Pikachu's dsmash is not that great... :(

[Gmoney]

Okay, yeah, I'm done arguing this point. To sum up my argument, Pikachu's dsmash is amazingly easy to escape by multitapping smash DI up and the person who escaped will have only taken a few damage. If someone escapes from the dsmash in this way then there should be no way for Pikachu to truly punish or setup for anything. The only thing it does in most cases is reset the match momentum, which doesn't matter because Brawl is so much more focused on the push and pull than the punish and the momentum that comes with that.

I'm not saying anything about the range, damage, knockback or anything else about the attack. I'm just letting people know that it is ridiculously easy to escape, but if your friends get ***** by it than that is great for you.

 

[Tagxy]

It's actually not too bad if they DI out. The only reason people thought pikas brawl dsmash was strong was because it sent them far away, though it takes really high percents to kill someone (it only does 15 damage, that's less then melee if you take into account the high percents it takes to kill someone). If they DI out, it sets them up for easier comboing like it used to in melee (I thought his dsmash was better in melee because it didnt send your opponents too far, I used it more in melee then I do now).

 

[Gmoney]

I'm done arguing this. delete

 

[Tagxy]

Hate to say it, but that just shows that you don't know much about pikachu or were probably fighting people who liked to spam the dsmash too much. I guess I can't speak for other pikachu players, but the biggest advantage to the dsmash in melee and brawl is the confusion it causes to your opponent, especially when used as a counterattack due to its amazing priority. I was sort of disappointed with how they changed it in Brawl because it sort of puts a stopper in Pika's quick barrage of attacks and you have to chase down your opponent wherever they fly to, and in the meantime they get the chance to recoop and begin a new approach. In fact when I first read the title of this thread I thought that's what you were talking about. As for DIing out, I think you described it best, your opponent sort of plops out, leaving them very limited in what they can do for quite awhile. It might not leave pika set up for a perfect combo (it didnt even do that in melee), but it allows you to keep the pressure on, which is what Pika is good at in the first place. A good pika player should be able to pull more out of their opponents proximity then the 5-10% the opponent shaved by DIing out.

 

[VEC]

Yup his Downsmash can barely kill unless there over 150%, his best moves are thunder and side smash sweet spot to kill. Believe me I know what I'm talking about, I have mained Pikachu since 64 and Melee where he sucked and owned people, don't believe me, fight me send me a PM

 

[TechnoMonster]

Dsmash is a great move wtf are you talking about.

1) 15% damage isn't bad
2) Can **** a shield
3) Massive hitbox
4) Huge priority above itself.
5) setup for thunder and juggleses.
6) You can DI out of Peach's dsmash in melee.

 

[R.O.B.TheROCKbot]

Are you crazy?

The dsmash is fantastic. Not only does it have a huge range, it also throws the opponent (usually) upwards. If they're not fast enough, you can lightning bolt. If it hits right, you can keep doing that and get a kill. At high percentages, it throws some characters so high up one bolt will end it.

Plus. It looks ****ing cool.

 

[Muhznit]

I find that I don't kill often with the DownSmash compared to oddly enough, the Up Smash. Call me crazy, but with Brawl's new easier Dash->UpSmash mechanics, it's easier for me to rush in out of nowhere and go for a Star KO. Either that or I UpSmash from a Fair.

My friends absolutely dread the DownSmash regardless however; It's commonly called the "LIGHTNING **** SPIN" by us.

 

[Gmoney]

I'm done arguing this. delete

 

[Tagxy]

The move only lasts a long time if an opponent is being hit by the attack. Even assuming a best case scenario, where an opponent DI's out perfectly on the second hit, and the matches momentum is 'reset' as you say, the opponent is still in very close proximity to pikachu. What your missing is that this situation is incredibly favorable to a pikachu player, especially moreso then if they flew away. They are able to keep the pressure on, and momentum would only be reset if the player chose to do nothing. In Brawl (even moreso then melee) Pikachu's close range attacks have awesome speed, priority, etc. Having the opponent next to me even if the conditions were completely neutral is a gift. The biggest problem might potentially be characters with some range attacks like Marth, Ike, or Pit, who might be able to keep pikachu away, although I don't imagine it would be since even theyre still rather close to plan much and theyre so close that a QAC -> dair, uair, nair would hit them.

Also, that's assuming a best case scenario. If the opponent is tapping straight up, then they'll leave towards the end of the attack. If they slide the analog stick along the top of the pad, they could push out much earlier, but the hitstun from electric attacks leaves you with at least a 50% chance (if not more) that you'll fall back into the attack and be hit by the last part of the attack. And since they're at the maximum upper part of the range (thanks to their upwards DI), it has a greater chance of sending them straight upwards or in that general direction, and that is probably the only useful time the dsmash sends an opponent far away.

On top of that, after a certain percent (depends on the character) the opponent will have to be good a teching because itll send them crashing into the ground very quickly and at whatever random time the DI out. Even if they do tech, it's just extra time pika has to set up for a usmash, forward smash, nair, or some other move.

I think the only people this will affect are people who liked to camp pikachu or don't know how to use him aggressively. For people who know how to use him aggresively it shouldnt be too much of a problem.

P.S. I realized you probably don't know, the dsmashes main use is as a defensive tactic, almost like a shield. Forgot to expand on that oh well.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

If the other player DIs too late upwards, they will bedi'ing teh strong last hit (which has vertical knockback) and die early. It's still a good move. It draws them in, and eats shields.

 

[Rykard]

it may not be as amazing as some make it out to be, but its essential to pikas gameplay and punishes the hell out of rollers

 

[Gmoney]

I'm done arguing this. delete

 

[VEC]

He deserved the Buff, HE WAS AWFUL IN MELEE, but I still mained him, because im not a scrub

 

[Flax]

IF they managed to DI out of it, it isn't that great. Alright. *Gives a big'ol thumbs up* I'll have to say, regardless if they break out of it or not, it's rather disorienting and will likely place that portion of the scuffle in your favour. Like many have already said, makes for pretty good set ups.

 

[Tagxy]

Okay, just test out what I'm talking about. Go into training mode, set anyone up to around 200% and dsmash them. Have the other person hit up on the control stick 2-4 times and he'll escape from the dsmash and only take a few damage. It's about a 50% chance either way for them to just plop down on the ground or actually slam into the ground allowing them to tech. Afterwards, they'll be able to shield, roll, run away or do whatever they want. It'll be impossible for you to actually punish the person that just escaped the dsmash because they'll escape before the animation is even over. Neither person in this case actually has the ability to truly punish the other. Flame me more without actually testing what I'm talking about, please.

At this point I have a feeling I know more about it then you. I tested this out for at least an hour when I read the thread last night. It's not a 50% chance, it has to do with how high their percentage is. And no, they can't escape before the animation is over. As I said, assuming they DI perfectly, are at a low enough percent where they won't have to tech, and can get out on the second hit, Pika and the opponent are able to move at the exact same time. The close proximity leaves them open to a QAC attack right afterwards, but in any case the opponent is very limited in what they can do.

 

[Ilex]

I friggin love Pika's Dsmash. It has huge priority and hitbox, and when flown upwards the opponent is in the perfect position for a Thunder to send them flying off the stage. Best move to use when everyone is crowded in a tight space, just Dsmash all 3 other players at once.

 

[Tagxy]

I'm done arguing this. delete

You never argued it in the first place, guess that's why you might have deleted your posts. You said Pikachu's dsmash could be DI'd out of, and automatically expected everyone to believe it was a horrible move.

 

[Flax]

That and nobody really said you COULDN'T DI out of it. I'd be tired of arguing when I was the only one doing so as well. Only thing we didn't say was "Well, Pikachu sucks now. I'll never play him again. Thanks, Gmoney!"

 

[lain]

While not being that great, it's still fast, and disrupts a lot of moves.

People DI'ing out of it certainly makes it a lot worse. The End.

 

[think13]

Some people have been mentioning that it sets up for a thunder. I your opponent is DIing to either side, it doesn't set up for a thunder, they go at about a 45 degree angle instead of straight upwards. I've found that the upsmash is a much better thunder set up, especially if it is hyphen-smashed.

Otherwise, the dsmash is great against dodgers.

It definitely shouldn't be spammed, and is not a good kill move. So overall, it's not great, but it's not bad either.

 

[Coen]

Closing on request. No need to delete methinks.