Phoenix Wright Mafia [GAME OVER!]

[KevinM]

Thanks for reading my like request Gheb everyone is ****ing skimming?

 

[KevinM]

Also

Like Unvote

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Achtung baby! ich habe etwas für euch!

VOTE COUNT

KevinM [3] : Macman, Marshy, Mentosman
Not Voting: Gheb, Swords, Pierre, Truth, Riddle, Rockin, Cacti, KevinM

deadline is the last minute of 11/29
takes 6/11 to lynch

 

[mentosman8]

@Truth: I'm still suspicious of Swords, however after me lookin into Kevin during the night, things stood out about him enough he became one of my higher suspects. I'll respond specifically to some other things that were said shortly, I have a couple things to get done first though.

 

[Cacti]

can you be more specific?

People like Swords have completely switched from attacking me yesterday to thinking Kevin is scummy today, and I also think that I got the feeling that everyone thought that Riddle was scum on twilight yesterday, and now they are all voting KevinM.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

it was only gheb and kevin who said anything about thinking riddle was scummy during twilight.

i honestly dont know what to say about swords. I can't see him being scum, but he is scummy as ****, so I can see him being indy.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, why are you not at all suspicious of Kevin? Do you not agree with any of the points that mentos brought up?

What exactly do you expect me to say? I'm not the kind of player who likes repeating the same old for the 3rd time. Yes, mentos PbPA has lots of merit. I don't feel like posting a point that a couple of other players have hammered home already. Makes it look like I'm parroting (something I hate).

As for Kevin being suspicious: Yes and no. Most of what mentos said is true but to me the issue with Kevin seems to be the attitude of his posts, which to me is more a indytell than a scumtell (kinda like Hando in Spidey) moreso than him doing/saying something downright scummy. While it's true that he posted lots of fluff yesterDay there are also some posts of him that have merit (even mentos himself pointed it out), like his explanation on Chaco (although that looks more like a dumbtell than a scumtell). D2 has just started and I really don't want it to be as tunneled as it was in Simpsons Mafia - Tunnelvision can be really dangerous. I really want to discuss other options as well (coming soon).

If anything, he should get policy lynched for self voting. Theres honestly no reason for him to do such a thing. And is just a dumb appeal to emotion gambit that doesn't help town at all. And not only that gives contradicting images as to what his take on this entire game is.

This is true I guess and I don't like self-voting but I can see where he's coming from. I did the same thing in Tourney Sleepover when everybody talked about policy lynching me and I used AtoE's too. If anything it makes him a VI more than scum imo.

As for policy lynching him - OK, if we can't find anybody better but I find it distressing that you already talk about a lynch this early in the day. D1 has been fairly productive and I don't want to let it go to waste by tunneling like that.

So you want to 'look' at me, marshy, and mentos for being on Kevin's wagon? Is there any particular reason why? Something that seems scummmy about us in particular?

That is in case Kevin flips town/indy. Obviously, I wouldn't if Kev flips scum but assuming he doesn't I would take a closer look at the wagon. Both you and mentos were suspicious to more than one player D1. If you push a ML like that I think it's not unlikely that one of you guys could be scum.

Yes, pierre was fishing for a nameclaim. But it's not like he was trying to hide that. Why is it a bigdeal to ask for a nameclaim? It's not a roleclaim. Do you think mafia would go out on a limb and ask someone to nameclaim?

The second part is WIFOM. I could imagine that scum would do it though, even if it's a slip/mistake/whatever. I wouldn't ignore that option. It's true that roleclaim =/= nameclaim but I still see the possibility that you could guess a possible PR from a nameclaim without actually requesting it. In fact, it could be a decent cover.

Thanks for reading my like request Gheb everyone is ****ing skimming?

Sorry

I'll post my suspects/lynch options/reasons soon.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Thoughts on Riddle + other suspicions:

In the early stage of D1 there was already a soft-wagon against Riddle based on this post:

The whole argument about the GIFs and Macman's scumslips is getting us nowhere. Pierre, the GIFs clearly don't mean anything and there are very good reasons (which MAcman has already said) for Macman not to post his common scumtells. Macman, I honestly don't think Pierre is scummy for his actions just new. Remember, this is only his second mafia game (I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong) and in the first one he only lasted one day before he was night killed. Pierre I think is honestly trying to scumhunt and just picking out things that he thinks have importance but really don't.

Good job getting us out of RVS though guys.

Emphasis mine.
As you can see it's fairly obvious that Riddle was contradicting himself. The discussion led nowhere even though it help us end the RVS very quickly? That's actually part of the reason D1 was so productive! Why would you call ending the RVS going "nowhere"? Looks like a vague attempt to discredit legit discussion.
A mini-BW followed with Marshy and Chacin placing votes on him. The only thing that kept the wagon from becoming bigger was the fact that the Cacti wagon emerged (with Riddle being one of the main forces behind it for most of D1).

His 282 also stands out to me. It's his attempt to make a case against Macman. The timing of this post is very awkward to say the least. It seems as if he couldn't convince anybody to stay on the Cacti wagon so he tries to incriminate Macman with an even less convincing case at a time everybody was hopping either the swords or Truth BW.

His 342 looks like a very weak and non-commiting way to relativate the things he said also fluffed with some other dumb stuff.

Overall he has contributed very little most of D1. He has never taken a strong stance against anybody except Cacti. What were his thoughts on mentos when he was under suspicion? What happened to his suspicion against Macman? Even his hammer against Sinz looks like a very sheepish move as crazy as it sounds. Kinda like "oh well, I'm town but imma hammer him anyway because there's no plurality rule!". Nevermind the fact that we had a whole day left and that Sinz still could've answered questions for us.
He eagerly seemed to avoid those "disconnections" Omni kept talking about most of the time - he rarely took a stance on what was actually happening in the game. Instead he made some dubious cases and spend most of the time arguing with Cacti. If he was mentioned as scummy he usually kept quiet for a while.

Those are my main issues with Riddle. The question "Scum or dumb" is omnipresent when I read his posts. Personally, I'm pretty sure it's the former but I can't do much more to prove it. Counterpoints:

- Riddle often plays like that. He played like obvscum in FFVII and was actually the Vig. I found Riddle to be scummy in every game he played so far. Maybe I'm just too tunneled?
- My scumtails are usually weaksauce. Look at Simpsons D2 to see it in great detail.

In his 432 Omni also calls Riddle "dumb or scum" and Omni was town. I think Omni's opinion can be taken at face value, which makes me feel that my case against Riddle might have merit.

Vote Riddle for now.

After reading through what Omni said I get some other interesting points, which leads me to another suspect of mine: Pierre the Scarecrow. I really didn't think too much about it but after re-reading I get Traitor-ish vibes from him. This is because he speculated a lot about characters and voiced opinions on players, which gives mafia info.

In his 206 he takes a clear stance against nameclaims but now prematurely asks Kevin to nameclaim before the town members have even discussed all options? Pierre basically tells us and the mafia in that, which characters he thinks have PRs. Kinda like "Hey scum, those guys are PRs! NK them if they're claimed!".

His 275 is a textbook example of traitor play. Hand all information on players to the mafia in a nicely sized post, which covers every single player. The first mentioned players are of course the "obvtowns", the trustworthy players. This is basically like saying "Hey scum, these guys are trustworthy and look like town! I'd be a good idea to NK them!"
I've seen a post like that before, when I was reading through the DG archives - it was Scav, who posted something very similar D1 in High School Mafia. Guess what? - He was the traitor! Overall I think my FoS against him is justsified.

As for other suspects:

KevinM: I feel like a lot of the suspicions against him are coming from his (lack of) attitude D1 and his one-liners. Understandable but is it a scumtell? I'm not sure. He made a couple of decent posts and a couple of useless ones. He pushed the Sinz lynch. OK. Who didn't? Macman is like the only one who didn't and it doesn't say anything. Scum often tries to protect doomed townies to gain credibility. I think him pushing the Sinz lynch is a nulltell.
Self voting D2 is another story though. I get him more as Indy than scum right now. I don't think we should focus only on him toDay - I'd rather use him as our fall back lynch if we find nothing better.

Swords: I'm much cooler with a swords lynch toDay. His lack of input is infuriating and his sheepish behaviour is annyoing as well - not to mention that he was blatantly parotting most of the time. If he's town, then he doesn't play like a townie.

Finally: Don't waste the day by tunneling against only few players. That kind of stuff ***** us in Simpsons mafia. It basically gave scum a good opportunity to slip under the radar and advocate a mislynch from a relatively safe position.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

pushing a case != tunneling. Which alot of people seem to think right now.

tbh im still really suspicious of riddle. I just didn't find his vote for sinz suspicious at all and I don't at all like how Kevin was already trying to paint him in a bad light before we even got Sinz flip.

I was thinking that it was weird about how sympathetic you were being with KevinM and I figured it was because you self voted when you felt unnecessarily pressured in Rockins game.

Swords is Swords. He was like this in paranoiafia and flipped town. That plus him being disconnected from the rest of the cast makes me of course very hesitant to ever want to lynch him.

Pierre has continued to be pretty town to me. The nameclaim thing that I brought up still bugs me about him though.

Kevin, now that swords posted what you asked of him, what do you take from it? Who are your suspicions?

K, I've read Mentos's giant post, but I don't think I absorbed it real well, so I may be wrong on some things.

I'm not really understanding the case on KevinM right now. So he posted a lot of one-liner fluff and had some contradictions? He has also been playing anti-town lately, correct me if I am wrong on any of this.

Uh... what?

how are contradictions not scummy? It can sometimes represent a player just taking stances that seem to fit their scummy agenda at the time. The case on Kevin is more that he would randomly push/be ok with lynches without explaining why. And his wanting to lynch people came at very opportune times. Like he wanted to lynch truth out of nowhere once truth actually started becoming a legit lynch candidate d1 and then the same with sinz at the end of the day. that and the fact that he instantly discredits any arguments presented against him without actually tackling the issues brought up.

Mentos/Marshy, other top suspicions? Mentos, were you suspicious of KevinM at all day 1? Did you reread the thread night 1?

Rockin, we need alootttt more from you. The only reason you stopped really being a strong suspect to me was cuz Kevin was shedding alot of suspicion on you. But even if he flips mafia, you aren't cleared. So you need to get in the game and really start letting us know what you think about ****.

Riddle, we need to hear from you as well. Gheb called your *** out, defense? Who are your suspicions?

So basically everyone who hasn't been blatant with who they suspect need to start taking stances. Stop reacting to **** and start doing ****.

What do people in general think about riddle?

 

[KevinM]

Like my lynch pool right now is,

Swords
Mentos

 

[mentosman8]

A little bit of OMGUS now eh kevin? I seem to recall you saying yesterday that the only people who thought I deserved a vote were Marshy and Mac, and now that I've posted suspicion of you I'm in your lynch pool. Give me some reasons since you said that to find me scummy or it's sraight up OMGUS.

Mac, I'll respond to your questions after I get off work and have time for a full response

 

[#HBC | Mac]

forgot to ask b4.

Gheb, what about Kevin makes him seem indy rather than scum?

 

[KevinM]

A little bit of OMGUS now eh kevin? I seem to recall you saying yesterday that the only people who thought I deserved a vote were Marshy and Mac, and now that I've posted suspicion of you I'm in your lynch pool. Give me some reasons since you said that to find me scummy or it's sraight up OMGUS.

Mac, I'll respond to your questions after I get off work and have time for a full response

rofl give me your reasons of being like suspicious of me or I write it off as OMGUS, good play, we both know I'm not that kind of player to be baited by empty threats.

Nice of you to actually play today but it doesn't take a genius to coast through all of D1 and then hop on the bandwagon of two of the most stubborn players and then do a reaching post by post analysis.

Like seriously?

Town is letting someone dominate the discussion that coasted all of D2. And like wishywashy never had an opinion for himself Swords is given a free pass.

I'm telling you that you guys are wrong, *shrugs* I'm not going to continue to press the argument. And I'm not like claiming anything Pierre, so go back to trying to play mafia without the relying on flavor.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

rofl give me your reasons of being like suspicious of me or I write it off as OMGUS, good play, we both know I'm not that kind of player to be baited by empty threats.

Nice of you to actually play today but it doesn't take a genius to coast through all of D1 and then hop on the bandwagon of two of the most stubborn players and then do a reaching post by post analysis.

Like seriously?

Town is letting someone dominate the discussion that coasted all of D2. And like wishywashy never had an opinion for himself Swords is given a free pass.

While Mentos's most recent post was dumb, you never ever state your reasons for lynching person A. Your only exception was when you gave your reasons for voting Chaco. On top of that, your lynch pool has been fluctuating the entire game.

I'm telling you that you guys are wrong, *shrugs* I'm not going to continue to press the argument. And I'm not like claiming anything Pierre, so go back to trying to play mafia without the relying on flavor.

this part was just OMGUS.

So far, i think Kevin is our best lynch for today. Vote: Kevin This should put him at L-2.

 

[Cacti]

Contradictions not scummy? It can sometimes represent a player just taking stances that seem to fit their scummy agenda at the time. The case on Kevin is more that he would randomly push/be ok with lynches without explaining why. And his wanting to lynch people came at very opportune times. Like he wanted to lynch truth out of nowhere once truth actually started becoming a legit lynch candidate d1 and then the same with sinz at the end of the day. that and the fact that he instantly discredits any arguments presented against him without actually tackling the issues brought up.

I did not say that contradictions are not scummy, I asked if it was part of the case as others have said stuff about contradictions, and I was not sure if I understood it or not. If that is the case against KevinM, I see how that is scummy (lynching people at opportune times), but Swords has been doing this too. How can you just dismiss him doing this because of meta, while you do not dismiss Kevin's random pushing and being ok with lynches when I'm pretty sure that's what he usually does.

Also, I still do not see how Swords is disconnected from the rest of the cast. I could easily see some people like Riddle or Rockin be scum with him, as they have not really pushed a lynch towards him; Riddle said that he fosed Swords and me at the same time once, but when I told him to state the reasons for these, he only gave reasons for me. Rockin, while riding the Swords bandwagon for the whole D1, is someone plausible that could be scum with Swords if Swords was scum. The Swords wagon was shot down halfway through D1 by a couple of people who did not advocate a swords lynch, and it would have been perfectly safe to stay on.

Also, when someone's meta is that they always act scummy, I'd really dismiss that entirely, as that would tell you that if he is scummy, then he's just acting himself. But that doesn't help us at all, does it? It would help more if you told us what traits Swords has that make people think he is scummy.

Vote: Swords

He's sheeping and not helping so much that even if he's town, it might help us if he's gone, and his flip will get reads on the people advocating for his lynch/not advocating for his lynch D1, as I think that there was a clear boundary between people wanting/not wanting to lynch Swords, with not much switching sides.

 

[Cacti]

Also, it's not OMGUS if you explain your vote well. It's really not a very good scumtell unless the player blatantly just voted the other person for the sake of voting them and then tried to cover it up badly when under pressure for OMGUSing.

 

[KevinM]

Like swords its good to have a lynch pool that fluctuates.

Your whole last post was garbage and its obvious you're just sheeping.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

While Mentos's most recent post was dumb, you never ever state your reasons for lynching person A. Your only exception was when you gave your reasons for voting Chaco. On top of that, your lynch pool has been fluctuating the entire game.

why is the bolded scummy?

 

[KevinM]

Because he like has no idea what he's talking about and don't post again mr. 2222

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Swords is Swords. He was like this in paranoiafia and flipped town.

He was like that in TS Mafia too and flipped scum.

Mac, I'll respond to your questions after I get off work and have time for a full response

Eh, I have a question for you too: What happened to the whole Cacti vs Swords issue from yesterDay? You clearly said that it was not TvT and you said so more than just once. Which one of those two is more scummy to you and why? You still think it's scum infected?

forgot to ask b4.

Gheb, what about Kevin makes him seem indy rather than scum?

A lot of the stuff he posted yesterDay was one-line and there's a lot of fluff in it but I don't think KevinscuM would play that. Less experienced players generally seem to dislike his playstyle because he often attacks them early in the game and he often gets a lot of hate by them. However, I don't think he'd intentionally play that useless for a whole Day if he was scum. That's like him saying "Attention please, I posts lots of fluff!!!" Can't see an experienced player like him doing that as scum even with all the WIFOM involved. As indy on the other hand it's not always a bad idea to be suspicious because it can help you not getting NKed and his "I don't care"-like attitude isn't exactly what scum would play in my book. Kevindy makes more sense to me than KevinscuM at this point.
If he doesn't flip scum I will be very suspicious of his wagoners regardless. Scum can't tell a townie from an indy so they wouldn't know against whom they advocate the mislynch. I'd be happier with Riddle/Swords gone today. Swords recent post are infuriating just to look at and I don't feel like the way he plays is in towns best interest at all.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i think that if one of kevin/riddle is scum the other is cleared. i don't see scumbuddies saying "MAN MY PARTNER SURE IS SUSPICIOUS" in twilight like that. i'll look into riddle and try to reread d1 this weekend

 

[mentosman8]

Ok, so first and foremost(don't have much time), my other top suspect is Swords still Mac. This also answers Gheb's question, but I didn't feel TvT vibes from the argument between him and Cacti, and he's the more suspicious to me.

Swords, how is my post about Kevin essentially saying yesterday that he didn't think I deserved a vote, then today voting me after I make a case about him being scummy/omgus dumb, yet the next part of the post you quote, which has NOTHING to do with the meaning of OMGUS fit enough for you to say it is? I don't get it.

And Mac, I did have some smaller suspicions of Kevin yesterday, and I did some looking into him during night and felt that he was the best case to push start of D2.

I believe that's all the questions, and I gotta go to work now.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i mentioned kevin and riddle in 701 because they're both near the top of my list. it's a kevin/riddle thing

Those are my main issues with Riddle. The question "Scum or dumb" is omnipresent when I read his posts.

just want to say that you are not alone in this and you took the words right out of my mouth. couldn't agree more so true

unvote kevin vote riddle for now because i think gheb's case has enough merit for a wagon

kevin why no riddle in your lynch pool?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Cacti, beyond swords, who do you think we should look at today and why? Also, what are your thoughts on a name/roleclaim?

 

[KevinM]

Marshy I haven't taken like a close enough look to warrent putting him there, I'll reread.

 

[Cacti]

Macman, I'd be fine with a Riddle lynch also. I think that he could be mafia with swords, as he keeps on stating that Swords is a fos for him, but never does anything about it. He also originally vote me for parroting in his 342 post, which Gheb mentioned, while he has not done anything about Sword's parroting, even though it is seemingly a scummy thing in his book.

I also agree with Gheb's points against Riddle.

I don't think that a mass name/role claim is really good, as it sounds like that safe claims are the norm here on SWF, and I don't think that it will help us.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Riddle wagon gets no love? I'll switch to Swords if people don't hop on Riddle...

Prods @ Pierre, Truth, Riddle, Rockin and Swords please? Half of the game's gone inactive. Not a good time to do that.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

A mass nameclaim? i don't think it's a good idea yet, maybe later if necessary, but not right now.

Riddle wagon gets no love? I'll switch to Swords if people don't hop on Riddle...

While the riddle wagon has merit, i think KevinM is looking scummy right now. If i have to though i will switch to riddle. Kevin hasn't really tried that hard to defend himself, which makes me think even more that he is scum.

@mentos I was referring to the part of your post where you said

Give me some reasons since you said that to find me scummy or it's straight up OMGUS.

I had no problem with the rest of it.

Going to re-read ASAP.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Been busy today.

Pierre, Rockin, Truth, and Riddle have been prodded

 

[mentosman8]

Swords, the key point of that tied in with earlier in the post. Kevin had said yesterday that only marshy and mac thought I even deserved a vote, then it was after I posted my case on him when he said I was in his lynch pool. If he's going to make a comment like that then go back on it, he better have legit reasons and state them, otherwise it's one of the most clear-cut cases of OMGUS out there.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Alrighty, i've quoted some posts while i was re-reading.....

Yessir. I find Cacti scummy for several reasons:

1) He did not even try to defend himself when he got bandwagoned. Kevin just kind of made the bandwagon fall apart and the game has gone from there.

2) Once he finally does say something about my point about the contradictions he basically said "Oh I guess I didn't read it". My post was like 4 sentences, and he seems like he is just trying to cover up the fact that he actually is just following the crowd.

3) He and Swords have a thing going that I don't really like at all. They're just repeating the same questions back and forth to each other and not answering them satisfactorily. The questions are dumb and the answers are just as dumb. I will give specific examples if asked. This makes Cacti and Swords seem equally scummy but Cacti has other points against him in my book.

I kinda already addressed your other points.

@ Swords

OMGUS = Oh my god you suck, and it is basically just means finding someone suspicious/voting them because they found you suspicious/voted you. It's generally seen as pretty scummy.

Here he just states his suspicions of Cacti. Nothing scummy in this post.

Well, the Sinz fos is slowly dieing, however the swords one is still going strong.

Even though I find both of Cacti's and Sword's behavior somewhat scummy, I'm leaning more onto the swords lynch. It just doesn't seem like he could make up his mind whether he's doing the Cacti lynch to randomly bandwagon, or to actually scumhunt. I'm leaning on the first one. A few of Sword's post contridict themselves. Not to mention he's been more heavily focused on the Cacti lynch instead of defending himself,

So I feel more incline to a Swords lynch then a Cacti one

Vote: SwordsRBroken

Macman, in terms of Pierre's post to yours, I don't know whether to make heads or tails to it. It seems like he was answering your question, but at the same time he may have mistaken your post. I'll have to see another response to it from him in order to see it more clearly.

Okay here he either:

A. Town. He thought i was scum and voted me.
B. Scum. He voted me because i was the most likely lynch at the time.
C. Indy?

This actually convinces me for now. One of my main problems with you was your complete and total lack of defense and this reasoning seems pretty sound. I haven't totally forgetten about you, mosly because of your initial skimming/contradictory play, but you've satisfied me for now.

Unvote

I have to do some re-reading now and find how I think is playing scummily.

He unvotes here, despite that Cacti hadn't entirely answered the questions. Then later, he re-votes cacti for the same reasoning. Cacti hadn't done much else since then, but Riddle just resumed his pursuit of the Cacti lynch.

All right here is my current suspicion:

*Drum roll please*

Macman! Here's why. All game Macman has been posting things with absolutely no explanation at all. Here are some examples:








The second yes is in reference to the question, "Anybody else suspicious to you?"



Every single on of these is the entire post. Macman provides absolutely no reasoning at all for a whole lot of his posts. More than half of his posts are one-liners and he has been nearly useless all game.

Macman seems incredibly scummy providing no reasoning like this and I fell that his play merits my vote.

Vote: Macman

This was incredibly OMGUSy. His case is against Macman's regular play, and Gheb even told him that that was so.

Okay guys. I've rethought my case and here are my thoughts.

1) Macman's accusation about the 'tbqh' is obv weird and I C/P'd every post manually so it wouldn't change with the quote.

2) I was so annoyed/frusturated by the brevity of Macman's post that I misinterpreted it into being scummy.

Macman, I would really appreciate if you would just expand on your logic more in the future. So,

Unvote, FoA (Finger of Annoyance): Macman

Anyways, on to other thoughts. I'm just going to use Pierre's format except not so longwinded...

1. Marshy

Marshy isn't easy to get a read on. He seems to be helpful, but honestly he's too good a player to really now. Right now though I would say town. However, his tunneling on mentos makes me a little bit suspicious. I would really like for Marshy to post more about mentos.

2. Chaco Rockin

Chaco was really vocal about his opinions, but wasn't helpful to town at all. Honestly, this case has been said over and over again. I'm not going to repeat the whole thing just go look at Kevin's post. I don't really have anything new to add.

3. Macman

Macman has a habit of posting one-liners stating his opinion and no explanation. While this isn't necessarily scummy it is quite annoying and makes it harder to argue against/agree with him. He has contributed some good posts though and if he starts posting less one-liners I'll move him up to green.

4. Pierre the Scarecrow

Pierre is obviously contributing plenty but in relatively large intervals and doesn't respond much to other people. This makes it much harder to draw connections between him and other people, and it also translates to him not answering very many questions. He seems to be almost in a game of his own.

5. XACE-K

Xace-K is hardly contributing at all. All he seems to be doing is parroting other people's posts. This seems like he is scum unwilling to lead a bandwagon on to town.

6. Sinz

Sinz is an interesting case. He plays kind of scummily, but I think right now this is just a result of his new-ness. I'm going to give it a bit more time before I post a dfinitive opinion of him.

7. Cacti

Cacti is Cacti. He plays scummily in every single game I've seen him in and this one is no different. There was the bandwagon jumping on me after agreeing with me and then the argument with Swords was also stupid. What really makes him seem scummy to me though his his most recent post connecting me to everyone else who a lot of people find scummy. This post was very clearly, at least to me an attempt by Cacti to restate what many other people have said, and make it seem like his own opinion. He makes a whole long post except if you actually read it all it says is basically "I think Riddle is scum, becaue he is trying to take pressure off of someone" except he says that for like 4 different people.

8. SwordsRbroken

Another interesting case. I've never seen a town Swords play. In TSMafia we lynched him for many of the same things he is doing now, and he flipped maf recruiter. In this game he is a little less wagon happy and is more focussed on Cacti in particular, however I still think he is a definite possibility.

9. Riddle

This is for you to decide.

10. Mentosman

Marshy, who is in the green section right now is obviously very suspicious of him, but he has yet to convince me. I'd like to hear more from Marshy about this.

11. The_Truth

The current largest focus and I can see why. However, Truth still isn't the highest on my scumlist. That spot goes to Cacti still.

12. Gheb_01

Gheb seems to be doing some good questioning and contributing. Nothing he has done is rasing any red or even yellow flags. There isn't much to say about Gheb.

13. KevinM

Kevin is in the same boat as Marshy. He's really hard to get a read off of whether he is town or scum. He is playing the same as he does every game, so there isn't much to say.

Anyways, as a result of Cacti's most recent post I'm going to have to:

Vote: Cacti

He is a huge parrot he is scum-hunting off of almost nothing and along with his previous play I think he is the best candidate for a lynch.

Here he unvotes macman, seeing that his suspicions of macman were OMGUS. He then resumes his Cacti lynch.

Macman brings up an interesting point. Whatever, I didn't really want to lynch swords anyways.

Vote: Cacti (again)

I really don't think that Cacti vs. Swords is TvT and Cacti looks like the better option at this point.

He has been flip-flopping on his votes between Cacti and [insert person that he has voted here]

Thanks Sinz.

Hammer time. Vote: Sinz

Here he hammers.

Kevin at this point does not seem to be playing his hardest as evidenced by his self-vote and lack of defense. I agree that Kevin is scummy as well, and he, along with Gheb and Swords are my main suspects right now. Let me explain.

Gheb - I apparently went from kinda scummy to "lol obvscum" just for hammering (something that scum tends to avoid). But I'm going to wait to his pbpa for more about him.

Swords - He parrots everyone and never seems to really have opinions of his own.

He doesn't say anything about cacti here, just acts like he never had suspicions at all.

I'm ready for a Riddle/Kevin lynch at this point.

@everyone who's the play for today?

 

[Cacti]

Wtf... Just, I don't know.

Swords is always SOOOOO scummy/stupid all the time I don't even know what to make of it.

Alrighty, i've quoted some posts while i was re-reading.....

Here he just states his suspicions of Cacti. Nothing scummy in this post.

Then why would you even bother to quote it?

Okay here he either:

A. Town. He thought i was scum and voted me.
B. Scum. He voted me because i was the most likely lynch at the time.
C. Indy?

What... What does that have anything to do with Riddle? That's Rockin's post, and what yo usaid about it is just face-palm. Why would you single out Rockin for voting you, when so many others have. Why single out Rockin FOR voting you at all? WHY is this quote even up here? I just do not understand it at all.

He unvotes here, despite that Cacti hadn't entirely answered the questions. Then later, he re-votes cacti for the same reasoning. Cacti hadn't done much else since then, but Riddle just resumed his pursuit of the Cacti lynch.

I did answer the questions, entirely, if you look back. Don't accuse me of not "entirely answering questions", when you have not answered most questions against you satisfactory-(ily?).

This was incredibly OMGUSy. His case is against Macman's regular play, and Gheb even told him that that was so.

How is this OMGUSy at all? Do you even know what an OMGUS is? Macman never voted Riddle at all before Riddle made the case against him, and why would you bring this up now, of all times?

Here he unvotes macman, seeing that his suspicions of macman were OMGUS. He then resumes his Cacti lynch.

Again, you do not know what an OMGUS is.

He has been flip-flopping on his votes between Cacti and [insert person that he has voted here]

Riddle only flip-flopped to Macman and then back to me (not saying it wasn't scummy). This point was stated many times before and you are just parroting.

Here he hammers.

...and? Are you going to say anything about his hammer? Was it scummy? Anything? Why even quote it at all?

He doesn't say anything about cacti here, just acts like he never had suspicions at all.

Swords, I said this, you are again, just parroting me.

I'm ready for a Riddle/Kevin lynch at this point.

What a coincidence, the two most targeted people today! You are now "suspicious" of Riddle, as you see that a bandwagon is swinging his way! You also post Kevin up there as you don't want it to look like that you are just randomly sheeping to everyone, and that is a horrible way to cover it up, scum.

Swords, why do you make a post with nothing but fluff in it to make it look big and impressive and say that you are now suspicious of Riddle, but do nothing about it. Why don't you vote him and back up your suspicions?

I really think that Swords needs to die now, and Riddle works too if no one wants to lynch Swords. Swords is just so sheepy and unhelpful that even if he was town, I don't think he'd be a help at all, more of a hinderance, later on.

 

[KevinM]

I'd really like to not be lynched, I should through that out there.

If we're going to lynch someone between me and Riddle that is.

 

[Riddle]

I'd really like to not be lynched, I should through that out there.

If we're going to lynch someone between me and Riddle that is.

Thanks Kevin.

 

[Riddle]

Alrighty, i've quoted some posts while i was re-reading.....

Here he just states his suspicions of Cacti. Nothing scummy in this post.

You thought Cacti was scummy too at this point. What is your point here?

Okay here he either:

A. Town. He thought i was scum and voted me.
B. Scum. He voted me because i was the most likely lynch at the time.
C. Indy?

That narrows it down and isn't related to me at all.

He unvotes here, despite that Cacti hadn't entirely answered the questions. Then later, he re-votes cacti for the same reasoning. Cacti hadn't done much else since then, but Riddle just resumed his pursuit of the Cacti lynch.

At that point Cacti had answered the questions satisfactorily. I did not later pursue Cacti's lynch for the same reasons. There were entirely new reasons and if you decided to stop skimming you would know that.

This was incredibly OMGUSy. His case is against Macman's regular play, and Gheb even told him that that was so.

You need to learn what OMGUS means. OMGUS = Oh My God yoU Suck. Its when you vote someone right after they voted you the only reason being that they did in fact vote for you. Yeah my case against Macman sucked, I explained that I was annoyed by his playstyle to the point that I misinterpreted it as scummy.

Here he unvotes macman, seeing that his suspicions of macman were OMGUS. He then resumes his Cacti lynch.

See Above.

[SwordsRbroken]He has been flip-flopping on his votes between Cacti and [insert person that he has voted here][/quote]

Actually what I meant by (again) was that I already had my vote on Cacti and I was just emphasizing it. Nice skimming.

Here he hammers.

Would you rather I didn't hammer? I didn't want the day to end in a no lynch so I was taking initiative.

He doesn't say anything about cacti here, just acts like he never had suspicions at all.

I could say the very same thing about you. At that point I found Kevin more scummy.

I'm ready for a Riddle/Kevin lynch at this point.

@everyone who's the play for today?

That's rather convenient. The play is Kevin/You. At this point I just think you are dumb, because you seem like you are scumhunting.

 

[Riddle]

Thoughts on Riddle + other suspicions:

In the early stage of D1 there was already a soft-wagon against Riddle based on this post:



Emphasis mine.
As you can see it's fairly obvious that Riddle was contradicting himself. The discussion led nowhere even though it help us end the RVS very quickly? That's actually part of the reason D1 was so productive! Why would you call ending the RVS going "nowhere"? Looks like a vague attempt to discredit legit discussion.
A mini-BW followed with Marshy and Chacin placing votes on him. The only thing that kept the wagon from becoming bigger was the fact that the Cacti wagon emerged (with Riddle being one of the main forces behind it for most of D1).

Its fairly obvious you don't understand what I meant at all. There is no contradiction if you read it as "This discussion helped us out of RVS, however I think this argument has no further use." Rest of the paragraph is just a fact.

His 282 also stands out to me. It's his attempt to make a case against Macman. The timing of this post is very awkward to say the least. It seems as if he couldn't convince anybody to stay on the Cacti wagon so he tries to incriminate Macman with an even less convincing case at a time everybody was hopping either the swords or Truth BW.

That case was awful. I was so annoyed by Mac's play that I convinced myself that it was scummy when it was really not. Are you suggesting that both Truth and Swords are my scumbuddies? Because that is the only way I can see this as being a scumtell. In my experience scum go for the easy lynch.

His 342 looks like a very weak and non-commiting way to relativate the things he said also fluffed with some other dumb stuff.

I was letting you guys know where I stood. I didn't feel like I needed to make a actual case against anyone but Cacti at that point.

Overall he has contributed very little most of D1. He has never taken a strong stance against anybody except Cacti. What were his thoughts on mentos when he was under suspicion? What happened to his suspicion against Macman? Even his hammer against Sinz looks like a very sheepish move as crazy as it sounds. Kinda like "oh well, I'm town but imma hammer him anyway because there's no plurality rule!". Nevermind the fact that we had a whole day left and that Sinz still could've answered questions for us.
He eagerly seemed to avoid those "disconnections" Omni kept talking about most of the time - he rarely took a stance on what was actually happening in the game. Instead he made some dubious cases and spend most of the time arguing with Cacti. If he was mentioned as scummy he usually kept quiet for a while.

I told you what my thoughts of mentos were. My suspicion against Macman was not actually suspicion but annoyance. We had already had an extension I really didn't think it was necessary to postpone it another day. I did in fact ask Sinz to post his suspicions. I avoided the disconnections, because they are dumb. Bussing is like the most common strategy ever and the disconnections counted even things like "Swords seems scummy, but X is more scummy to me" which is like textbook bussing. I agree I made a dubious case. And sorry I argued with someone I found scummy. I also tried to defend myself whenever called upon.

Those are my main issues with Riddle. The question "Scum or dumb" is omnipresent when I read his posts. Personally, I'm pretty sure it's the former but I can't do much more to prove it. Counterpoints:

Okay.

- Riddle often plays like that. He played like obvscum in FFVII and was actually the Vig. I found Riddle to be scummy in every game he played so far. Maybe I'm just too tunneled?

Actually I was indie. Yeah I have a relatively bad playstyle for this ****. I'm always found scummy.

- My scumtails are usually weaksauce. Look at Simpsons D2 to see it in great detail.

Uhhh, okay?

In his 432 Omni also calls Riddle "dumb or scum" and Omni was town. I think Omni's opinion can be taken at face value, which makes me feel that my case against Riddle might have merit.

What about Sinz's suspicion list? I think I was 4th towniest on that.

Vote Riddle for now.

Okay.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Then why would you even bother to quote it? Why would you even care?



What... What does that have anything to do with Riddle? That's Rockin's post, and what yo usaid about it is just face-palm. Why would you single out Rockin for voting you, when so many others have. Why single out Rockin FOR voting you at all? WHY is this quote even up here? I just do not understand it at all. My entire post wasn't to be about riddle. Just found it interesting that Rockin hopped on the wagon with the most votes.

How is this OMGUSy at all? Do you even know what an OMGUS is? Macman never voted Riddle at all before Riddle made the case against him, and why would you bring this up now, of all times? Now that i look at the definition again, i see that it is more like a scum or dumb post than an OMGUS post.


...and? Are you going to say anything about his hammer? Was it scummy? Anything? Why even quote it at all? I just put it in there to go with the case of the possible lynch of Riddle. You make your observations Cacti, and i'll make mine.


What a coincidence, the two most targeted people today! You are now "suspicious" of Riddle, as you see that a bandwagon is swinging his way! You also post Kevin up there as you don't want it to look like that you are just randomly sheeping to everyone, and that is a horrible way to cover it up, scum.

Swords, why do you make a post with nothing but fluff in it to make it look big and impressive and say that you are now suspicious of Riddle, but do nothing about it. Why don't you vote him and back up your suspicions? Because i asked everyone who the play for today. Read the entire post and stop skimming sCumti.

My responses in blue.

Cacti, honestly, you wanted to lynch no one but me and the one who seems likely to be lynched. I think that if you ended your case on me, you would have suspicions cast on you for this.

Would you state your points against riddle instead of saying:

I really think that Swords needs to die now, and Riddle works too if no one wants to lynch Swords.

It's nice that you want to lynch me, but when you say you support a lynch, you need to back up your reasoning with stuff other than, "i think swords needs to be lynched based on the reasons above, but i'm okay with [insert person here].
I think you're going on an OMGUS here, because when i voted you early in the game, you voted me back, and have kept on it ever since.

Also, i have a quote from the wiki showing what an OMGUS is.

OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.

FoS: Cacti

Now please state your suspicion of other people, and make sure it isn't dumb. Else, much of your reasoning is OMGUS.

 

[Cacti]

Please do not answer within quotes, it makes it really hard to quote and respond to afterwards. Split the quote up like Riddle or I did.

Why would you even care?

Because my main point is that everything in your post is fluff, and you are just pseudo-scumhunting.

My entire post wasn't to be about riddle. Just found it interesting that Rockin hopped on the wagon with the most votes.

Then why did you not say this? You just listed why he would be voting if he was town, scum, or indy, which [sarcasm]really helps us[/sarcasm].

Now that i look at the definition again, i see that it is more like a scum or dumb post than an OMGUS post.

Yeah, you were obviously skimming, looking back for just a few seconds to grasp a few straws to try to justify your ok-ness of a Riddle lynch.

Because i asked everyone who the play for today. Read the entire post and stop skimming sCumti.

Ok, so you are holding your vote until you know who everyone else is ok with? That seems really odd, like scum waiting to take the hammer.

Oh, yes, and you have conveniently skimmed over one of my main points, I would like you to answer it:

What a coincidence, the two most targeted people today! You are now "suspicious" of Riddle, as you see that a bandwagon is swinging his way! You also post Kevin up there as you don't want it to look like that you are just randomly sheeping to everyone, and that is a horrible way to cover it up, scum.

(That's my point)

It's nice that you want to lynch me, but when you say you support a lynch, you need to back up your reasoning with stuff other than, "i think swords needs to be lynched based on the reasons above, but i'm okay with [insert person here].

Swords, READ! I did state my reasons for being ok with a Riddle lynch in my 706 post.

I think you're going on an OMGUS here, because when i voted you early in the game, you voted me back, and have kept on it ever since.

Also, i have a quote from the wiki showing what an OMGUS is.

You also have no idea what an OMGUS is. If someone votes someone for x reasons, and then that person votes the person back for y reasons, as long as the reasons are solid, it is not a OMGUS. The basis if calling someone out on a OMGUS is, as stated in your MafiaWiki quote, is that you're voting someone mainly because they voted you. I obviously did not, and you are completely ignoring all of the points I have made about your scummy-ness throughout this thread. I will not state them over again, as you have constantly said that I have had bad reasons for voting you, making me restating my points again. This time, you can look back for yourself.

Swords, you have not even stated your reasons for being ok with a Riddle lynch. You have not even posted your signature "i agree" post. You just try to justify it with a bunch of OMGUS crap which you now say is "dumb or scum", which is just parroting Gheb. Justify your foses with more then just "I agree".

OMGUS isn't even a very good scumtell! Set scumtells such as bandwagoning, putting someone at L-1, and OMGUSing are very WIFOMey, as everyone already knows that they are scummy, causing people to avoid doing them. When someone does do one of these scumtells, you cannot tell if they are village just slipping, or a scum slipping. They are very iffy.

Cacti, honestly, you wanted to lynch no one but me and the one who seems likely to be lynched. I think that if you ended your case on me, you would have suspicions cast on you for this.

Wow, this is blatant pseudo-scumhunting here. I spearheaded the case against you yesterday out of nowhere, starting it when no one else had suspicions for you. You call that taking advantage of the person most likely lynched? I have held my suspicions against you because you keep on being scummy, and inadequately answer questions.

FoS: Cacti

Now please state your suspicion of other people, and make sure it isn't dumb. Else, much of your reasoning is OMGUS.

I said I am suspicious of Riddle, for reasons stated before. I really don't see how my reasons against you or Riddle are dumb. You tell me to state my suspicions of other people, as if steering me away from you.

I would also like to say that you have not satisfactorily justified your suspicions either. All of your suspicions in this whole game have been "justified" by "I agree", or parroting other people. Use your own reasons.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

swords is not the play... more thoughts to come

 

[SwordsRbroken]

What a coincidence, the two most targeted people today! You are now "suspicious" of Riddle, as you see that a bandwagon is swinging his way! You also post Kevin up there as you don't want it to look like that you are just randomly sheeping to everyone, and that is a horrible way to cover it up, scum.

Maybe Kevin and Riddle are just the scummiest for reasons already explained.

Please do not answer within quotes, it makes it really hard to quote and respond to afterwards. Split the quote up like Riddle or I did.

Fine, i'll do that instead.

Then why did you not say this? You just listed why he would be voting if he was town, scum, or indy, which [sarcasm]really helps us[/sarcasm].

Whatever.

Yeah, you were obviously skimming, looking back for just a few seconds to grasp a few straws to try to justify your ok-ness of a Riddle lynch.

No, i had the meaning of OMGUS confused with Scum or dumb.

Ok, so you are holding your vote until you know who everyone else is ok with? That seems really odd, like scum waiting to take the hammer.

Wth? i'm already voting kevin! Stop skimming Cacti!

You also have no idea what an OMGUS is. If someone votes someone for x reasons, and then that person votes the person back for y reasons, as long as the reasons are solid, it is not a OMGUS. The basis if calling someone out on a OMGUS is, as stated in your MafiaWiki quote, is that you're voting someone mainly because they voted you. I obviously did not, and you are completely ignoring all of the points I have made about your scummy-ness throughout this thread. I will not state them over again, as you have constantly said that I have had bad reasons for voting you, making me restating my points again. This time, you can look back for yourself.

i already know what your points are against me, as you've stated them many times already, saying, "Let's lynch swords! for x, y, and z reasons!"

Swords, you have not even stated your reasons for being ok with a Riddle lynch. You have not even posted your signature "i agree" post. You just try to justify it with a bunch of OMGUS crap which you now say is "dumb or scum", which is just parroting Gheb. Justify your foses with more then just "I agree".

Um, much of the case against riddle had already been posted, so you're criticizing me for not parroting here?

OMGUS isn't even a very good scumtell! Set scumtells such as bandwagoning, putting someone at L-1, and OMGUSing are very WIFOMey, as everyone already knows that they are scummy, causing people to avoid doing them. When someone does do one of these scumtells, you cannot tell if they are village just slipping, or a scum slipping. They are very iffy.

So based on this definition, you've said that much of my play is OMGUSy, and you use it as a reason for my lynch. Then you say here that it's not even a good scum tell.

Wow, this is blatant pseudo-scumhunting here. I spearheaded the case against you yesterday out of nowhere, starting it when no one else had suspicions for you. You call that taking advantage of the person most likely lynched? I have held my suspicions against you because you keep on being scummy, and inadequately answer questions.

I said I am suspicious of Riddle, for reasons stated before. I really don't see how my reasons against you or Riddle are dumb. You tell me to state my suspicions of other people, as if steering me away from you.

I never said your reasoning against riddle was dumb! *sigh* Once again, you are misinterpreting a post. Your reasoning of my play being OMGUS is bad, because you just said earlier in your post that OMGUS isn't even a good scumtell! And i know that there are other reasons besides this, don't repeat yourself Cacti.

I would also like to say that you have not satisfactorily justified your suspicions either. All of your suspicions in this whole game have been "justified" by "I agree", or parroting other people. Use your own reasons.

Whatever.

I'd like to see Pierre, Rockin, and Macman post more.