Pika Q&A/FAQ Thread: Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer!

[Ookami Hajime]

My point is that there are still people who believe that he's at a disadvantage to MK, so becoming anything higher than even is a bit difficult to believe.
Let's make it happen, though.

 

[Hoenn]

I mean, it's worth a shot. If any character board could produce such a breakthrough, I'd say it's this board.
I've gotten more help from this boards than any other board that I've posted in.

Since this is my least experienced matchup, due to living in Illinois and not having many meta knight mains to play with, I will need to be informed a bit.

What are our strengths and weaknesses in this matchup? We should work from there.

I would assume that our weaknesses include
1. Inability to edge guard
2. Struggling to kill
3. Stage list
4. Tornado
5. Difficulty landing
Anything else?

Strengths
1. Chain grab
2. A projectile that forces him to approach
3. Difficult to gimp/great recovery against him
Anything else?

I feel like it is more important to eliminate the problems in the matchup, so please add to that list. I am like 99% sure that I forgot a lot of stuff for that list.

 

[Pikabunz]

Being even with MK was already a big breakthrough for Pikachu. If any character had the potential to have an advantage over MK it's the IC's.

 

[Angiance]

Pikachu v Meta Knight is 45-55; Meta Knight

Meta Knight, from a technical perspective, has far, far, far more than we do. Now, like many MUs that have slight disadvantages, we can still win, yes, it's just that it won't be because of the character but the player. Meta Knight has more than we do, much, much, much more, so it takes less work for Meta Knight to win given his wide range of tools; Pikachu has to really work for the win, given the insufficient amount of tools compared to Meta Knight.

Now, player wise, a Pikachu main vs a Meta Knight main would be 50-50 given most Meta Knight players won't be as skilled/dedicated as a Pikachu player; that is, they will not have as much knowledge on their character as we do for our character.

 

[Hoenn]

Being even with MK was already a big breakthrough for Pikachu. If any character had the potential to have an advantage over MK it's the IC's.

MK destroys Ice climbers.
Like no doubt in my mind about how horrible that matchup is.
Against an experienced MK, I'd go pikachu over ice climbers any day

@ Angiance Then it would be 45:55.
What specific details make us lose?
I am not understanding.

 

[Angiance]

45-55 comes from a technical perspective; character vs character, NOT player vs player

Anything Pikachu can do, Meta Knight can do better, and more

 

[Pikabunz]

MK destroys Ice climbers.
Like no doubt in my mind about how horrible that matchup is.
Against an experienced MK, I'd go pikachu over ice climbers any day

@ Angiance Then it would be 45:55.
What specific details make us lose?
I am not understanding.

It can't be that bad when even ESAM will sometimes go IC's over Pikachu against MK. I wonder if @[FBC] ESAM still thinks Pika:MK is even.

edit: I can't even tag ESAM's name.

 

[Angiance]

When ESAM says it's 50-50 he may be speaking about it from a Player v Player perspective. We can all agree that Meta Knight has much better frame data, hitboxes, etc. HOWEVER many Meta Knight players don't posses all of the knowledge about Meta Knight that a dedicated main would have on their own character, and thus, the conclusion MUST be 45-55 Meta Knight

 

[Hoenn]

When ESAM says it's 50-50 he may be speaking about it from a Player v Player perspective. We can all agree that Meta Knight has much better frame data, hitboxes, etc. HOWEVER many Meta Knight players don't posses all of the knowledge about Meta Knight that a dedicated main would have on their own character, and thus, the conclusion MUST be 45-55 Meta Knight

While that may be true some regard. It is not a consistent fact that doesn't give the player the benefit of the doubt and does not assume top level play. With that being said, it isn't really important to state.

 

[Angiance]

Well, 50-50 would be saying Pikachu has things that can go against what Meta Knight has, which is true BUT Meta Knight has things (obviously) that go against what Pikachu has, AND more.

Can we really call it 50-50 given the above fact?

 

[Hoenn]

Well, 50-50 would be saying Pikachu has things that can go against what Meta Knight has, which is true BUT Meta Knight has things (obviously) that go against what Pikachu has, AND more.

Can we really call it 50-50 given the above fact?

I don't know, nobody will answer my question >.<
Start naming stuff off lol

 

[Player -0]

It can't be that bad when even ESAM will sometimes go IC's over Pikachu against MK. I wonder if @[FBC] ESAM still thinks Pika:MK is even.

edit: I can't even tag ESAM's name.

@[FBC] ESAM

Try doing a space then [FBC]. After that ESAM's name should pop up.


Brb not contributing.

Edit: Nvm, ESAM has the perfect username so that you can't tag him. He thought of this before they even implemented it. Genius.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Okay, first of all:

1. My personal opinion is that Pikachu vs MK is even. They have the tools to beat each other and thunder plays a big role, being one of the only moves ever that can effectively edge guard MK. The chain grab helps build damage and Pikachu has a recovery that prevents easy kills for MK. Thunder is somewhat easier to land on MK because of his low aerial mobility.

2. ICs can chain grab every single character from 0 to death. With that being the case, match ups are only described for ICs as "bad" when it is difficult to land a grab. If you view it in another aspect, ICs beats every character in the game. I don't think that ESAM chooses to go ICs over Pikachu because of the Pikachu/MK match up; he's just confident that he can land the grab, which he does very often. A guaranteed kill on your opponent sounds great if you have a good ICs.

3. MK doesn't have thunder, a projectile, or a chain grab/guaranteed grab follow ups. These are some of the plus sides to Pikachu in the match up that makes me agree that it is even.

I'd also like to point out that I think it's funny when people say that landing the kill is a difficulty for Pikachu because that isn't a major issue when I play.

Hey, here's one of my matches by the way. Any tips? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj5sTWse2ck

 

[Angiance]

I want to, once again, state: Yes, we DO have things that do in fact COUNTER Meta Knight's things; HOWEVER, Meta Knight >>>has things that counter us AND MORE<<<

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Bell, people say it is even because they both have their ups and downs against each other. And while you may personally think that is highly visible that MK has the advantage, I also stated that this is my personal opinion.

Besides, even though MK has more tools to work with, Pikachu arguably has tools that impact the match more or to the same extent.

 

[Hoenn]

Bell, what does MK have on us?
Be specific. lol

Ookami, Crawl is really good against pit, there is even a certain range where pit cannot hit you with arrows and it forces pit to commit to an option.

Since pit has a horrible dash grab, if you are in this range, just about any move he tries to hit you with can be shielded leading to a free punish...
If he tries to arrow you from that range, it's a free punish due to the pit's arrow cooldown.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks!

 

[-Se7en-]

These boards man...lol...

 

[hell-dew]

disrespect pit more air chase him way more off stage if you catch his Up B hes screwed especially when you were on your second stock and he was on his last he has more to lose. also SDI that pit was horrid at landing the kill boxes on his kill moves with Bair Fair and overly replied on Fsmash SDI that if you see him depending on it. TBH i dont feel like that pit abused his tools all that well but maybe thats cause hes my secondary

 

[Ookami Hajime]

The match was from quite a while ago, back when he was just picking up Pit. It's his main now and he's gotten much more difficult to play against. My SDI is lacking greatly against this character and it's something I need to work on.

I don't really think it's a good idea to over commit to gimping Pit's recovery, only because Pit players are sneaky about foot stools. Sometimes I think you're better off allowing them back to the stage if you don't want to jeopardize the game for yourself. I only go for the gimp if it's obvious that I'll land the hit and I know there's nothing he can do to prevent me from coming back.

Check this one out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnC79HZWYfA
Reminding that these are not recent matches. Thanks~

 

[infiniteV115]

You should never be getting footstooled by Pit. Even if you're overcommitting, you'll be getting hit by aerials, letting him get to the edge (and potentially edgehog you), getting QA reflected, or just going too far out and not being able to make it back to the edge. But if you're getting footstooled by Pit, you're doing something wrong in addition to the other thing you're doing wrong (overcommitting).

That video isn't too bad actually. Your offense is good; you mix things up and occasionally get creative. But you spotdodge and uair OoS predictably, and in general you were too slow (pun not intended I swear), and you could have used more jolts, sh fair and sh dair. There were also a lot of times you could have chased after Sonic and punished him for committing to an option, but you didn't.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Normally if I go for the gimp, I throw out a FF f-air off the edge during his recovery. I'll see how it works out, committing to it more often.

This was my first time playing a Sonic player, actually. It was mostly improvisation because I had only a rough idea for how to play the match up. I'll work on those spot dodges and experiment with some of the options you listed. Thanks!

 

[infiniteV115]

Fun fact: If you're in the animation of any aerial, b-move, or airdodge, getting footstooled won't affect you at all; it'll just cause the footstooler to jump off you, but you won't fall downwards as a result.

So if you're running off with FF fair to edgeguard Pit, and you end up below him and now he can footstool you, just jump and uair (or if he's close enough to footstool you in between the jump and uair, then just uair or QA immediately)

I'd rather just try to hit him out of his jumps with jolts, or frame trap with the jolt and punish with an aerial.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

That bottom option is what I tend to a at times

 

[hell-dew]

oh fun way to gimp pit totally forgot to mention this kill him with Quick attack you can snipe him with it the hurt box from QA can kill pits up B .

sonic is a weird MU to learn on the fly that one took me a little bit of time speaking of this MU though this happened at sktar (esam vs Meek) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d42wXUirwcA

speaking of frametraps does Pikachu have any frame traps that people like using?

 

[Hoenn]

When pit is offstage, what would you say is a good way of edge guarding him before he is forced to up B? Like, I usually just get whacked with Uair when I try to challenge him.
Speaking of Uair, how do we deal with pit if he's planking? The local pit in my area LOVES to plank.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Jolts when he is planking. That's it.
Thunder is always a good tool to stop his glide. After that, I like to fall with him rising n-air when anticipating their next jump.

 

[Hoenn]

When pikachu QAs what directions do pikachu's hurtbox's extend in?
Also, is it only during certain parts?
I think I have a really cool idea

 

[Angiance]

QA!

Does anybody wanna Brawl me online?

 

[Pikabunz]

I'll play you.

 

[Angiance]

Oh, okay. Here's my FC 3184 2759 6812

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Oh fun =o
I'm playing smash right now too

 

[Angiance]

Give me your FC, then we can play later

Add me on Skype pikas! (Angiance)

 

[Pikabunz]

Oh, okay. Here's my FC 3184 2759 6812

2406-4791-0340

 

[Angiance]

My Skype is Angiance Pikas! Add it if you wanna play me!

 

[infiniteV115]

Shouldn't really be approaching Pit from above when trying to edgeguard because he'll just defend himself with uair. If Pit's hard to gimp then don't worry about gimping him, just try to rack on damage with jolts/thunder and punish anything punishable he does (he whiffs a fair? Punish. He airdodges when you didn't attack? Punish)

And yeah jolts > planking

 

[Thor]

Pit's Angel Ring - ways around it? ISSDI works for me sometimes, but this move irritates me when they just use it and don't mash... and if I don't get shield up, it just goes to neutral.

How did ESAM make his name untaggable? @ [FBC] ESAM I'm curious about the technical details.

 

[Player -0]

Pit's Angel Ring - ways around it? ISSDI works for me sometimes, but this move irritates me when they just use it and don't mash... and if I don't get shield up, it just goes to neutral.

How did ESAM make his name untaggable? @ [FBC] ESAM I'm curious about the technical details.

If you can't punish it don't try. If they go for it in neutral though I think F-Smash outspaces it?


Also for ESAM's untaggable name I'm pretty sure it has something to do with him having a space between [FBC] and ESAM.

 

[Pikabunz]

It's the brackets in his name.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I hate when SWF randomly stops notifying me about threads...

EDIT: Now that I read some stuff

I honestly don't know if Pika/MK is 50-50 or 45-55. It is a REALLY close call and my opinion varies tournament to tournament. There are some days when I'm like "Oh wow I finally get some stuff so I can do much better" to "Ergh it's really annoying."

Bell, when you compare two characters to each other for a MU it doesn't matter how much better one of the characters are stand-alone. Yes MK has more tools, it's what makes him a better character. However, this does not correlate to the MU considering a lot of MK's tools don't really work on Pikachu, such as edgeguarding, unedgeguardable recoveries, dair camping, and just camping in general outside of specific stages/scenarios.

In this MU, MK pretty much has to nickel and dime you with tilts the whole game as you try to approach, considering nobody should really be getting hit by a plethora of jolts. If you have a lead you can force an approach, but MK has a really good mix-up on shield between tilts, dash grab, and defensive options that make it hard to react/predict what he is going to do. MK will win more neutral game encounters due to his f-tilt, but Pikachu gets A LOT off of a single hit. The main determining factor in this MU, for me, is ease of kills. Some days I feel like I can kill MK really easily, and then some days I just can't seem to land a hit. That is the main part of the MU that changes for me and that is what varies my opinion.