Peach's Frame Data

[hotgarbage]

Well yeah. What I believe is that the duration is just up to the soonest cancelable frame. So f-smash with IASA ends at frame 40 and not soon.

Yap. In brawl IASA means "for all practical purposes this move is over", so I presented it as such in the OP.

 

[Meru.]

...so Peach's Fsmash is really that laggy? I thought it was faster

Oh well, nvm then. ;p

 

[LanceStern]

No I really don't see good IASA for fsmash. I've tried buffering jabs and it's kinda slow compared to a lot of people.

Now dtilt is amazing in IASA data

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'm very unsure about what some stuff means so I wouldn't mind if someone could clarify some stuff for me

- How do you read the 'advantages'? I'm assuming a minus advantage is bad for us?
- Similar to the previous question, what do the Jab1 'advantages' mean?
- How does shield stun/shield advantage/shield drop advantage work? An example would be extremely useful, I'm assuming its got something to do with how many frames your opponent has to react whilst you're stuck doing something?
- What's the frame data for crouch cancelling Jab 1 into something else?

 

[Meru.]

Gonna try to make this as clear as possible.

- How do you read the 'advantages'? I'm assuming a minus advantage is bad for us?
- How does shield stun/shield advantage/shield drop advantage work? An example would be extremely useful, I'm assuming its got something to do with how many frames your opponent has to react whilst you're stuck doing something?

It's pretty simple, but it does have some rules. If you're disadvantaged, you have that amount of lag.

Examples:

Peach's Usmash has a shield advantage of -24. This is really bad, because we now have 24 frames of lag and thus, the opponent can punish Peach within these 24 frames without us being to do a thing.

Peach's Dair (when autocancelled) has a much better shield advantage of -3. This means our opponent only has 3 frames of punishing us, meaning that Peach can beat a shield grab with her frame 2 jab.

Peach's Fair has an amazing shield advantage: 0. This means that our opponent cant reliably punish us at all, since we might as well be in a neutral stance: neither has any advantage after all. Jab/Ftilt beats their grab too. The same goes for autocancelled Bair.

BUT there is something like shield drop advantage. To do most attacks OoS, you will have to drop your shield first. A shield drop takes 7 frames.

Example:
Jab hits on frame 2.
Shield drop = 7.
Jab OoS hits on 2 + 7 = 9 frames.

Ftilt hits on frame 6.
Shield drop = 7.
Ftilt OoS hits on 13 frames.

There are however, commands/attacks that ignore shield drop. These attacks ignore the 7 frames of shield drops. These attacks are:

Grab
Jump
Roll
Spotdodge
UpB
Usmash

Example:
Grab hits on frame 6.
There is no shield drop!
Grab OoS is 6 frames.

Jump gets activated on frame 5.
Nair hits on frame 3.
Nair OoS hits on 5 + 3 = 8 frames.

Peach is regarded as a very safe character, because not only does she have very little frame disadvantages, but she is also able to avoid grabs, especially with her jab.

- Similar to the previous question, what do the Jab1 'advantages' mean?

The amount of time you have to hit with another attack, after cancelling jab (so jab2 is always guaranteed, because you dont have to cancel jab1). The numbers aren't that great as you can see.

- What's the frame data for crouch cancelling Jab 1 into something else?

Worse than buffering the actual attack, with the possible exception of jab1 itself.

 

[deepseadiva]

Incredible explanation Yaaay.

Peach's Uair has a much better shield advantage of -5. This means our opponent only has 5 frames of punishing us, but fortunately, jab is fast enough to beat the grab.

I think the numbers here might be a tad erroneous though.

If we have a 5 frame disadvantage with uair, and grabs usually comes out on frame 6, doesn't that mean a 2 frame jab doesn't cut it? I don't think even a 1 frame jab works, since the grab and jab would both appear on the same frame and the grab would have grab armor.

 

[Meru.]

Hmm... yes I think, you're right about that. I'll change that, thanks!

EDIT: Replaced Uair with Dair. I wanted to show that even though you're disadvantaged, you can still be quite safe and Dair's frame advantages are better for that. Not to mention it's a bit more practical that Uair @_@

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I hate peach frame data, way to overpowered : (

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Cheers Yaaay that makes things a hell of a lot clearer

Worse than buffering the actual attack, with the possible exception of jab1 itself

I just meant crouch cancelling Jab 1 - if you attempt to attack during Jab 1's cooldown, don't you end up using Jab 2 instead?

Just wondering how many frames the opponents have and whether Jab 1 --> Crouch Cancel --> Something else would work if the opponent doesn't do Action X

 

[Meru.]

I just meant crouch cancelling Jab 1 - if you attempt to attack during Jab 1's cooldown, don't you end up using Jab 2 instead?

Just wondering how many frames the opponents have and whether Jab 1 --> Crouch Cancel --> Something else would work if the opponent doesn't do Action X

I know you meant that ;p. It's the same as the normal advantages, and "crouch cancelling" it (you have got to be careful with this term though, as it can be confused with Melee's crouch cancel and that is something whole different) should not give extra amount of start-up. At least, when done perfectly.

 

[Cook]

Can one of you Peach nerdz answer a question for me plz??? How many frames are there between Peach's jab and her grab? Like, how long do you have to do something before her grab comes out if she tries to grab out of jab 1? Thanks for the help I'm sure someone will give me!!!

 

[Meru.]

Can one of you Peach nerdz answer a question for me plz??? How many frames are there between Peach's jab and her grab? Like, how long do you have to do something before her grab comes out if she tries to grab out of jab 1? Thanks for the help I'm sure someone will give me!!!

Jab1 advantages
-1 adv: Diddy, Shiek, Falco, Wolf, CF,
0 adv: Bowser, Wario, Link, Ganon, MK, Fox, Pika, Squirtle, Ike, Sonic, zss
+1 adv: Mario, Yoshi, IC, Charizard, Lucas, Snake, DK
+2 adv: TL, DDD, Ivy, Ness, G&W, ROB
+3 adv: Luigi, Peach, Zelda, Samus, Lucario, Marth
+4 adv: Kirby, Olimar,
+7 adv: jigglypuff

However, you have to take into account that jab1 sends you into an aerial state, so ehh...I don't know.

 

[Cook]

O.o
I'm not really sure what that chart means. But I guess you said you don't really know the answer anyway. Well, thanks for trying! Basically I just want to find out if dolphin slashing Peach out of her jab>grab says anything about your reaction time, haha. Oh well, I'm sure it's not hard because I'm pretty sure I have slow reaction time, lol.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

@Cook

Jab 1:
Duration: 19
Hits on Frame: 2
Hitbox Duration: 2-3 (2)
Cooldown: 16
Frames Jab 1 can be cancelled into second jab: 8-30

Shield stun: 1
Shield Advantage: -16
Shield drop advantage: -9

Standing grab
Duration: 29
Hits on Frame: 6
Hitbox Duration: 6-7 (2)
Cooldown: 22

Dash Grab
Duration: 39
Hits on Frame: 6
Hitbox Duration: 6-7 (2)
Cooldown: 32



Peach's Jab hits on frame 2 but it lasts 19 frames max (has a cooldown of 16 frames after it connects) provided she doesn't cancel into Jab 2. But I think as Yaaay pointed out, if the Jab connects then Peach has a certain frame advantage depending on the character she's hitting

Assuming you're talking about Marth...she has a +3 (aka 3 frame) advantage on Marth when Jab connects so she's got 3 frames to do whatever she pleases (assuming Marth hasn't like Yaaay said DI'ed/popped up into the air which might increase her advantage)...
...however 3 frames isn't really a lot of frames that you can do something with - and it isn't enough for her to get a grab in and especially not a running grab since you have to add 5(?) frames in to take into account the dash start up

But let's assume Peach lands her Jab, you're on the ground and you're close enough so that she is in standing grab range. Assuming all this, she has a +3 frame advantage on you and grab comes out frame 6...so technically you have 3 frames to do something about it

Looking at Dolphin Slash

Dolphin Slash
Invincible frames: 1-5
Hit: 5-11
Landing Lag: 34
Shield Stun: 13

Peach's grab would get you on the 3rd frame of Dolphin Slash (assuming all of the above) except you're invincible during that time so you'll avoid getting grabbed and then smack Peach out of her grab attempts



tl;dr Ignoring Jigglypuff, there are (optimally) between 2 - 7 frames (depending on which character you're using) in which you can do something to try and avoiding Peach grabbing you. So with Marth, you can always get a Dolphin Slash in if she tries to grab you
That's for a standing grab - for a dash grab, it'd be between around 7 - 12 frames

As for your reaction time...well, I dunno that's up to your interpretation as to whether it was good or not lol


I think that's all right - if someone could verify all that I'd be grateful

 

[Cook]

^This was helpful, thanks!