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Phoenix Wright Mafia [GAME OVER!]

KevinM

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unvote truth vote sinz

this is too vague. yes my last 2 posts are 1-liners but it looks like you're ignoring the content in them. it reminds me of chacoscum's pseudoscumhunting in ff7 when he used a similar reason to be suspicious of me. i've explained my thought process a lot more than i usually do so far and don't see what you're arguing here
Yes you've explained like your reasons as well which makes me wonder why you did your huge write up on who you thought was pro-town. Like it's been said before you're just painting targets on people's back which I would think you're a lot smarter then. Like I just don't like the way you're playing normal Marshy for the most part but seemingly have painted targets on various players backs. It's making my second guess your alignment because I know for a fact you're smarter then that so the scum or dumb thing doesn't play for me.
 

Hitman JT

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Actually, I am just vanilla. I don't have anything special, so me getting lynched wouldn't be the worst thing for the town.

So when I actually try to make a case I get ****ed over. Funny stuff. Maybe I should just try to insult every single person who takes a tiny bit of suspicion in me. Then try to blame it all on Marshy. Heh.
*sigh...*

I wanted truth to confirm if my suspicions were true. If I was wrong I didn't care for him to tell me who it actually was. So I just didn't want us to waste time trying to lynch him with the 3 days we have left. But I actually think i know who it is now XD but i'll just keep quiet.
sure. and i know who's gonna win the superbowl this year. >_>
let's just please drop the topic for now.

Vote: SwordsRBroken

while swords is still my biggest suspicion right now, I wouldn't mind switching to Sinz if it keeps the game moving since he just seems...out of it. and he is making little to no effort to defend himself even at L-3. if by chance he turns up town, well....he said it himself.
Sinz said:
me getting lynched wouldn't be the worst thing for the town.
 

Sinz

The only true DR vet.
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The way I am looking at it, is I have nothing special about my role. And I kind of dug myself a deep hole via tunneling. I know what i did wrong this game. And I will learn from it for the next game I do. (I think I might make an account on the mafia site and learn there.)

I was thinking about what KevinM said about gut feelings and I think he is actually completely right. Gut feelings don't lead to lynches that are beneficial.

I need to reread and see who I think is suspicious and redo my lynch pool. Because I had an epiphany about what I was doing wrong, and I think I can fix up my play style.

Also, my second theory was the one about kevin and cacti. Which the more I look at it, the more i think it was just dumb.
unvote: KevinM
 

Pierre the Scarecrow

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I don't see any merit in this "disconnections" logic but I also don't even know if I know what you're talking about. You find people you don't think are connected. Right, you weren't doing that anyways?

I don't find KevinM scummy. I find him to be frustrated with the people he's playing with.

I don't find Macman scummy. I don't even find it scummy that he's wondering who The_Truth's mason partner is because even though I think I know who it might be, I could be totally wrong.

Anyways, The_Truth shouldn't (and obviously by the way he is posting, isn't going to) out his partner unless we are about to lynch his partner. And that's fine.

im not sure if u understand what i'm talking about. if everyone gave a detailed list of their views and opinions on everyone on the game, scum has a better time deciding on their NK's and an easier time pushing mislynches.

basically, i dont think a complete detailed synopsis is a good idea until day 3 or 4. which is why i asked if u could stop doing it so scum can't take advantage of the information.
If everyone gave a detailed list of their views and opinions on everyone in the game, that would also mean that the mafia was giving a detailed list of their views and opinions on everyone in the game. While townies would be forced to fully flesh out their opinions and say who they think is town (which isn't actually a bad thing), mafia would also be forced to fully flesh out their fake opinions and be forced to clear certain people and put down on paper who their suspects are. That would prove to be invaluable. So, no, it is useful all throughout the game. Pre-D3/D4 included. Also, even if I am the only person doing it, the fact that the scum know what I'm thinking doesn't change the fact that the rest of the town also know what I'm thinking. Open and informational; if I'm right, I'm right; if I'm wrong, I'm wrong; but you will always know my thoughts.

sure. and i know who's gonna win the superbowl this year. >_>
let's just please drop the topic for now.

Vote: SwordsRBroken

while swords is still my biggest suspicion right now, I wouldn't mind switching to Sinz if it keeps the game moving since he just seems...out of it. and he is making little to no effort to defend himself even at L-3. if by chance he turns up town, well....he said it himself.
Drew Brees and the New Orleans Saints.

vote: Sinz

I'm fine with this lynch. I also don't mind seeing an alternate lynch form @ SwordsRbroken, except for the fact that the people currently voting for that lynch are Cacti, Rockin, and Mentos, and I haven't found those three to be very helpful.
 

#HBC | Mac

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Dunno why people would still be suspicious of Swords. I mean yes it's possible that both his scum partners bussed him d1, but how likely is that? At the very least, it should remove some suspicious on him and atleast make him not the best candidate for a d1 lynch. And even if he were to flip town, it would be hard to work off that info since everyone was for his lynch... so we would't have the usual connections we could work with to find his scumpartners.
 

Sinz

The only true DR vet.
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By full claim you mean which character I got? I got Acro.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
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VOTE COUNT

SwordsRbroken [4] : Cacti, Rockin, Mentosman8, Truth
Cacti [1] : Riddle
Marshy [1] : KevinM
Sinz [5] : Omni, Gheb, Swords, Marshy, Pierre
KevinM [2] : Sinz, Macman

deadline is the last minute of 11/12
takes 7/13 to lynch
 

Pierre the Scarecrow

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Hrm. I can't say I'm not wavering on the Sinz lynch. He has been unhelpful and he has had fairly poor opinions (in my fairly strong totally awesome buff max to the extreme opinion) and both he and his role show no future increase of usefulness. However, maybe he is just having trouble getting his berings strait and the haunts of the "easy lynch" are already pestering me in the back of my head.

But that's okay! Because there's plenty of people who look scummy! Isn't that right, The_Truth :urg::urg::urg:

I do in fact have a bit of a bone to pick with KevinM, contrary to the conclusions I had come to earlier.

Yes you've explained like your reasons as well which makes me wonder why you did your huge write up on who you thought was pro-town. Like it's been said before you're just painting targets on people's back which I would think you're a lot smarter then. Like I just don't like the way you're playing normal Marshy for the most part but seemingly have painted targets on various players backs. It's making my second guess your alignment because I know for a fact you're smarter then that so the scum or dumb thing doesn't play for me.
This was your #561 @ Marshy. You said that you do not like the fact that he has explained who he thinks is pro-town, in essence "painting a target on their backs." If I am not mistaken, this is similar to what Omni has been advising me against (though I disagree with him): do not explain who you think is town because then the mafia knows who you trust and will kill them, and instead only say who you think is mafia. From this context, I assumed Omni was comfortable with me as town but simply didn't want me to out who I thought was town because then the mafia would kill them. In contrast, however, you are telling Marshy that you think that he is scummy because he is doing what I did? You are telling him that you think he might be scum because he is saying who he thinks is town and therefore allowing the scum to know who to kill to keep the townies in the dark. But then, that would assume that Marshy is a townie who the scum need to know who he trusts so he can keep him in the dark. Do you like y'know understand this contradiction?

----

On the subject of SwordsRbroken, then, some people have brought up the fact that by using a "disconnections" theory, they do not think he is scum because people have disconnected the string between themselves and him. If I recall correctly, Macman posted a long list of every player at one point disagreeing with SwordsRbroken majorly and/or voting him. In essence, then, they don't think he is scum because he doesn't seem to have any scum partners.

It shouldn't take any explanation to realize how poor this logic is.

You are essentially saying that he's not mafia because everyone has disagreed with him, and the mafia wouldn't disagree with their scum partners. Except for the facts that 1) of course they would (WIFOM, distancing from a weak partner, future bus planning) and 2) if everyone has disagreed with him, then not only would the rest of the mafia have disagreed with him, but every townie would have, also. Are you telling me that even though every townie has disagreed with him, he is not a logical lynch? Hot. Garbage.

I kinda expect Macman and Omni's responses to that because they seem to be the ones heralding the grand invention of disconnections.

I also don't understand why Macman is his (Swords') primary suspect.
 

#HBC | Mac

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has nothing to do with them disagreeing with him. But with the fact that everyone has shown interest in wanting him dead/ok with his lynch. Of course, like I said before and what Mentos brought up, mafia may just be distancing/bussing swords for w/e reason. However, do you really think that this is likely? For scum to just readily bus swords d1? Especially when there are plenty others that are just as viable candidates for a lynch? i.e. Cacti and Sinz.

All i'm saying is that it's unlikely for scum to readily bus their own d1. I also think that even in the unlikely event that he does flip scum, we won't have much more information to go on to find his possible partners since everyone bussed him.

I also don't understand why I am either. I am trying to save his ***.
 

Pierre the Scarecrow

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However, do you really think that this is likely? For scum to just readily bus swords d1? Especially when there are plenty others that are just as viable candidates for a lynch? i.e. Cacti and Sinz.
Not trying to be snarky, but this taken from the most recent vote count:

SwordsRbroken [4] : Cacti, Rockin, Mentosman8, Truth
Sinz [5] : Omni, Gheb, Swords, Marshy, Pierre
 

Pierre the Scarecrow

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really? -_- ok

You asked why mafia would be voting SwordsR when there are other people they could be voting for over him, without considering the fact that there is a player with more votes than him. So maybe if SwordsR is mafia then his scum mates made a comment about how they could see him lynched but then are voting someone else. In other words8 people have made a negative comment towards him but are voting someone else. In other words that's pretty bad logic to use when approaching a viable lynch candidate and wondering if they are in fact possibly mafia or not.

the point was that you mentioned two players in particaular when saying that maf could have other avenues to pursue and i pointed out that one of those two actually has more votes than him so maybe they already are.

I'm still deciding if I want to change my vote and discussion is still fairly strong so I'd be perturbed if someone hammered before close-to-deadline.
 

#HBC | Mac

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you realize that before I made that post, swords had the vote plurality, and I believe he was at L-1 once before. After that post some of the suspicion was moved off swords and people started to go for the next best thing, that being sinz.

Don't see how it is bad logic at all. It's not infallible, but it's something. Tangible evidence. This is the same kind of logic people have used before to successfully clear people and will use in the future. You can't just disregard the entire think just because theres the possibility that he was bussed by both of his scumpartners. Especially not on SWF, where bussing barely ever happens.
 

Pierre the Scarecrow

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you realize that before I made that post, swords had the vote plurality, and I believe he was at L-1 once before. After that post some of the suspicion was moved off swords and people started to go for the next best thing, that being sinz.

Don't see how it is bad logic at all. It's not infallible, but it's something. Tangible evidence. This is the same kind of logic people have used before to successfully clear people and will use in the future. You can't just disregard the entire think just because theres the possibility that he was bussed by both of his scumpartners. Especially not on SWF, where bussing barely ever happens.
Hmm I think theres been a bit of confusion because I quote your #571 where Sinz already had plurality.

Anyways, I'm not obviously not trying to halt your case or disregard the entire thing, I'm just saying that I'm not going to clear SwordsR in my mind simply because every single player has noted (and not voted) that he could be a good lynch or was suspicious of him. Since every player did it, then if he's scum, his partners did it, but so did every single townie. And I wouldn't really call remarks bussing as they don't lead to lynches but votes do, and there are like 8 votes out that aren't on SwordsR.

I dont see anything that disqualifies him as a good lynch.

I guess you can tell by my activity that today I got a day off. Lol.
 

Pierre the Scarecrow

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And finally I will unvote Sinz because I want to hear from KevinM and I also can possibly see myself choosing SwordsR instead. I don't think its out of the question to ask SwordsR to claim, as well.

unvote

Cacti a few days ago was also in my sights but things seem to have died down vs. him as they have closed in on Sinz+SwordsR as deadline has neared closer.

Also, awaiting KevinM's response because I think I asked him a good question and some people have him in their sights too.
 

Omni

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or maybe because u do things like quote one person and change who the quote was made by
 

Hitman JT

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wait...how the f...

oh i know what happened. i still had that post from Sinz multi-quoted for whatever reason when i quoted pierre and just deleted s**t. my bad :/
 

Riddle

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I am against a Swords lynch at this point. There is no way that Cacti vs. Swords is SvS, and I really think that Cacti is scum. However, Caci is not going to get lynched and tunneling is useless. So, I'm going to Unvote

Swords and Sinz are the possible lynch candidates at this point most likely and Sinz seems like a much better option in my opinion. I don't think Swords is mafia, and I do think Sinz has been playing scummily. Furthermore, he didn't claim a powerrole which both heightens his chances of being mafia (mafia don't usually claim obvious power roles like doc/cop in my experience) and means they we aren't going to be lynching someone whose night action could really help town.

tl;dr I want Sinz lynched unless anyother options (Cacti) become possible candidates.
 

SwordsRbroken

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I also don't understand why Macman is his (Swords') primary suspect.
Alright, WT* man. I never said he was my primary suspect! Sinz has made no effort to defend himself against his lynch, only made excuses like: "As i look back on that post, i realize how stupid that was." And Cacti, he's just trying to bandwagon me. He made little to no effort to defend himself when he was at L-3, which makes me suspicious. He's been just solidly on my lynch most of the game.

FoS: Cacti
 

#HBC | marshy

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im still okay with sinz lynch. mafia are often given safeclaims to blend in with town so i dont put much stock in nameclaims
 

Cacti

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Swords, L-3 is hardly something to worry about, especially early in the game. L-3? Really? Also, I was at "L-3" for hardly any time before you unvoted me and the pressure was off. You were at "L-3", L-2, L-1, shifting for a very long period of time and you hardly defending yourself.

I'd prefer a swords lynch as I'm not feeling right about Sinz right now due to me being sure that the villians in pheonix wright flavor are the village and Pheonix Wright is mafia, but maybe I'm just looking into claims too much. I'm also not sure if safeclaims given to mafia are the norm here or not, but I'll switch to him if I have to once the deadline comes.
 

Hitman JT

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Actually Marshy's right. FF7 Mafia gave safeclaims to scum and indies so I won't be surprised if we have them here too. And scum are more likely to claim vanilla townie than a power role.
 

#HBC | Mac

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why are scum more likely to claim VT. I know if i were scum id claim a fake pr. Claiming VT doesn't make people wanna keep you alive nor is there a chance that the actual role would cc.

Sinz nameclaim shouldn't really factor in your decision since the possibility of fake claims is possible and cuz any mafia would just pick a random character to claim anyways. Theyre not gonna be like, "welp, I'm scum so i don't have legit claim"
 

Omni

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ASSUME mafia and indies have safe-claims. this is the approach everyone should take.

if mafia didnt have a safe claim it makes name claiming MUCH more dangerous due to obvious counterclaims.

so less talk about semantics of nameclaims and more about scummy behavior i.e. playing mafia
 

Cacti

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Also, about the disconnection method, it's not really good imo. Sometimes mafia don't show anything with their buddies; they actively go against them. Also, in epicmafia, I heard that people were covering up their roles on day starts so they would play just like town for the first day. Also, ever thought that Swords could be indy?
 

#HBC | Mac

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Yes swords can be indy. We already covered the possibility of swords's partners both bussing him. I personally think its highly unlikely, some others disagree. End of that story.

Don't get what your point about epicmafia is.
 

Omni

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ive explained this before. disconnection only works well day 1 and usually during the early moments of the game. its not solid or set in stone. but when u see a post when a person draws up a 2 page essay to FOS someone on D1 they will more than likely not be associated with each other. as soon as i mentioned this method, it became useless since everything from that point is WIFOM material for Mafia to use.

its not something that's set in stone. you can, tho, find obvious d/c's if u use discretion and logic i.e. Pierre/Mac.

i would rather we stop talking about semantics and seriously settle with who's the lynch candidates and why. enough nameclaim/dc method mumbo jumbo talk when there are 3 days left

im still down for both mentos and sinz altho moreso sinz from my previous explanations. who is not on the sinz bandwagon and why.
 

KevinM

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Like I get where you're coming from Pierre I really do but what you're basically asking is why I would call him out on it because it's a town thing to play anti-town.

I've told scummy players they're doing it wrong all the time, *shrugs*. Doesn't mean I think they're town it means, if you really wanted to play townie you're doing a terrible like job of it.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Swords is @ L-3, Sinz is @ L-2 and the deadline is like tomorrow. If there's no majority there'll be a NL so please make up your minds on whom you wanna lynch and why @ ppl who have their vote on somebody else. Please do this right in time. As fo Sinz's claim ... it's convincing. Just as convincing as the typical mafia safeclaim. My vote stays.

:059:
 

Riddle

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I'm going to hammer soon. Anything anyone else wants to say before I do so? Hammer is getting dropped at 12:00 (noon) EST.
 

Sinz

The only true DR vet.
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1 more vote. I had a fun time guys. :D I learned a lot of and will definitely be doing some more mafia(at a much much later time.). It was good!
 

Riddle

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Sinz do you have anything game-related to say before I drop teh hammer? If you flip town it would be helpful to have your opinions.
 
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