Peach in Brawl- (now with video!)

[White-Peach]

A comment about DownB pulling a peach (item) and having it sit on the ground--Wouldn't this be bad if you implemented easy sliding pulls (even if not)? You'd be all ready to have a turnip to defend yourself, and instead give your opponent, hot on your already amazing heels, a recovery item.

Also, change Toad's spores to hearts. Touch Toad, get luvs. <3

 

[Xyless]

A comment about DownB pulling a peach (item) and having it sit on the ground--Wouldn't this be bad if you implemented easy sliding pulls (even if not)? You'd be all ready to have a turnip to defend yourself, and instead give your opponent, hot on your already amazing heels, a recovery item.

probably. *goes on*

Also, change Toad's spores to hearts. Touch Toad, get luvs. <3

that's actually an interesting idea.

 

[Xyless]

I am pretty sure this wasn't mentioned, but I am letting you choose which weapon to use with your fsmash. It was one of the few things from the old Peach- that I felt was an amazing idea. It looks a little wonky since she will always randomly choose a weapon to charge, but when swinging POOF it magically changes. Anyway, I believe this is how it was set up, and if not, it is how I am setting it up.

-Fsmash tilted up: Frying pan. Being the upward hitting smash, it makes sense.
-Fsmash tilted down: Golfclub. After all, it is a golf club.
-Fsmash not tilted up or down: Racket.

I'm also probably going to have the frying pan have a fire effect...maybe. depends on how it looks.

 

[_Keno_]

-Fsmash tilted up: Frying pan. Being the upward hitting smash, it makes sense.
-Fsmash tilted down: Golfclub. After all, it is a golf club.
-Fsmash not tilted up or down: Racket.

That would be nice, but don't you choose which way to tilt right before the smash, and not on charge-up?
If so, what what her charge animation show her holding? (I may be wrong, I dont play any characters that have tilted smashes.)

I wish they did something like this for brawl or brawl+

 

[Xyless]

The tilt direction is chosen the moment you release the charge (or if you don't charge, then right when you have the move go off). That's why, when she charges, she still has whatever weapon her randomizer action gives her: the weapon replacement hasn't happened yet.

The tilt won't make it look any different, though, since she doesn't have a tilted smash animation (like ROB or Luigi). Before, her tilted smashes (like most chars) just have a goto call to her normal, not tilted fsmash. This modifier removes that call and designates the weapon instead of giving the randomizer free reign.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Great work so far But...I don't know, she just isn't broken enough if you ask me

The Peach Bomber idea at first didn't strike me but I can see the masssive potential for mindgames and tech chasing, can you cancel it with a Float? Being able to cancel it with a Float would be a very good idea so you don't collide head on into something and you can also throw your opponents/bait a reaction. Linked to the Peach Bomber change, perhaps you could get rid of all the landing lag on Nair and improve Nair as an attack move - using Peach Bomber and then Nair looks to be the safest mode of attack

What you could do is allow her to cancel all her aerials into a Float at any point. Not only would this help the Peach Bomber change but it would give her much safer options/more baiting material

Maybe its me but the new Turnip mechanic is really really awkward. I really don't like the way you throw the Turnip when you pull it up and having to do a D Tilt before it just seems uneccesary. My suggestion woul be to either get rid of her throwing it instantly or keep the Turnip pull like it normally is but create a kind of Earthquake or Donkey Kong headbutt effect if anyone is within a certain area, that way she's protected to a certain extent. You can still do bone walking right? Sliding earthquakes/ground pounds ftw?

I still stand by that I think the final hit of Dair should be a lethal spike

These are all suggestions though, I do like what you've done with Peach. I realise getting around PSA is tricky but you seem to be having a lot bette luck than I did xD How are you planning on altering specific Turnips btw? They're all filed under Article 2 aren't they? I never saw any indication as to the different kinds of Turnips

Edit: One final suggestion, maybe change Golf Club to the untilted F Smash? In my experience, Golf Club is the F Smash you want 90% of the time, not having to tilt is much easier

And maybe get rid of that horrific Bair ending lag

 

[Xyless]

I still haven't checked exactly what is what with the smashes, but the more I tink about it, the more I think I will make club the untilted.

The autofloat while aerialing sounds interesting, will see what I can do.

And yes, you can cancel Peach's bomber with a float. In the videos I have posted, I was still tinkering with Peach. But after using her a ton yesterday at a big smashfest, she is amazing with mindgames. I also made a few changes (fthrow buff, turnips back to old) which made her more potential.

I'll get more vids of my peach up tomorrow from the smashfest. She's too good.

 

[White-Peach]

So, I have another idea!

Make toad a horizontal windbox! Make it only active from far away. It would be completely ineffective in close-quarters, but , you could push campers (falco) back off the stage, and be able to attack him :D It would be useless for anything but countering (which is already mostly useless) and messing with campers who camp with no intention of approaching (falco.) Make the animation have toad pop out backwards, and do a single horizontal "spore" hah :D

 

[Crystalorbie]

May as well add my input.

Her downsmash...

I saw one that a friend of mine had that he called "Umbrella Peach" which always had her umbrella out, and changed her Fsmash to the Parasol Kirby's normal attack in Kirby Superstar (thrusts the parasol out and sends tiny damaging wind thingies from the force of it)

But the downsmash change on it was extremely interesting.

It did the normal animation, was kinda weakened in knockback to trap opponents, then right as it finished, before the victims could get knocked away by the spin, she followed with a lightning quick uptilt, which dealt its normal damage and knockback, but was far quicker than the normal uptilt.

I also believe her jump looked alot more like her Nair, but with Zelda's sparkly magic effects applied to it, and it went about twice as high as her normal one, unless only tapped, then it goes up very little, about half/three quarters of her normal jump. (no damage form the spin or the sparkles though)

Just two things to consider... (the Dsmash and jump, as the Fsmash was to describe the premise of Umbrella Peach, unless you want that to replace one of her other weapons...)

 

[Xyless]

May as well add my input.

Her downsmash...

I saw one that a friend of mine had that he called "Umbrella Peach" which always had her umbrella out, and changed her Fsmash to the Parasol Kirby's normal attack in Kirby Superstar (thrusts the parasol out and sends tiny damaging wind thingies from the force of it)

But the downsmash change on it was extremely interesting.

It did the normal animation, was kinda weakened in knockback to trap opponents, then right as it finished, before the victims could get knocked away by the spin, she followed with a lightning quick uptilt, which dealt its normal damage and knockback, but was far quicker than the normal uptilt.

I also believe her jump looked alot more like her Nair, but with Zelda's sparkly magic effects applied to it, and it went about twice as high as her normal one, unless only tapped, then it goes up very little, about half/three quarters of her normal jump. (no damage form the spin or the sparkles though)

Just two things to consider... (the Dsmash and jump, as the Fsmash was to describe the premise of Umbrella Peach, unless you want that to replace one of her other weapons...)

Yeeeaaah, not only do I really not like any of those ideas, using those would be taking from another project without permission, so that's pretty much not gonna happen. They sound interesting, though.

 

[Crystalorbie]

I understand the project taking part, as somewhere here or in the brawl- forums you guys said you weren't going to do that. (I posted without remembering it, sorry)

But you really don't like any of those, not even just as regular moveset changes? (in particular I just liked the way the downsmash worked in it, following with the uptilt made it awesome to me)

 

[Xyless]

hi guys sup

k bye

 

[Xyless]

As of yesterday, we made a pretty big breakthrough with Peach's code, so we might be able to make some major changes to her before the next update.

I'm trying to get 2 more ideas for Peach's turnips, and how to make them different. I figured I'd post here to see if I can get any input.

If we can figure out everything in time, here's a few new turnip ideas. None have been coded, just conceptualized if we can figure everything out:

NORMAL: This is just going to replace the normal =) face. Don't think it'll be changed.

BOO: Probably won't be added, but I'll list it. Boo would steal either items or health, haven't decided (or if it's even possible). If possible, do this and not flinch the opponent (and go through).

FREEZING: This will be as rare as the stitchface used to be (d'oh ho ho is that a hint of a change?), and will be a blue color. It freezes.
NOTE: I'm not happy with the current look of the texture in comparison to fire's, so I'll probably redo it.

FIRE: This will be uncommon, but not rare. Similar to the OoO and ^_^ faces in rarity, proably. It is red in color, and does fire damage, probably higher knockback.

JIGGS: This is another rare turnip, and it will do 0 damage, but if it hits you when you are on the ground, you are put to sleep. I would make it do 0 damage because it puts to sleep, and adding damage multiplies how long sleep lasts (for example, G&W's 4 hammer does 4 damage and sleeps, and you sleep for 20 seconds even with struggle).

NEW STITCH: The stitchface will be unchanged in the air, but on the ground, it acts as a deku nut, stunning you in place. I plan on doing this because stitch always looked like it would stun to me.

EDIT: Note that none of these are for sure, as I am trying to get more and more creative with the turnips. I don't want her turnips to be just like G&W's hammer (which also does ice, fire, sleep, stun, and "normal").

 

[Airgemini]

That's some pretty cool ideas.

 

[Xyless]

I'll try to get in-game views of the turnips tonight.

I'm lookin for any idea you guys can throw at me. No matter how silly. I'm trying to get creative with these.

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

the second hit of dash attack having a windbox,
being able to cancel the first hit of dash attack into upsmash.
Also the d-throw possibly being a techchase
d-tilt automatically pulling out a turnip while doing the move

 

[Xyless]

the second hit of dash attack having a windbox

No.

being able to cancel the first hit of dash attack into upsmash.

Maybe...doesn't have to be just usmash.

Also the d-throw possibly being a techchase

Do you mean leaving them on the ground?

d-tilt automatically pulling out a turnip while doing the move

No, but I'm probably going to speed up the dtilt somewhat and change the angle of the spike to be away from Peach instead of towards.

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

yea i mean leaving them on the ground.

 

[Xyless]

I've done that, and it doesn't really match the animation, plus the cooldown of her getting up from it makes it impossible to techchase.

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

o ok
im trying to think of more ideas lol

 

[Xyless]

It's all good. I'm always looking for more things, of course. I'm just very picky.

 

[Meru.]

Lol. Tbh, I think you should focus waaaay more in buffing her. New items, are great, but... It won't help much if they're rare.

Btw, is it possible to change the turnip Peach plucks in game, with for example her taunt?

Example:
Peach plucks turnip A. She taunts. She can now only pluck turnip B. She taunts. Turnip C. Taunt. Turnip D. Taunt. Back to turnip A.

It would be really interesting, but I'm afraid it's probably impossible ;_;.

 

[Xyless]

Nope, that's not possible, and would be way too broken. Just taunt until you pluck only stitches. Done.

Back on task, for the next update, we greatly changed her pluck chances, so her "good" turnips and items are pulled more commonly (but not to the point where they're all she plucks). We also added 3 actual items (smoke ball, pitfall, and lip's stick) and might add a few more tonight depending on how testing goes.

She also can interrupt her (closed) Parasol with anything other than specials, so she isn't helpless and she can actually use her parasol offensively. There was one more thing...what was it...

Oh, we also made it so turnips don't disappear when they hit people, hit the ground, or hit shields. I'm unsure about how I feel about them not disappearing on the ground (having stitches lying around for a few seconds is unnerving), but I'm trying to test it out.


EDIT: The reason Peach doesn't have any mega ridiculous buffs should be pretty darn clear to Peach players in general. Peach is a pressure character, and she can already rack up insane damage in little time in vBrawl, where hitstun is minimal. However, in Brawl-, hitstun is huge, and the inability to airdodge out of tumble makes it even harder to avoid her hits. Thus, she has an extremely easy time knocking people around as if they were rag dolls, then finish off with either a fair, fthrow, ftilt, or fsmash. There are others, those are just her most reliable killing options due to the increase in knockback and growth with them.

 

[Meru.]

Nope, that's not possible, and would be way too broken. Just taunt until you pluck only stitches. Done.

Her turnips would have been balanced in that case, of course.

EDIT: The reason Peach doesn't have any mega ridiculous buffs should be pretty darn clear to Peach players in general. Peach is a pressure character, and she can already rack up insane damage in little time in vBrawl, where hitstun is minimal. However, in Brawl-, hitstun is huge, and the inability to airdodge out of tumble makes it even harder to avoid her hits. Thus, she has an extremely easy time knocking people around as if they were rag dolls, then finish off with either a fair, fthrow, ftilt, or fsmash. There are others, those are just her most reliable killing options due to the increase in knockback and growth with them.

And Peach is the only one who profits from hitstun? The whole cast gets retarted stuff, and it's not like they don't get buffed by hitstun. With such a mindset, Peach- will remain bottom tier forever.

 

[Xyless]

Or maybe if people learned how to use her instead of picking her up and getting frustrated that they can't win with her immediately, she wouldn't be bottom tier.

Mikey, for example, became undefeatable once he learned how to mindgame with her. She got some pretty powerful buffs with her fsmash (being able to control it in particular) and tilts, plus quite a few of her grounded attacks were buffed as well. Her aerials were untouched from vBrawl other than her fair, similar to how Kirby's grounded smashes were untouched from vBrawl other than the slide on his fsmash. Because they're already mega effective.

 

[Peachkid]

Edit: No need to rant anymore =D

 

[Xyless]

A video of what's to come in the future?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bspfKto2QF4

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

ok those improvements are really awesome, i wanted to see you hit with a fully charged up-smash though/see how it's more powerful.

 

[Airgemini]

I like the dash attack change the most from what I saw.
Does the heart only appear if you charge the Usmash?

 

[Xyless]

No, it shows up no matter what. She has to do the animation no matter what, which is why the old usmash feels so slow. If you see it in utilt form, it looks mega fast...I didn't change a thing about it other than take it off of the smash.

And in case you're wondering (I forgot that I whiffed on the up smash in this video), a fully charged up smash SHOULD kill around 120, maybe a little bit less on Ness.

EDIT: The reason I switched up smash and up tilt is because I feel that, given up tilt's immense range, it was far more suitable for a smash (kill attack that can be charged), while the up smash, with its janky and small hitbox, would be more suitable on her tilt...plus, who doesn't like hearts that destroy people?

YET ANOTHER EDIT: The up smash (heart) got a buff in damage and knockback growth, by the way. It didn't kill good enough back when it was a tilt in my eyes.

 

[Peachkid]

No, it shows up no matter what. She has to do the animation no matter what, which is why the old usmash feels so slow. If you see it in utilt form, it looks mega fast...I didn't change a thing about it other than take it off of the smash.

And in case you're wondering (I forgot that I whiffed on the up smash in this video), a fully charged up smash SHOULD kill around 120, maybe a little bit less on Ness.

EDIT: The reason I switched up smash and up tilt is because I feel that, given up tilt's immense range, it was far more suitable for a smash (kill attack that can be charged), while the up smash, with its janky and small hitbox, would be more suitable on her tilt...plus, who doesn't like hearts that destroy people?

YET ANOTHER EDIT: The up smash (heart) got a buff in damage and knockback growth, by the way. It didn't kill good enough back when it was a tilt in my eyes.

MAKE THE HAERTZ EXPLOZIONZ!!!!11111iii!!

I think that the fully charged usmash should kill at like 100 on the dead middleweights. *shrugs* thats just me. eh i just havent seen the usmash in action yet so i cant really draw a good enough conclusion


You dont have to but i really am liking the changes, i still think there should be some Zelda usmash properties about it however ^_-

 

[Nicole]

i like your new video. you've really given peach some much needed ground mobility.

however, can you make the golf club the one that needs to be not tilted at all? i dont ever tilt my smashes (i doubt other peaches are very used to it either) and it'd be most useful to have the club all the time.

also, and i know that peach bomber -> aerial has been in brawl- forever now, i just dont think its that great AS COMPARED to giving her say, jigglypuff airspeed on her float. peach bomber is great, but you must commit to an approach. if her float was as quick as peach bomber, you wouldn't have to do that anymore. you could weave in and out with no worry of punishment. it would really make peach untouchable. perhaps just give peach bomber no lag and give peach great airspeed?

also, i like rick's thinking...peach needs a spike

 

[Nicole]

internet!!
*shakes fist*

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

well you can float out of bomber and go really fast and if you just hold forward during the smash i think the glof club will always come out. But I'm really hyped for canceling dash attack. Peach's d-tilt always spikes now if they're in the air i think......
also could you take the possibility of pulling a smoke bomb out, that is really an annoying thing to pull and really doesn't help in any way and just tends to **** me over X.X.

 

[GoofBall]

I have been playing Brawl- for about a week now, and I am addicted to canceling Bomber, of course, and I LOVE pitfalls to free Usmash kill. Haha.

The thing I think Peach needs in B- is an aerial spike. Not sure if any of this has been said at all or anything,

But I think that the second hit box of Bair (float canceled) should be a spike. With 2 full floats now, it would not be hard to hit them off the ledge, and Bair float cancel, then float again back. Haha.


Something like that. Not sure...

 

[Xyless]

i like your new video. you've really given peach some much needed ground mobility.

however, can you make the golf club the one that needs to be not tilted at all? i dont ever tilt my smashes (i doubt other peaches are very used to it either) and it'd be most useful to have the club all the time.

Already is! Her pan is up-tilted fsmash, tennis racket is down-tilted fsmash, and golf club is untilted fsmash, since it's the most well-rounded of the three and has the most range.

also, and i know that peach bomber -> aerial has been in brawl- forever now, i just dont think its that great AS COMPARED to giving her say, jigglypuff airspeed on her float. peach bomber is great, but you must commit to an approach. if her float was as quick as peach bomber, you wouldn't have to do that anymore. you could weave in and out with no worry of punishment. it would really make peach untouchable. perhaps just give peach bomber no lag and give peach great airspeed?

A plan that I'm going to do in a later build (not Apex's build) is that I'm going to try to increase her fast fall speed and actual ground movement. That should complete her movement speed problems, in my eyes, while keeping her float controllable and possible to speed up.

also, i like rick's thinking...peach needs a spike

dtilt spikes super well now, and is very spammable. I'll have to look into it for later.

also could you take the possibility of pulling a smoke bomb out, that is really an annoying thing to pull and really doesn't help in any way and just tends to **** me over X.X.

I added the Smoke Ball to balance the fact that we greatly increase the chance of pulling items (and, in the same category, stitchfaces).

 

[Xyless]

Oh right, before I forget, this is the latest addition to Peach (including physics and a shiny new "bonewalk"!), developed by me and TheEnigmaLiesBroken, and coded by TELB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUctU4pu44

(I also changed her airdodge, so she is now invincible from frame 3-29 and her animation is about 42 frames long)

 

[Moozle]

Wow that's a long slide. Good job! I can't wait to try Peach in B- again.

 

[Gameswithgoodies]

i really need to up date my brawl- to the latest version D: