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{~Pits Ascension~} - Plans within the Pit Community

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
Pit is perhaps one of the most controversial characters in the game in terms of tier placement and overall potential. There are some who would say he could be a top tier as is the sentiment in Japan where he has more representation. There are others who would argue that his placement today on the American tier list (13th) is too high as it is.

As Pit mains I think we all itch to make an impact using him by applying what we know and discovering more. I think a great number of us would love to send a ripple in the Smash community by having a Pit main place high (not that same haven't done well) or otherwise show he has the tools to overcome his flaws and key matchups.

With that in mind I wanted to start a thread to probe the minds of other Pit players to see what they think needs to be done to cause Pit to ascend. I ask that you reflect on these question and share your thoughts. We still have a lot to learn from each other.


----------{~^-^~}----------


*Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?

*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?

*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?

*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?
 

dualseeker

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
864
Location
Pit: One of the greatest Heroes of our time
I hope my input is helpful. I do want to see Pit improve and hopefully, one day, we'll be able to show people that Pit isn't a bad character. I think this thread was a good idea ^__^.

*Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?
I do think it's possible. I think he could rise to mid B-tier (don't know if it's "high tier", but it is pretty high). One of the main obstacles that stand in his way is none other than MetaKnight >__>. Pit mains should all learn this Match Up, but even with the knowledge, this Match Up will always be a pain to go through. So, MetaKnight will always be an obstacle to us. Unless we discover something that could tip the MU in Pit's favor, Meta will always be a constant obstacle. Another obstacle is Pit's trouble killing. But, this can be overcome by Pit's ability to rack up damage very quickly. Pit's multi-hit moves and good aerial game make it easy to raise the enemies damage percentage to lethal heights. Also, some of Pit's AT's help immensely in racking up damage, such as the Wing Stool Lock. Another little obstacle is Pit's gimpable recovery, but all you need to do is be careful and not get to predictable with your recovery moves.

*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?
I don't really know if other Pit players are really doing anything "wrong". So I can't really say much there. But, I think Pit players should be focusing on what to do in every Match Up, as knowing what to do can be the difference between victory and defeat. I also think that Pit's should practice Pit's AT's, as most are very helpful. I think another key thing to practice is Arrow usage and control. Since Arrows play a key part in Pit's game, mastering them is essential in improving your game. I think another thing to practice is recovery, since Pit is gimpable. And the individual Pit mains should practice on their own play style. Go far with what you do, and be unique ^__^.

*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?
I guess my goals would have to be to keep improving as a Pit player, and always move forward. I want to keep improving on all the aspects of my playstyle with Pit, and help improve on Pit's Metagame if I can. I also want to help the Pit community as much as possible as well. I also want to improve on AT usage, and learning how to perform the more technical aspects of Pit, such as the Wing Stool Lock. And I've recently learned how to WoI Platform Cancel consecutively. I also want to prove to others that Pit isn't a bad character, and is capable of placing high in a tournament. We need to show that even though Pit has a few bad Match Ups, there are ways of overcoming them.

*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?
Well, I think the Pit Community is heading on the right track ^__^. We're finally working on our character Match Up thread, which I'm sure will be a big help in improving Pit's MetaGame. And I'm glad that we're researching on new things, and that more new discoveries are being introduced. I think our main goal should be to improve Pit's metagame, and improve his image in the competitive scene. But I'm sure that's our goal already. But, I would like the flaming on Arrow Looping, and new suggestions to stop >__>. I think most people are afraid to post stuff here because it keeps getting flamed. We need to encourage new discoveries and ideas, not discourage them.

Well, those are my thoughts anyways. I hope they help ^__^. I think this is a great thread though, I would also like to see what other Pit mainers have to say.
 

Nitrix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
867
Location
London, Ontario
Kudos to you my friend! This is a much needed thread :). Now onto the questions!

*Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?
I do believe it is possible for Pit to be a high-tier character. The only real thing in his way is MK. Pit players need to really dive into their character, find out exactly what works and what doesn't and enforce what works. Right now its like we apply a general style to every matchup and try to avoid key moves and that just isn't good enough.

Pit is like Sonic to me; he has no broken moves that completely sway matchups. He needs to work hard and overcome people with skill and creativity. The boon of this is that there are barely any unwinnable matchups, and the downside is that winning consistently requires a high degree of skill. We just need to work a bit harder, and then we can have our own Brood or X ^_~


*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?
Some Pit's need to get more creative with their gameplay and arrows. Some Pits just stand there and shoot uncharged straight arrows, and Pit can do more than that! Predicting jumps and airdodges can make them much more annoying. Even shooting arrows that curve to where they would jump can be effective since it forces groundplay. My point is that they're hella versatile and shouldn't be used one-dimensionally.

I think as a whole we just need to become more skillfull as well. Also if we could actually figure out some ways to actually use Mirror Shield that would be really awesome! In terms of outside of matches, we just need to build a stronger community and recruit more Pits ;)

*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?
My great personal goal as a Pit player is to STOP ROLLING. I feel like as I got better with Pit I invested all my effort into camping and intercepting approaches. Thats all good, but rolls get really predictable when you depend on them and they are just poor bandages that hide your real weaknessess. Thus I am trying to only roll when it is absololutely essential. I'd also love to place in a tourny with Pit, that would make me so proud ^_^


My other goal is to help out these boards, since Pit isn't even fully developed as a character yet.


*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?
For one thing we need hardcore chaingrab information. We also need some real depth onto the usuage of his moves like Angel Ring and Mirror Shield. I think a research thread would be a great idea.

We also need some real reasons why Pit is great. There are tons of haters who ask this over and over....:dizzy:

In terms of what the Pit boards are doing RIGHT, we are actually slowly building up the spirit of this forum. Including a photo thread was great, and hopefully we can keep the activitiy in the social. Furthermore, the matchup thread is still operating so thats solid as well. At least we are taking steps int he right direction and I think thats great.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?

Yes, I strongly believe that Pit is a high tier character. The obstacles that stand in the way is that the Pit community as a whole does not have a barrage of talented players like the MK community. We have a lot of "noob" player base, but not much of a "competitive" player base. I just feel that we all have a lot of growth left as players, and that is one of the main reasons why Pit does not place well. It's not Pit placing well, but the player base that isn't good. I don't think we need to discover any more ATs, but we need to improve as players, abuse arrows/grabs A LOT more. Pit's arrows are what make him so good, and I like to think of them as an extension of his range. His close-quarter combat is not the greatest, but his arrows have so much range that he doesn't need to approach if he doesn't have to.

*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?

I feel that we tend to play aggressively, and that we tend not to play safe enough. Arrows are what make Pit one of the best characters. I just think that we shouldn't focus on the ATs like arrow looping, and I think we are getting a lot better in that aspect. Instead, Pit players should focus on the basics of high-level play(zoning w/ arrows, spacing, reading, predicting, waiting for opportunities, things like that).

*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?

Some of my personal goals as a player include:

*Top 4 @ a national event using Pit as my main character within 1 year.
*Become one of the top 15 players in the US
*Show why Pit is a top 10 character by placing consistantly high in tournaments
^^^^
Those can be done by:
*Contiously focusing on improving as a player, learning more about the game, and becoming more knowledgable about the metagame for ALL characters
*Get better @ reading, predicting, & playing smartly in matches
*Learn how to ledgecamp even more by mixing up Pit's main options(double arrow offstage, nair/fair/bair ledgejump, gliding under the stage
*Adapt faster to new opponents and situations
*Try harder to understand the opponent's mind/what their thinking
*Learn how to use arrows better and safely on-stage.

What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?

The Pit community should focus on improving themselves as players, because Pit has what it takes to win national events(imo). We need to focus on his arrow game, and then finding the best punishments in X situations. Another reason why Pit is so controversial is that he doesn't have a "trump" card move in his possession. MK has tornado; Snake has strong tilts and grenades; G&W has #9; Peach has bomb-ombs, saturn, and beamsword. Of course this does not win the match, but Pit has to work harder for his wins IMO since his moves aren't that damaging, and they don't tend to "string" into each other like MK's or Peach's. I still think he's top tier solely because of his arrows, and he does have mirror shield, but it's only truly effective vs Mid tier and below.

We should strive to reflect the Marth or MK community because the Marth boards have a lot of helpful threads. I think we have a ton of helpful threads, but most are lost away in 08, 09 because most of the good Pits that we have either retired, quit Pit, or don't play Brawl anymore. We still can search them, and I have tried to revive some of the older threads w/ good information.
 

Admiral Pit

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*Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?

I personally think this is possible, but for this to happen, Pit players need to improve in the rankings. Luckily, some of the characters close to Pit on the tier list (like G&W) have been slacking a lot recently. If we can improve quickly before the other characters may return back, we'll be able to reach that high tier placement. We are one away from it, but we have been lacking a bit ourselves. A higher quantity of some smart Pits isn't bad either, but quantity at this point is important.

*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?

I don't think some take some of the opportunities they have, like the CG or F-throw > F-smash thing if they got that chance. I may not have seen recent Pit activity, but I wonder if Pit players are more defensive, offensive, or a variety of the two, while at the same time, avoiding the fancy stuff, and go mainly in the basics. I don't know much about current Pit player playstyles, but yea.

*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?

Because I am unable to go offline myself, the only thing I could do is continue to contribute and help out with stuff on these boards hopefully, though I can be discouraged sometimes. At the same time, I simply want to maintain a decent level when using Pit (Still restricted to online), in hopes that maybe I can show some that Pit has some potential with the right knowledge.

*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?

Many people say matchups are useless, but to me, they're not. If we knew many of the matchups, we'd have a better chance against any character that we face, both common and uncommon as long as we get the right information and details. So for one, we need to work on the matchups, especially since we haven't discussed certain characters yet in a long time.
Next, similar to matchups, we need to know what we could do to our opponents' characters. I don't think many Pit players actually try a CG against a Snake, or other character vulnerable to it, or even that F-throw to stutter-step F-smash when the opportunity is given.
Some Pit players have even lacked the basics said said before, and that's what we need. Some may be too aggressive and lacking defense. We'll probably discuss this later. Overall, we need to revise the basics and matchups, and find ways to exploit other character weaknesses using the best of our character's ability. Idk anymore, but I hope we can collaborate more.
 

Ryos4

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
1,404
Location
Hawaii
*Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?
I think it may be possible. Though in my honest opinion. I feel that he doesn't really have what it takes as a character. Many of the top and high tiers as said before have one or more of the the following, gimmick, lots of true combos, or some sort of great killing move that is easily accessible. Pit doesn't really have any of those beyond his arrow and mirror shield.

*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?
I think the main downfall of most Pit players, are just either being too aggressive and/or too flashy. Though i do admit i am also at fault of being too aggressive. Flashiness can be good sometimes, but only reliable and useful. Some Pit players are also just too easy to read and predict.

*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?
I don't really have any personal goals. I really cant see myself as a competitive player. I really don't have the time and i lack the will to do whatever it takes to win. I usually just play for the fun of it. Also for the most part there just isn't tournaments big enough in Hawaii to actually make a name for yourself.

*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?
What I think people should focus on most is basically improving their overall game play. Spacing, reading, and all that good stuff. Though getting better at the technical aspects could help as well. Teching the stage spikes on Pit and working on good SDI will help greatly with anyone. Also learning to save Pit's killing moves and play without them well so that Pit will be able to kill earlier.

I find playing the "low tier" characters can help train you on being a better player, as they need to play smarter to win and cant muscle their way through people. So basically just picking up a Low tier secondary will generally help improve Pit IMO.

Though what could also help the community as a whole would be to find out as many true combos as possible.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I definitely think Pit is capable of being one of the best characters in the game. He just seems to have so much potential, and I honestly don't understand why we don't have at least one Pit player dominating tournaments.
 

link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
I definitely think Pit is capable of being one of the best characters in the game. He just seems to have so much potential, and I honestly don't understand why we don't have at least one Pit player dominating tournaments.
part of it has to deal with most of the players view of pit, and folks who main him, heck just one look at the "always the pit mains" meme should give you an idea of how folks feel about pit mains....i'ma not gonna call out any names, but a few certain pit mains, due to the way they have acted have given the rest of them a bad image.



it also has alot to do with the fact that, aside from pit having a projectile, metaknight can LITERALLY do every thing pit can, but better, he's pretty much like pit on steroids, why bother using pit when you have mk right there?


then of course you have the few folks remaining that main pit, that are pretty much either purely wifi only, or have "retired" from brawl as a whole(i'm not gonna lie....i fall into that catagory...)
 

Admiral Pit

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part of it has to deal with most of the players view of pit, and folks who main him, heck just one look at the "always the pit mains" meme should give you an idea of how folks feel about pit mains....i'ma not gonna call out any names, but a few certain pit mains, due to the way they have acted have given the rest of them a bad image.
First off, I know you intentionally put this to put the blame on me on purpose, but I ain't gonna argue.
And again, matchups would help some Pit players out, especially against matchups they may not be familiar with.


it also has alot to do with the fact that, aside from pit having a projectile, metaknight can LITERALLY do every thing pit can, but better, he's pretty much like pit on steroids, why bother using pit when you have mk right there?
For one, while Pit does have a projectile like you said, MK can't CG, while Pit can on some characters via F-throws, and Pit can reflect, something else MK can't do. And plus, don't expect EVERYONE to resort to/rely on lame old MK. Some players are still true to their mains, or at least for now.


then of course you have the few folks remaining that main pit, that are pretty much either purely wifi only, or have "retired" from brawl as a whole(i'm not gonna lie....i fall into that catagory...)
Do remember that not everyone can to go to offline stuff, for it can include parents restricting em, lack of money or time, or they just can't, period, while at the same time, some give up or retire because of certain influences, not just because of the overuse of tiers; it could pertain to life too.
Regardless, if we actually cooperated more and think about some ideas, as well as working on matchups, the basics to playing Pit instead of heavy reliability on fancy stuff, we could improve like that.

Also, we could/should actually take a few lessons after watching Japanese Pit playstyles, since they have a lot more patience than our "usually aggressive" Pit players. It could also explains why Earth, one of Japan's Pits, placed higher than Koolaid at APEX. Even if some of us don't like Japanese Pit players (well, I like them), it doesn't hurt to learn a bit from them, since we're gonna need all the help we can get if we want to improve.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

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I agree w/ Admiral Pit. I don't know why people say he's messed up Pit's image, lol, that's impossible. All he's done was help out the best he knew, especially bringing up our first matchup discussions.

I talked to a top player that really believes in Pit, and he said that we should copy Masashi's playstyle, and then tweek it for our own individual playstyle. He said that Masashi's playstyle is what we should base our game off of because he uses lots of arrows, grabs, and has great technical skill.
 

dualseeker

Smash Ace
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Jun 29, 2009
Messages
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Pit: One of the greatest Heroes of our time
I also agree with everything admiral Pit says. It's true we shouldn't really use the Flashy techiniques too much. And I also agree completely that we need to learn things about Japanese playstyle. Sometimes playing more patiently is a great way to figure out your opponent. And I'm sure it'll help against some of the more aggressive players out there. We do need to co-operate a bit better as well.
 

link2702

Smash Champion
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
2,778
the thing is it doesn't matter why the folks can't make it to offline tournaments, the fact is, is that pit mains AREN'T making it. A big part of a characters posistion on the Tier list is determined by tournament placings, something that pit mains, much like yoshi mains, aren't producing, it doesn't matter how good we think our character is, if no one is out there winning anything with em, it doesn't matter.



as far as MK goes, even though MK can't cg, thats not that big of a deal cuz pits cgs usually only work at low damage, on mostly heavy characters.

so pits cgs are basicly there to help build up some damage, but they're nothing like Falcos, ddds, or the ICs



metaknight has no problems building up damage on heavy characters either, but with so many other, and infact more effective ways..

Mk shuts down pit completly, that is another problem...and seeing as the broken masked bat of helll is the most common character in all tournaments....there is usually one somewhere there that wil shut down a pit main, once again, he can do everything we can, but better, aside from a projectile and those cgs, which really aren't that big of a deal.



TBH i don't think pit is going anywhere unless two things happen;

MK gets banned.


and

reps at tournaments, wifi rep doesn't mean crap as far as his tier list position is concerned, if he ain't placing in any offline tournaments, he's not gonna be going anywhere on the tier list.


it doesn't matter what your reason for not making it to offline tournaments is, the point is is that you aren't making it, so once again, unless the pit mains can find a way to start making tournaments more often, its not gonna help his tier list position.
 

Admiral Pit

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Well duh, we know Pit players are lacking tourney attendance, including me (well, i have my reasons, and again, I'm stuck on wifi), plus we just aren't prepared to deal with most of the things. If the Pit players knew their matchups, the basics (again, no fancy stuff), while at the same time, learning a bit from Japanese playstyles, we'd have a better chance.

So again, it isn't just lacking tourneys, we need to make our few Pit players that are going to them better. Remember the Japanese Pit out-placing our own Pit at APEX, and I keep mentioning this, as well as learning the basics and matchups because they are important.

And though I wish MK would be banned, it isn't going to happen. A thing we should be thankful for that G&W, one of Pit's worst matchups, is not a common opponent, but at the same time, it can be bad, because of um, well let's put it this way:

Pit players are not that common, and many players don't have much Pit experience. In our position, G&W isn't common, so we may not have much experience against him. Same goes for other characters that are not a common sight. We have to prepare for anything.

As for Pit to reach high tier, as I said before somewhere, a couple of characters above Pit on the list have been lacking offline results themselves. *points at G&W* If we can make a huge impact quickly, we can
get through just slightly.

So in our current situation, with not many Pit players, the best we can do is improve with the knowledge that we need, and I say this a lot, but it still has to be done:
Learning basics, matchups, strategies against any character that we may go against, and collaboration on getting the information we need to improve.. It may take a lot of work, but I think we can do it if we all put some effort into it.
 

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
Sorry I haven't been partaking in my own thread here. I started it before I went on a vacation as a way to give people ample time to respond, and and think its been great so far.

So here are some points/trends that I've gathered.


-------------------------~(^-^)~---------------------------​


Tier:

- Most Pit players feel he could be higher on the Tier list if it wasn't for a bad matchup with Metaknight and lack of something obviously abusive.



Problems:

*Pits biggest problem is Metaknight
*Pit players tend to be too aggressive
*Pit players try too hard to use situational ("flashy") advanced techniques.
*When matchups are dealt with, they are often generalized and don't deal with the specifics well enough.
*Very few Pit mains regularly participate in Offline tournaments
*Of those Pit mains who do, very few are high ranking or otherwise outstanding players.
*May of Pits own attributes in terms of things like his follow ups from non AT arrows and Mirror Shield/Wings of Icarus properties haven't been fully explored/tested.




My Response:

First about participation. Honestly we can't force more people to participate as Pit. The only way Pit is going to get more representation at this point is if an outstanding player emerges and does well. How do we do that? We need to work on the basics and Key bad Matchups to a precise degree.

Who here has seen earth play? If you haven't, look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsUWpZKfIg&feature=search

His pit is patient, abusing things like short hopped retreating pivot arrows. Infact I would describe his game as retreating and responding to approach attempts.

It's commonly accepted the pit is a defense character. However pit players either go straight to the offensive, which is not his strength, or hold ones ground on the defense. Pit is a very mobile character with a lot of tools to mess with spacing such as Wings, Sheild, and Angelic step. I think abusing your opponents spacing with these tools is key as spacing in general is perhaps the most important fundemental in brawl. Ruining your opponents seems wise and sly.

I would want to invest in a style like that personally. That's my goal, and maybe to actually start playing in some real tourneys. though that might have to wait till after college.

The other thing I would like to see right away is a new thread dedicated to beating Metaknight as our worst matchup and essential hurdle to overcome/equal. It sounds sad to dedicate a thread to it but I think it needs to be done. However I mean more then the generalized strategies that have been done before. I think A direct comparison of everything metaknight is capabile of doing versus how pit can effectively respond is needed. We need to know what garenteed responses (if any) we have to his attacks based on shield, perfect shield, whiff, mirror sheild, etc... With some luck we can discover something key. Otherwise at the very least, it will allow us to play safe in the matchup becuase we'll know what we can and cannot do. This technically knowledge will help bridge the gap and increase the importance of pure player skill. That's what we want right?


Thoughts?
 

Wingless

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Houston
This is an interesting concept.

Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?

But I think that we have so few good Pit mains because people give up on him too quickly. You main Pit - start doing fairly well, and then get beat across the stage by every half-decent MK that comes our way. Just like everyone else before me, that’s our biggest issue. Almost everyone who’s practiced for five or ten minutes has a decent MK. -/saltsaltsalty-
Plus, you talk to everyone about what to do vs. MK and you get the ‘pick up a secondary’ card. It’s always very difficult to go about beating a MetaKnight. It’s possible for Pit to be high on the Tier list, but we HAVE to tackle the MK matchup. No one wants to do it, because it’s all been done before, but it just needs done.

What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?

Pit is flashy. We have stuff. But I noticed…especially with myself… : (
I get aggressive when I panic. It’s good to remember Pit’s skills, which usually require standing back and just waiting for your chance. People grumble all day about Pit’s arrows, but they are a necessity. Also, most Pit mains have really predictable arrows. It’s good to switch it up - hold the arrows longer and try and predict their jumps and spot dodges. Angle your arrows up or down slightly always…or sometimes, especially when fighting someone with a reflector! Hit the head or feet, that way it doesn’t come back and hit you the face. I don’t focus so much on arrow looping. It just wastes time.

Another thing! Pit’s kill moves… (…what kill moves?)
It would be neat to have a thread or something evaluating Pit’s kill percentages on each move. I notice a bunch of Pits spam Fsmash, Bair, … all the really strong moves, so they’re exhausted whenever you NEED TO GET A KILL. Things like arrows, regular A, Angel Ring…most of our moves are Multi-hit to build up damage! Use those, and then get the kill…but if we get something so we KNOW for sure at what percents our kills moves go on which characters, it would be helpful. I think, anyway….

What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?

-I’m going to start doing better at Tourneys. I’ve only recently started attending, but I’m getting better at them already. There are still a few matchups that throw me.... This is my number one priority.
-Of course, learning the MK matchup is a must. I want to be able to go against MK and have a chance, instead of it being one-sided or luck.
-I am also trying to stop rolling so much. It’s fast, but it’s predictable and highly punishable. I’m getting better at this too…but there has to be a balance between the two.
-I want to help the Pit boards. Really, just lurking makes me feel like I’m not learning all I can.

What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be

MATCHUPS. No match up is not worth discussing! Half of my personal problem is that I am not familiar with all the characters I meet in tournaments. Fox, Falco, Marth, MK, even weird ones like Yoshi are becoming more common. We would have a much better chance in all of this if we just learned the basics of the matchups.

Hmmmm…I’m tired of people getting gimped too. I mean, it happens - because we’re Pit mains. But it shouldn’t happen nearly as often as it does. Most Pit’s can glide ALL DAY, but we can always better ourselves with our recoveries, especially since some characters will actually chase us offstage.
 

Nitrix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
867
Location
London, Ontario
People still actually get gimped? If its MK, then okay it is a possibility. Maybe we need a thread on recovering?


PS: I will update the matchup thread tonight.
 

Tetsion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
330
More and More I see there being no excuse to being gimped in WoI. Only another pit besides Mk/Kirby/Falco. Should be gimping you and even then it should be rare. Only another Pit and MK should be messing with you (oh and rob)

The only way pits should die is if they fail to get back on stage(as in from ledge) or being knocked out, thats just my personal opinion. If you are up high use wings of icarus to drop down low fast. if u are recovering up.. go to other side.. *shrug* I will add my thoughts here.. one day.
 

dualseeker

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
864
Location
Pit: One of the greatest Heroes of our time
The Falco I play is actually brave enough to drop down and shoot me while I was recovering from under the stage (on Wi-Fi too) XD. It surprised me the first few times, because the other Falco's I play don't do that. But, I've learned to avoid it. I just mentioned Falco because he can gimp us when we recover under the stage too. Marth can't do that (but he does have a bit of an easier time gimping us).
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
[COLOR="Green" said:
*Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?

pretty much everything thats been said MK needs to be handled hes the only thing.and i think pits need to either get their reading skills and mindgames better or not rely on planking cuz here in florida ppl know how to handle it realllly well.

*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match? again work on basics,reading skills, and improve those gimmicks each of us have that make ppl go "WTF i did not see that coming nice move dude"

*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others? my goal as a pit player is to beat the central florida crew with my pit i wreck most snakes as i use to be a snake main i even do reallly good against marths now thanks to my friends serious training i know this is gonna sound stupid but i have a harder time dealing with Peach than meta knight...Kyon is so fking beast so my goal is to learn the peach and mk matchup MAKE MY PIT MUCH MORE UNIQUE TO ME and place well in tournaments

*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?[/COLOR]
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE MK ONLY DISCUSSION THREAD that is needed i also believe that ppl should share some of their gimmicks not as to have then stolen but i find myself watching pits and noticing these gimmicks that inspire me give me ideas and i end up coming up with my own stuff
so ya mk thread gimmicks thread/mindgames

oh ya i know this isnt the thread for this but im new and this is my first pit thread time so ima do it anyways. Hi im Kuro~ i use to main snake im a Florida smasher i go to tourneys regularly i JUST picked up pit but within a day i learned all his AT's i picked up pit cuz i only used him to fool around cuz i liked the flashy stuff ^^ but my friend told me he like my pit alot more than my snake and said i had serious potential so i picked him up and i love pit now :D

I use three characters Pit is my absolute main and the one i work the hardest on
Dedede is my secondary cuz i have an amazing eye for grab opportunities its my specialty
Sheik is my other second...mainly because shes a fking ninja man thats awesome xD

P.S. I WOULD LOOOOVE TO FIGHT ANY OF YOU ON WIFI I REALLY NEED SOME INSPIRATION NOW so plz PM me if u wouldnt mind playing some time


Allisbrawl account Willjust


On a side note i remembered som1 mentioning not many ppl know how to fight pit and thats the truth ive actually beat very good meta-knight mains simply because they dont know pit while i know mk pretty well so i think we should use this to our advantage ppl WE NEED TO LEARN THE MU'S cuz since no1 is learning the pit mu while we learn theirs to put it simply knowledge is power...
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
oh ya one more thing i need to work on and i dont know why i do this sometimes when im fightning sometimes if things are going normal i seem to get into a trance/auto mode which makes me be punished and mindgamed easier...been working on fixing that lol as soon as im behind tho i outpredict u and kill u fast which is stupid >.<

i believe its cuz of impatience which is easy to fix if i try 2 xD

Edit: i just need to not be reckless thats all it is
 

Katana_koden

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
609
Location
Some Where In Metro Atlanta
oh ya one more thing i need to work on and i dont know why i do this sometimes when im fightning sometimes if things are going normal i seem to get into a trance/auto mode which makes me be punished and mindgamed easier...been working on fixing that lol as soon as im behind tho i outpredict u and kill u fast which is stupid >.<

i believe its cuz of impatience which is easy to fix if i try 2 xD

Edit: i just need to not be reckless thats all it is
Its reaction. Which gets punished when someone looks for it.

-Rolling when cornered on the edge.
-Defensive block or dodge when your land behind you.
-Kill fishing after your opponent kills you.
-Immediate aerial dodges, especially vs MK.

I don't know all of them...
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
Its reaction. Which gets punished when someone looks for it.

-Rolling when cornered on the edge.
-Defensive block or dodge when your land behind you.
-Kill fishing after your opponent kills you.
-Immediate aerial dodges, especially vs MK.

I don't know all of them...
I dont think its that problem was i went away for a month or so and was fighting alot of computers so i got so use to just playing against something mindless instead of ppl who wait for stuff and so on so my playstyle got fked over by those habits i developed durring that month ive been doing alot of wifi to get rid of those habits i created during that month like spotdodging for no reason so ya your right it was habits bad habits i had built ive learned most of the time for me the best OoS options are Wing lunge retreating nair or Dairing behind your opponent instead of bein on defensive like against computers...lol
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
2,066
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
GadielVaStar
Sorry for bumping this up, but I think this a really good thread where we can all write down our new goals for the next year and Apex. I just looked at my old goals, and I think I was too ambitious.

A really great article on motivation/goal-setting: http://zenhabits.net/get-off-your-butt-16-ways-to-get-motivated-when-youre-in-a-slump/

Please don't close this yet because it's an old thread. I think we still can have uses out of this thread.
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
Wow...reading my old posts is SOOOOOOO WERID!!!!!

My first pit post ever...I was so psyched to be here XD...i was such a scrub back then...ahh reminiscence....<3
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
1. pit is already in my opinion high tier. however, if it weren't for certain obstacles, he would be top 5 material. the main obstacle is the lgl. so many characters have no real way to effectively prevent us from scrooging and planking. the ones that do gotta be precise as balls except metaknight, who is the other obstacle but that's almost gone. pit players need to learn how to play brawl like a pro. the only ones here who ever actually place really well (with pit) are koolaid, esca, kira, luckay, and fyre. ptzr is like right below them and the rest of us try all we want aren't cutting it. we a gnes, a vinnie, a ally, just somebody who is a literal top player to use this character before we even come close to hoping to having this character acknowledged in america.

2. im one of the only pits who tries to average 35 ledge grabs per match whether planking is at all necessary or not. none of the other characters abuse his broken ledge play. i mean way i figure, if diddy gets to use bananas, snake get to use tilts, wario get to fart and run, olimar gets to pivot grab, falco gets to camp and run, if all these characters get to do this broken **** to us us, then we get to plank and scrooge them. that's our broken *** trait that makes the differance between high and top tier character.
however, i do feel that pit's need to focus on learning his onstage game better and learn how to actually read people, how to go in and be aggro when it's necessary, not because you want to. but in tournament you've got to switch between broken ledge play and solid on stage game because if you don't abuse everything you have to win, then you are unnecessarily hindering yourself.

3.
my goal is to place top 10 in tournament, to beat all of my pr at some point in bracket, to be acknowledged as a good player and reliable source of information about my character and then everything else in this game, and to be the best pit or at least top 3.

4. the pit community should focus on getting better. we should learn how to not be bad players out side our higher level players, who also need to do better outside of koolaid and kiraflax, the only consistent very high placing pits in america anymore. and while i hope we all accomplish this, i wish a top level player would use pit in tournament and get him more recognition at a national and place top 5 as opposed to to constant 17th and under (earth 17 gen1&2, kira 25 gen2, esca 17 whobo3). that would get people to realize how good this character is
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
2,066
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
GadielVaStar
1. pit is already in my opinion high tier. however, if it weren't for certain obstacles, he would be top 5 material. the main obstacle is the lgl. so many characters have no real way to effectively prevent us from scrooging and planking. the ones that do gotta be precise as balls except metaknight, who is the other obstacle but that's almost gone. pit players need to learn how to play brawl like a pro. the only ones here who ever actually place really well (with pit) are koolaid, esca, kira, luckay, and fyre. ptzr is like right below them and the rest of us try all we want aren't cutting it. we a gnes, a vinnie, a ally, just somebody who is a literal top player to use this character before we even come close to hoping to having this character acknowledged in america.

2. im one of the only pits who tries to average 35 ledge grabs per match whether planking is at all necessary or not. none of the other characters abuse his broken ledge play. i mean way i figure, if diddy gets to use bananas, snake get to use tilts, wario get to fart and run, olimar gets to pivot grab, falco gets to camp and run, if all these characters get to do this broken **** to us us, then we get to plank and scrooge them. that's our broken *** trait that makes the differance between high and top tier character.
however, i do feel that pit's need to focus on learning his onstage game better and learn how to actually read people, how to go in and be aggro when it's necessary, not because you want to. but in tournament you've got to switch between broken ledge play and solid on stage game because if you don't abuse everything you have to win, then you are unnecessarily hindering yourself.

3.
my goal is to place top 10 in tournament, to beat all of my pr at some point in bracket, to be acknowledged as a good player and reliable source of information about my character and then everything else in this game, and to be the best pit or at least top 3.

4. the pit community should focus on getting better. we should learn how to not be bad players out side our higher level players, who also need to do better outside of koolaid and kiraflax, the only consistent very high placing pits in america anymore. and while i hope we all accomplish this, i wish a top level player would use pit in tournament and get him more recognition at a national and place top 5 as opposed to to constant 17th and under (earth 17 gen1&2, kira 25 gen2, esca 17 whobo3). that would get people to realize how good this character is
Maharba, I think you are right about mixing up Pit's ledge game with his on stage game. It really is important. I was able to get 2 stocked, but also 2 stock my G&W friend today using those tactics. Pit's ledge/scourging game is really good. The only thing is that it takes a lot of practice to not get hit. You have to play really careful because Pit is vulnerable by the ledge.

You have to mix-it up a lot on the ledge though because most characters can punish Pit by hitting you as soon as you let go of the ledge or when your invincibility frames finish.

I think well spaced arrows from the ledge mixed with gliding back and forth and mixing it up between going to the other side works well. Also, if an opponent tries to attack while on the ledge, a Fair(using Control+A--it's waay faster than C-stick trust me) usually works. The only issue I haven't figured out is getting back on stage when the opponent camps the ledge too far for any of your attacks to reach, and jumps to avoid the arrows. I need a strategy against that.
 

Damix91

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
272
Location
London, UK
Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?

I mean his tier position isn't particularly important- it doesn't exactly affect anything ,though I guess recognition would be nice. I think Pit easily has the capabilities to sit comfortably in B tier. At the moment I feel polarized characters dominate Brawl. For instance, Snake has such a strong stage control yet his aerial mobility and air game is rather limited. I feel as people get better at the game in years to come more polarized characters will drop slightly and more adaptable characters will do better.

As a character the greatest issues Pit will face is dealing with shield pressure- his grab range is short and his OOS USmash is SDI-able. He also has trouble killing. I talking more about kill setups like banana throw -> DSmash or SHL -> BDACUS, Pits moves kill at a decent percent imo.
While I have a different ruleset in the UK, I have a few problems with our ruleset and even more with the US one. In terms of stages, I don't understand why we have liberal stagelists. Stages like Halberd or Yoshi's Island which have random factors, I understand that they're not extremely game changing most of the time, but I don't understand why any competitive player would want random elements to affect a game where matches are typically only 3 games. Also I don't understand why stages like Castle Siege which have walkoff edges are allowed or PS1 with the infinites against walls.

We don't have LGL here (which i need to abuse more) but I can see how that could hold you back seeing as UAir can beat out virtually anything spaced correctly.


*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?

I've been trying to play a lot of different fighting games to improve my overall principles. I was complaining about shield pressure so I've working on interrupting people's approaches with defensive mixups like retreating Dair and on FH rising Nair to test Dash shield approaches and got my inspiration from counterhit characters in tekken. Its not particularly innovative, but it is for me so i guess i'm saying to be innovative at times, the metagame can't advance otherwise.


*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?

I plan first to win some M and M ( my local weekly tourney) and look at placing higher in some monthlies. Quite a lot of the UK trash talk PIt's viability so I'd like to show them the truth.


*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?

Get the matchup threads going again as that has died and get some real contribution. Also a thread about more specific situations being discussed in great detail would be good such as pressuring people on platforms or how to pressure people trying to get on the stage.
 

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
Wow, my old thread got necrod. Glad to see it got people thinking once again!

*Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?

I think with a metaknight free metagame, it will quickly become evident the Pit holds a similar power level to Fox/Peach/TL, and therefore will round out the bottom of High Tier.

*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?

I feel that a focus on Pit's ground game is more important then his Air. Pit has a solid air game to be sure, but it only gets abused if you get them off the ground. With that logic, i've focus more on being precise on the ground with my spacing and mix ups.


*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?


I just mentioned me trying to refocus on Pit's ground game a bit (since I personally think I stick to the air too much.) Also I'm looking forward to finally playing in a legit tourney this December. Although I do feel like I'm going to be one of the oldest people there, hahah...

*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?

The Pit Community goals should focus on what the new metagame becomes post Apex, and be sure to find GARENTEED setups and counters to the characters that form the new top tier, probably starting with Wario since I think most Pits would agree without metaknight, he is our new terrabad matchup.
 

Loz8ichimaru

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
150
Location
London, England
Do you think it's possible for Pit to become a High Tier Character? What obstacles stand in the way? What does Pit Players need to do/learn/discover to overcome these obstacles?

I mean his tier position isn't particularly important- it doesn't exactly affect anything ,though I guess recognition would be nice. I think Pit easily has the capabilities to sit comfortably in B tier. At the moment I feel polarized characters dominate Brawl. For instance, Snake has such a strong stage control yet his aerial mobility and air game is rather limited. I feel as people get better at the game in years to come more polarized characters will drop slightly and more adaptable characters will do better.

As a character the greatest issues Pit will face is dealing with shield pressure- his grab range is short and his OOS USmash is SDI-able. He also has trouble killing. I talking more about kill setups like banana throw -> DSmash or SHL -> BDACUS, Pits moves kill at a decent percent imo.
While I have a different ruleset in the UK, I have a few problems with our ruleset and even more with the US one. In terms of stages, I don't understand why we have liberal stagelists. Stages like Halberd or Yoshi's Island which have random factors, I understand that they're not extremely game changing most of the time, but I don't understand why any competitive player would want random elements to affect a game where matches are typically only 3 games. Also I don't understand why stages like Castle Siege which have walkoff edges are allowed or PS1 with the infinites against walls.

We don't have LGL here (which i need to abuse more) but I can see how that could hold you back seeing as UAir can beat out virtually anything spaced correctly.


*What do you feel Pit players do wrong? Where do you think Pit players need to focus there efforts in and out of a match?

I've been trying to play a lot of different fighting games to improve my overall principles. I was complaining about shield pressure so I've working on interrupting people's approaches with defensive mixups like retreating Dair and on FH rising Nair to test Dash shield approaches and got my inspiration from counterhit characters in tekken. Its not particularly innovative, but it is for me so i guess i'm saying to be innovative at times, the metagame can't advance otherwise.


*What are your personal goals as a Pit player? What do you seek to improve in yourself or prove to others?

I plan first to win some M and M ( my local weekly tourney) and look at placing higher in some monthlies. Quite a lot of the UK trash talk PIt's viability so I'd like to show them the truth.


*What do you think the Pit Community should focus on? What should we try to learn about Pit/Other Characters and what should are goals be?

Get the matchup threads going again as that has died and get some real contribution. Also a thread about more specific situations being discussed in great detail would be good such as pressuring people on platforms or how to pressure people trying to get on the stage.
Hey, is that you Legacy? :)

Pit's grab range gets on my nerves, I see no reason why it should be so limited, at least his pivot and boost pivot grab range are pretty good though.

I gotta start trying that Upsmash OoS, I never do it and it seems like a good mixup.

I've been working on using WOI more in gameplay, as an option when landing or just for general surprise factor. Even though it's easily one of Pits worst moves I'll be attempting to incorporate Angel Ring more into gameplay, mostly as an edgeguard or when I'm facing the other way (surprise factor again), can be a good move for refreshing your other moves, especially on Castle Siege since you can do it on those statues forever if you're opponent gives you the time.

I'm fine with the stages even though some I find more annoying that others. Of the Counterpicks I only REALLY dislike PS1, due to walls and other obstables & being unable to fly under it. Castle Siege is bad versus Snake since he has less areas where he can be forced to recover offstage and his multitude of explosives are somewhat camouflaged by the arena. The stagelist is much better in the UK, Brinstar and especially Rainbow Cruise are just bothersome, Pictochat too.

Without MK, Pit would be high tier, definitely. But in Europe MK isn't due to get banned, so Pit's likely to stay in mid tier, in fact a European Brawl tier list was just recently made, in which Pit is in 'D' tier.

Gotta get in as much practice as possible for OoC!

Wow, my old thread got necrod. Glad to see it got people thinking once again!
Could be a very useful thread, I know I need as much help as possible to help go from a good Pit to a fearsome Pit!
 
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