Data Patch 1.1.5. Let's Discuss The New MK

[Steelballray]

Were you ever successful in getting two up-airs in, just curious.

Vs. Bad DI I got more than 2.

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

More MK combo goodness

Replay-2016-03-18-1704-22.mp4
Replay-2016-03-18-1658-26.mp4

 

[Steelballray]

L

More MK combo goodness

Replay-2016-03-18-1704-22.mp4
Replay-2016-03-18-1658-26.mp4

Looking good.. Can you try some on Rosa?

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

L

Looking good.. Can you try some on Rosa?

Rosa is already super easy to combo with MK. You can pretty much still Uair string her to death at like 15% lol. 0% if MK has rage XD

 

[RosalinA]

Rosa is already super easy to combo with MK. You can pretty much still Uair string her to death at like 15% lol. 0% if MK has rage XD

Are the combos that you showed off usable on every character or just some in a certain group, like heave and/or medium weights?

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

Are the combos that you showed off usable on every character or just some in a certain group, like heave and/or medium weights?

They are really only usable on fast fallers and big characters so that's a pretty big group.

 

[Xanesane]

i feel like the patch was needed as the up air string was a bit overpowered. but if you think about it it kind of helps the metaknight community. instead of trying to get your opponent to a optimal kill percent and then baiting a dash attack or a up tilt. you can start focusing more on getting more optimal percent combos such as dash attack u air x2 to nair that dose 24 percent true. now that we got this necessary. i feel that we can start focusing on a new route for metaknight meta for years to come.

 

[RosalinA]

i feel like the patch was needed as the up air string was a bit overpowered. but if you think about it it kind of helps the metaknight community. instead of trying to get your opponent to a optimal kill percent and then baiting a dash attack or a up tilt. you can start focusing more on getting more optimal percent combos such as dash attack u air x2 to nair that dose 24 percent true. now that we got this necessary. i feel that we can start focusing on a new route for metaknight meta for years to come.

I honestly feel like Meta Knightg was buffedx in this patch, yeah they took out his best combo, but they gave him more confirmed combos that kill just as early. Personally, with Shiek, ZSS, and Cloud being more nerfed than Meta Knight, he's top 3 now, behind Bayonetta (2nd) and Rosa (1st).

 

[Xanesane]

I honestly feel like Meta Knightg was buffedx in this patch, yeah they took out his best combo, but they gave him more confirmed combos that kill just as early. Personally, with Shiek, ZSS, and Cloud being more nerfed than Meta Knight, he's top 3 now, behind Bayonetta (2nd) and Rosa (1st).

ya i agree with that i feel like where gonna see more results from him i cant wait too see whats in store in the meta ahead!

 

[Amadeus9]

I honestly feel like Meta Knightg was buffedx in this patch, yeah they took out his best combo, but they gave him more confirmed combos that kill just as early. Personally, with Shiek, ZSS, and Cloud being more nerfed than Meta Knight, he's top 3 now, behind Bayonetta (2nd) and Rosa (1st).

no

 

[RosalinA]

no

Why?

 

[Zeriora]

I say his top 10. But do not say his Top 3. We just lost one of his best killing tools, yeah we can do more damage, but that doesn't mean we can still get early kills.

 

[New_Dumal]

We can't deny our neutral game is not even top5 at the game.
So why could he be at the top3 ?
I think he still top10, and we need more info and stats to even confirm this speculation.

MK was a great character because even with a bad neutral game, his punish game and kill potential was so huge.
You could transform a error of your opponent at 30% to death.
This was a giant thing in why MK was top10 before.
Now, we need to know what exactly we have and what changes in our MU's.
MK have another good characters that can and probably are more solid than him: Ryu and Cloud are examples.
But I think he is quite strong and is our duty to discover more and more about what he is capable of.Count me in for a while.

 

[warionumbah2]

I honestly feel like Meta Knightg was buffedx in this patch, yeah they took out his best combo, but they gave him more confirmed combos that kill just as early. Personally, with Shiek, ZSS, and Cloud being more nerfed than Meta Knight, he's top 3 now, behind Bayonetta (2nd) and Rosa (1st).

This whole post is just so wrong.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I honestly feel like Meta Knightg was buffedx in this patch, yeah they took out his best combo, but they gave him more confirmed combos that kill just as early. Personally, with Shiek, ZSS, and Cloud being more nerfed than Meta Knight, he's top 3 now, behind Bayonetta (2nd) and Rosa (1st).

Our current toolkit has nothing that replaces the ability to consistently take stocks as early as 0% on lightweight floaties. We still have a potent punish game, but nothing will replace the Death Combo.

We didn't actually gain much out of this patch; and what we gained doesn't compensate for what we lost. Just about everything we've seen thus far that doesn't use Forward Air was already available to us before the patch. It's just now we actually have a reason to use these other combos and setups because Death Combos are mostly unavailable to us against competent opponents.

No one got more nerfed than us. Cloud's nerfs don't even do anything. He's essentially the exact same character as he was the previous patch. Sheik did get hit harder compared to others but she's still very good and still beats us. ZSS' changes are negligible. How you can say we're top 3 is literally nonsense. We're not top 3. We're probably not even top 10. I feel like people just throw arbitrary labels on characters without actually knowing the history of the character as well as the state of the current metagame and the direction its taking. If we're gonna throw out "top ___" labels, we're likely Top 15 to 20 but it will require some time and effort before the rest of the other character communities think we're not trash again. But then again, the core Meta Knight community (the ones who have been around for like a year or more; which is a small number of us) has never actually cared about what they thought. Meta Knight remains one of the most misunderstood characters after all this time. Because people have no idea what they're talking about; like you.

We weren't buffed. We now HAVE to use more than 1/5 of our moveset and it seems like we're playing a brand new character. Forward Air changes are helpful but not game breaking. This character is largely intact but now, it will take even more dedication for him to be utilized properly. It's that simple.

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

While we did get hit with the death combo nerf, it doesn't mean it's completely gone. You are still able to death combo lighter and floaty characters from zero and you can still get X amount of Uairs to UpB with a possible kill on the entire cast but just at higher %s (35-40% are the general DA to Uair %s). People that assume the Uair chains are gone haven't done enough testing to see that they still are there even with proper DI. And people that say MK was top ten just because of the death combo and that he will be mid tier is absurd. Imo, he still is from 7-10th on the tier list but I will go as low as 12th.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

We know it's still there, it's just not as accessible as before. Or most of us know that at least.

 

[RosalinA]

Our current toolkit has nothing that replaces the ability to consistently take stocks as early as 0% on lightweight floaties. We still have a potent punish game, but nothing will replace the Death Combo.

We didn't actually gain much out of this patch; and what we gained doesn't compensate for what we lost. Just about everything we've seen thus far that doesn't use Forward Air was already available to us before the patch. It's just now we actually have a reason to use these other combos and setups because Death Combos are mostly unavailable to us against competent opponents.

No one got more nerfed than us. Cloud's nerfs don't even do anything. He's essentially the exact same character as he was the previous patch. Sheik did get hit harder compared to others but she's still very good and still beats us. ZSS' changes are negligible. How you can say we're top 3 is literally nonsense. We're not top 3. We're probably not even top 10. I feel like people just throw arbitrary labels on characters without actually knowing the history of the character as well as the state of the current metagame and the direction its taking. If we're gonna throw out "top ___" labels, we're likely Top 15 to 20 but it will require some time and effort before the rest of the other character communities think we're not trash again. But then again, the core Meta Knight community (the ones who have been around for like a year or more; which is a small number of us) has never actually cared about what they thought. Meta Knight remains one of the most misunderstood characters after all this time. Because people have no idea what they're talking about; like you.

We weren't buffed. We now HAVE to use more than 1/5 of our moveset and it seems like we're playing a brand new character. Forward Air changes are helpful but not game breaking. This character is largely intact but now, it will take even more dedication for him to be utilized properly. It's that simple.

I agree with you and I do see how saying he was third was a bit stupid (although zero did say sheik is the most nerfed character in the game, so meta knight probably wasn't the most nerfed in this patch) but from what I've been seeing people have been trying really hard in this patch to find combos and if the ones that were posted on this forum are indeed true, then meta knight can still kill just as early as before, just with more things than just up-airs and an up-b, and he kills of to the side more. Also, the old combo still works on characters like Rosa, you just need to fast fall more. Also, Cloud's finishing touch was nerfed, especially in the air, it doesn't even kill Mewtwo at 60, I'm not saying it's not amazing, it's just harder to kill with.

 

[metanight1311]

Hey guys. I'm new to this thread, but I've been looking through it for at least a hour now trying to find new tricks for MK and i want to help out. Currently I've been using my 3ds to test combos. But anyway, I tried forward throw > jump(depends on character but i shorthopped when testing on DK) > Side B at 50% on DK a few min ago. The only downside to this kill is that u lose a stock as well, so its best when u have 2 stocks. And I didn't test DI . But aside from those 2 flaws, this could work as a tool for MK

 

[RosalinA]

Hey guys. I'm new to this thread, but I've been looking through it for at least a hour now trying to find new tricks for MK and i want to help out. Currently I've been using my 3ds to test combos. But anyway, I tried forward throw > jump(depends on character but i shorthopped when testing on DK) > Side B at 50% on DK a few min ago. The only downside to this kill is that u lose a stock as well, so its best when u have 2 stocks. And I didn't test DI . But aside from those 2 flaws, this could work as a tool for MK

Where exactly were you on the stage when doing this? Also, what stage or stages were you on, because meta knight might be able to make it back on some stages, and is the CPU airdodging?

 

[MKchouy]

I can't even tell if half of these are troll posts anymore

 

[RosalinA]

I can't even tell if half of these are troll posts anymore

If it's less than a sentence, it probably is.

 

[warionumbah2]

People should not be posting no DI, no SDI, training mode combos. Period.

 

[metanight1311]

I was using Dreamland 64 as my stage. I positioned the cpu near the edge of the stage. The cpu was not airdodging, but I couldn't find the option to do that on 3ds. To add more, I even tested every character from tier placement 1-15 (1.1.3) and bayonetta. However, the fact that the weren't airdodging may nullify that.

EDIT:using the tree doesn't kill. Use the edge of the stage instead.

 

[RosalinA]

I was using Dreamland 64 as my stage. I positioned the cpu near the edge of the stage. The cpu was not airdodging, but I couldn't find the option to do that on 3ds. To add more, I even tested every character from tier placement 1-15 (1.1.3) and bayonetta. However, the fact that the weren't airdodging may nullify that.

EDIT:using the tree doesn't kill. Use the edge of the stage instead.

Thanks, I think this would be an OK option if you can read an oponnents airdodge, but not something you would normally go for.

 

[metanight1311]

ok. After posting i did try it out in matches and i kept missing. So it would work as a mixup.

 

[New_Dumal]

Drill Rush is a nice move in our arsenal, but is something that we should always go after build some habits.
We can't just Uair->Drill Rush from the scratch and "Oh, maybe if will hit this time."
Drill Rush is high risk/low reward in general, and it's a great finisher when you realize the airdodge pattern at the opponent game, or some missplaced aerial in their neutral.

I still think my favorite use of Drill Rush is punish crazy people who tries to edgeguard a low MK recovery.
The multihit makes it hard to tech and you can down angle it to a suicide kill if you're in advantage.
I got kills from Uair strings to Drill Rush before, but I still think it can't combo at all, and the risk is just too big at almost every situation. More than one crazy Ryu main already tried to break the Uair pressure with a Focus, and Drill Rush works pretty well here.

(I don't know why I posted about Drill Rush, and it's not new stuff at all, but some info above can be usefull and it is a move I believe is a bit underated in our moveset.)

 

[Zeriora]

Drill rush is useless for damage, go for Mach tornado for better damage..

 

[RosalinA]

Drill rush is useless for damage, go for Mach tornado for better damage..

I usually start my games off with down throw to tornado if I can get a grab.

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

I usually start my games off with down throw to tornado if I can get a grab.

You should try to do Dthrow > tornado on floaties or big characters since it's true on them no matter what. Also, at low %s for characters that can't be Bair locked, for example Ganon, DDD, etc., do Dthrow > DA > Uair once or twice depending on your positioning or the opponent's positioning > FF Bair > Turnaround Regrab Dthrow > tornado is around 53% I believe. You could also do SH Uairs into UpB which is more optimal.

 

[Xanesane]

ya i agree hes not top 3 he wasent top 5 before the patch. i still think hes a top 10 charecter though.

 

[Sourpowerpete]

Here's VoiD vs. Tyrant on version 1.1.5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QBEH_9czys&feature=youtu.be&list=PLsoSl1w33CKSW9lrkeVs-JuZHaSNJkr3m

Edit: Don't forget/fail to notice its a playlist. Tyrant reset the bracket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crf_PtpMtd0&index=2&list=PLsoSl1w33CKSW9lrkeVs-JuZHaSNJkr3m

 

[RosalinA]

Here's VoiD vs. Tyrant on version 1.1.5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QBEH_9czys&feature=youtu.be&list=PLsoSl1w33CKSW9lrkeVs-JuZHaSNJkr3m

Edit: Don't forget/fail to notice its a playlist. Tyrant reset the bracket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crf_PtpMtd0&index=2&list=PLsoSl1w33CKSW9lrkeVs-JuZHaSNJkr3m

That's awsome, it's nice to see that even though his butter and bread combo has been nerfed, Meta Knight still gets great results, even against players like Void. Shoutout to Tyrant for winning the tournament.

Edit: I don't believe a single word of what Zero said about Meta Knight. He is still top tier, and his up air combo still works on heavy and floaty characters, you just have to fastfall more up airs, and the combo starts at a higher percent. Also, does the combo still work on fastfallers?

 

[R3D3MON]

Upair combos have been nerfed hard. Check out Jamurai's post in the competitive impressions thread for the huge affects of SDI on uair combos. Basically any sort of SDI will allow opponents to easily escape upair combos, and upair combo strings will stop after only one or two upairs at most with competent players using proper SDI. Drill Rush doesn't combo from anything because the startup on the move is too big.

Another thing to note about the upair nerf: the damage reduction on upair means fastfallers are put into tumble state at %s where upair should combo. This means that upair combos are basically never true on fastfallers after the patch and fastfallers can just get out of upair combos with proper airdodging or counterattack at low %s.

Some of the posts in this thread really reminds me of some of the early posts that people made in the Luigi boards after his mega nerf, where people were saying things like: "D-THROW COMBOS INTO UP SMASH NOW GUIS. OMG YESSS". Or: "D-THROW INTO UP-B. SOOO GUD, LUIGI GOT BUFFED GUIS". Please, let's not repeat this pattern again.

 

[Zeriora]

Upair combos have been nerfed hard. Check out Jamurai's post in the competitive impressions thread for the huge affects of SDI on uair combos. Basically any sort of SDI will allow opponents to easily escape upair combos, and upair combo strings will stop after only one or two upairs at most with competent players using proper SDI. Drill Rush doesn't combo from anything because the startup on the move is too big.

Another thing to note about the upair nerf: the damage reduction on upair means fastfallers are put into tumble state at %s where upair should combo. This means that upair combos are basically never true on fastfallers after the patch and fastfallers can just get out of upair combos with proper airdodging or counterattack at low %s.

Some of the posts in this thread really reminds me of some of the early posts that people made in the Luigi boards after his mega nerf, where people were saying things like: "D-THROW COMBOS INTO UP SMASH NOW GUIS. OMG YESSS". Or: "D-THROW INTO UP-B. SOOO GUD, LUIGI GOT BUFFED GUIS". Please, let's not repeat this pattern again.

It's different though. We know he got nerfed. We STILL know his decent though, luigi is still decent after the patch.. I think his speed and approaching options sets him apart from top tiers, while meta knight has the ability to approach hard and fast, and get a great punish out of it.

 

[R3D3MON]

It's different though. We know he got nerfed. We STILL know his decent though, luigi is still decent after the patch.. I think his speed and approaching options sets him apart from top tiers, while meta knight has the ability to approach hard and fast, and get a great punish out of it.

......I'll just assume this is a troll post because I was explaining exactly how Upair was nerfed because some people were just saying really far-fetched stuff about upair post-patch (and other far-fetched stuff in general). Also on the topic of Luigi, just check out recent tournament results and the Luigi boards to see what happened to Luigi's meta. Done.

 

[Zeriora]

......I'll just assume this is a troll post because I was explaining exactly how Upair was nerfed because some people were just saying really far-fetched stuff about upair post-patch (and other far-fetched stuff in general). Also on the topic of Luigi, just check out recent tournament results and the Luigi boards to see what happened to Luigi's meta. Done.

Not a troll post. Meta knight IS STILL GOOD, wtf are you doing here if you only care about luigi? Meta knight is proving to possibly be not as bad as we thought. Stop Judging until some tournaments actually happen.

 

[R3D3MON]

Zeriora

Please actually read my post.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Zeriora

Please actually read my post.

I read your post, and I dunno about zerlora, but all I could gleam from it was "STOP BEING OPTIMISTIC, YOU GOT NERFED JUST ACCEPT IT GAWD."

 

[Zeriora]

Zeriora

Please actually read my post.

I've read it 3 times, I've explained myself over and over again, there isn't enough proof to prove that Meta Knight has fallen, his Up air got nerfed, YES WE KNOW, But we've found new solutions. Just go back to your luigi section.