Pikachu's Tier Placement

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

I was putting Fox top 10 before the patch, but with Diddy dropping (our worst match IMO) I could see him breaking into the top 5. I honestly don't see what people see in Yoshi...Fox might snipe that spot.

EDIT: forget what I said, I'm going back to my OG, I'm sick of aimlessly soul searching when the answer's right in front of me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy never dropped.

 

[Megamang]

@ Roll-Spamming-Peasant
Well, Fox can rack damage up very, very frighteningly quickly without being touched-so that balances things out

Maybe you should practice reading comprehension before being such a negative, cancerous person.

Edit: I know this is aggressive but I think he posts like this pretty frequently so I'll be surprised if I get warned.

Anyways, either you totally can't understand what roll spamming peasant was saying, or you typed fox instead of pikachu. Either way, stop calling people boy, I did that when I was 13.

 

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

Maybe you should practice reading comprehension before being such a negative, cancerous person.

Edit: I know this is aggressive but I think he posts like this pretty frequently so I'll be surprised if I get warned.

Anyways, either you totally can't understand what roll spamming peasant was saying, or you typed fox instead of pikachu. Either way, stop calling people boy, I did that when I was 13.

I appreciate you sticking up for me, but I wasn't offended. That was his most tame post in this thing, and I've read this thread from start to finish...

 

[isaiah :)]

Yoshi is amazing, just takes a good player, IMO fox is at the very least top 10, but he has amazing rushdown tactics, however it takes a skilled player with good reads to actually play his mind games. now putting him top 5? not 100% sure, i think he is definitely a great counter pick for some of the best characters, but i guess only tournaments can really decide how good he really is.

p.s. based on character data alone, fox is top 10 - speed/recovery/combo-game.

 

[Megamang]

I appreciate you sticking up for me, but I wasn't offended. That was his most tame post in this thing, and I've read this thread from start to finish...

I also have read the entire thread, and I agree his towards you wasn't the most ridiculous. He just thinks he is edgy when in fact he is a detriment to the community; I wish someone would curtail it, and I often wonder how many new and potentially progressive players have not posted due to fear of being ridiculed. I wanted him to realize perhaps that he shouldn't pounce on people's simple mistakes since he also makes them


Anyways, back on topic... I feel both fox and pika have the same problem, lack of guaranteed kills. (Most characters outside the top few have this problem, FWIW). Pika makes up for this with great damage racking, a great projectile, and strong possible gimps and edgeguarding. Fox makes up for it with decent jab set ups on some characters, and his always potent running-usmash. Both characters are more likely to be hurting due to rage than benefitting, as they die before the true heavies. I think pika has a slight advantage in forcing mistakes due to tjolt's superiority over the laser (much more mobile, damaging, and often leads to easy grabs which put us in a strong advantage state), but his weight is worse than fox's (although fox is taking more damage to juggles than pika, offsetting this).

I think their relative placement will come down to how they handle the top tiers, and I think pika wins this. Perhaps this is more a statement of my region, but I believe that good MUs against Shiek/Diddy/ZSS/CF/Luigi is more important than the rest of the cast combined, and I think pika has a leg up on those.

 

[isaiah :)]

I also have read the entire thread, and I agree his towards you wasn't the most ridiculous. He just thinks he is edgy when in fact he is a detriment to the community; I wish someone would curtail it, and I often wonder how many new and potentially progressive players have not posted due to fear of being ridiculed. I wanted him to realize perhaps that he shouldn't pounce on people's simple mistakes since he also makes them


Anyways, back on topic... I feel both fox and pika have the same problem, lack of guaranteed kills. (Most characters outside the top few have this problem, FWIW). Pika makes up for this with great damage racking, a great projectile, and strong possible gimps and edgeguarding. Fox makes up for it with decent jab set ups on some characters, and his always potent running-usmash. Both characters are more likely to be hurting due to rage than benefitting, as they die before the true heavies. I think pika has a slight advantage in forcing mistakes due to tjolt's superiority over the laser (much more mobile, damaging, and often leads to easy grabs which put us in a strong advantage state), but his weight is worse than fox's (although fox is taking more damage to juggles than pika, offsetting this).

I think their relative placement will come down to how they handle the top tiers, and I think pika wins this. Perhaps this is more a statement of my region, but I believe that good MUs against Shiek/Diddy/ZSS/CF/Luigi is more important than the rest of the cast combined, and I think pika has a leg up on those.

I agree with you about the heavies however, heavies get extreme combo by pika and most games turn in to pika trying its best to not get touched while having a strong combo game. and pikachu has close to even MU with all the top tier

 

[Angiance]

Maybe you should practice reading comprehension before being such a negative, cancerous person.

Edit: I know this is aggressive but I think he posts like this pretty frequently so I'll be surprised if I get warned.

Anyways, either you totally can't understand what roll spamming peasant was saying, or you typed fox instead of pikachu. Either way, stop calling people boy, I did that when I was 13.

Excuse me, sir, I was making a legitmate statement regarding Fox-I haven't a fairy why you felt I was being insulting, but if you would so kindly...get off of me

 

[isaiah :)]

Excuse me, sir, I was making a legitmate statement regarding Fox-I haven't a fairy why you felt I was being insulting, but if you would so kindly...get off of me

its okay, you're just a little abrasive at first site, so no one knows how to respond to some of your statements at first. give people time to adjust to you as they should give you time to adjust to them on here.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I also have read the entire thread, and I agree his towards you wasn't the most ridiculous. He just thinks he is edgy when in fact he is a detriment to the community; I wish someone would curtail it, and I often wonder how many new and potentially progressive players have not posted due to fear of being ridiculed. I wanted him to realize perhaps that he shouldn't pounce on people's simple mistakes since he also makes them


Anyways, back on topic... I feel both fox and pika have the same problem, lack of guaranteed kills. (Most characters outside the top few have this problem, FWIW). Pika makes up for this with great damage racking, a great projectile, and strong possible gimps and edgeguarding. Fox makes up for it with decent jab set ups on some characters, and his always potent running-usmash. Both characters are more likely to be hurting due to rage than benefitting, as they die before the true heavies. I think pika has a slight advantage in forcing mistakes due to tjolt's superiority over the laser (much more mobile, damaging, and often leads to easy grabs which put us in a strong advantage state), but his weight is worse than fox's (although fox is taking more damage to juggles than pika, offsetting this).

I think their relative placement will come down to how they handle the top tiers, and I think pika wins this. Perhaps this is more a statement of my region, but I believe that good MUs against Shiek/Diddy/ZSS/CF/Luigi is more important than the rest of the cast combined, and I think pika has a leg up on those.

I'm surprised that so far, I haven't read pikachus overall low damage output, like isn't his most damaging Ariel neutral ariel? And it only does like 8% while his Uair, a good juggling tool, deals a mediocre 5?
I mean even if he has a great combo game, wouldn't that in a way become frustrating somewhat?

 

[Angiance]

@ Dee-SmashinBoss
Well, Pikachu can attack at an a speed similar to Meta Knight in Brawl (which, Meta Knight had a low damage output in Brawl just like Sm4sh Pika)

But D.Air deals a solid 12% regardless of what point the attack connects

But um-Pikachu can get about a clean 30-45% per clean hit, so his low damage output is logical really

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

@ Dee-SmashinBoss
Well, Pikachu can attack at an a speed similar to Meta Knight in Brawl (which, Meta Knight had a low damage output in Brawl just like Sm4sh Pika)

But D.Air deals a solid 12% regardless of what point the attack connects

But um-Pikachu can get about a clean 30-45% per clean hit, so his low damage output is logical really

You mean from his combos? If you say so, though I imagine it would mostly be possible on FFers or large heavy weights who are clearly most susceptible to get comboed that much

 

[Angiance]

Well no, I am considering pressure, comboes, true comboes, resets and etc.

When Pikachu lands a clean hit, he can make A LOT off of it-i mean a LOOOOOOOT

For fatboyz, getting hit is a likely stock loss honestly

 

[isaiah :)]

I'm surprised that so far, I haven't read pikachus overall low damage output, like isn't his most damaging Ariel neutral ariel? And it only does like 8% while his Uair, a good juggling tool, deals a mediocre 5?
I mean even if he has a great combo game, wouldn't that in a way become frustrating somewhat?

no it wouldn't be frustrating, pikachu has many many combo set ups and amazing gimp ability so damage output wouldn't be that big of an issue, for example, when i play heavy characters (Gannon) i run a lot of quick combo strings but have to avoid the few hits he can get on me because my combo string damage is the same as 2 hits from him. actually the low damage output allows for the combo setups to occur, the low knock-back allows pika to catch characters pretty well.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

no it wouldn't be frustrating, pikachu has many many combo set ups and amazing gimp ability so damage output wouldn't be that big of an issue, for example, when i play heavy characters (Gannon) i run a lot of quick combo strings but have to avoid the few hits he can get on me because my combo string damage is the same as 2 hits from him. actually the low damage output allows for the combo setups to occur, the low knock-back allows pika to catch characters pretty well.

Lol all of this keeps making me think of Kirby, idk why, but yea sucks for hevies and fastfallers who are more susceptible, luckily none of my mains are in that category

 

[Angiance]

@ Dee-SmashinBoss
Ironically, light characters are fairly vulnerable to our vertical comboes

We can do D.Throw > U.Air x3 > Thunder to Jigglypuff from 15% or so

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

@ Dee-SmashinBoss
Ironically, light characters are fairly vulnerable to our vertical comboes

We can do D.Throw > U.Air x3 > Thunder to Jigglypuff from 15% or so

It leads to thunder? Does his Uair have more vertical knockback angle?
Jeez......if he had multiple jumps like Kirby he would be a serious nightmare

 

[Angiance]

Yes, if you hit with the correct part of the tail it sends them up and in front of Pikachu

 

[isaiah :)]

Lol all of this keeps making me think of Kirby, idk why, but yea sucks for hevies and fastfallers who are more susceptible, luckily none of my mains are in that category

yeah some of pika's ariel moves come out really fast and provide great juggling to light characters although comboing isn't as good. plus pikas lingering hitbox ariels like Bair and Nair which can force an air dodge or even follow an air dodge, so like it was said earlier, pikachu has a lot of mix up's to combat characters across the spectrum

 

[Kaladin]

@ Dee-SmashinBoss
Ironically, light characters are fairly vulnerable to our vertical comboes

We can do D.Throw > U.Air x3 > Thunder to Jigglypuff from 15% or so

I've heard about this, but I can't get it to work for some reason. Could you possibly direct me to a video or gif of the combo?

Sorry for the offtopic post.

 

[isaiah :)]

I've heard about this, but I can't get it to work for some reason. Could you possibly direct me to a video or gif of the combo?

Sorry for the offtopic post.

its not a real combo, it just depends on how you DI and if you can follow your opponents DI but it is really hard to escape from.

 

[Kaladin]

its not a real combo, it just depends on how you DI and if you can follow your opponents DI but it is really hard to escape from.

I realize that. When I say combo I just mean tight string, not true combo. The questions still stands

 

[Angiance]

It actually *does* true combo

@ Kaladin
http://gfycat.com/WarmChubbyJaguarundi

 

[Ogopogo]

Both Thunder Wave and standard T-jolt are good. I use them for different MUs personally, but I feel like T-wave is overall better due to the ability to straight up kill people at 50-60%.

How in the world are you killing off of a thunder wave at 50%? Are you hitting them with it as close at possible and getting a charged side-b at the edge? That's the only scenario I can imagine.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

How in the world are you killing off of a thunder wave at 50%? Are you hitting them with it as close at possible and getting a charged side-b at the edge? That's the only scenario I can imagine.

I killed someone using that and then Meteor Quick Attack offstage.

 

[Legato]

@ Ogopogo that is what he does, but he pressures the opponent in a way that makes that occur commonly. I'm pretty sure heavy skull bash doesn't need to be fully charged to kill either. The kill potential sky rockets by charging it for a second or 2. Also, the 50-60% kills can occur on diddy, meaning that this kills even earlier on lighter characters or less charge is needed to obtain the kill at 50-60%.