Path of Radiance: Ike Guide and Strategy Discussion

[LordShade67]

I've only picked up Ike recently, but does d-tilt have combo potential? I noticed while labbing that jab1 sets up into d-tilt. I know it can combo into f-air at some percents, but does it combo into anything else?

RAR BAir, but that requires practice. I think also FTilt or something at low %s? But typically, you're gonna wanna FAir once you start hitting with DTilt around 30s.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I'm looking for some doubles tech to practice with Ike. I'll be teaming with Fatality at Fusion 2 this weekend and I want to know how to use Ike efficiently in doubles play. Combos and whatnot would be great since we'll be theorycrafting until we enter the match.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Anybody able to replicate this with Ike?

 

[Mario766]

Ryuga has, AFAIK.

It says Ike can't, but the list on the video isn't exactly...accurate.

I haven't played Smash in like 3 weeks and I have a fresh mindset to the game, I kinda want to put out an Ike guide that covers basics and advance tactics along with match-ups.

It'd take forever, though, with my work ethic.

 

[Arrei]

Okay, I'm realizing I have real problems figuring out what to do when my opponent is dash dancing and empty hopping, daring me to approach so they can challenge me with a large, quick, and/or lagless move like Falcon's Uair. A ground approach seems to be the way to go in such a situation, but Ike's strong suit isn't forcing openings, especially against fast opponents with strong grab games, so what are some staple mindgame moves against a defensive opponent? Punishing wasted hops with a dash attack seems to work sometimes, but it's a risky move.

 

[Mario766]

Chill and let them do something.

Ike excels at being patient.

 

[Hanku Hirru]

Chill and let them do something.

This.

Allow them to take the risk and punish accordingly. Chances are, they're trying to bait you into approaching, so play defensively and wait them out.

 

[Crelrn]

Chill and let them do something.

Ike excels at being patient.

This. Also if you don't mind giving up stage control, backing up can be a good tactic, as retreating bair and pivot f-tilt can punish the majority of their options if they commit to something unsafe from their footsies.

 

[Macedonian]

Hey Guys, so I've been in lab mans been playing Ike for a while but there is somthing I'm still struggling to grasp; when to use uptrow verses downthrow.

I know at around zero downthrow Into fair seems to be most consistent. But at what point do I switch to uptrow.i feel like I want to have uptrow be stale to make my kill setups work better. But down throw upair can kill too at like 40 to 60.

Also I like forward air I feel like it's fairly easy to keep the pressure on after forward air, but should I be trying a different airial for more optimal combos? I know I can throw then bair sometimes but I'm not sure how optimal it is to continue with additional follow ups

 

[Mario766]

Up throw works at all percents.

 

[Arrei]

My general rule of thumb is to not use Dthrow once they reach 30%. Against floaties and fast fallers I use Uthrow exclusively, because Dthrow becomes useless on light characters really fast and to stale Uthrow a bit for the kill setup, respectively. Ditto if I have rage, for obvious reasons.

The only time I prefer to use Dthrow is against Bowser and Charizard if I get a grab at 0% - I've missed some Fair combos from them jumping away after a Uthrow that early in the game, so I open with Dthrow in that case.

 

[Mario766]

If you missed the combo you didn't buffer your F-Air correctly.

Only way to put it. Down Throow does make it more consistent but you want it fresh and up throw stale.

 

[Macedonian]

So you guys are saying you never try to combo down throw to upair for a kill? I've had it work on light charachters for a kill rediculously early

 

[Arrei]

If you missed the combo you didn't buffer your F-Air correctly.

Only way to put it. Down Throow does make it more consistent but you want it fresh and up throw stale.

Possibly, and being online it could just be lag, but I buffer it the same way as I do against any other character, and it's only ever missed against those two. And not just a one-off thing, I occasionally run into other Bowsers and Zards who pull the same thing. I haven't seen any other characters be able to act out of a 0% Uthrow, let alone jump entirely out of the way. I just chalked them up to Bowser receiving slightly less hitstun than others due to his weight reducing the knockback and Charizard being unexpectedly floaty for a heavy.


As for Dthrow - Uair, if you got a kill off of it it certainly wasn't true, yes? Dthrow typically sends the opponent much higher than Uthrow does, so even if they reflexively air dodge afterward you can't capitalize on it.

 

[Mario766]

So you guys are saying you never try to combo down throw to upair for a kill? I've had it work on light charachters for a kill rediculously early

Never. It isn't even close to being a true combo.

 

[Macedonian]

Never. It isn't even close to being a true combo.

This is blatantly false, I'm in a car currently but I never go home for the holidays without my handy dandy 3ds, and the road makes for great lab time. Flipped on training mode, vs sheik at 49 percent I just true comboed.

Sure it may be a tiny window and affected by DI, but this being a true combo shows that it has a lot of potential for 50/50 spot dodge setups like with sheiks (or ROB would be more appropriate) downthrow just at a lot earlier percents. And even if they do spots dodge upair has a great chance of still working.

I just worry that when I go for this it makes my up throw kill setups worse by making up throw stay fresh

Edit: sheik comboed up to 55 with downthrow upair, mind as well test floaters while I'm at it... Ok so I only had a few min cause my gf wants to be done driving. But I tested verses luigi with limited success. Downthrow to upair stopped at 35 percent but it seems to me that it was close enough for possible 50/50 situation until about 55. Thinking about that with rage on town and city makes me happy

 

[Mario766]

Okay...

You're talking about KILLING with it.

You aren't killing Sheik at 55 with up-air without massive rage...


Which means the combo doesn't work.

 

[Omegavega]

About the lagless ledge get up,Zan(the guy who MSC says he knows this tech too) said Ike can do it,but still can't do it myself
(sorry forgot to quote the video)

 

[TigerBizNiz]

Any advices on the Mario match up? I'm having trouble recovering because of fludd and cape. Also, I always get combo'd ALOT by those annoying up tilts! He's one of the common characters I keep running into on For Glory.

 

[Omegavega]

Any advices on the Mario match up? I'm having trouble recovering because of fludd and cape. Also, I always get combo'd ALOT by those annoying up tilts! He's one of the common characters I keep running into on For Glory.

Well i usually try to wait what they will do,they usually think you will go for the aether and when that happens you could just use counter and even they used F.L.U.D.D or the cape,you will still have chance to recove,especially cape ,counter it and you can even continue attacking
If you are recovering from below,try to calculate the maximum distance of the aether and you might comeback safely from that annoying F.L.U.D.D
And for the up tilts,i guess it's possible to try to DI down to fall and do a perfect shield but i'm not sure ,they'll just make you think you escape but can continue by grabbing you,so be careful and if you have the chance shield and roll away

 

[TigerBizNiz]

Well i usually try to wait what they will do,they usually think you will go for the aether and when that happens you could just use counter and even they used F.L.U.D.D or the cape,you will still have chance to recove,especially cape ,counter it and you can even continue attacking
If you are recovering from below,try to calculate the maximum distance of the aether and you might comeback safely from that annoying F.L.U.D.D

So do I basically never go for the quick draw? Sometimes I feel like I'm too far from the stage to go for the aether recovery on time so I go for quick draw.

And for the up tilts,i guess it's possible to try to DI down to fall and do a perfect shield but i'm not sure ,they'll just make you think you escape but can continue by grabbing you,so be careful and if you have the chance shield and roll away

Never tried to DI down. I'll give it a shot!

 

[Macedonian]

what I'm trying to say is the lab data and my experience shows seems to suggest that this is a possible kill setup. If it's a TRUE combo at 55 no rage, then you are going to get about 10 to 15 percent where your opponent has to spot dodge or Jump to get away since most attacks loose to up air if well placed, and any trade would be very favorable for Ike since it could result in a kil. Other factors here are rage and if you try rouse down throw first to make sure that the down throw stales. This is all just on sheik, on the heavies this true combos up to 60% these are real mixups that have potential to kill I think.

 

[Funkermonster]

I came here to ask about how Ike generally plays, his pros + cons, and maybe a little insight on how to fight against him. I don't commonly play against this character outside of For Glory (which is obviously not a great ground for competitive play, I dunno why I even still play it lol) and I have little to no ideas about what he is and isn't capable of. The one time I do remember getting any real experience with him was this really good Ike I met at a national many, many months ago in friendlies and I couldn't beat him in even one game and had no clue on how his character works. Although it was a long time ago and I've grown as a player since then, he has now become around #6 on our state PR and he said we might play again, and to this day I STILL am not ready to fight him yet. He's one of the characters I possess the least amount of knowledge about and I never know when I might come up against one, so whatever insight I could be given would be most appreciated. If it matters, my main is and I also play quite a bit too, so maybe that might help with MU advice.

On a miscalleonous note, my mom also got me an Ike amiibo yesterday, I don't use the character but I intend to open the box and play with it so maybe whatever basic info you can give me can help me train it too.

 

[Mario766]

what I'm trying to say is the lab data and my experience shows seems to suggest that this is a possible kill setup. If it's a TRUE combo at 55 no rage, then you are going to get about 10 to 15 percent where your opponent has to spot dodge or Jump to get away since most attacks loose to up air if well placed, and any trade would be very favorable for Ike since it could result in a kil. Other factors here are rage and if you try rouse down throw first to make sure that the down throw stales. This is all just on sheik, on the heavies this true combos up to 60% these are real mixups that have potential to kill I think.

Even if it's a true combo at 55, the attack doesn't knock people back nearly as far as you think. You aren't killing any heavy around 60 with up air unless it's super high up. On the ground you're never getting a kill. The only way to kill with up air is to convert off up throw or catch someone messing up heavily.

 

[Macedonian]

Ok so since I'm being met with disbelief all I can do Is go to the lab. I apologize however that I do not have video evidence but I do not have any capture cards or streaming equipment but if it is that important I will record with my iPhone.

ANYWAY, one huge thing I found is that if you are on a platform this is ****ing dirty. On smashville downthrow upair is a true combo that kills sheik at 55 percent before the grab. This is on the platform wih no rage witch makes me think a little rage will make this kill from the base of the stage and this could make this be quite real up to the low 60s In percent because I love eating air dodges with upair.

Also this is really strong against dedede, true comboed up until 75.

I might lab more later but now I want to actually play so I'ma play some games. Just wanted to post that this is a guranteed kill verses fastfallers with no rage On a platform. I'm going to see how it works as a killer too because it seems to work quite well when your opponent DIs up or left as opposed to forward. Seems like often for me that people DI my forward throw behind me for some reason so just a thought.

 

[Arrei]

A platform changes things, and it might be able to kill then if it's on a low ceiling stage like Smashville or Halberd against a light fastfaller like Sheik. But that doesn't mean you could pull off the same thing from the ground, rage would simply make the Dthrow go too high up for the followup.

 

[Mario766]

To make a comparsion, up throw up air can combo around ~90 for a true combo with no rage on Smashville.

 

[Macedonian]

To make a comparsion, up throw up air can combo around ~90 for a true combo with no rage on Smashville.

I'm saying that way before that it is a possibility to get that sweet spot double jump height with down throw and up air, it may only work on platforms or verses select charachters but honestly I do not find any guranteed kill setup inconsequential, especially verses sheik.

 

[Mario766]

Well on platforms, the percentages would go down heavily. I don't find down throw conversions useful because up throw ones are usually more consistent and lead to better results. Though knowing this could be handy in very specialized circumstances.

If it works on Sheik, it likely works on Fox and ZSS, ZSS being even easier because they fall about the same speed and ZSS is taller, so her hurtbox is bigger vertically.

 

[Macedonian]

well i would wager there are a few magical percents on a few characters that will allow a kill from the floor, im aminly saying if its a guaranteed kill from a platform, i bet there is a few close 50/50 setups on the ground,, at the very least i bet there is a lot of optimization that can be done with using the two throws.

 

[Arrei]

I'm pretty confident in saying no one can be killed by a Dthrow Uair combo from the ground. The percentage range for the Uthrow combo is pretty strict, because if you're slightly off Uair just doesn't pack enough punch to secure the kill. And since Dthrow will reach Ike's maximum reach long before Uair is able to kill from that height, it's not going to work.

 

[Dabos]

Any ideas of good ways to approach characters like Pikachu or Olimar?

 

[Crelrn]

I'll have to lab this tomorrow and see what does and doesn't work.

Any ideas of good ways to approach characters like Pikachu or Olimar?

Ask in Matchups thread

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

I got a couple questions about Ike.
What are his main combos?

Kill moves?

Ive seen that instant kill glitch with Aether, but i have no idea how to replicate it, how do you do it?

How should i play against characters with a water box/cape *cough* Mario *cough*?

How do i escape from juggling characters? I always seem to get punishes for my air-doges...

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Uthrow > fair is really common. Uthrow also combos into nair and bair, I think. It can combo to uair depending on who you're fighting, too. There's also dtilt > fair, nair > fair (not sure if this is a true combo, actually), and back of nair > bair.

The instant kill glitch isn't actually a glitch. To perform it, you have to have a lot of rage and hit your opponent from the first hit of Aether while they're charging a smash attack. Your opponent's knockback is higher if they're hit while charging a smash attack, and the first hit of Aether has really high knockback so that the rest of the hitboxes connect. Add those to rage, the result is an instant kill.

 

[Mario766]

N-Air does combo into F-Air at mid-high percents, can also be a kill confirm at certain percents.

 

[Ekans647]

So a major problem I have encountered with is escaping combos. I'm often in them and have a hard time escaping them. How do I deal with this situation. Does Ike have and moves that can break combos?

Another issue I'm dealing with is the Neutral. How should I act in the neutral? What should I do to optimize my range and pressure the opponent? What setups do I have?

My final question is spacing. I rather good at spacing, considering I also main Marth, but I need some help in general. What and how should I space with Ike. How should I generally be spacing? Can Ike space as well as Marth? What are Ike's best Spacing moves?

Thanks for taking the time to help me!

 

[Mario766]

Depends really on the combos. Ike is more about wisely using your jumps and strong DI to escape combos. He's kinda like Snake from Brawl. You don't have any combo breaking tools but you live to absurd percents and have a decent recovery with high weight. It sounds like if you aren't playing neutral well you aren't focusing on your spacing. Work on that, keep them in sword range and use jabs, down tilts and pivots well.

 

[Aquasition]

So, what do we do when it comes to stage control? especially if their back is to the ledge, and they have a shield up. What do we pressure the shield with?

 

[Mario766]

Spaced aerials, jabs


It's the same thing, you just space.