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Pikachu Stage Discussion Thread

~Radiance~

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I noticed that we didn't seem to have a stage discussion thread yet, so I figured I would start it.

Since a good majority of our play is determined by specific stages, this is the avenue to come and voice your opinions on what stages pikachu truly benefits from, and which stages we would rather avoid playing on. The community itself drives the metagame, so lets see what opinions our various trainers have.

To keep this thread more succinct, I am going to be updating another post that will serve as the primary living document to scribe down our communities opinions, thoughts, and overall score for various stages. The way I am structuring this is I will let the second post serve as the identifier of what stage we are talking about, so look to that post to see where our current discussion is at. If at any time you wish to revisit a particular stage or give input on something that was not previously mentioned in the below post, please feel free to add input so long as it does not derail any talk about a stage we are currently discussing.



Without more Delay, lets begin

 

~Radiance~

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The stage being discussed will change weekly or when enough input has been made

Past Stages Discussed:


Battlefield

Current Stage Being Discussed:


Final Destination
 
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pudding7100

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For me I don't really like battlefield if im playing with pikachu. The reasons I don't like the stage is #1 you can't use up throw to thunder that much. #2 I just feel like you can't use the thunder jolts as well because of the platforms.
 

Soul.

 
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Battlefield with Pikachu is, simply put, a "meh" stage for us.

As Pudding said, Battlefield's platforms don't let us use Thunder Jolt as well for stage control, and since Pikachu is a camping character that forces you to approach with Thunder Jolt alone (unless you use a character with projectiles (Link, Toon Link)), it's gonna be hard for Pikachu to use the move. Characters like Sheik get the upper hand on Battlefield because again, platforms, which lets her KO with sweetspotted up smash below one. I mean we can still do the typical Pikachu stuff, it's just the platforms that are the problem. They don't let us take it easy and are pretty much why we should approach on this stage almost always. Quick Attack works for this, even though any competent Pikachu player shouldn't be using it 100% of the time—you'll be predictable otherwise. Dashing and shielding works too.

Our only methods of KOing in Battlefield are back throw on the ledge, up smash (reads tho), Thunder (offstage), FAir, BAir and possibly forward smash. Honestly I'm not sure what is the most reliable KO move on this stage. It's either forward smash or up smash, but I'll go with up smash as our best kill move.

Up throw to Thunder, which is our best KO setup outside of jab locking, is nerfed on this stage because of platforms. At least with the new ledge mechanics it lets Pika go back to the stage with ease.

The only things Pikachu benefits from Battlefield's platforms are Up Air strings it wouldn't be able to do on stages like, say, Final Destination (although it is definitely possible for it to happen on that stage, it's more reliable with platforms). QALCs are also another benefit. If I'm missing something else that benefits Pikachu on this stage, please tell me.

Personally, I would give this stage a 5/10 for the reasons I just posted. We shouldn't be playing on Battlefield; Pikachu has better stages.

(If I did something wrong, quote this and I'll edit it).
 
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Arikie

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battlefield.png




I'm not a huge fan of battlefield when using pikachu

The Negatives
platforms get in the way of tjolts and thunder
platforms can get in the way of QA
some characters have really good options below platforms (shulk uptilt can hit the top middle platform)
stage is a little on the small side which doesn't help highlight pikachu's mobility

The Positives
you can QALC on the platforms and ledges, flashy.
The platforms can actually be used for some thunderjolt mixups
platforms can help us combo longer by refreshing our jumps or giving us an opportunity to tech chase
Pikachu's mobility allows him to camp the platforms somewhat
Pikachu can go under this stage and recover on the other side pretty easily, try using a skullbash after being hit offstage and just unleashing it to go under. Remember you don't get your ledge invulnerability back if you grabbed the other ledge already.

Tjolt mixup on platforms
We all know that tjolts follow the ground in arcs when they land and that platforms generally block them, tjolts will normally follow walls, floors, and ceilings with PlatForms being the exception. A Tjolt will end itself after curving around a platform.

However, a carefully aimed Tjolt can hit a human sized character standing even in the middle area underneath one of battlefields platforms. Some of our opponents may have a false sense of security if you 'mistakenly' thunderjolt a platform, only for it to curve around right when they thought it would end. The optimal place to aim the ball of the tjolt is just BARELY past the middle of the platform.
 
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ZTD | TECHnology

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I feel like Battlefield has merit when you need to play more defensively. The platforms promote QAC shenanigans and running in general. I feel like its a 6 or 7 out of 10. A 5 suggests its not very useful to us. I believe it to be a stage useful in situations where you need to camp or avoid getting hit a lot.

Extra platforms means more recovery options if we do have to recover. Main thing I don't like is the Thunder barrier. Thunder isn't just an attack. It's a combo breaker and that's a valuable tool to lose. But we do gain extended/more creative combos. We also main more possibility for Jab Lock setups (learn 2 condition).

Overall its decent. We tend to like more dynamic stages but its got its merits.
 

Psyant

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Can't say I'm a fan of Battlefield. Traditionally it's been a good stage for Pikachu in some past games (Melee, PM) because he got a massive reward off up air pokes through the platforms, but that isn't true in this game. Pikachu does still like people to be above him, and platforms can give you more of those opportunities, but it's not really as game-changing.

The cons outweigh any potential benefits as far as this stage goes, imo. You gain quick attack platform cancel shenanigans but those are difficult to utilize fully, and in return you lose a lot of stage presence due to the platforms getting in the way of fullhop'd thunderjolts. Also, as others have mentioned, our thunder combos are nerfed here.

It's worth considering how much more other characters benefit from Battlefield too. Tall characters can often poke at you with up tilts or up smashes from below the platforms, but you can't do the same. Others like ZSS and Falcon get a big combo game boost when they can land on platforms to refresh their jumps in between hits (seriously, don't take ZSS here lol). Pikachu gets a minor boost from this too but it's not as significant.

More than anything else I think Battlefield is just meh and there's not much reason to pick it as there are several other stages much better for Pikachu, but I'll talk about those when we come on to them.
 

skiboots

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I feel like Battlefield has merit when you need to play more defensively. The platforms promote QAC shenanigans and running in general. I feel like its a 6 or 7 out of 10. A 5 suggests its not very useful to us. I believe it to be a stage useful in situations where you need to camp or avoid getting hit a lot.

Extra platforms means more recovery options if we do have to recover. Main thing I don't like is the Thunder barrier. Thunder isn't just an attack. It's a combo breaker and that's a valuable tool to lose. But we do gain extended/more creative combos. We also main more possibility for Jab Lock setups (learn 2 condition).

Overall its decent. We tend to like more dynamic stages but its got its merits.
What's up dude.

Care to elaborate on how Thunder is a combo breaker? I've never really used it for that, but if it's that useful for breaking combos I'd love to start utilizing more in that sense.
 

Soul.

 
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What's up dude.

Care to elaborate on how Thunder is a combo breaker? I've never really used it for that, but if it's that useful for breaking combos I'd love to start utilizing more in that sense.
Thunder has been a combo breaker tool ever since the 3DS version was released (ver. 1.0.0). It was used to break combos / follow ups because even if Pikachu got hit, it could use Thunder and the move could hit the opponent.
In ver. 1.0.4, though, the combo breaker part is not as good as it used to be. You can still use it to break combos; you just can't do it instantly.
Thunder's main use now is the fact that it's a move that can be used out of an up throw or edgeguard effectively in the air.
 
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~Radiance~

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Hey party people.

So since we have a good base discussion going on this, starting Sunday ill be changing our stage topic to Final Destination. Feel free to input any additional thoughts on the stage before then, and we can always revisit previous stages if you feel we missed something.​

Ill be compiling everyone's input into a stage analysis and put it in the OP. Thanks for the input and keep it coming everyone!

Oh also a note to your question Ski: Thunder now comes out on frame one, which means that its a combo breakers. If you are being juggled you cannot use it to combo break like it was in 1.0 however. Still a great option when being pressured and breaking strings of unwanted pressure, but you cannot as easily break out of say marios utilt strings by just mashing down B now







Update: We have moved on to discussing Final Destination. Input your thoughts now!
 
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CarbuncleHero

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Walled omegas vs. thin platform omegas. Anyone have a preference to one over the other? Are there any character specific disadvantages (e.g. olimar can't recover low as well on walled omegas, characters lose wall jumps,etc)

I also have an idea for this stage thread. Why not make it a comparison thread? Like Halberd vs Delfino Isle. You would still get the stage discussion, plus you get to see how it stacks up against another stage, and it's probably easier to get a conversation going.
 

~Radiance~

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Walled omegas vs. thin platform omegas. Anyone have a preference to one over the other? Are there any character specific disadvantages (e.g. olimar can't recover low as well on walled omegas, characters lose wall jumps,etc)

I also have an idea for this stage thread. Why not make it a comparison thread? Like Halberd vs Delfino Isle. You would still get the stage discussion, plus you get to see how it stacks up against another stage, and it's probably easier to get a conversation going.
Later on we can revisit stage discussion in terms of comparison, but right now we just want to have base opinions on what stages are best and which are worst, highlighting the pros and cons of both. It's somewhat frivolous to compare stages to one another when we already have a ranking system that will enable you to determine what stage youd rather play on. What we can do however is discuss what stages you would want to CP/Ban on certain characters, but that will be reserved for later once the metagame has evolved more and we know matchups better.

I didnt actually think about Omegas in terms of FD. I know some omegas are banned, so for now lets just stick with regular fd. The various walls and what not of other omegas will definitley act in favor/against some MU's
 

TheASDF

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This thread is kinda old but I'd like to see more discussion here. FD, to me, seems like one of Pikachu's better stages - it lets people have to deal with Thunder Jolts without being able to retreat to a platform, lets Pikachu use Thunder onstage more easily than any other, and gives Pikachu lots of room for Quick Attack shenanigans (though perhaps not as many as Smashville, T&C, or Lylat). It's also one of the easier stages to edgeguard on - the slope means you can get stage spikes if they recover low, and they'll be discouraged from recovering high with no platforms to go to. If they do recover high, it can put them in line for a Thunder or a smash attack.

As for Omegas, I prefer ones with slopes (e.g. FD, Palutena's Temple, Gaur Plains) for the stage spiking stuff mentioned above, though there's definitely room for ones with straight walls (Kalos, Yoshi's Island) for walljumps and easier edgeguarding on some characters. Somewhat matchup dependent, I think.
 

Soul.

 
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Final Destination is one of Pikachu's good stages I think----well it was good in Brawl, so I dunno. Thunder Jolt covers a lot of space as does Quick Attack; the former gets us a free grab if the opponent doesn't shield it and the latter for faster mobility. Basically all we do here is camp the opponent with our good moves (Jolts, dtilt) and wait for them to approach. Then that's when we start comboing until KO percent; the KO options we have here are... decent? I'm not sure.

· Up smash
· Heavy Skull Bash (After jab lock. Situational)*
· FSmash
· Thunder (Offstage or after up throw)

Up smash is good against light and middleweight characters since they're KO'd early. Even though it's not safe on shield you shouldn't really worry about it, just find an opening and KO with this move. OoS Usmash works too.

Heavy Skull Bash is situational imo. While it may KO earlier than Pikachu's smash attacks, you need to set up a jab lock; jab locks are not hard to do but you have to be next to the opponent and don't use jab more than 3 times. 1 time or 2 is good enough to charge HSB and KO.

FSmash is FSmash. KOs horizontally, good for characters that don't get KO'd vertically. Also good after a pivot. Not much to say here other than it's good if you position yourself correctly and KO them right away (that is, if they recover horizontally).

We use Thunder better on FD than on Battlefield. Platforms are gone which lets us use up throw and follow up as long as the opponent doesn't expect it (or DI). A good option offstage as our edgeguard game is good and meteor smashing / KOing an opponent in the air is great. Speaking of Thunder, omegas with walls are good for Pikachu thanks to the wall jump B-reverse Thunder. They give us another option to hit the opponent when we recover, granted you keep your jump and know how to B-reverse Down B's. This requires a lot of practice though, timing is tricky and you may get a wavebounce Thunder instead of a B-reverse.

(This was not made by me)

Regardless of this, the stage itself is pretty good for us as again, we're fast, we have a projectile, we have another mobility option and Thunder offstage to meteor smash other characters. Some projectile-based characters benefit from FD too so I think this stage will be mostly about campy matches, but then again, we can get through that with QA OoS. In matches against other characters it will be either even or in Pikachu's favor because of said reasons.

It's a good stage overall.

----
Thunder Wave is good here too.

*Mentioned HSB here because customs are revelant. I would mention Thunder Wave too as a KO option but it's a set up.
 

Captain L

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personally I was always a huge fan of FD in brawl, it was my go to stage. Now I never pick it, and even consider banning it. I think that losing the mobility options provided by platforms really highlights pikachu's lack of range, a disadvantage that I find much easier to work around when given platforms to work with. Again this is exactly the opposite of how I felt about brawl pika where I'd ban battlefield and pick fd whenever possible. I also think that pikachu's low percent combos can go on much longer when there are platforms to work with, and thus on FD once your opponent figures out how to DI you'll rarely get more than 2 or 3 hits.

I think this is one of pikachus worst stages against shiek, if they play defense properly you'll have a hard time using jolts because you'll just take a stack of needles to the face when you land. Smashville and battlefield are both way better.

(Also I know I'm late to the bf party but I really think it's one of our best stages)
 

TheASDF

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Yeah, I think Battlefield is good for Pika - really, any stage with a lot of room on the edges for Pikachu to edgeguard or even just threaten an edgeguard is good for him. Battlefield is really good in this regard, and I think the platforms add some utility for combo game and Quick Attack shenanigans that you can't get as easily with other stages.

Since this thread doesn't seem to moving with any kind of regularity, I'll just throw out my opinions on a few stages:

- Battlefield as above.
- FD I like a little less than I said above, because he doesn't have as many tools to edgeguard opponents who recover high and he doesn't have the safety of platforms to Quick Attack to as an option. Still good for being able to camp them with jolts and get Thunders.
- Smashville is fine, as always. Platform allows for QACs, which is fun. The nice mix of Battlefield and FD.
- T&C's low ceiling is alright because of up smash kills, but I feel like a lot of other top tiers (Diddy, Rosa, even ROB) with great up airs get more off of the platforms than he des. Besides, the platforms are higher up so they're a little harder to take advantage of. The large size is kinda nice, though. Sides are smaller, which I don't like as much for edgeguards. Overall I prefer other stages.
- Lylat gives a ton of QACs, which is useful, and spaced out so you can still use jolts and Thunder - plus, low enough that you can use them efficiently and high enough they're still a decent recovery option. Jank ledges don't hurt Pikachu as much, especially when QAC can give you an automatic retreat when you get on stage, and when recovering can be scarier for other characters edgeguards can be more efficient. One of my favourite Pikachu stages.
- Duck Hunt's alright. Fun to try to catch people landing on the left tree with Thunders. Harder to edgeguard here, I think, but on stage it's pretty okay.
- Halberd I don't like much - a little small for my taste, and again other characters get more off of the low ceiling than Pikachu. Plus, when people can recover through the bottom it removes the threat of a stage spike, which isn't good, and I've tried to snap to ledge occasionally and accidentally gone right through the stage. That's probably more of a practice thing, but still an added difficulty. I find Lylat's edges easier.
- Same deal with Delfino. I really like the layout of the platforms on the middle sections, and some of the more awkward sections can be alright for Pikachu's movement or camping. He doesn't get much off of the walkoffs in terms of killing, though. Not a bad stage for him.
- Castle Siege sucks. First part is dreadfully small, second part is scary for Pikachu's life, and third part is just a more annoying FD.

Those are just my personal opinions for my playstyle, though; I'd imagine there's Pikachus that like to go in more than me that might like a smaller stage like Siege or Halberd more than me.
 

isaiah :)

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BF- great option against slower characters(characters that can kill pika before he makes it to even 100 damage.ex gannon)
however i want to say Delfino is one of pikas safest and best maps. and heres why
*some spots have close blast zones, earlier kills for pika
* holy crap ledges and platforms
* can QA cancel almost anywhere, so many platforms
*QA combos

-just my opinion
 

Soul.

 
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Okay so I just changed my opinion on Battlefield. It's still an eh stage imo, but it gets the job done. Platform combos, QALC, and more room to edgeguard as said before.
The other stages need more discussion though.
 

isaiah :)

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then Delfino, Smashville, and town and city are perf for QA
 

isaiah :)

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well no one has updated anything so just lay down your thoughts, if anything, any bit of information will help those who still sit and read this
 

Shintarru

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Well I think pika does better with platforms. They simply add more mobility to his game to move around the stage faster and help with matchups where pika might be outcamped. My go to starters are Smashville and Battlefield. Smashville because of the platform auto cancels quick attack and you can still zone with tjolts. I like battlefield because you can juggle better with platforms and recover on platforms with quick attack.

FD give more thunder freedom but you aren't going to hit most players not on autopilot with uthrow thunder combos without reacting to their DI. Even then a fastfall air dodge can punish you. Other than than you can use thunder to break combos but that generally never works for me. I can go into counterpicks when I have more experience on them.
 

phili

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I personally think battlefield is a good stage for Pikachu.

Although the lower platforms do mess around with FH t-jolt, I don't think thunder is affected as much as many people here have said. U-throw thunder still works as long as you aren't below the middle platform. Just do a rising/jumping thunder if you are under the side platforms and the opponent will still be spiked into the sweetspot around pikachus body.

Also, I find that battlefield has very deep lower blast zones, allowing Pikachu to go very deep for his edge guards, which isn't possible on some other stages (such as Duck Hunt).

I'd probably give it an 8/10 overall, maybe even a 9/10 if the Pikachu player is really good at QAC'ing on the platforms. The only things I think that are holding this stage back for us are t-jolt being less effective and the upper blast zone being a bit high, causing upsmash to kill slightly later.
 

hidensheik11

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do opponents instantly ban battlefield when they play against pikachu? what stage do opponents usually ban when they have to play pikachu?
 
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FirewaterDM

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From my experience, I think Haliberd is the stage that gets most banned by people instantly. But at least personally I feel like Battlefield isn't that good of a stage, yes it's good for the combo game, but I feel that while pika's game improves on battlefield, I feel like it helps my opponents more than it helps me.
 

O Hobbit

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do opponents instantly ban battlefield when they play against pikachu? what stage do opponents usually ban when they have to play pikachu?
Normaly the ban depends on the MU. For exemple, when I face sheiks they never ban Battle Field, but Sonic's always do so.

Btw, today I had a tourney and I chose Delfino against a Sonic, but I got... *****. He 3 stocked me there, but we are around the same level. I sent him to losers 2x1 and he defeated me in losers 2x1, with every match but this one beeing really close. Was my cp that bad or the problem is with me?
 
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