Phoenix Wright Mafia [GAME OVER!]

[SwordsRbroken]

Darn, ninja'ed.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

VOTE COUNT

KevinM [3] : Macman, Mentosman, Swords.
Riddle [2] : Gheb, Marshy
Swords [1] : Cacti
Not Voting: Pierre, Truth, Riddle, Rockin, KevinM

deadline is the last minute of 11/29
takes 6/11 to lynch

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I'm voting Kevin, Jungle.

 

[Rockin]

Gaaaaah! I effing hate work. They're slave driving me, I swear T_____T;; Even now, I have to go to work and I'm not even sure if I'll be back at 12AM (MIGHT have to work a doubleshift...there's always that chance of someone calling out of work. ***s)

Whether I come back tonight or early morning, I'm going to make some kind of post as to what I think of stuff that has been said.

 

[KevinM]

Like

unvote if I have one
Vote Riddle

 

[#HBC | Mac]

VOTE COUNT

KevinM [3] : Macman, Marshy, Mentosman, Swords.
Riddle [1] : Gheb
Swords [1] : Cacti
Not Voting: Pierre, Truth, Riddle, Rockin, KevinM

deadline is the last minute of 11/29
takes 6/11 to lynch

is this the correct vote count?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The vote count is incorrect I think. Marshy's vote is currently on Riddle too. More people hop on the Riddle wagon please.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

So, what does everyone think? Is Riddle the play for today?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Man, I really consider switching to swords for posts like that. You're asking a whole week before the deadline if Riddle is the play toDay? Do you realize that a lot of people are OK with lynching you and think you are the play toDay? There has been like no discussion about the whole Riddle case. Many people have not given their opinion on him (especially not you, ironically) and people like The Truth, Riddle, Rockin and Pierre have not posted a lot at all toDay. Why do you want to end the day so fast? Even if we lynch Riddle and he flips scum hammering him now would only prevent us from getting more info.

Right now I'm OK with lynching Riddle but I'm getting around swords more and more. Cacti's case against him has lots of merit and I wouldn't mind him dead for his posts. This guy deserves more than just 1 vote.
What do people think about Pierre? I wrote a huge post about him being possible a traitor/anti-town role and nobody has an opinion on that? Wanna let him coast to endgame?

 

[KevinM]

not like-ing Pierre or Swords either, don't know if they're scum or not but they're not helping town.

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

@Gheb: I asked KevinM if he wanted to name claim because he has an obvious post restriction that I cannot seem to peg to anyone flavor wise, and it felt like the Day was half-way through and he was the main suspect (not counting his own vote on himself, which is a red flag intrinsically, he had 3 and the only 3 votes on the count). This does not contradict my earlier "stance" on name claiming and I don't really see how you think it does, especially because that spat on name-flavor that I had was with Macman, and Macman just clarified to you that he didn't think my asking for a name claim was suspicious. You are overemphasizing the importance of a name claim to say that its just like a pre-lynch role claim, which is not true. And, how do you get "mafia traitor" out of all of that? I really don't follow.

I should post more than just a response to you, but I really do need to read more before I can be comfortable saying something and meaning it.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

what happened to all the steam on the kevinm wagon?

 

[SwordsRbroken]

not like-ing Pierre or Swords either, don't know if they're scum or not but they're not helping town.

This is exactly why you have 3 votes on you. You post mostly one-liners. Back up your ****!

Man, I really consider switching to swords for posts like that. You're asking a whole week before the deadline if Riddle is the play toDay? Do you realize that a lot of people are OK with lynching you and think you are the play toDay? There has been like no discussion about the whole Riddle case. Many people have not given their opinion on him (especially not you, ironically) and people like The Truth, Riddle, Rockin and Pierre have not posted a lot at all toDay. Why do you want to end the day so fast? Even if we lynch Riddle and he flips scum hammering him now would only prevent us from getting more info.

At the beginning, you say that it's a bad thing that i ask who is the best lynch. And it's only six days until the deadline, and i probably won't be that active on Thanksgiving day. But enough of that. Besides, there's nothing wrong with asking everyone early. What if riddle role-claims and it is believable? We would need more time to find another possible lynch. Use your head man.

Thoughts on Riddle + other suspicions:

In the early stage of D1 there was already a soft-wagon against Riddle based on this post:



Emphasis mine.
As you can see it's fairly obvious that Riddle was contradicting himself. The discussion led nowhere even though it help us end the RVS very quickly? That's actually part of the reason D1 was so productive! Why would you call ending the RVS going "nowhere"? Looks like a vague attempt to discredit legit discussion.
A mini-BW followed with Marshy and Chacin placing votes on him. The only thing that kept the wagon from becoming bigger was the fact that the Cacti wagon emerged (with Riddle being one of the main forces behind it for most of D1).

His 282 also stands out to me. It's his attempt to make a case against Macman. The timing of this post is very awkward to say the least. It seems as if he couldn't convince anybody to stay on the Cacti wagon so he tries to incriminate Macman with an even less convincing case at a time everybody was hopping either the swords or Truth BW.

His 342 looks like a very weak and non-commiting way to relativate the things he said also fluffed with some other dumb stuff.

Overall he has contributed very little most of D1. He has never taken a strong stance against anybody except Cacti. What were his thoughts on mentos when he was under suspicion? What happened to his suspicion against Macman? Even his hammer against Sinz looks like a very sheepish move as crazy as it sounds. Kinda like "oh well, I'm town but imma hammer him anyway because there's no plurality rule!". Nevermind the fact that we had a whole day left and that Sinz still could've answered questions for us.
He eagerly seemed to avoid those "disconnections" Omni kept talking about most of the time - he rarely took a stance on what was actually happening in the game. Instead he made some dubious cases and spend most of the time arguing with Cacti. If he was mentioned as scummy he usually kept quiet for a while.

Those are my main issues with Riddle. The question "Scum or dumb" is omnipresent when I read his posts. Personally, I'm pretty sure it's the former but I can't do much more to prove it. Counterpoints:

- Riddle often plays like that. He played like obvscum in FFVII and was actually the Vig. I found Riddle to be scummy in every game he played so far. Maybe I'm just too tunneled?
- My scumtails are usually weaksauce. Look at Simpsons D2 to see it in great detail.

In his 432 Omni also calls Riddle "dumb or scum" and Omni was town. I think Omni's opinion can be taken at face value, which makes me feel that my case against Riddle might have merit.

Vote Riddle for now.

The riddle wagon has merit, but i find it interesting that Omni was suspicious of Mentos, and then Omni was NK'ed.

After reading through what Omni said I get some other interesting points, which leads me to another suspect of mine: Pierre the Scarecrow. I really didn't think too much about it but after re-reading I get Traitor-ish vibes from him. This is because he speculated a lot about characters and voiced opinions on players, which gives mafia info.
In his 206 he takes a clear stance against nameclaims but now prematurely asks Kevin to nameclaim before the town members have even discussed all options? Pierre basically tells us and the mafia in that, which characters he thinks have PRs. Kinda like "Hey scum, those guys are PRs! NK them if they're claimed!".

His 275 is a textbook example of traitor play. Hand all information on players to the mafia in a nicely sized post, which covers every single player. The first mentioned players are of course the "obvtowns", the trustworthy players. This is basically like saying "Hey scum, these guys are trustworthy and look like town! I'd be a good idea to NK them!"
I've seen a post like that before, when I was reading through the DG archives - it was Scav, who posted something very similar D1 in High School Mafia. Guess what? - He was the traitor! Overall I think my FoS against him is justsified.

Well, a few people were doing that, but this does include riddle, which does make me think that Riddle may be scumbuddies with Pierre.

 

[mentosman8]

Lol Swords, do you honestly think I'm the kind of scum who would kill someone because they were suspicious of me? Honestly, the two games I've been confirmed scum in, it wouldn't have even been an issue in, as I made sure no one had strong suspicions of me^.^(referring of course to MegaMaf and FF7). But I guess more importantly, what exactly is interesting about that fact?

Also, Kevin posting one liners is NOT why he has 3 votes on him. If it was Marshy would be just as voted. The reason I have voted Kevin is outlined in my big PBPA, and the only thing I invoked about his one liners is that he does them despite calling Marshy and Mac out on doing the same thing and calling them scummy for it.

For right now, definitely still want the KevMo lynch,Swords is definitely my #2

 

[Cacti]

Rockin, Pierre, and Truth need to stop sitting on the sidelines now and say something about the arguments going on. I don't think Truth has even said anything this day.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

wor d

 

[Rockin]

Hey guys, sorry about ditching ya and all. ><;; Least now I can try and voice my opinion.

The case against KevinM from Mentos is pretty legit. There were several contractdictions in terms of Kevin. The self voting wasn't really that scummy, but at the same time, it wasn't helpful. Does this make him scum? Possibly. Does this mean he deserves to be lynched? Possibly.

I have some questions for everyone in the game.

If I am lynched and when I flip town, where would you look next?

HOWEVER, like there is one condition to this.

I want swords to answer this question first, he will not be allowed to sheep.

Once again, thank you Gheb for being a douche and posted your response before Swords

My focus would to look a bit closer at those who voted you off, as well as look into the people's response in terms of your case (you know, see if they were with it, defending it, against it, etc.)

I still don't see Pierre scummy in anyway, even if he's asking KevinM to nameclaim. I also don't see much of a traitor thing, but more of him just contributing and giving out his thoughts on how he sees other people. On the topic of nameclaiming, I still feel we should avoid doing it unless we have little to no choice. I feel that a hint of any players name give off possibilities as to who their roles are. We shouldn't do it unless it'll really benefit town.

I agree with the riddle case Gheb has brought up. I still think that Macman case he brought up was bs at most, and he hasn't made himself look townie at all. I didn't like Cacti answering the case swords put up against Riddle, so FoS: Cacti. Why answer a pbp of something that didn't even relate to you?

I'm still with a swords lynch cause even now, he hasn't much proven to me that he's either helpful or townish. I'm waiting to hear why Macman feels 'swords is not the play...more later.'

I'm down for either a Riddle or Swords lynch. I guess a KevinM lynch sounds fine, but those first two take top priority for the moment.

KevinM, I notice I'm no longer in your lynch pool. I'm curious as to why?

Cacti, why did you answer a case that didn't involve you?

Pierre/Truth, what's your thoughts on the whole thing thus far?


Vote: Swords

Oh, Gheb

If he doesn't flip scum I will be very suspicious of his wagoners regardless. Scum can't tell a townie from an indy so they wouldn't know against whom they advocate the mislynch. I'd be happier with Riddle/Swords gone today. Swords recent post are infuriating just to look at and I don't feel like the way he plays is in towns best interest at all.

.....can you translate what that means exactly? o.o

 

[Cacti]

I agree with the riddle case Gheb has brought up. I still think that Macman case he brought up was bs at most, and he hasn't made himself look townie at all. I didn't like Cacti answering the case swords put up against Riddle, so FoS: Cacti. Why answer a pbp of something that didn't even relate to you?

Cacti, why did you answer a case that didn't involve you?

I didn't really answer it, I quoted it because I felt that the post was scummy, and said why.

If he doesn't flip scum I will be very suspicious of his wagoners regardless. Scum can't tell a townie from an indy so they wouldn't know against whom they advocate the mislynch. I'd be happier with Riddle/Swords gone today. Swords recent post are infuriating just to look at and I don't feel like the way he plays is in towns best interest at all.

.....can you translate what that means exactly? o.o

I think he means that scum know who's not scum, as they know each other, but out of the people that they know are not scum, they cannot tell what role they are. They could be indy, as indy is separate from scum, and scum would have no idea if a certain player was an indy or not.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

like why swords? unhelpful =/= scummy. A swords lynch regardless of flip won't give us any information because everyone other than me is seemingly for it. Kevin/Riddle lynch on the other hand give us plenty of info. I for one find it odd that the heat on kevinM seemed to die down in favor of a less thought out case against swords. Swords is clearly the easy lynch, and is just perfect the mafia to push this ML d2.

Like honestly, vig should just shoot swords if you want him dead that badly. But let's not waste a lynch on him. I would really like to lynch scum. Swords isn't scum since everyone has wanted him dead since d1, and those feelings are only being amplified now.

 

[Rockin]

I didn't really answer it, I quoted it because I felt that the post was scummy, and said why.[.quote]

Regardless. You still gave it some attention instead of at least letting the person that was being targeted answer first. By you answering something, you give scum a easier time properly answering it.

I think he means that scum know who's not scum, as they know each other, but out of the people that they know are not scum, they cannot tell what role they are. They could be indy, as indy is separate from scum, and scum would have no idea if a certain player was an indy or not.

This is what I mean. Please stop doing that.

like why swords? unhelpful =/= scummy. A swords lynch regardless of flip won't give us any information because everyone other than me is seemingly for it. Kevin/Riddle lynch on the other hand give us plenty of info. I for one find it odd that the heat on kevinM seemed to die down in favor of a less thought out case against swords. Swords is clearly the easy lynch, and is just perfect the mafia to push this ML d2.

Like honestly, vig should just shoot swords if you want him dead that badly. But let's not waste a lynch on him. I would really like to lynch scum. Swords isn't scum since everyone has wanted him dead since d1, and those feelings are only being amplified now.

That's just the thing. I find anyone either unhelpful or distracting kinda scummy. Like I said, I'll go with a KevinM lynch cause it has merit, but I'm fine with a Swords lynch as well. Riddle is also not too far off.

 

[KevinM]

Macman I like totally see it the same way as soon as the lynch against me died down everyone is leaning towards the easier lynch.

*shrugs* Seems scummy.

Granted I like don't want to get lynched but its odd that as soon as people saw I adequately defended myself they hopped on to MUCH easier wagons.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

The Truth has asked to be replaced, I have contacted Circus.

 

[Rockin]

The Truth has asked to be replaced, I have contacted Circus.

Ugh, ****ing gay...

 

[Circus]

Haha, how right you are.

Sorry guys. I've been passively following the goings-on in this thread, but I need to do some catching up and rereading before I contribute. Try to bare with me.

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

I have a question that I hope is not reaching too much and really isn't harmful (though some people might be like OMG THATS TOTALLY HARMFUL!!!!! by not actually thinking and instead going by textbook fishing rules). And it does lead somewhere good.

Circus, can you day-talk with your secret mason partner?

 

[Circus]

Eh. I guess I see no harm in answering that since you already know I have one.

Yes, I can.

Still reading the thread, obviously. I'll probably finish this up tomorrow. I've never had to replace into a game this deep into it, and lemme tell ya, it blooooooows. Hopefully I'll be able to marathon through this stuff tomorrow afternoon.

And of course now Monster Island starts up too.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yay circus replacement. can't wait to hear your thoughts

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

Okay, cool. So no offense to The_Truth but he was not very reliable at all. In fact, the reason why we know you have a mason buddy is because T_T was pushed to L-1 and had to claim it. But you seem to know what you are doing (modding your own game, green name), plus you can talk with your mason partner who doesnt need to catch up like you do, so I'm pretty confident in just voting however you vote. I say this because deadline is coming up and I really don't know who to vote for. So if you don't mind, I'm just going to proxy my vote to yours.

 

[Circus]

Okay, cool. So no offense to The_Truth but he was not very reliable at all. In fact, the reason why we know you have a mason buddy is because T_T was pushed to L-1 and had to claim it. But you seem to know what you are doing (modding your own game, green name), plus you can talk with your mason partner who doesnt need to catch up like you do, so I'm pretty confident in just voting however you vote. I say this because deadline is coming up and I really don't know who to vote for. So if you don't mind, I'm just going to proxy my vote to yours.

I guess that's your call, but I don't know that I would advise it. I'm about halfway through the posts (I should have gone to bed hours ago, but I just couldn't get my mind off the thread) and I'm still pretty fuzzy on most people. I should have something for everyone to chew on tomorrow, but I'm not gonna be able to drop in here and hand us scum on a silver platter.

My point is, don't let the green name and my James Dean swagger fool you. I ain't the leader you're lookin' for.

Quick hits before I hit the hay (remember, only about halfway through reading):

Not liking Rockin.
Swords is way too tunneled on Cacti. Not scummy, but I think it needs to stop and lynching either of them shouldn't be how it happens. In general, the two of them are too focused on each other.
Not feeling great about Mentos right now.
Kevin seems to be a point of interest right now, but I'm not sure why yet. Will be reading his stuff closely.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Rockin

What I tried to say is that nobody should gain any credit for advocating a lynch on an independent even though it is an anti-town role. Mafia knows each other so they also know who is not Mafia. However, they still can't tell the difference between a townie and an independent. As a result an indie flip doesn't make the people on the wagon more credible even though we get rid of an anti-town player. That's why nobody gets cleared for lynching an independent.

@Swords

Dude, you can't always be suspicious of everybody who votes you/calls you a lynch candidate. Everytime somebody votes you you OMGUS vote him. Everytime somebody is OK with your lynch you FoS him. Have you ever considered that you could be wrong about who's suspicious or not? Have you ever thought about why you are suspicious? If you think hard about it you may get an answer.

@Macman

I don't agree with this. If swords flips town or indy then it's safe to assume that his wagon was scum-infected, which is info we can use(especially since it's very simple for scum to push for the swords mislynch as seen in Para). Plus we get rid of a liability - we'll probably run into the same problems with him toMorrow and he continues to steal the spotlight from players who are actually scummy.
If he flips scum it's even better for us.

Unvote for now.

I could basically flip a coin between swords and Riddle ... I need to think about that harder.
One thing I'm in agreement with Kevin is that it's very hypocritical to advocate his [Kevin's] lynch, wagon him to L/2 and then suddenly act as if the suspicions against him never existed. This is quite baffling (for me) especially in Marshy's case because he's been on mentos' nuts the whole time as well. I don't know what to make out of that but I find it strange/hardly believable, how people who wanted mentos dead D1, vote for Kevin early D2 (with little to no discussion) and now suddenly are suspicious of neither? If Kevin flips town/indy then one of his wagoners is pretty much auto-scum in my eyes.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

1. Swords will flip town/indy.
2. His wagon will most likely be scum infected.
3. Not like that means anything seeing as how everyone'll be on his wagon.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

swords is supah town why are people still suspecting him? yeesh

unvote riddle vote kevin

 

[KevinM]

Like good idea Marshy.

 

[Circus]

Okay, I'm finally through the thread. I'm an itty bitty bit burnt out and a lot starving, so I'm not going to get into a huge player dissection right now. Hope you'll forgive me.

What I will say is that I'm not liking Mentos at all right now and I'm not getting why he has no votes. His giant anti-Kevin post, while containing some valid points, should not have erased him from anyone's suspect pool after his play on D1.

Vote: Mentosman

@Rockin: Explain to me why Swords is the scummiest player in the game. Other players have made (what I would argue are) better cases against players like Kevin and Riddle, which you seemed to agree had merit. But your vote is on Swords. Why? Be thorough.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i'm still suspicious of mentos.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

1. Swords will flip town/indy.

Possibly, but this point still stands:

we'll probably run into the same problems with him toMorrow and he continues to steal the spotlight from players who are actually scummy.

I can't help but think that lynching swords is win/win for town. I won't push his lynch any harder but I'm not against it at all. Need to make up my mind about other people first though.

2. His wagon will most likely be scum infected.

Indeed.

3. Not like that means anything seeing as how everyone'll be on his wagon.

Except you, Marshy, Circus and Pierre. Almost half of the game ...

What I will say is that I'm not liking Mentos at all right now and I'm not getting why he has no votes. His giant anti-Kevin post, while containing some valid points, should not have erased him from anyone's suspect pool after his play on D1.

Vote: Mentosman

i'm still suspicious of mentos.

I already wondered why all the suspicions on mentos seem to have vanished in the air. Everything he was suspicious for yesterDay still applies toDay. Very little disconnections overall even while slowly approaching the deadline of D2. YesterDay the only (dis)connections were Sinz (confirmed town) and either Cacti/Swords. Seriously I'm much cooler with a mentos lynch toDay than I was yesterDay because of it. I still do not approve of the Kevin lynch at all and I'd rather lynch mentos than him. Mostly because I find mentos still harder to trust than townMentos from TS Mafia and Simpsons and I'm wondering why so many people hoppes the Kevwagon without questioning mentos - his wishy-washy play from D1 should not be forgotten and even now there are suspiciously little disconnections.

I'm torn. I feel that scum is nudging us in the wrong direction. Kevin is @L-2 I believe while mentos has no votes at all. I don't think mentos should be the play toDay either but is the difference between them that big? I don't think so. Marshy is flat out confusing me. D1 he rails mentos like mad and now he just hops the Kevwagon based on mentos' case. Seriously? Nobody finds that worth noting? Pierre, Riddle and Rockin have been coasting through most of D2, Cacti and Swords are busting each others heads. That's half of the game not actively scumhunting/using their brains. And our cop is dead. It won't be easy make a correct lynch toDay and if those 5 guys are all town/not scum it'll be even more difficult.

I'll do a reread to see if I can find anything I didn't see before. The current situation makes me really ... aphatic.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

gheb i think you're overthinking stuff too much unvote kevin vote mentos

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Pierre was arguing why we should lynch swords d1 despite the disconnections thing. Truth also wanted to lynch swords d1.

This game is starting to frustrate me. Gheb, why are you giving **** to mentos. Yesterday I was being disregarded when I wanted to lynch mentos. People kept saying **** like, "Oh we shouldn't lynch him now. If he doesn't start to contribute d2 than we can lynch him"

The only reason Mentos is scummy was because has hadn't done anything d1. Very non committal. Kevin has actually done scummy ****. I was ignoring Mentos today because he was pushing a case I liked. And didn't want to openly state any suspicions cuz that would distract town. Though I thought it was a bit suspect that Mentos came out right off the bat with a new case on KevinM. That seemingly spurred out of nowhere.

Marshy, wtf are you doing. jeez

really guys? all kevin has been saying today was that he's not the play and that swords and mentos are scummy. Swords being a terrible suspicion for someone to have, and mentos just seemingly omgus. I have no idea why people aren't going for Kevin. Is it because scum are leading us away from the play? Or is it because I am just straight up wrong about him? dunno, but this is getting dumb. I can't play this game when half the people can't think for themselves/aren't doing anything/jumping on ****ing ******** bandwagons like the swords one.

whatever... I'll be down to lynch anyone except swords.

@everyone: deadline is in 4 days... whose the play?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

gheb i think you're overthinking stuff too much

Perhaps that's the case. I'd rather overthink things than put little thought into them though. But I suppose you're right.

This game is starting to frustrate me. Gheb, why are you giving **** to mentos. Yesterday I was being disregarded when I wanted to lynch mentos. People kept saying **** like, "Oh we shouldn't lynch him now. If he doesn't start to contribute d2 than we can lynch him"

But see, a lot happened between the earliest phase of D1 and now - we're already approaching the end of D2. Mentos' play has largely remained the same and we know almost nothing about his thought process despite everything that happened. What are his thoughts on most of the players? What did he think of most players yesterDay? The only thing I can remember is him being certain that Cacti vs Truth is scum-infected and even that option looks more and more like a no-go. We only know that he seems to stubbornly insist on lynching Kev - just as he did yesterDay with Sinz (who flipped town) and that's still very poor information to work with.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Eh, a postcount would be nice.