Pichu's fair

[wool]

Whats annoying is that even if they don't main sheik they can pretty much dominate Pichu. That's the only thing that makes me hesitant on maining the mini rodent.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I,m thinking the same thing, but I think gannondorf would be just as bad if not worse(I think) because 4 hits your dead and he can chain throw you to 54%(found that out in some random gannnondorf guide thing) plus he has about the same range as sheik, but at least he is slow.

Sheik is retarted I can't do the d-throw chain throw with the ice climbers( I can sometimes do the the handoff, d-throw wd uptilt regrab and d-throw dair) but I can do sheiks chain throw super easy, I think sheik has the gayest d-throw ever at leat the ice climbers' are esacpeable normally or are somewhat hard to do.

TresCkikon-Maybe you should use a pokemon pun just for the WTF

 

[TresChikon]

I wouldn't believe Ganon would be a bad a matchup as Shiek v Pich or Roy v Ganon mainly because Pichu has the sheer speed to penetrate Ganon's spacing.

Flyby aerials prevent you from getting grabbed much and even if he gets you to 54 and doesn't finish you off there, it's gonna be insanely hard to kill of such a quick little target.

Against Fox, Ganon has the added advantage of easy edgeguards, but edgeguarding a good Pichu is stupid as hell.

Imo, it's like CF vs Ganon with Fox combos.

That's my experience with Ganon vs Pichu at least.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Oh yeah that's one of the reasons it's fun to main both pichu and the ice climbers if they chain throw pichu I will laugh at them and swich to ice climbers even if I don't like chain throwing it's funny that they would be that gay, I,ll gay you 4x as hard and the sheik ice climber match-up is pretty even.

I am not creavite at all when it comes to getting back on as many ideas as I get I can't think of S*** to do with pichu's wall jump,B,fair,side-B and his up-B that's goes 256 ways. I thought of the fair to beat some stuff but It should be easy to think up stuff with as many things going for pichu when recovering like the NO lag thing. And you can't really juggle a smart gannon as pichu he will down-B you and you can understand from there why it won't work IF they are smart.

The people who would just pick up sheik for a gay win I think they should be treated like ice climbers who just want grabs. Which wouldn't know about because their aren't many. and if I fought me as ice climbers I would just to de-synce and wavesmash, and never use my 2nd jump for juggleing and waveland the way they are DIing

I saw the title name and no pichu isn't fair here are some johns I use.

1. man I have a moded controller or something man cause I won
2.fair and dair when I try to di with the c-stick
3.Pichu has more taunts than me
4.veitnam like mindgames
5. I missed at picking fox
6.random picking sucks doesn't it.
7. Sorry but, this is a pichu banned tourment
8.No fair pichu flashed me when he used d-tilt(they go to slow-mo, gaint melee to try it again)
9.Dude your a jerk pichu vs pichu is like 10-90 you douche
10. hey you unpuged my controller

 

[wool]

Pichu vs Ganon is pretty bad. Sure you can get some massive combos for a bit, but that retreating fair is REALLY annoying. Obviously Pichu vs Sheik is much worse, but Ganon is pretty darn bad too. Plus if you get shield grabbed by ganon you're pretty much dead at 60%. And I never knew about 54% chaingrab, thanks ICG. Nice john list BTW haha

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

What are you talking about? 54% to what? I haven,t been able to play for 2 weeks so i,m sad and I am running off of stat I know and stuff. I wish people could give me advice on how to be better as pichu, but sadly the fact remains they can't so I must work off of myself

 

[wool]

You said Ganon can chaingrab Pichu to 54% (i believe).
I never knew that lol

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Oh yeah but only because pichu has a big head, he can't chain throw pikachu for that long I think to maybe 23% for pikachu But i can't remember right now. But I,m confused a lot lately. Woah have you ever forgotten who you are like your like holy carp I forgot everything about me and then I remembered then it's like woah. But yeah how's your pichu coming along?

 

[wool]

Haha I get those feelings sometimes.

My pichu is getting alright, but I am going to main Pika. I just find it easier to approach with Pika, and although Pika doesn't have as much "agility" as Pichu, the range on his attacks are better which makes it easier for me to handle. Pichu is my 2nd string though If I am against Falco I choose Pichu over Pika. His crouch makes it hard for average Falcos to SHL him (although Pichu is immobile while crouching, you can let go of it right before the Falco does a shffl dair, WD back, and hopefully punish . That's generally my gameplan. Plus Pichu's dsmash hurts Falco a LOT, since it sends them diagonally downwards, ya know. Also I mess up those tailspike-edgeguards as Pika sometimes, and against Falco I shouldn't give him a chance to get back on stage. A jump out nair or an fsmash or even an ftilt as Pichu will **** Falco's recovery.

Pretty much every other character though I'll prefer to be Pika

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Pichu is more for people who like mindgames and a better grab game. But pichu could jump between them at least I would think, I haven't fought but one falco and I wasn't really camped and wasn't as good as I am now before looked at just pichu. so yeah I need to get more rides. But at least you try.

I haven't been able to play for 2 weeks so I,m not 100% about this but I think pichu could camp platforms but not like sheik. you know how large of a sheild pichu has right? we could stand on the top platform and shield their attacks and up-B out of your sheild and punish the midair lag like fox goes to upair you and you up-B when you can and grab him or whatever. again I haven't played for some time but this gets rid if the fact they outrange you a lot. But I don't think it would be useful for anyone but pichu, so it's just another tatic

 

[Tamoo]

Hey guys, I recently found this new technique for jiggs that I think can also be applied to pichu too, as pichu's crouch is rather short. Thought Id post in this thread because it seems like the most active one atm, and wool's mention of pichu's crouch caught my eye .

Becuase I forgot one quite important thing about this, im gonna make a new post with full details of this powershield, with colour and everything :o

Powershielding Made Easy

Campy falco's always get to everyone eh? Well characters like jiggs can get round this with ease.

Method:

1) When you see the falco start to sh, crouch.

2) the laser will come towards you, wait for it to pass directly above you.
*The whole laser counts as a hitbox, so it is all powershieldable, so wait for any part of the animation to be above you*

3) Now, you have to let go of crouch, and in the time between getting up and getting hit by the laser, you have to shield.
*The whole shield allows you to powershield, not just the area between you and the edge of the shield*

If you do not let go of crouch, you actually light shield before fullshielding, which does not allow you to powershield.

Applications:

Close range: Wavedash oos to grab is very useful here, as they generally do not expect the grab coming at all, and hence, free uthrow to rest. Or just throw falco off the edge if he's close to the edge. Maybe go for a surprise rest, there are a lot of possibilities as falcos are generally thrown off by their blasters getting reflected back at them.

Long range: Camp the **** out of that spammy *****!!#

Might even make a little video to go along with this hehe

Hopefully, this can help all of you on your falco game, it may be quite hard to get the hang of, but at least jiggs has something remotely technical now

Now its up to your pichu boards to find something useful to do with this, happy experimenting!

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I was thinking about this to and the fact pichu has a huge shield it makes this even better. ha ha pikachu users (just kidding).

All I know this in general will kill falco's approach and meant cause a drop in falco's game kind of like chain throws and edge guard tactics.

I haven't been able to play for 2 weeks so I,m not 100% about this but I think pichu could camp platforms but not like sheik. you know how large of a sheild pichu has right? we could stand on the top platform and shield their attacks and up-B out of your sheild and punish the midair lag like fox goes to upair you and you up-B when you can and grab him or whatever. again I haven't played for some time but this gets rid if the fact they outrange you a lot. But I don't think it would be useful for anyone but pichu, so it's just another tactic

 

[wool]

Wow that's pretty cool.
I'm wondering how hard it would be and what the timing is though (my falco opp won't be coming for a while! ). If a laser is coming towards a Pichu (at mid height let's say) and you duck, you have to release crouch and then shield. So does that mean that Pichu would be standing for a short time? But then wouldn't the laser hit Pichu before you can pull up the shield? Or is it that if you do it fast enough you can pull your shield before Pichu stands up. I'm dying to test this out. Thanks Tamoo.

 

[TresChikon]

Most Falco's I'm around know the Jigg's matchup so well that they can laser her even while she's crouching.

You should just learn the PS timing instead of vouching for a handicap.

 

[Tamoo]

Wool: Basically, pichu will not stand up on frame1, but instead take a couple of frames to stand up. Its in these frames that the shield has to come up. How many frames you have to release down and press shield depends fully on the laser height, so you could only have 1 frame. Pichu’s shield is rather large so although he doesn’t have the lowest crouch, there is a lotta shield to powershield with.

Also, yeah falco’s will start shl so low that jiggs wont be able to powershield like this, but there’s no point learning the powershield timing for jiggs cos she has a pitiful shield where her body takes up like the whole shield. Instead, if falco’s start to do this, its a good thing because you can start going in for short hop approaches so no matter what, your taking quite an integral part of falco’s gameplay away by neutralising his lasers

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Man this could put a stop to a lot of campers, I mean about it look at sheik he can duck under a lot of stuff, anyone who trys to camp gets camped back twice as hard, and it is prove you should never spam something people figured out how to get out of ice climber chain throws, people figured out how to punish marth for sweet spotting the edge, ice climbers figured out how to edge guard people who come from below, punishment to shield grabbers better shield breaking tactics, and the list goes on and i argee with Tres this will lead to that

Like in hide and go seek your best hiding spot should never be known and you should never abuse it.

This tactic should lead to shine SHL which in theory would be somewhat slow but would punish you for power shielding. And I predict these characters will fall at lest some how the metagames been going :samus, links, dr. mario , falco,ice climbers they would rise I think: j-Puff, sheik, and maybe a few other not very technical people might rise, but I think this might be the perfect time for all the(like 3) pichu players to step up, the fall in camping will happen and pichu has a huge shield and can even run under samus's missles 70% of the time run, duck, sheild, and follow up vs campers pichu should never have to worry about campers again even if they weren't a problem before and I bet their edge guard will change a little.

That's why some ideas for pichu I have I don't want to talk about.

Good news it turns out one of my good friends likes melee and he mains falco/sheik he thinks brawl is to easy(lol sheik player) and knows ATs like wavedashing, so I will be able to understand the falco match-up. And someone esle WTFed at the fact I don't like brawl

 

[wool]

Hahaha "all Pichuplayers (like 3)" Pichu all the way!

That's awesome ICG! I am trying to get some of my friends to learn how to WD and other technical stuff, but they don't seem as committed as I am

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Take it slow, the best way sometimes is the safer slower way, I can't get a job because of my brothers so I was trying to sell coke .50 a can(I,m not by anymeans a greedly person), but I can't so F*** I guess i will just shove pouchs in the winter weekends. (money for pound4)

I wonder if I will have a mental break down there? If so I try to cover it up, but i,m kindof bipolar(it would make sences) and I lie about my feelings the only time I couldn't cover up was at school and everyone was afraid and I was crying and laughing and just going nuts talking about the number of days in the year and refered to me as The Hodapp.

Sorry i,m random as they get. Can you tell me some things you only do this just pichu or just pikachu I,m trying to dig up details.

 

[wool]

Do you mean how I play as Pichu? If so:

Im not a creative guy at all TBH. My approaches are just the main three that are known:
1) full hop b, chase
2) shffl or fhffl nair
3) shffl or fhffl uair (which I only knew was effective after you told me , so THANKS ICG!)

That's basically how I approach. Since it's so limited and I'm pretty sure everyone knows about them, i tend not to approach much as Pichu. I try and bait a LOT. Like run at them, WD back, punish. Or run backwards, make them chase (as long as they aren't a spacie) and WD forwards. Sometimes (although kind of risky) I double jump hoping they will bait the first jump and then punish. Like you say, to play Pichu is all about the mindgames (and edgeguarding lol )

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I thought he was pure tech skill, I guess I f***ed up. But I,m glad up-air approach works for you. But i resencely added marth to my playlist list(i,m a charcter hoe) and I really love how smooth he is with his DDing and wding really that's all I like about him, I am trying to get my pichu like that just smooth and it just feels right.

I meant what's different between your pikachu and pichu? I stilll feel that getting on the top platfrom and and sheilding their attack to up-B follow would be sweet

 

[wool]

Haha I main a different character everyday I can never settle on one lol. Ya Marth is really smooth. But I prefer Roy just because he's not as weird lol.

Hmm, my Pikachu is more spazzy. I sort of freak out with Pikachu, spamming nairs and rising uairs. I don't grab as much with Pikachu (since I believe he has half(?) the grab range of Pichu) so I look for any chance for those rising uairs. Pretty much the reason why I prefer Pika is because of the rising uair. Against fast fallers you can do a uair then a nair, against mid you can do uair then dair, against floaties uair then a uair. I like the rising uair because if I miss my nair then I can follow up with a rising uair so it's pretty safe. Pichu can do a rising uair but you have to be realllly close to them, in which case i'd just prefer to pivot grab or something.

My Pichu is a lot more cautious. Like all I try and do is bait them and punish. I also approach though with uairs and nairs and it helps loads that Pichu's L-cancel is the shortest in the game I tend to grab a lot with Pichu too (his grab game ROCKS). uthrow->usmash, uthrow->uair->dair, dthrow-dsmash, etc. Possibilites are endless. Umm, that's pretty much the differences in how I play.

Oh and is Pichu's wavedash longer than Pika's? I don't know if it is longer or not because the size difference probably decieves me, but I feel that it is longer than Pika's by a bit.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

pikachu's is a little longer, it would be amazing if pichu had a wavedash a little better than falcon's(up-B thing) yeah he has half pikachu's is much worse other than his up-smash and up-air spike. Who do you win more as? WHy? as in chain throws or what ever. I,m thinking pikachu because you don't have to worry as much and a better recovery, really pichu's grab game,size,and mindgames should help a fair amount. And is do you only pick one place as pikachu or as pichu?

If i make it to pound4 and and you make it... I want to Veitnam mindgame you pichu style.

 

[wool]

I win more with Pikachu probably, but it isn't saying much since the people I play are really bad, and so I have no idea what it would be like in a real tournament against good people lol. You're right, it's mostly because of the recovery and he isn't as light. But yeah, Pichu definitely has his strengths. I can't really say for sure why I win because of the people I play, but if I go to Pound 4 I should definitely be able to tell. As for the place, I prefer FD for Pichu and for Pikachu either YS or FD. FD is just my favorite place and I don't know why but I get some boost when I play there lol. For Pika I like YS because I can get a lot of uairs in. If I play with Pichu there, I would focus more on uairs but Pichu's uair isn't as good as Pika's so I don't want to waste time doing uairs over and over again. Plus I tend to get a lot more grabs in on FD, and Pichu's grab rocks.

Haha yes we must play friendlies if I make it too dude, it would be awesome

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Funny my favorite place for pichu is battlefield other his really really bad sweetspot for up-B I think it's pretty good.

If you fight bad people read them punish them mindgame them they might learn. Unless these are the people who just picked it up , set-up them up with marth(easy) it will teach you how to approach mindgame wise. random side-B from pichu is good sometimes

 

[wool]

That makes sense actually I will teach them to use Marth. He is the easiest to use IMO anyway. I forgot about battlefield lol, Ya that's Pichu's place. Up-b cancels like everywhere haha. I just prefer flat places though.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

marth is very smooth and once they are pretty good encoureage them play as lower people, because everyone ice climber and lower need to work on their metagame. yeah the lack of platfroms let you work with his other B moves much better one thing I love about pichu is he can work with or without platfromsplatfroms kill off some things like fully chacged side-B and B approach but open up up-B stuff and other stuff really I wish there was a thread to talk about his stages and junk It's like picking candy.

Battlefeild is green apple. poke floats could be good for him. rainbow ridw is useless for up-B in about everyway. I love FoD you can use your wall jumps for recovery and save youreslf 3% sometimes, big stages let you use your B moves more other than Down-B smaller ones help your juggle, by cutting off were they can go and down-B makes a better wall, and their chain throws won't last as long. Relly all the stage re good even the ones with small blastlines but you have great killing power. The worse stage I think would be a place with no walls to wall jump with, a really high ceiling, short blastlines ,short platfroms to low to work with and it's really small. and a bunch a shy guys, a rigged barrel, 2 clap traps, and a bomb.

Wait that's jungle japes, I thought it was just alright.

 

[wool]

Haha ya platforms definitely don't hurt Pichu (and can help loads with up-b cancels) and stages w/o platforms like FD don't hurt Pichu either. It's kind of a win win he doesn't have any bad neuturals. I absolutely cannot play on mute city with him though. It's suicide if I do his lightness makes me 70% of the time try and recover and not actually fight, and recovering with him adds percent so its not good Any tips on that stage?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Really it's being used to it I hate DK64 and I love the samus stages, oh yeah pichu never gets hit by the missles on the fox stages due to his size so damaging stages are legit too.

I don't fight on that stage much I know at one part your chain throw is a LITTLE longer the up hill part. All i know is I like to throw bombs on the stage and wait for car to blow up it's funny when there are no more cars. If it's really bad don't go and learn the stage more I admit I don't know much about it, other than it looks like a good pichu place most lagless up-B, hard to chain throw here, a flexible recovery to come around different ways, but pichu is small and the cars may not see him and well it's not good to be road kill.

I was going nuts today not being able to listen to "let there be more than light" by pink floyd that song is more than many bands.

Why do try as pichu? He hurts himself,light,bad range, it's he beyond useable? Understand my meaning

 

[wool]

I just think that Pichu is definitely better than people think and when I master up-b I think I will be able to show them. He's also just awesome haha. But his speed is what attracts me the most. I like using fast characters (or characters which can be fast by wavedashing (like Luigi)).

BTW I think Pichu's bair is amazing. Against some characters a rising uair to a dair doesn't work, but you can instead bair and just follow where they DI. And since it lasts FOREVER it will always hit and it has decent knockback. Approaching with bair seems pretty stupid though, but if they get baited and you are facing the opposite direction, a bair to tech chase is pretty effective. What are your thoughts?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I always thought bair was a smashed down nair with with less damage and doesn't get weaker as it goes same knockback as nair's 1st frame.

I always wished I could find something for it and I wish it had more knockback than nair. Um really I don't use bair much but It could be good for edge gaurd the kockback doesn't decrease the longer it lasts like nair so you have a lower chance of getting hurt too. I used to think for people who spamed the crap out of nair they could use bair when nair decayed

 

[wool]

Yeah a running bair while the opponent is recovering (so you'll hit them when your off stage) is pretty effective since you can start it early and like you said, it doesn't decrease the knockback. But if you don't start it early you'll probably die haha due to it lasting soo long.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I wrote out this amazing mindgame idea but I don't truth people. And it is useful for pikachu too.

Really like I said I have 20 pages of ideas that worked in battles the effects may vary but they are all legit idea. And I don't want you to know before I mind **** you if I make it to pound 4.

 

[wool]

Hahaha epic Pichu dittos

Well write down those ideas somewhere, so you don't forget them

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I do, I just don't trust people. They could figure out a counter mindgame to f*** with me.

 

[j3ly]

i didn't read any of this so i hope that what i say isnt here already

one use is if comobing someone up the platforms, as your comming down to the top platform, instead of another uair use the fair and cancel it onto the top platform -> Usmash

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

legit idea, I don't know how long or short of time it took for you to think of that but yeah I like you alreadly I bet you can do great things with mario if your mind is good. Any other ideas or anything for pichu?

I wonder what pichu can do with dair on the platforms? he can hit sheik,marth,roy,m2,zedla,peach,bowser,gannon, on battlefeild and other places. maybe dair to fair

 

[j3ly]

im messin around on bf at the moment, on cf - dair onto platform -> fall through platform uair's etc. is pichu the most platform needy char in the game? i would ban fd if i ever would play him

also i don't see why fast fall through/off a platform into fair -> usmash isnt used

edit: lol 352 cpu cf kills, 84 sd's

:s

 

[wool]

fair-> usmash is REALLY hard to get off. you can get shield grabbed out of it, since usmash isnt too fast (hits on 9th frame), whereas ftilt hits at frame 5, but you can also get away with a utilt/dtilt (which hits on frame 7). Getting grabbed as Pichu is really bad so you should really only try that combo against people who dont shield grab much.

Also you cant really generalize by saying i would ban FD. FD is good/bad against some characters. Like against Falco i love playing on FD, since platforms help him more than they help you. if you learn the timing of powershielding (and can do it >1/5 times (which isnt hard, takes like 30 minutes to get that timing)) falcos shouldnt be too much of a problem. But against most characters, I prefer platforms as Pichu. And against some, i would have to ban FD because of chain grabs (sheiks arent fun).

I played a bunch today on battlefield and found some cool stuff. a fall through platform then back on fair->ftilt then follow their DI with a dair/nair works pretty well. If they shield the fair then go for a grab, which I think is worth the 4% gained from the attack. I really like the fair->ftilt and if they are at high enough percents/are floaties you can do a FH jolt and run after it.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

crazy laughs people really care I can't understand that for some reason and I always crazy laugh when I see someone cares I always expect them to be some kind of supernoob but you aren't wool. I don't know i,ve "got toys in my attic".

Yeah pichu has no bad stages but some disadvances on some. like yoshi's story is great for gimps and upwards kills and I like the platforms sometimes. flaw small(good and bad stops camping and running around like a madman) and the low blastlines.

FD is good I like the blast lines and the wall, lets you do things with down-B long chain throws but you lose your platform tricks and it's just one of the times I don't care for FD it's really good but there is much better battlefield I think it's safe to say is pichu's best place and I think pikachu's too but he could recover more on other stages.

And something I noticed the people with great big recoverys are very flexible stage wise. If pichu's recovery sucked I would say FoD all day.

I really don't use f-tilt ever but I should great for some edge gaurd and stuff. I prefer d-tilt how do you feel about d-tilt vs f-tilt

 

[wool]

Yeah Pichus recovery helps him for all stages.

hmm dtilt vs ftilt. well obviously the main difference is that ftilt is slightly faster, but has much less range than dtilt. in normal combat (not edgeguarding or doing combos) i never use ftilt, because they would literally have to be on top of you for that to hit lol (thats why i do it only after fair). i use ftilt all the time for edgeguarding though, and it works especially well on spacies.

dtilt is much more useful since you can crouch cancel and do it really fast (since you dont have to move your hands/fingers). Like a shffl fair by roy cc-ed to a dtilt then tech chase with a nair or dair if hes off stage seems pretty good. Also WDing back to avoid a shffl aerial (but they are too far to do a grab, but too close for a decent nair) is when i use dtilt. other than that i dont. ive never tried using it for edgeguarding. is it effective?