. That's absurd.

But the final nail in the "unfinished character" coffin is his grab. After seeing that ZELDA'S FSMASH beats it, I'm not even going to refer to it as a tether. Right now, getting the grab is incredibly important for Lucas, and his grab is terrible.
 

BlueberrySyrup

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Holy crap, that was depressing. Lucas's uair makes me cry every time. All it seems to be good for is the PK Hoo-Hah, which is frankly kind of an unreliable kill setup. It's been a super long time since i played Brawl, and seeing how his nair, uair, and dair worked in that game again makes me question why they changed it in any way. None of them autocanceling is just the icing on the cake.

I don't even want to talk about how stupid Dsmash is. It could have been such a great shield pressure move, but instead you pretty much lose a stock if it gets shielded. I can't believe Bowser can drop shield and Fmash you as a punish. That's absurd.

But the final nail in the "unfinished character" coffin is his grab. After seeing that ZELDA'S FSMASH beats it, I'm not even going to refer to it as a tether. Right now, getting the grab is incredibly important for Lucas, and his grab is terrible.
Its not about the grab, its that he cant give enough pressure to get that grab.
 

Doctor_Link

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meleebrawler

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Good video Blue!
Yeah, great! Except for the fact that it brings Lucas's metagame advancement to a screeching halt by scaring away prospective mains through bad word of mouth in the hopes that buffs will, maybe, MAYBE come.

But other than that, terrific!
 

Patriot Duck

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Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Messages
147
Yeah, great! Except for the fact that it brings Lucas's metagame advancement to a screeching halt by scaring away prospective mains through bad word of mouth in the hopes that buffs will, maybe, MAYBE come.

But other than that, terrific!
Precisely.
If tomorrow Sakurai announced there would be no more balance patches, would we just drop Lucas altogether? We shouldn't be considering the prospect of buffs, we should be working with what we've got.
 

BlueberrySyrup

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If it isn't brought to the attention that our character has flaws and isn't very good, Sakurai might think he's okay and then he will never get buffs, leading him to fall off during the life cycle. This is something I will not accept, I've been waiting too long for my boy to come back and I'll do whatever it takes to make sure people realize he isn't as good as he seems if he can't get a grab.

And thanks Mekos :)
 
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Login_Sinker

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Regardless of whether or not people keep playing him, Lucas has issues and isn't viable. I understand that not everyone will be, but as long as there is a chance of it through patches, I'm gonna keep pushing for Lucas buffs as well.
 

Mekos

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If people quit playing Lucas because of a YouTube video then they don't deserve to play him...

We play lucas for the love of the character. He has always been low tier. It's just a shame how trash they made him in this game (for top level competitive play).

Like I said before. All the other low tiers from brawl are better in smash 4 while Lucas is basically the only one who got worse. It saddens the heart.
 
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BlueberrySyrup

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If people quit playing Lucas because of a YouTube video then they don't deserve to play him...

We play lucas for the love of the character. He has always been low tier. It's just a shame how trash they made him in this game (for top level competitive play).

Like I said before. All the other low tiers from brawl are better in smash 4 while Lucas is basically the only one who got worse. It saddens the heart.
</3 Only we know the pain of the love for our character. Lucas is one of the only main antagonist that is bottom tier now. How do we get it out to the community to prove Lucas isn't as good as what people make him out to be? He has no results, and gets beat by a lot of characters, imo his matchup spread is -1's all across the board.
 

A Polar Bear

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For Christ's sake, I can't stand this circle jerk of bemoaning and self-pity anymore.

The recent fad seems to be wistfully looking back at Brawl Lucas and wishing Sm4sh Lucas was more like that, but looking past all the positive bias towards that, Brawl Lucas was awful in his own right, with his aerials being more often than not outclassed by others despite being... what's that magic word again... ah yes, autocancellable, his inability to kill efficiently outside of smashes, a poor grab that has little reward most of the time, and a pretty much useless offstage game, all of which is exacerbated by his 40 frame grab release bullsh*t. He may have had the ability to rack up damage very well, or had the ability to create d-tilt locks, but other characters in that game could achieve the same end result with much less effort.

Sm4sh Lucas loses his "dominant" aerial abilities, which is apparently the only thing Lucas will ever have going for him and he will now never be viable without them. Honestly, the presence of a long lagless z-air with a projectile eating hitbox is already a boon to his neutral game, and he still retains a good, if not improved, ground game with deterring jabs and d-tilt that sets up into everything. And it's not like his aerials are useless now either, with a n-air that strings into other moves well enough that people still want to shield against it, and a b-air that's safer on stage against grounded opponents and actually spikes very well, which, along with other tools, giving him considerable offstage presence. I acknowledge the weakness in needing to use a terrible grab in order to get the most rewards with him, but Lucas is definitely not cut down to the point of being unable to put on enough pressure to make opponents want to shield, so find ways to get it.

There's a number of other small improvements made with Lucas' moves, all of which is seemingly overshadowed by having what Lucas was strongest at in Brawl neutered. But you know what that calls for? A change in playstyle. Labbing up. Working harder. You all knew and accepted the possibility of being handed a subpar character when Lucas was announced for this game (which that in and of itself is still a goddamn miracle in my eyes), but the one thing I personally cannot stand is complaining. Not when Zelda and Bowser and Kirby fans have had to suffer through this same thing for 3 games, and certainly not when it's from the person who made Brawl Lucas feared and respected, or the person who created such hype montages for Sm4sh Lucas.

It took years for Lucas to make the slight presence he had in Brawl, thanks to the few dedicated players he had. In this game he's barely been here for 3 months. In my opinion, he's never going to be massively high tier based just on character design, in the same way Sonic is made super fast, or Ganondorf super powerful, or Pikachu super agile. And whining and relying on possible game patches to fix the issues he has instead of working around them is, in a way, shameful.

Seriously though, cut down the griping, for at least the rest of page 167.
 

meleebrawler

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For Christ's sake, I can't stand this circle jerk of bemoaning and self-pity anymore.

The recent fad seems to be wistfully looking back at Brawl Lucas and wishing Sm4sh Lucas was more like that, but looking past all the positive bias towards that, Brawl Lucas was awful in his own right, with his aerials being more often than not outclassed by others despite being... what's that magic word again... ah yes, autocancellable, his inability to kill efficiently outside of smashes, a poor grab that has little reward most of the time, and a pretty much useless offstage game, all of which is exacerbated by his 40 frame grab release bullsh*t. He may have had the ability to rack up damage very well, or had the ability to create d-tilt locks, but other characters in that game could achieve the same end result with much less effort.

Sm4sh Lucas loses his "dominant" aerial abilities, which is apparently the only thing Lucas will ever have going for him and he will now never be viable without them. Honestly, the presence of a long lagless z-air with a projectile eating hitbox is already a boon to his neutral game, and he still retains a good, if not improved, ground game with deterring jabs and d-tilt that sets up into everything. And it's not like his aerials are useless now either, with a n-air that strings into other moves well enough that people still want to shield against it, and a b-air that's safer on stage against grounded opponents and actually spikes very well, which, along with other tools, giving him considerable offstage presence. I acknowledge the weakness in needing to use a terrible grab in order to get the most rewards with him, but Lucas is definitely not cut down to the point of being unable to put on enough pressure to make opponents want to shield, so find ways to get it.

There's a number of other small improvements made with Lucas' moves, all of which is seemingly overshadowed by having what Lucas was strongest at in Brawl neutered. But you know what that calls for? A change in playstyle. Labbing up. Working harder. You all knew and accepted the possibility of being handed a subpar character when Lucas was announced for this game (which that in and of itself is still a goddamn miracle in my eyes), but the one thing I personally cannot stand is complaining. Not when Zelda and Bowser and Kirby fans have had to suffer through this same thing for 3 games, and certainly not when it's from the person who made Brawl Lucas feared and respected, or the person who created such hype montages for Sm4sh Lucas.

It took years for Lucas to make the slight presence he had in Brawl, thanks to the few dedicated players he had. In this game he's barely been here for 3 months. In my opinion, he's never going to be massively high tier based just on character design, in the same way Sonic is made super fast, or Ganondorf super powerful, or Pikachu super agile. And whining and relying on possible game patches to fix the issues he has instead of working around them is, in a way, shameful.

Seriously though, cut down the griping, for at least the rest of page 167.
That he has not just good, but great reward on his slow grab (which is actually the least unsafe tether in endlag, at least when standing), with followups and KO setups that last for ages, then KO throws in pretty much any direction for when those stop working, and which can actually itself be set up with a much faster move in dtilt is pretty great all around, definitely more than can be said for other characters (hello Samus).

And he's capable of KOing in the air too, especially with sweetspot fair and the "terrible" uair. He's much more flexible in trying to getting the kill now instead of just throwing smashes.

The Mewtwo boards have gone through basically the same phase of whining and patch praying, only recently getting a number of actually productive threads done so who knows.
 

BlueberrySyrup

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That he has not just good, but great reward on his slow grab (which is actually the least unsafe tether in endlag, at least when standing), with followups and KO setups that last for ages, then KO throws in pretty much any direction for when those stop working, and which can actually itself be set up with a much faster move in dtilt is pretty great all around, definitely more than can be said for other characters (hello Samus).

And he's capable of KOing in the air too, especially with sweetspot fair and the "terrible" uair. He's much more flexible in trying to getting the kill now instead of just throwing smashes.

The Mewtwo boards have gone through basically the same phase of whining and patch praying, only recently getting a number of actually productive threads done so who knows.
Sweetspot fair doesn't kill til very high unless they're off the stage.
 

Trunks159

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That he has not just good, but great reward on his slow grab (which is actually the least unsafe tether in endlag, at least when standing), with followups and KO setups that last for ages, then KO throws in pretty much any direction for when those stop working, and which can actually itself be set up with a much faster move in dtilt is pretty great all around, definitely more than can be said for other characters (hello Samus).

And he's capable of KOing in the air too, especially with sweetspot fair and the "terrible" uair. He's much more flexible in trying to getting the kill now instead of just throwing smashes.

The Mewtwo boards have gone through basically the same phase of whining and patch praying, only recently getting a number of actually productive threads done so who knows.
This is what I'm trying to say. The scarcity of self esteem in this thread is depressing. Not the first board I've seen go through this phase though. The Marth boards, M2, Falco, have all hone through their pms.
 

Lochy

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God all of you guys are so down in the dumps about Lucas. In this iteration of smash where everyone is viable to an extent, I don't think you have to worry about him. He is a good character that's like B+ tier. If none of you cared about this character so much he wouldn't even be in this game.
Thank you for Lucas, and all the little ups and downs that make him worth playing.
 

meleebrawler

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I don't even want to talk about how stupid Dsmash is. It could have been such a great shield pressure move, but instead you pretty much lose a stock if it gets shielded. I can't believe Bowser can drop shield and Fmash you as a punish. That's absurd.

But the final nail in the "unfinished character" coffin is his grab. After seeing that ZELDA'S FSMASH beats it, I'm not even going to refer to it as a tether. Right now, getting the grab is incredibly important for Lucas, and his grab is terrible.
Maybe instead of using dsmash to hit shields or people standing right in front of you, which is what the stick is for, you use it mainly as a deterrent against run-ins or to hit people at the ledge? In those situations you're much less likely to eat a big punish.
 

Lochy

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I keep seeing people say Lucas is high tier, but honestly lol, what Lucas is getting results?
Not many but he hasn't been out for that long. Also the reason he probably isn't getting results is because of this:

Peoples reaction when Roy is out: OMG he was my melee main he was so cool I can't wait for my baby to finally be back!!!!

When Ryu came out: Awesome new character, I love street fighter, he looks so strong cant wait to main him.

When Lucas came out: Lucas who? Just a ness clone, doesn't look fun, im gonna play someone else. How can you expect a character that isn't played that much to get results?

Tldr: when all 3 dlc characters came out lucas was the least hyped, least played and payed the least attention to.


Also Pink Fresh did really well with him at Xanadu.
 
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KaptenFullkorn

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Not many but he hasn't been out for that long. Also the reason he probably isn't getting results is because of this:

Peoples reaction when Roy is out: OMG he was my melee main he was so cool I can't wait for my baby to finally be back!!!!

When Ryu came out: Awesome new character, I love street fighter, he looks so strong cant wait to main him.

When Lucas came out: Lucas who? Just a ness clone, doesn't look fun, im gonna play someone else.

Tldr: when all 3 dlc characters came out lucas was the least hyped, least played and payed the least attention to.


Also Pink Fresh did really well with him at Xanadu.
I almost didnt buy Lucas... Im glad i did.
 

Kodystri

the PK Spamming Lucas Main
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I just beat 6wx in a Money Match 3-1 with Lucas :). Although I had mediocre results at Tipped Off, I feel kind of happy about that.
 

Login_Sinker

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I just beat 6wx in a Money Match 3-1 with Lucas :). Although I had mediocre results at Tipped Off, I feel kind of happy about that.
Man I'd love to see a video of that if he used Sonic. I'm still convinced that MU is against us by a fair margin.
 

Kodystri

the PK Spamming Lucas Main
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Man I'd love to see a video of that if he used Sonic. I'm still convinced that MU is against us by a fair margin.
He did use Sonic and it was not recorded unfortunately.

It was Game 1. I got bopped pretty bad.

Game 2. It was even, but he SD'd
Game 3 and 4 I won kind of convincingly.
 
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DashGarnett

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
21
For Christ's sake, I can't stand this circle jerk of bemoaning and self-pity anymore.

The recent fad seems to be wistfully looking back at Brawl Lucas and wishing Sm4sh Lucas was more like that, but looking past all the positive bias towards that, Brawl Lucas was awful in his own right, with his aerials being more often than not outclassed by others despite being... what's that magic word again... ah yes, autocancellable, his inability to kill efficiently outside of smashes, a poor grab that has little reward most of the time, and a pretty much useless offstage game, all of which is exacerbated by his 40 frame grab release bullsh*t. He may have had the ability to rack up damage very well, or had the ability to create d-tilt locks, but other characters in that game could achieve the same end result with much less effort.

Sm4sh Lucas loses his "dominant" aerial abilities, which is apparently the only thing Lucas will ever have going for him and he will now never be viable without them. Honestly, the presence of a long lagless z-air with a projectile eating hitbox is already a boon to his neutral game, and he still retains a good, if not improved, ground game with deterring jabs and d-tilt that sets up into everything. And it's not like his aerials are useless now either, with a n-air that strings into other moves well enough that people still want to shield against it, and a b-air that's safer on stage against grounded opponents and actually spikes very well, which, along with other tools, giving him considerable offstage presence. I acknowledge the weakness in needing to use a terrible grab in order to get the most rewards with him, but Lucas is definitely not cut down to the point of being unable to put on enough pressure to make opponents want to shield, so find ways to get it.

There's a number of other small improvements made with Lucas' moves, all of which is seemingly overshadowed by having what Lucas was strongest at in Brawl neutered. But you know what that calls for? A change in playstyle. Labbing up. Working harder. You all knew and accepted the possibility of being handed a subpar character when Lucas was announced for this game (which that in and of itself is still a goddamn miracle in my eyes), but the one thing I personally cannot stand is complaining. Not when Zelda and Bowser and Kirby fans have had to suffer through this same thing for 3 games, and certainly not when it's from the person who made Brawl Lucas feared and respected, or the person who created such hype montages for Sm4sh Lucas.

It took years for Lucas to make the slight presence he had in Brawl, thanks to the few dedicated players he had. In this game he's barely been here for 3 months. In my opinion, he's never going to be massively high tier based just on character design, in the same way Sonic is made super fast, or Ganondorf super powerful, or Pikachu super agile. And whining and relying on possible game patches to fix the issues he has instead of working around them is, in a way, shameful.

Seriously though, cut down the griping, for at least the rest of page 167.
I completely agree, I don't understand why people keep reminiscing on the past. Brawl Lucas was bad and a lot of his moves either improved or had slight changes. His up-air while the hit box is small around 100% is a down-throw to up-air TRUE COMBO set up, IT KILLS. His down smash while not amazing in neutral in which is shouldn't be used there. It gives amazing ledge pressure. Character with no hit boxes on their up-B's are usually unable to grab the ledge when the down-smash is timed right. There may be some problems but lets not dwell on the past and focus on developing the future of Lucas in Smash 4 today.
 

Kodystri

the PK Spamming Lucas Main
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</3 Only we know the pain of the love for our character. Lucas is one of the only main antagonist that is bottom tier now. How do we get it out to the community to prove Lucas isn't as good as what people make him out to be? He has no results, and gets beat by a lot of characters, imo his matchup spread is -1's all across the board.
Dude he isnt bad. mid tier imo. He can stand his ground against a lot of top tiers.
 

meleebrawler

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I completely agree, I don't understand why people keep reminiscing on the past. Brawl Lucas was bad and a lot of his moves either improved or had slight changes. His up-air while the hit box is small around 100% is a down-throw to up-air TRUE COMBO set up, IT KILLS. His down smash while not amazing in neutral in which is shouldn't be used there. It gives amazing ledge pressure. Character with no hit boxes on their up-B's are usually unable to grab the ledge when the down-smash is timed right. There may be some problems but lets not dwell on the past and focus on developing the future of Lucas in Smash 4 today.
And his uair is actually disjointed, too. Not a big one, but a disjoint nonethless.
 

Trunks159

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So uh, what's Lucas' prevalence in the Mother series? Is he like some Shadow type rival of Ness or something?
 

A Polar Bear

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187
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So uh, what's Lucas' prevalence in the Mother series? Is he like some Shadow type rival of Ness or something?
HAHAHAHHAHAHA
HAHAHA
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

I'm sorry.

He's from a different game than Ness, set in the same general timeline. They don't know each other canonically. But there's a reason why so many people regard Lucas as their own precious child. Look up or play Mother 3 to find out more.
 

KaptenFullkorn

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Sooo... Direct coming up this week. Buffs? -maybe. Nerfs? -stay away please! Maybe its no balance patch at all, who knows its nintendo afterall amirite
 

Awakining

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Sooo... Direct coming up this week. Buffs? -maybe. Nerfs? -stay away please! Maybe its no balance patch at all, who knows its nintendo afterall amirite
Honestly, at this point as far as buffs go I'd be happy enough with AC FAir and a grab fix.
 

Doctor_Link

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And a Dair fix, please.

Or would that be a bit too broken to have a move that links properly over the span of a second with four hits, with the last hit having a generous spike box?
 
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