Pit's placement in June 2009 tier list

[Afro Boy2000]

So I stole this from the Marth boards because they had some interesting discussion about Marth and It had me wondering where you all think Pit will/Should be in the june tier list.

I say he's going to high tier

 

[CorruptFate]

Why do you think he will be moving up? From what I can tell from the Pit's tourney placing thread, not much has changed so this would say that he is should stay right where he is.

 

[MrEh]

Unless you find an AT to stop Gdub and MK, I doubt he's going to move anywhere. XD

 

[Rogue Pit]

Hopefully downward.

 

[Afropony]

Unless you find an AT to stop Gdub and MK, I doubt he's going to move anywhere. XD

Banning equals AT?
ahahaha

tbh i don't really have very much trouble when I play as MK I just use the shield when I need to, use lots of Jabs and Dtilts to get him up into the air and keep Fsmash or Dsmash for the kill.

I think he might be able to sneak above Toon link and others around there but I wouldn't mind if he got moved down 1 place because that would mean I would be allowed to use him in Low tier tournaments (they do them weirdly where I live)

 

[Coffee™]

He'll probably go down or stay where he is. There is no reason for him to move up if you take player placings into consideration. Its good that he's underrated though, less people knowing what he's capable of makes life easier.

He should move up later as he doesn't really have any terribly disadvantaged / impossible match ups but its not going to happen by June.

 

[TsNmi]

In my completely unbiased opinion, and i mean COMPLETELY unbiased, Pit is WAY better than those characters above him; TL, ZSS, IC, DK, etc. In fact, he's actually extremely better than snake and MK. He should have his OWN tier, but don't get me wrong, MK deserves his spot at SS. they should just make SSS for pit.

 

[Riku00]

Not by June

 

[teh_pwns_the]

if any movement at all it will be bairly up or down id say one place or so, nothing major, which im ok with

 

[Samuelson]

Coming from an outside perspective, i don't think Pit is going to go up or down. Pit is one of those characters that everybody kind of...forgets about lollz

 

[Coffee™]

Coming from an outside perspective, i don't think Pit is going to go up or down. Pit is one of those characters that everybody kind of...forgets about lollz

Thats a good thing

 

[yummynbeefy]

well unfortunately not for maniac, jason, 8-bit and me seibrik, afro, and basicly the entire state seems to know pit like a book
and yea at most he will be 16th highest as of now, we dont have tourney results to back it up yet

 

[Recoil]

Personally, I think Pit is going to be high mid / low high at best :|

Hopefully, he moves one or two spots up but nothing too spectacular.

 

[rinoH]

he will probably lowered since less people play him now

 

[Admiral Pit]

Sage not being around will hurt him anymore. It pains me that in my current position, I cant help Pit up

 

[Coffee™]

well unfortunately not for maniac, jason, and me seibrik, afro, and basicly the entire state seems to know pit like a book

Blame it on Danny

 

[Albino Ace]

As some others have mentioned, Pit staying where he is or going down would actually be good, as far as I'm concerned. Lower tier ranking = more "underrated" (spelling? >_<) or forgotten as some say. And that = awesome.

 

[yummynbeefy]

Blame it on Danny

yea i know
we just have to play that much faster, and that much more unpredictable so i guess it will be good for us in the long run

 

[Afro Boy2000]

Why do you think he will be moving up? From what I can tell from the Pit's tourney placing thread, not much has changed so this would say that he is should stay right where he is.

He should move to the bottom of high tier. I say this cause I think Pit's metagame is improving nicely.

 

[Nikenick]

It doesn't matters where he places, just keep having faith in Pit and he'll get up sooner or later.

 

[Phaigne]

He's actually not going to be on the tier list. When SBR makes the new list, they will forget about our angel.

 

[rinoH]

does danny have a smashboards account?

 

[BentoBox]

The tier list will be renamed "Your best odds if you are to face MK: The List." in June.

Pit's not leaving D if he gets hard countered by the best and most popular character in the game.

 

[Coffee™]

does danny have a smashboards account?

No.

Pit's not leaving D if he gets hard countered by the best and most popular character in the game.

He doesn't.

 

[BentoBox]

So you would argue that Pit doesn't lose to MK by 30:70/35:65? I thought that has been the general consensus for the longest time. What changed?

 

[Coffee™]

So you would argue that Pit doesn't lose to MK by 30:70/35:65? I thought that has been the general consensus for the longest time. What changed?

The matchup just isnt that hard. Pit moves are fast enough to punish Mk's whiffed attacks and he kills him at relatively early percentages. The matchup is defintely in MKs favor for a number of reasons but none of them so overwhelming that the matchup deserves to be 65 - 70% in his favor.

 

[MrEh]

The matchup just isnt that hard. Pit moves are fast enough to punish Mk's whiffed attacks and he kills him at relatively early percentages. The matchup is defintely in MKs favor for a number of reasons but none of them so overwhelming that the matchup deserves to be 65 - 70% in his favor.

A 30-70 matchup is pretty much the definition of "hard."

XD

 

[BentoBox]

The matchup just isnt that hard. Pit moves are fast enough to punish Mk's whiffed attacks and he kills him at relatively early percentages. The matchup is defintely in MKs favor for a number of reasons but none of them so overwhelming that the matchup deserves to be 65 - 70% in his favor.

You kill him relatively early with what? B-air and F-smash are your main killers, MK outranges you on both the ground and the air; the problem hence lies in getting in. I won't pretend I know much about Pit but MK is faster and stronger than Pit in every respect.

65:35 urges you to find a more appropriate character to deal with the match-up. Until a Pit actually wins a tournament (meaning, bulldozing through a myriad of MKs), the facts and odds are heavily stacked against him =/.

 

[Phaigne]

I agree with R@vyn on this one. MK isn't as tough as they say. He really is a lot like Pit, just more vicious. He doesn't have anything completely game breaking to pull the advantage towards him that much. Still, definitely whoops us, though. I would say 60:40, not a hard counter.

 

[MrEh]

Pit moves are fast enough to punish Mk's whiffed attacks

The same an be said for MK. Pit's punishing game is sort of moot when MK does it better.

and he kills him at relatively early percentages.

MK can gimp Pit. lol

65:35 urges you to find a more appropriate character to deal with the match-up.

Exactly. Even though it's still winnable, 35-65 is really darn hard. At high levels of play, winning isn't likely.


Even
45-55/50-50/55-45

Disadvantaged
40-60

Borderline hard counter
35-65

Hard counter
30-70/25-75

LOL
20-80/15-85/10-90/5-95

vs Sakurai
0-100


That's just what I think anyways.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Your argument is irrelevant considering many things.

MK is so cheap and broken that many ppl play him. Therefore, he's just too freakin' common, and eventually ppl are going to know how MK plays, and will last longer against them, and as far I see it, the logic follows as:
"The more a person faces different ppl that use the same character with different styles, the more he/she will know how to play against the character.."

MK, being ridiculously popular due to being overpowered and being Sakurai's little demon pet, he's just a common sight. Ppl are going to catch on soon enough, whether they fight good MKs or bad ones. Though it's always better to try fighting good MKs, fighting bad ones has it's benefits, like what kind of spam you might go against and you slowly learn your way around it.

As we fight many different MKs, we try to find some ways that we can counter some of his rotton moves. This actually goes for against any character.

For us Pit players, we still got:
-Mirror Shield against many of MK's recovery options,
-Our great Piviot grab that Can grab MK out of tornado with right timing,
-Ledgecamping of course, though Metagay will either spamnado or rush in towards us.
-Our arrows.... It dont matter if Metagay can use the Nado as a shield, the fact that we have a projectile benefits us.
-Grab release to Dash attack takes good timing for best effect, but is an average way to kill, should MK get to about 145% due to DI, as I have tried on a lv 9 MK.

It doesnt matter if MK can gimp Pit, because ANYONE can, Metagay may do it better than some, but I even think Pit gimps Pit better than Metagay.
MK is still light, and this helps Pit, too, and not many ppl are realizing the obvious.

The problem being is that ppl are going to know how to live longer, or in some cases, slowly overcome Metagay as long as he's popular. This would make lower tier chars seemingly harder to fight due to them being rare to find. Pit being down on that biased tier list may actually help some Pit players as long as the opponents already dont have good experience against him, and I'm not talking about just fighting the spammers that plague this game like MK does.
To get better, one must generally fight spammers to know what kind of spam is out there to counter it, then fight good players of that character to know what potential and tricks those characters have to be aware of them.

That goes back to MK, which i mentioned before is already common. Besides, MK may actually be afraid to do some moves just because of what Mirror Shield can do.
Now I dont know what else to say atm, and I still say that Pit is disadvantages at 40-60 to Metagay. To me, G&W is even worse to Pit than MK is to him. And it isnt always about how well you can gimp opponents, but they do play a good role in matchups.

 

[Coffee™]

You kill him relatively early with what? B-air and F-smash are your main killers, MK outranges you on both the ground and the air; the problem hence lies in getting in. I won't pretend I know much about Pit but MK is faster and stronger than Pit in every respect.

Mk outranges all of the characters that he has a 60:40 adv over or is even with besides like DK, Snake and Bowser. Its hard yeh but not impossible. I think the matchup is for the most part overrated in MKs favor since there arent many good Pit players and at a glance it would seem that MK as a character destroys Pit but as I said I think people have been underrating Pit in the matchup.

65:35 urges you to find a more appropriate character to deal with the match-up. Until a Pit actually wins a tournament (meaning, bulldozing through a myriad of MKs), the facts and odds are heavily stacked against him =/.

I dont think its 65:35, but not quite 60:40 lol. It feels like 61.5:39.5 I think Pit can win a tournament but hes hard pressed to do so since MKs still is a disadvantageous matchup and its not like its a walk in the park to get around him.

Its similar for other characters as well. How often do you see a Marth or Dedede actually winning a tournament? Not very often because most of the time they lose out to MKs, and its only a 60:40 in Mks favor in those matchups but everyone still knows Marth and Dedede are good characters and it is possible to win with them.

 

[KY_Des]

A) There's too much *****ing and moaning about MK in this thread now.

B) MK really isn't all that bad. I find him only a small bit harder than Marth. I'm not saying the matchup ratio needs to be changed, I'm jus stating my personal opinion. So I understand where R@vyn is coming from. Looking at the 2 character that hard counter Pit, MK isn't so bad. G&W.... now that's bad.

 

[Afro Boy2000]

A) There's too much *****ing and moaning about MK in this thread now.

B) MK really isn't all that bad. I find him only a small bit harder than Marth. I'm not saying the matchup ratio needs to be changed, I'm jus stating my personal opinion. So I understand where R@vyn is coming from. Looking at the 2 character that hard counter Pit, MK isn't so bad. G&W.... now that's bad.

Yea. G&W is definately ihis worst matchup.
Olimar is bad too.

 

[Valuno]

I say that MK and G&W are both 65:35 against Pit's favor, but that's just me.

Pit's probably going to move a teensy bit up imo. People are finding characters to use against MK like Diddy Kong, ZSS, Yoshi etc, and these are characters that Pit has fairly decent matchups against. G&W is also decreasing in popularity as he gets countered by many in the top tier. So Pit should be doing a little better at tourney.

The problem is that no one like plays pit, so he's not getting many tourney results
Even so, because of the metagame that's changing around us, Pit should move up a little bit.

 

[kozimoto]

Let pit move down the tier list..... its just more embarrassing when you lose to him

as for his matchups I think that G&W vs Pit is a little overrated

 

[Afropony]

The more you play G&W the easier it is to fight him because he's a fairly simple character and you can usually tell what is about to happen. I have fairly good experience agianst G&W because a friend I play very often mains him.
I would still say G&W is Pit's hardest matchup but maybe that's because I don't have much trouble against MK either.

Also just to let you all know Pit is coming 15th on the Character Rankings List!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

 

[KY_Des]

Play against a really good G&W, then we'll see what you think about that matchup. I played UTD Zac. Did you know after G&W throws out a bair, he can up b and then fastfall another one? And Pit can't do **** about it. But you guys can just wait until you play a good G&W in tournament, then you'll see.

 

[Afro Boy2000]

Play against a really good G&W, then we'll see what you think about that matchup. I played UTD Zac. Did you know after G&W throws out a bair, he can up b and then fastfall another one? And Pit can't do **** about it. But you guys can just wait until you play a good G&W in tournament, then you'll see.

Then again not many characters can do anything about that.
Pit can space g&w out pretty well with WoI and that really helps in this matchup. If we get over this matchup I think Pit would seriously go up in the next tier list.

 

[BentoBox]

Your argument is irrelevant considering many things.

MK is so cheap and broken that many ppl play him. Therefore, he's just too freakin' common, and eventually ppl are going to know how MK plays, and will last longer against them, and as far I see it, the logic follows as:
"The more a person faces different ppl that use the same character with different styles, the more he/she will know how to play against the character.."

And your argument is relevant how? This can apply to pretty much every single character in the game. "We'll figure him out one day, and then he'll be ezpz street. Watch all these characters having a big disadvantage to the winged puffball suddenly go neutral in a few months time" Changing the way you play has little to no effect on MK's inherent capabilities compared to Pit's and any other character for that matter. If, on paper, he does everything you can do, but better, then he WILL retain an advantage. As an extreme example, you can't expect a CF whose played nothing but MKs all his life to suddenly win a tournament because he has gained a ridiculous amount of exp in the matchup. The only thing said player will come to realise is that MK truly shuts down everything that he has.

Peach players thought they went 60-40 with MK last year, and Edreese/Praxis now claim that its a 70:30, simply because the underdog isn't always the one figuring new things out Their metagame is evolving too, perhaps even faster than yours. And your argument also holds no ground as there are no Pits beating great MKs right now, afaik.

You guys should pick up Wario for your hardest match-ups :D You'll get farther in tourneys, I promise.