Pika Q&A/FAQ Thread: Ask a Quick Question, Get a Quick Answer!

[Gunnermaniac]

Against Denti, I was actually getting away with rolling behind him a lot and getting a free grab, so maybe that could help.

Yeah I actually found this to work really well against Denti specifically. He doesn't like to throw out an option if he's sitting in shield until he's sure it will be a good one. That being said the Olimar MU is beyond me, I get bodied.

 

[Angiance]

D-Tilt those pikmen!

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Yeah I actually found this to work really well against Denti specifically. He doesn't like to throw out an option if he's sitting in shield until he's sure it will be a good one. That being said the Olimar MU is beyond me, I get bodied.

Dude! You did so well against ALSM, and as Pika!!!

 

[Hoenn]

D-Tilt those pikmen!

Are you talking about in melee combat, spacing, or to Deflect pikmin?
D-tilt is good for deflecting the pikmin that are flung at low angles.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Yeaaah Gunner like never used Dtilt against ALSM

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I remember both of those (Me teaching you and us bodying the canadiens)

I prefer BF and SV vs ICs because you can pretty much run away indefinitely. You pretty much don't approach unless you land a T-jolt hit.

Finishing off MK is the hardest part of the MU and probably the reason why it is +1 MK IMO.

I don't know the Diddy MU well enough to help you, I've only played maybe 20 games in that MU total...

 

[Angiance]

D-Tilt is amazing

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

Care to back up your claim? Yes Dtilt is amazing. Gunner coaches me to use it more often but explain your claim that Dtilt is amazing against Pikmin.

Finishing off MK is the hardest part of the MU and probably the reason why it is +1 MK IMO.

Yeah, I went back and watched some SKTAR2 matches and there were so many times where you would have the lead on an MK (ZeRo) by like 50% and then you wouldn't kill them until they tacked on like 50% to you.

 

[Angiance]

Would it be a bad idea to use attached pikmin for hitbox extending (duration wise)?

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

...........que?

 

[hell-dew]

Ok testing out that oilmar MU with a local Olimar who was a lot better then me skill wise I found out a couple things but its still insanely hard. We actually murder him up close our grabs and punishes/Strings do really well against him. off stage we just destroy his life. the entire fight is a lot of tilts grabs and varous mixups. our Up air works really well i had very little luck with Fair and bair though. Nair is really situational. Oilmar has a ton of Hitboxs that come out that really hurt us and just beat our hurtboxes in range

up close his grabbing game really wreaks us and he can shut our Dair right out using Dair on the ground 90% of the time left me in a terrible situation I was getting reactonairly pivot grabed out of Dairs. Yellow Pikmin are pretty much our Bane to I found if i was outside of his zone and one was near me killing it was a huge plus cause that thing renders our electric moves flat out useless meanwhile our electric moves murder the other pikmin pretty well aside from purps cause their HP. I noticed a single jolt will kill a white to which is never a bad thing unless at high %s. leave those things alive cause they screw up his gurentreed kills at high% like his kill throws and Upsmash as well as his Fair.

approaching in this MU is hell though. we have tools but for every tool we have Oilmar has something to beat us. the key is to get him to use the wrong tool thus we can win in a situation. i was having some lucks fireing jolts over his grabs randomly breaking up your approaches with things like dash attacks run up Nairs/grabs. with a huge mix of spot dodging and shielding.

off stage holy crow we have tools. against his whistle our mutihit moves are pretty sweet Upairs into Nairs also work well against the whistle and we have the air mobility to gimp the living crap out of him. the main goal here is to force him to lose that second jump and make sure he doesnt get them back or land using everything from grab releasing him off the side of the side when recovering walling him with thunder (also thunder catches his tether to if hes hanging as well). if the olimar is ever low on pikmin hes super vulnerable to gimps to. on landings thunder/grabs put him in a pretty lousy position to

 

[Angiance]

Olimar is a fun challenge it would seem ^-^

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

No sir! He's the worst character in the game to fight! You NEED to go to a tournament dude. And don't say they're too far away because people travel all the time. We have a guy from Mississippi who attends our tournaments regularly; he's even ranked on our state's PR. MJG even goes from Kansas to NJ!

 

[Angiance]

Well, as a Pikachu only user, I've got a very competitive mentality; I like things to be as difficult as possible. You're right though dude. Question towards anybody: would D-Smash be effective against Mach Tornado, given it's transient priority?

 

[Jamwa]

How do people get around the RCO lag suffered after using quick attack?

 

[Angiance]

It's a matter of knowing how to get rid of, or dealing with it.

 

[Jamwa]

It's a matter of knowing how to get rid of, or dealing with it.

?

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

*Transcendent...failfish

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

How do people get around the RCO lag suffered after using quick attack?

Run away, short hop and land.

 

[hell-dew]

How do people get around the RCO lag suffered after using quick attack?

Im pretty sure you can also QAC again to the second landing doesnt have the lag. but mix it up a bit.

 

[Angiance]

Oops. Pikachu's D-Smash has a transcendant hitbox, so it could slice through Mach Tornado, no? | A ledge-snap with QA1 = no RCO lag; QA to ground gets rid of RCO lag if it's present; a ledge-snap with QA2 = RCO lag, QA back onstage/to a platform, avoiding a normal landing.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

I know Angiance just sort of explained it, but can someone explain to me what RCO lag actually is?

 

[Angiance]

Well, if Kirby for example, uses his hammer on the ground, he'll have extra frames on any type of landing (not all moves have this property); Marth gets RCO lag if he ledge-snaps with Dolphin Slash; Pikachu gets it with QA2 being canceled, etc.

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

So it's like, some moves used a certain way will give you RCO...and what does RCO do? Doesn't it make you land with more frames? and which of Pika's moves will give me RCO?

 

[Angiance]

RCO lag for us comes from: canceling QA or ledge-snapping with QA2, nothing else. RCO extends all landings in terms of frames, which is why it is VERY important to get rid of it.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Down in South Florida we all call RCO lag "Phantom Lag" becuase it is a landing lag that carries over from specific moves, mostly recovery moves (Such as falcons/ganons/marios/luigis/pikachus/marths/kirbys up-b). If your recovery gets interrupted (ledge snap counts) the next time you land you will have the lag you would've had if you landed with the up-b. This is why Pikachu's isn't that bad while the other are pretty terrible (Pikachu's up-b doesn't have that much recovery honestly).

 

[Angiance]

If an opponent has RCO lag, it can be used to our advantage for a combo.

 

[Gunnermaniac]

I'd like to add a couple of things about RCO lag as it relates to Pikachu and in general:
As has already been stated, RCO lag is extra frames that will apply the lag you would've had with QA to your next landing. Pikachu has way more tools than pretty much any other character to deal with this though, since QA is so versatile. The most annoying thing about it is if you get hit out of your QA and are forced to land unexpectedly, your opponent can get a medium to heavy punish from it (I actually found a PERFECT example of this. Even though Nike messes up a turn around, it still shows exactly how it can happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXrS_QOHNU0 @ 0:32). Just be careful.
Another interesting point about RCO is that if you land with an aerial, you'll get what I *believe* is the normal landing lag of that move plus another 1/3. This is why Marth's will come back on stage with a nair or uair after up-bing to the ledge, since they have very low landing lag already.
I could probably add more, but I'll end with noting that RCO lag is the reason why we can really destroy Marth with t-jolts on the ledge. He simply doesn't have safe options to deal with it, and will be forced to eventually choose a really committing option to regain stage control.

 

[Angiance]

Sorry to get off subject, but could Pika's D-Smash (having a transcendant hitbox) cut through MK's Mach Tornado? I've asked this numerous times, anyone got an answer?

 

[Jamwa]

Sorry to get off subject, but could Pika's D-Smash (having a transcendant hitbox) cut through MK's Mach Tornado? I've asked this numerous times, anyone got an answer?

This depends.
If Pika is on a platform and the MK is dumb enough to rise up during tornado, with Pika directly above the center of the tornado, then yeah I guess Dsmash will beat it (as would any move really).
From any other direction though, I don't think Dsmash will go through it, considering that Lucas' Usmash also doesn't beat tornado

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

I was testing out RCO and I guess I kind of get it...I just can't get it to work hehe.... Any way. Maybe Gunner can show me when I go to his house again.

Did you know that Sonic's Fsmash can go through nado?? As long as it out prioritizes over 7% then it will go through nado. Nado does like 2% per hit so transcendent or not, all needs to be is like 9% and it will go through nado. The trick is making to where your hurtbox is safe enough to where it doesn't touch nado's hitbox.

Also doesn't have a hitbox on his foot during Usmash? And Lucas can just use his disjointed Fsmash to plow through nado. I mean, wouldn't PK Freeze do it too?

 

[Jamwa]

Also doesn't have a hitbox on his foot during Usmash? And Lucas can just use his disjointed Fsmash to plow through nado. I mean, wouldn't PK Freeze do it too?

Yeah, there's an initial hitbox which props characters above Lucas' head to get hit by the main hitbox; it only does 2% . Lucas also goes invincible for 5 frames on startup
Fsmash works if you hit the nado, but its often too slow and MK can scoop up Lucas before he swings the stick.
PK freeze obviously goes through it, but again it's too slow for practical use. PK fire is the easiest counter, because the first hitbox stops nado and then the fire explosion hits mk.

But this is a Pikachu thread.

 

[AtneyB]

Pikachu's dsmash beat tornado

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Pikachu's D-smash beats tornado. However, there isn't a lot of disjoint short of the last hitbox and the gaps in the D-smash hitboxes (in terms of frames) is too large and tornado eats it up.

 

[Angiance]

Maybe with consistant precision it'd be practical for M.Tornado *shrugs*, thanks though everybody. So like, is it safe to say our main damage racker is SH D-Air, anybody?

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

We don't have a "main damage racker" dude.

 

[Pikabunz]

Our main damage racker is grabs.

 

[Angiance]

Well yeah, but it seems like SH D-Air is more safe, and deals very good damage (12%), while also leading into other things, like grabs, F-Tilt, blah, blah, blah.

 

[HoldeN HoT FiyA]

SH D-Air might be our main damage racker against the CPU lol

 

[TxB | Ramsaur]

SH Dair is safe but it does get read, and if your opponent knows the MU you can get shield grabbed like a lvl 9 CPU lol. Trust me, I have had it happen. It's only safe when used as a mixup because they never see it coming and it's such a strong mixup. I know from experience lol. Holden bruh! Why didn't you come to Who's Tyler?