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Pit vs. Lucas problems

Ecko911

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
1
I'm having trouble approaching lucas to be able to do anything effective. Every smash he does seems to have very strong knockback. Each dash or smash has such and oddly long range that attempting to get close just gets me trapped right in the middle of another smash.

I try to play as intelligently as possible. i'm pretty good and focusing arrows and using bair fairly quickly.

Its incredibly annoying with matchups against lucas because i see some of the technical skill in the moves i do and it appears as thogh all lucas does is one consistent smash over and over. I've even tried occassional arrow spam and inching my way forward.. but the forward smash hitbox seems so far in front and a bit above of him even if i jump over his head my feet still hit the bottom of the smash..
:mad:
Sorry, just extremely frustrating. Anyone have any tips for getting around the smash spam or at least any tips for pit vs. lucas matchups.
 

NESSBOUNDER

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,167
Location
somewhere sunny
If it's just his forward smash you're having trouble with, you could always try rolling behind him, but then you have to start watching out for his up and down smashes, both of which are pretty darn scary.

His Fsmash isn't as fast as you think. I don't see why you can't approach him with Ftilts, Fsmash and even running attacks to get through that thing.
 

ComboTurtle

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
1,866
Location
Australia
you shouldnt be having too many problems with this match up, spam arrows and sh neutrals into whatever u want... once u get him in the air uairs are your best friend
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Lucas was always a Pain in the neck for me... but I've grown to counter his moves during these 4 days with the game.
Use the Mirror shield to reflect PK fire, but u need great reflexes.
When Lucas does that U-Smash thing, he has some lag so try to throw him off the stage and then use F-air or B-air to knock him out.
His range is pretty difficult, but try using arrows.
I disliked Lucas anyways...
Show me a video of your Pit fighting a Lucas and I'll figure out a way to stop him. In the meantime, use the info I've given you here.
 

WKx7x

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
48
I main with Pit, and my friend OWNS with Ness and Lucas, it gives me real trouble. the best strategy I've had so far is to just hit him again and again with arrows and side B to rack up damage, then finish him off as quick as you can. Also, keep moving, seriously, or else you're just a sitting duck for one of his attacks.
 

solesoul

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
125
Location
North Carolina
I'm beginning to think that Lucas is a nasty counterpick for Pit, but he isn't the worst, or even unbeatable.
On the ground, I immediately throw up my mirror shield, one because the chances are good that they will lead the game with a projectile or two, or expect you to and lead with their Down-B or dodge your arrows. It also serves the purpose of drawing them into attack range if they aren't already moving. Once in range, I like to F-tilt, or use one of the neutral a comboes. I use Side B sparingly, because if you hold it too long or mis-space it, you WILL be smashed, and it will hurt.

As for the air, its even worse because Lucas has nasty aerials. His neutral aerial racks up damage, Faerial does the same as well, and combos into itself. Back-aerial is slower, but if used correctly can be a spike and is to be watched out for. Its also difficult to attack a grounded lucas from the air because his UpA is rapetastic, and kills at very low percents. But if we're both in the air, this is also one of the few times I'll pull out a few arrows, both to keep him away and to get some quick damage in.

Also, DO NOT ABUSE UPB WHEN RECOVERING. Any good Lucas who is competent with his projectiles or has no problem chasing you off the side will punish you for it. Instead, use a few arrows before you're too low and glide back to the stage. The glide is superior in this sense because you retain jumps and Up-B, and it can be attacked out of.
 

-dMT-

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
1,076
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Lucas indeed seems like a hard match-up at first glance, and I played a very good one yesterday. His range annoyed me for a while, and his downB gave me reason to cease my arrow spam, but after a while it wasn't hard at all. Like many cases in Brawl, your going to have to change your style depending on the opponent.

Being the average Pit player I'm sure your used to shooting a lot of arrows, and using uair quite frequently to juggle people above you. Well In this case Lucas can absorb your arrows AND his dair seems to out prioritize Pit's uair more often than not. So clearly this hints at a change in strategy.

When you take the time and think carefully, Pit also has some annoying advantages against Lucas. You have TWO reflectors, one which can attack while refelcting, and the other comes out quick. Implementing reflectors to your approach, with caution however, will prove to be useful.

The most annoying thing you can do to the Lucas player, and how you can easily go about getting most of your kills, is sending him off the stage far enough - using fairs for the most part to distance him - so as to force him to use his upB to recover. You can then easily judge his trajectory, then proceed to jump off and reflect him similar to Mario's cape, using a well-timed Mirror Shield. He will turn the other way and plunge to his death, regardless of damage %. Works well and Lucas and Ness are among the easier character's to catch with this deflection.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
This new information might not help, but the mirror shield will block Lucas' PK Freeze. If you're close to him while PK Freeze is close to both of you, Use the Mirror shield and Lucas will be the one to get frozen and not you. This is not likely since Human players arent that stupid to continue controlling PK freeze if you're close to them.
 

Galeon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
617
Location
Miami, Florida
well if pk freeze is the issue, I don't think the character matchup is why you're losing.

I main Lucas and there are a couple things that get to me. The guy I go against arrow spams, for one thing. I know most of you are thinking how that's dumb since I'll just absorb but he moves forward with each one. Even if I absorb one or two, he can mix up whether he'll throw another arrow or attack as he gets close enough. Basically, I'm saying that mid-ranged arrows give you a large advantage even if I get like 8-16% back. Most Lucas's will flinch when you get close and drop their magnet (watch out, it has like no ending lag so don't be nubbish and dash attack. you might even die trying since the magnet has knockback). I got a harsh lesson in this when I dropped my magnet and got hit by a point blank arrow to grab/f-smash.

Next, forward-b is kind of nasty against Lucas. The thing is, you have to space it. If you do it too close so you're still advancing when you get to the Lucas, he can smash di behind you and that's your ***. If you space it so you stop in front of him, he's forced to 1) Block it, in which case he can't shieldgrab out of it because Lucas leans forward. He can't move without getting hit so he's forced to take a couple hits and di out. 2) Take the hit and di out. You obviously have to not make this your most common approach because its punishable if the Lucas anticipates it and counter spaces but it wrecks stationary Lucas's and can make them rethink predictable SH pk fires.

Don't just let them tether recovery easily. When pressing A after he rope snakes, Lucas closes the gap and sweetspots the ledge. But you can hit him as he's doing this. The Pit I go against d-tilts me when I rope snake. It catches me just before I get invincibility (I've never seen this happen to Olimar so maybe Lucas just has a weird tether).

Mess with the Up-B. Don't just let him do it. Forward-air, back-air, if he has no jump and is too far to tether, he's gonna do it. Just make sure to space so you don't get forward air-ed by a smart Lucas. You have enough time to wait for him to start it and move in to punish it.

This next part is referring to when Lucas is on the ground at like 100% and you just died. Don't go for blatant back airs when you neeeed that kill, especially when you're shffl'ing it in a very unsafe shieldgrabbable way. it's pretty predictable and is just gonna get you smashed out of shield. Alot of this game is not getting super aggressive when you need to tie up the game. You have a safe character so don't be nubbish and f-smash/bair too close to the ground praying it'll hit when he's clearly camping. You will be rope snaked/smashed out of shield. Be patient and stay close.

Main thing: Don't let good Lucases approach. A good Lucas on the aggressive is going to be veeeery hard to deal with. You outrange him, make him understand that. If he's pk firing and you're blocking it, you need to be thinking about how to get out of that situation. If he's nairing and you're blocking it, you need to think about why you got put in that situation and not let it happen again because if your shield is getting naired, you will be taking a hit in the next .5-3 seconds.

While maintaining the pace, also make sure not to think that since you have a sword, you outprioritize Lucas. You will be ashamed as he easily plows through your attacks. His jab clanks with your f-smash, his smashes kill you early and his f-air (look for this move, its a straight kick and is laggy unless done at the top of his short hop. If he does it low, shield grab it. If he does it high, run in and punish it) plows through anything he predicts. Don't attack from below him, you will get d-aired. Instead, bait it and punish it. Most Lucases are very confident in their dair and general priority. Random Note: Do not attack a standing Lucas on a platform from below. His u-smash and d-smash will hit you before your uair hits him and you will probably die from it.

Personally, I think Lucas should win this match but I lose consistently to my friend's Pit. Good luck.
 
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