Pit's new Tier Placement.

[dualseeker]

Pit has moved 5 points down on the tier list.

We all knew that Pit would move down. But, in my opinion, I did not expect him to move down so much.

Anyways,

Discuss ^__^.

I'll add in my own opinion later.

Here's the condensed list:

Condensed Version
S: Meta Knight
A: Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Wario, Marth, Ice Climbers
B: Olimar, Pikachu, King Dedede, Mr. Game & Watch, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus
C: Toon Link, Kirby, Fox, R.O.B., Pit, Peach, Donkey Kong
D: Luigi, Wolf, (Zelda/Sheik), Sonic, Ike, Sheik, Ness, Pokémon Trainer
E: Yoshi, Lucas, Mario, Bowser
F: Captain Falcon, Samus, Jigglypuff, Link, Zelda
G: Ganondorf

Reason for lowering Pit:

Pit
Pit's placement in the previous tier list was mostly formed based on speculation of yet-unrealized potential, but that potential (if it exists...) still has yet to materialize in regions other than Japan, where the stage selection heavily favors him. As such, he is moving down to a place which more closely corresponds to his present abilities in the US, Europe and Australia.

Character movements:

0= Stayed in the same place.
+X= Moved up how many places.
-X= Moved down how many places.

Pit is number 18.

1. MetaKnight= 0
2. Snake= 0
3. Diddy Kong= 0
4. Falco= 0
5. Wario= +2
6. Marth= 0
7. Ice Climbers= -2
8. Olimar +2
9. Pikachu ±0
10. King Dedede -2
11. Mr Game & Watch +1
12. Lucario -1
13. Zero Suit Samus +2
14. Toon Link ±0
15. Kirby +1
16. Fox +4
17. R.O.B. ±0
18. Pit -5
19. Peach ±0
20. Donkey Kong -2
21. Luigi ±0
22. Wolf ±0
23. Zelda/Sheik *new*
24. Sonic +2
25. Ike +5
26. Sheik -2
27. Ness ±0
28. Pokémon Trainer -3
29. Yoshi +2
30. Lucas -1
31. Mario +1
32. Bowser -5
33. Captain Falcon ±0
34. Samus ±0
35. Jigglypuff ±0
36. Link +1
37. Zelda -1
38. Ganondorf ±0

 

[Katana_koden]

As reasonable as it sounds for pits lower tier placing. It fell do to representation. Most people question pit should be higher that has fought a decent pit. He goes almost evenly or better than most of the cast.

I thought the tier list was based on character ability and performance overall.

I thought character rankings was based on tournament results, etc.

Did they confuse the two?

 

[fUddO]

Personally I feel that Pit could be at least 2 spots higher. I think that being so high on the last tier list really hurt him this time around, and right now we're seeing a bit of a backlash.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

As reasonable as it sounds for pits lower tier placing. It fell do to representation. Most people question pit should be higher that has fought a decent pit. He goes almost evenly or better than most of the cast.

I thought the tier list was based on character ability and performance overall.

I thought character rankings was based on tournament results, etc.

Did they confuse the two?

Yes, and they will forever confuse the two! lol. I think it's all a mix-up of experience, pre-concieved notations, and a lot of things. I still don't feel that the tier list will ever accurately place certain characters because of 1st impressions(08').

Personally I feel that Pit could be at least 2 spots higher. I think that being so high on the last tier list really hurt him this time around, and right now we're seeing a bit of a backlash.

I feel that Pit can be even higher than that! However, in the current metagame and with our tournament results, his drop is appropriate.

 

[fUddO]

I feel that Pit can be even higher than that! However, in the current metagame and with our tournament results, his drop is appropriate.

I completely agree. ZSS, TL and Pit all seem like characters who have a lot of potential though, so we're going to need to step it up!

 

[KiraFlax]

This is a perfect place for pit for as of now.

 

[Ayoub]

What Kira said.

And if he didn't get that random +4 but just stayed where he was, he'd only have a -1 and not -5. -5 looks worse, but it's not our fault pit fails. xD

 

[Chuee]

^
Take a trip to Japan.

 

[pitskeyblade]

I feel that 5 spots was a bit much. I expected him to drop, but not that far.

 

[Ayoub]

^
Take a trip to Japan.

Go back to ur boards. xD


Well, he didn't have to go up last time aswell. That's the only reason it looks "much",

 

[Blacknight99923]

I think C tier is all undeveloped metagame atm

Pit should rise

his grab game is definitely comparable to marths

 

[Suyon]

I think Pit is perfectly fine where he is because we can't do anything with Pit if not drop 2 more places. We're so bad that we all don't place well except Koolaid and he sandbags since he doesn't even know how to use him fully. We're just so far behind in everything. I don't know what to do with Pit anymore or I just don't have the intelligence to perform well.
Start hacking and find this so called potential people.

 

[dualseeker]

I have to say that I think Pit fell too far. I did expect him to drop in placement, but I never thought he would drop 5 points. Even though we haven't been placing well in tournaments, and not proving that he's a good character, I think 5 was a bit much. Even without repping him, he clearly has many advantages that set him apart from the rest of the cast. And I believe he is better than most of the other characters in the C tier. I think he should've dropped 2 or 3 points, not 5.

But, even though this placement is low, it does more or less reflect our performance with him in tournaments: A low C. The Pits need to start placing well in tournaments, and we need more people than just Kool Aid doing that.

 

[Nikenick]

yeah pit could do better
but atleast we got koolaid, he's good
yeah pit has potential
but atleast we got koolaid, he's good
yeah pit is underrated
but atleast we got koolaid, he's good
yeah we don't have that much pit players
but atleast we got koolaid, he's good
yeah pit isn't C-tier
but atleast we got koolaid, he's good

 

[Ayoub]

I think Pit is perfectly fine where he is because we can't do anything with Pit if not drop 2 more places. We're so bad that we all don't place well except Koolaid and he sandbags since he doesn't even know how to use him fully. We're just so far behind in everything. I don't know what to do with Pit anymore or I just don't have the intelligence to perform well.
Start hacking and find this so called potential people.

I love your emo-ness.

 

[Suyon]

You should. I state truth. Oh wait. Gaise Pit is better than MK. Y'all just suck. I'd tell u how to beat him but man y'all just scrubs. Step it up foos.
Quit yo *****ing and baws and woes that he went down. Do work.

 

[Ayoub]

I was serious. xD

 

[Suyon]

I know you are. But regardless!

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

Pit should defidently be High Tier. He has so many tools that can put him up there.

 

[Damix91]

Hi,

Can someone explain to me how the tier list works? Is it meant to be based on how well characters do at the average players level or at the the level of the very best in the brawl community?

 

[KiraFlax]

Pit is fine where he is. Its about tourny results that change the tier list, not the tools the character has. So based on tourny placings pit is fine where he is now.

 

[Damix91]

In that case why are there differences between that and the character rankings of tourney results

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

In that case why are there differences between that and the character rankings of tourney results

The character rankings is not 100% accurate because not every tournament is posted and calculated into the list. It has somewhat skewed a lot of mid/low-tier character placings because the results that are good are hard to come by especially since about half of the tournaments that have ever been organized are on the ranking list.

I don't think the USA tier list goes by a formula; it's based on a collective voting system of the BBR.

In general, tier list are based upon: 1)Tournament results, 2)Character quality, 3)Proven results(Top/High Tier), 4)Matchups, 5) Anylasis and Perception of character options

IMO: other features that should affect tier postions: ease of use, comparision of good/bad matchups, and a comparision of strength/weaknesses.

Basically, the Top Tier characters have numerous options in multiple scenarios, while high tier have above-average options, and mid-low tier have the least amount of options. Tournament results GREATLY affect the tier list because they are static and strong foundations where players can say, "hey this character places well this many times. He must be good!" Also, because of how the world is, and most people don't believe it if they don't see it, then tournament results SEVERELY affect the list. It is the most influential factor. That's why Pit is ranked so low. He doesn't have any concrete results where people can put their finger on. The high tier characters have pages and pages of good results, while Pits are lacking.

tl;dr: Don't worry about tiers, but only your skill as a player.

 

[srk99]

The last line of Gadiel_VaStar's paragraph is exactly what we need to do.

 

[Nitrix]

Pit completely deserved that drop. He has potential, but if the potential is never shown then it essentially does not exist.

 

[dualseeker]

I also agree with Gadiel's last line... Nicely put...

I guess it isn't good to worry too much about Tier list placements. Besides, we don't really have a say in it anyway, and the only way to affect it is tournament placements. So, take Gadiel's words to heart. They are filled with truth.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

. Its about tourny results that change the tier list, not the tools the character has.

That is what seems unfair about Tier Lists.

There are so many MK players because, well, MK is MK. So no doubt that MK will always be top tier, he's the most favorited / popular character of choice.

Tier Lists should be based on the Character, not the players that play as them!

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

That is what seems unfair about Tier Lists.

There are so many MK players because, well, MK is MK. So no doubt that MK will always be top tier, he's the most favorited / popular character of choice.

Tier Lists should be based on the Character, not the players that play as them!

MK is top tier because of his tools, not because he' s popular. He could be the least played character, but I'm sure he would still be top tier. You are right in a way because Pit is one of the most least played characters, yet he his tier position is still debated on.

 

[Nitrix]

The reason why Pit is so low is because although he has options and tools, this is like 90% theorycraft since american Pits almost never make a mark on the tournament scene. People don't like information that is subjective when right around the corner they have tournament statistics.

And yes, Metaknight would still be the best if he was not popular. Although his popularity does push his metagame very hard. If some characters had that player base I'd expect rises.


....Dualseeker be using ma colour >_o

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

MK is top tier because of his tools, not because he' s popular. He could be the least played character, but I'm sure he would still be top tier. You are right in a way because Pit is one of the most least played characters, yet he his tier position is still debated on.

So based on this, you are saying it isn't based on tournament results, and it IS based on the character? So how did Pit drop?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

So based on this, you are saying it isn't based on tournament results, and it IS based on the character? So how did Pit drop?

No, the main reason is his tournament results, and the fact that there are no AMAZING American Pits that can provide good examples of Pit's camping game, playstyle, and recovery.

 

[Krystedez]

The tier list isn't good to me because it seems like it's more based on players, rather than the options of the character. When discussing and doing the tier list, they should involve more of the community's discoveries and strategies like above, in order to contribute to a more accurate tier placement.

But if players don't work on that, then I guess in the end it really is, although unfair, reasonable to consider why it IS based on player results.

I'm hoping that I can one day consider Pit a dual main that I can help that cause though.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

The tier list isn't good to me because it seems like it's more based on players, rather than the options of the character. When discussing and doing the tier list, they should involve more of the community's discoveries and strategies like above, in order to contribute to a more accurate tier placement.

But if players don't work on that, then I guess in the end it really is, although unfair, reasonable to consider why it IS based on player results.

This times over 9000!

Krystedez knows whats up

 

[Wingless]

But isn't that what it's supposed to do?
A character can have every tool in the world, but if no one plays him, then it's pointless anyway.
Besides, the tier list changes over time. Having more reps would make us move up again.
Just gotta get with it. -.-

 

[dualseeker]

But isn't that what it's supposed to do?
A character can have every tool in the world, but if no one plays him, then it's pointless anyway.
Besides, the tier list changes over time. Having more reps would make us move up again.
Just gotta get with it. -.-

Basically what Wingless said. Pit will always have an option to take against every character. But, since no one really plays him, no one can show that it's a good quality (it is a good quality, but you get the point).

 

[Krystedez]

That's what Im saying though... It's the community's decision to play characters, but at the same time, the BBR in general and the members of it that vote on these tier lists should feel obligated to explore the options of the character, regardless of how popular they may be.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

That's what Im saying though... It's the community's decision to play characters, but at the same time, the BBR in general and the members of it that vote on these tier lists should feel obligated to explore the options of the character, regardless of how popular they may be.

Once again, this x900000

btw, dualseeker, I love ur sig

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

That's what Im saying though... It's the community's decision to play characters, but at the same time, the BBR in general and the members of it that vote on these tier lists should feel obligated to explore the options of the character, regardless of how popular they may be.

I agree. They were TRIPPING about Wolf in the BBR discussion. They over-exaggerate him getting gayed out by chaingrabs and anything else that is "gay." It really doesn't make sense because Wolf has the tools to avoid them, and it's not really even by many characters. It seems like they've just given up on him, and didn't really examine all of Wolf's qualities. They seemed to just label him without even trying to find what Wolf excels at.

 

[dualseeker]

That's what Im saying though... It's the community's decision to play characters, but at the same time, the BBR in general and the members of it that vote on these tier lists should feel obligated to explore the options of the character, regardless of how popular they may be.

I totally agree with you, that's how it should be. Although, I don't know when, or even "if", the BBR will straighten up and start doing that. They really just look for a character that's doing exceptionally well at the time, and then find a bunch of "facts" that support their decision to raise said character. This will never reflect the characters true capabilities, and the placement will ultimately misrepresent that character, whether their placement is high or low.

Gadiel has a good point, though, and it is exactly what I'm saying. Wolf has a bunch of good qualities, but since the people who main him are in the minority, they think he's a bad character.

Once again, this x900000

btw, dualseeker, I love ur sig

Thank you very much for the compliment ^__^. I love it myself XD.

It wasn't made by me, though, it was made by C Spyker (Also Known As Dinah). He makes great sigs ^__^

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

^^^^
That sig is pretty cool.

Yeah, you have a point dualseeker. The BBR hypes up characters that are doing well @ ONLY in a period of 6 months. The tier list is literally becoming more and more of a popularity contest. It should just be based on the ruleset, matchups, and the ease of use of the character. Then the list would change only if X character found out a way to beat Y character. That would encourage character boards to find ways around a specific strategy or option and it would most likely encourage growth and adaption which in return would produce a better metagame.