Pillaring is worthless

[FalseFalco]

And anyone who calls spike shine spike shine pillaring shouldn't play Falco.

I'm not saying I've never used the term, I'm saying it sounds ******** and is not actually a good move.

By calling it pillaring it sounds like some godly technique right up there with Lcancelling and Wavedashing, and noobs get confused. Honestly, if you "pillar" for more than 3 or 4 hits then you're probably playing someone who sucks, and there are many more interesting ways to beat someone who can't shieldgrab.

I've been seeing "lol how du I pillarz" topics since the beginning of time, and it's getting ****ing olddd.

VARIETY PLEASE.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

but pillaring is good. it makes people roll. that's when they're screwed =)

 

[Zeron]

D'oh. Guess I shouldn't be playing Falco.

/wrist

 

[technomancer]

Techno erase gogogo, post one made me think of the vert combos that are easy to DI

 

[James Sparrow]

I don't pillar much, I just don't like to, and think there are more efficient ways of harassing.

btw i think this is thread #1337 of this sub forum.

 

[SCOTU]

Pillaring is completely worthless. It's a winmore. If your pillar is helping you, it means that they're not good enough for you to need to pillar to win. It's easy to get out of, it's easy to punish with many characters (i.e. grabs, usmashes, up-bs). Some people do think it's a godly tactic. Because someone figured out it's "difficult" to shield grab. Someone else interprets that as "impossible to shield grab", and someone else interprets that as "impossible to escape". But in actuality, it's not that great, and there are safer things to do. The people who believe otherwise haven't seen that thread on "Pillaring - What it is and how to do it" which explains (in later posts - many by me) why pillaring is a no good technique.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Yeah guys pillaring is horrible. Thats why I do it, and I never get far with it.

..... Pillaring is definitely a useful technique.

The only person that I have seen grab out of good pillaring is Drephen, and M2K. They can perfectly time it consistently.

And if you L-cancel perfectly it is not shield-grabbable. Because if you do a Dair -> L-cancel -> Shine they can't grab you. Unless they grab you in the air of your dair. Watch me vs M2K in the regional Crews, he only grabbed me in the dair, not in the shine. And another time it is shield-grabbable is when they powershield your aerial. Because after the dair then you shine, it only takes one frame to shine and a couple to grab.

 

[Zeron]

^I take back what I said and now listen to Shiz. :D

 

[FalseFalco]

Yeah guys pillaring is horrible. Thats why I do it, and I never get far with it.

..... Pillaring is definitely a useful technique.

The only person that I have seen grab out of good pillaring is Drephen, and M2K. They can perfectly time it consistently.

And if you L-cancel perfectly it is not shield-grabbable. Because if you do a Dair -> L-cancel -> Shine they can't grab you. Unless they grab you in the air of your dair. Watch me vs M2K in the regional Crews, he only grabbed me in the dair, not in the shine. And another time it is shield-grabbable is when they powershield your aerial. Because after the dair then you shine, it only takes one frame to shine and a couple to grab.

Pillaring is a useful technique. I'm not saying good Falcos don't do it, I'm saying its WAYYYY overrated. The topic title is a bit strong; I admit.

Pillaring is also shieldgrabbable. If you downair at the peak of your jump you get grabbed between the downair and the shine. If you downair at later part of your jump you lcancel into shine and cant be grabbed, but since you're downairing at the end of your jump, the beginning of your jump is vulnerable.

All you're doing Shiz is dairing later, and thus making the dair->shine a combo. After about 3 hits the timing should be obvious to the person shielding.

If you have enough mindgames to cross up your opponent with different timings then good for you, but its much easier for a shielder to punish your timing.

 

[Ryan-K]

I prefer crossing up or grabbing after the shine if I do dair their shield, but I almost never repeat dairs afterward.

Characters like Link can't shieldgrab it though afaik.

 

[Velox]

Pillaring is useless.

Against anyone good, they will immediatly roll, spot dodge, and (lol)/ or jump right after the first shine.

If you go right into the pillaring action you will miss out on the opportunity to predict how they're going to escape it and punish.

Therefore, it's useless. Look for them to jump/spot dodge/ or (most likely) roll away. Nobody lets themselves get pillared and nobody stupidly tries to grab you out of it.

In fact the whole mindlessly running around with Falco and hitting low on the shields into a shine isn't what makes Falco good. If someone's winning with more or less just that, then it's something else they're doing even if they themselves don't realize it.

 

[Banks]

i think i grabbed shiz out of a pillar once. lewl...>_>

 

[saberhof]

its just another move to add to your game play, its how Falco mains get better, by learning everything there is to learn and then get better. i find no wrong in pillaring, only if your playing M2k or other really good players, but when will that happen with most of us?..>_>

 

[DaShizWiz]

Then do the dair later to make it not shieldgrabbable.

 

[technomancer]

Shiz is too good, it's important that you mix up your pillar because god, even I can grab you. Watch forward vs. Lovo at some recent tourney on FoD, he pillars hard but doesn't just repeat shine Dair shine Dair, he mixes in some shls and waveshines as well and just molests his shield. I'm still a big fan of fox-style dair, shine, JC grab, it trips people up alot and they may miss the DI on an upthrow for free combos. Also just watch any shiz video and see him mix in the double shines, nairs, etc while he molests people.

 

[Sephiroth27]

If you're good enough at it you can wear down an opponents shield, forcing them to try and grab or dodge. If they try and grab the reflector will get them first. Its an absolutely fantastic defense mechanism.

 

[Zozefup]

Pillaring is insane. Without it Falco is bottom tier. Your sig is awesome sephiroth!

But I play Samus, so I just UpB out of shield :D. But even with it my UpB, pillaring still owns me. Pillaring IS more importain than wavedashing. It the most importain tech with Falco.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I think he trying to say people who run around and TRY to pillar are ********. Pillaring is only useful if done correctly.

 

[B-Will]

But I play Samus, so I just UpB out of shield :D. But even with it my UpB, pillaring still owns me. Pillaring IS more importain than wavedashing. It the most importain tech with Falco.

No...it's far from the most important tech of falco's. btw, you are doing something wrong if you can't up b out of shield on a pillaring falco. You are probably not doing it fast enough.

Anyways, I think pillaring is nice. Maybe a little overrated sure, but there are two reasons I do it:

1) You can tech chase out of it. Most people who don't try to shieldgrab have no choice but to roll away. My favorite thing to do is to shl out of a pillar to tech chase and go from there.
2) It's so fun to do lol.

 

[SCOTU]

Shiz is too good, it's important that you mix up your pillar because god, even I can grab you. Watch forward vs. Lovo at some recent tourney on FoD, he pillars hard but doesn't just repeat shine Dair shine Dair, he mixes in some shls and waveshines as well and just molests his shield. I'm still a big fan of fox-style dair, shine, JC grab, it trips people up alot and they may miss the DI on an upthrow for free combos. Also just watch any shiz video and see him mix in the double shines, nairs, etc while he molests people.

Qutoed for extreme truth. If you're going to pillar at all, you've got to mix it up with other things. there is nothing in the game that's an effective pressure if you do the same thing over and over again (almost by definition). The pillar is always sheildgrabbable. no matter what you do. better shield pressure involves waveshines, shls, and grabs.

Pillaring is NOT as important as wavedashing/ waveshining. Not even close to his most important technique. It is NOT about you being good at it making it good, it is them being BAD at dealing with it that makes it good. Pillaring should never own a samus/ bowser/ GaW/ Marth (not so much as the others) / (maybe even) Peach, because they all have excellent Up-b's out of shield/ Samus/ bowser/ Gaw are the best since Samus & bowsers are invincible until the hitbox connects (leaving only 1-2 frames of vulnerability, where a shieldgrab leaves 6), and G&W becuase his hits on frame 1 (with the same vulnerability as samus/ bowser). Marth's Up-b out of shield can very easily kill a pillaring falco, since they'll be fast falling.

That is all for the moment.

 

[technomancer]

Ok no, what we're saying is that pillaring isn't good because it's BEYOND easy to escape, but it can also cause opponent to slip up and get molested later in the stock because he has a small shield or rolls inappropriately or something, or they try to grab and get shined. Also if you make it the one thing you learn to do with Falco, then you will forever suck at smash.

If you do it wrong you can get grabbed fairly easily which is bad, so it's pretty meh reward-medium risky at high level play.

 

[Dogysamich]

so, this thread so far has been.


Pillaring is useless, because you can get shieldgrabbed (for doing it wrong/doing it too long).


But if you do pillaring like you're supposed to, you'll either get the dumb people to shield forever, or the smart people to put themselves in some long animation.


Check.


So where's the worthless part?

I will admit, yes; scrub talk about pillaring as if it's a god send falco technique, which it's not. But how is it useless. I'm failing to see this when it's already been mentioned how it works in this topic.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Pillaring is useless.

Against anyone good, they will immediatly roll, spot dodge, and (lol)/ or jump right after the first shine.

If you go right into the pillaring action you will miss out on the opportunity to predict how they're going to escape it and punish.

Therefore, it's useless. Look for them to jump/spot dodge/ or (most likely) roll away. Nobody lets themselves get pillared and nobody stupidly tries to grab you out of it.

In fact the whole mindlessly running around with Falco and hitting low on the shields into a shine isn't what makes Falco good. If someone's winning with more or less just that, then it's something else they're doing even if they themselves don't realize it.

And after they roll/spot dodge/jump? You're missing the point.

Pillaring repeatedly without purpose is dumb. Pillaring to force your opponent's hand is where it's at. You limit their options to rolling or jumping out of shield, or try for a well-timed shield grab. Any of the evasive maneuvers by the opponent is punishable by Falco, who has basically no lag from dair and can easily chase rolls. Pressure a shielding opponent, force them to act, and react, that's it. Opponents with fast UpBs or ones that get invincibility frames at the beginning (Marth, Samus, Bowser) are the only ones with surefire ways to disable pillaring.

It is not overrated, its uses are just misunderstood by about 80% of Falco players, as are many of the most dominant techniques in smash (SHL, waveshine, Float Cancelling, Needle Canceling, WoP, etc.)

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

No...it's far from the most important tech of falco's. btw, you are doing something wrong if you can't up b out of shield on a pillaring falco. You are probably not doing it fast enough.

Anyways, I think pillaring is nice. Maybe a little overrated sure, but there are two reasons I do it:

1) You can tech chase out of it. Most people who don't try to shieldgrab have no choice but to roll away. My favorite thing to do is to shl out of a pillar to tech chase and go from there.
2) It's so fun to do lol.

yea i somehow have this same habit. i'm not sure where i got the SHL roll chase thing but it has made the difference for me against lots of ppl (ss, lunin, dbr etc...). yay for B-will! xD

i think this thread is saying that pillaring on it's own or doing it incorrectly is very... punishable which is true; however, pillaring when done correctly and used to create openings is just about one of falco's best things.

 

[Zozefup]

btw, you are doing something wrong if you can't up b out of shield on a pillaring falco. You are probably not doing it fast enough.

I've beaten Dope, mathos, Viperboy, and other insanely good falcos before. I know how to UpB out of sheild. But I still lose the majority, because if I don't sheild the Pillar in time, I take like 50%!!

And for all of you who say pillaring isn't the most importain tech.. watch viperboy. He wins tournaments, hes insanely good, and ALL he does is pillar. No mind games, rarely any lasers, ALL he does is come at you and pillar! Thats it. But hes so freakin tech theres nothing you can do about it.

You CAN'T sheild grab him, I don't care who you are. Some insanely good sheiks can, like drephen and M2K. But I've watched tons of his games against the best players in the world, no one can punish it. (No one can punish DaShizWiz either, but he uses mindgames too, viperboy doesn't need them, he just pillars.)

Samus can UpB out of sheild. But if you don't sheild it in time.. you die. If you miss the UpB.. you die. Marth has no range on his UpB, watch good players, no one even trys that. Samus with every other character. UpB isn't that good with anyone besides Hugs.

If you Jump out of sheild, you get Daired... then you die. If you spot dodge, you still get Daired... then you die. If you Roll, he follows you and you get Daired.. then you die.

If he starts the pillar, you WILL die. All you can do is spacing camp him, and not let him start the pillar, but even then, it's very hard.

 

[DaShizWiz]

I agree with what Zhu and Zoep say.

But the only thing as a Falco that I've figured out that works great against perfectly l-canceled dair shines, is by being falco, waiting for the shine, and right after they shine you catch them in their jump of the dair, and then quickly JC shine out of shield, then start comboing them from there.


Edit: I think everyone here has summed up what good pillaring is. Mixing it up with other stuff and using it for tech follows/chases. Like at FC Regional Crew batlle, I had PC cornered up in a wall, and the most effective thing for me to do is shine nair shine nair, because dair wouldn't have much effect when they're cornered and are hit by it because it can be teched easier, the nair has much better knockback. So just switch up your pillaring based on certain situations and most falcos should be fine.

 

[Jem.]

Pillaring is good.. >_>. It isnt like some god-mustly be able to perfect kind of thing.
If you want to really mind game them, keep waveshining through their shield then grab or something XD.

But yes, it is overrated, and too many people think they're good when they say spike shine spike shine combo.

 

[Ryusiodo]

I sort of asked this in another thread but is Pillar necessary for a good Falco? Can a Falco just live on combos, laser tricks(ledge hop lasers, SHL camping, SHL approaches) and his spike?

 

[Winston]

I sort of asked this in another thread but is Pillar necessary for a good Falco? Can a Falco just live on combos, laser tricks(ledge hop lasers, SHL camping, SHL approaches) and his spike?

haven't you read what they've been posting?

it's a useful technique. You can't become a top falco without it, but you can't rely on it.

The rest depends on your definition of "good".

 

[Adi]

Edit: I think everyone here has summed up what good pillaring is. Mixing it up with other stuff and using it for tech follows/chases. Like at FC Regional Crew batlle, I had PC cornered up in a wall, and the most effective thing for me to do is shine nair shine nair, because dair wouldn't have much effect when they're cornered and are hit by it because it can be teched easier, the nair has much better knockback. So just switch up your pillaring based on certain situations and most falcos should be fine.

I was wondering why you did that. Thanks for explaining it to me, it makes a lot of sense now.

Also yes mixing up your pillar is great for pillaring but personally I just find grabbing mid pillar to be a quick and easy way to get them out of their shield. You can't catch them off their roll but they'll be more hesistant to shield allowing you to get easier hits in later on.

 

[Driz]

ne1 who says pillaring is useless doesn't knwow how to play Falco. If your good at pillaring you will be able to read the oppenents moves while they try to escape and be able to follow a roll. Pillaring is not the only technique one should use but it is a good way to pressure a sheild grabber espacially if your timings good like Shiz!

 

[Zankoku]

Drephen shieldgrabs pillaring Falcos. Peach, Samus, Marth, and Bowser can Up+B out of shield to break a pillar. It is not a particularly strong technique.

 

[Driz]

its not to kill but to break shields and puts the opponent in a defensive position

 

[mathos]

Yes it *may* break a shield, assuming your opponent doesn't know how to roll. I agree with the defensive stance but if you get into the habit of pillaring you tend to stay in the same spot or a place where you can't reach them when they roll so it puts you into a vunerable position.

Pillaring is a decent tacitc, but just like any character you can't be a one-trick pony.

 

[Zozefup]

you can't be a one-trick pony.

Yes you can. Watch Viperboy.

 

[Maverick's C0CK]

pillaring is very useful you noobs.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Pillaring useful.

1st of all when people are under pressure they get nervous and dont do the right things all the time. If someones shield is low you can pillar and break it.

Look at it this way.

IUf they **** up that theyre shield gone

If they roll you predict them and do whatever you want, including starting a 0-death.

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

Then do the dair later to make it not shieldgrabbable.

your mindgames are ahead of there time. FCD Regional Crews: South vs East Coast pt 2... OMG!

 

[Wireframe]

Pillering is really useful and should be an integral part of any falco's game. check out the second stock the red falco takes.

He sure doesn't think it's worthless

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ufDiwmXDaFQ

 

[TheManaLord]

Pillaring has never been good.