Data Patch 1.1.5. Let's Discuss The New MK

Zeriora

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#1
Credit to Katakiri Katakiri for giving me some info on the nerfs & buffs.

This patch has significantly changed meta knights up air, to the point where his death strings seem to be es-capable, when they weren't in the past.

Here's the current patch notes:
  • Uair:
    • Damage: 5 -> 4
    • Angle: 78/78/60 -> 69/69/52
    • SDI Multiplier: 1.0 -> 1.5
  • Fair Landing Lag: 20F -> 16F
I'll update it if more notes pop up.
We need to figure out what this up air means for meta knight as his up air previously made him one of the strongest competitors.

Note: The new up air sends fighters diagonal to where the fighters are heading, previously it wasn't this far.

Lets discuss this in chat.
Cheers!
 
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CaptainVul

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#3
Seems like its still possible to do on Mario at 40% with the back end of the dash attack hitbox instead of 30% of the tip of the dash attack hitbox.

I don't know how much DI effects it though but the combo counter still has it as true on training mode


So there it is still possible if you do it at the back end of the dash attack hitbox at the higher percent that its still true

But once again I don't know how DI effects it, someone with a training partner should try it out
 
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Zeriora

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#4
Seems like its still possible to do on Mario at 40% with the back end of the dash attack hitbox instead of 30% of the tip of the dash attack hitbox.

I don't know how much DI effects it though but the combo counter still has it as true

So there it is still possible if you do it at the back end of the dash attack hitbox at the higher percent that its still true

But once again I don't know how DI effects it, someone with a training partner should try it out
I do believe it's true when the dash hit or grab DI is perfected. But this isn't confirmed.
 
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Katakiri
#7
DI matters a lot for the new Up-Air.

However, while not in the patch notes yet, F-Air's landing lag was reduced from 20 frames to 16. This opens up a lot of new options in neutral; particularly revolving around Hit 1 of F-Air. Hit 1, starting at 65~% against another MK, puts opponents into that low to the ground tumble that forces them to tech or be put into knock-down state. D-Tilt has always none this but only after 100+%. So landing Hit 1 of F-Air basically means, you get a free punish be it a raw Grounded Shuttle Loop, a Dash Attack into Shuttle Loop, Mach Tornado even, and you can tech chase them with F-Smash as well which is far easier if they land near the ledge.

I'll probably make a video soon.
 

Zeriora

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#8
DI matters a lot for the new Up-Air.

However, while not in the patch notes yet, F-Air's landing lag was reduced from 20 frames to 16. This opens up a lot of new options in neutral; particularly revolving around Hit 1 of F-Air. Hit 1, starting at 65~% against another MK, puts opponents into that low to the ground tumble that forces them to tech or be put into knock-down state. D-Tilt has always none this but only after 100+%. So landing Hit 1 of F-Air basically means, you get a free punish be it a raw Grounded Shuttle Loop, a Dash Attack into Shuttle Loop, Mach Tornado even, and you can tech chase them with F-Smash as well which is far easier if they land near the ledge.

I'll probably make a video soon.
Oh cheers, I'll add this when it's confirmed on the patch notes, since it's more neat.
 

Bullys

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#11
Hopefully not too much doom and gloom from the MK players - while its obviously a hit, I can't help but feel like its what happened with Diddy, it'll suffer but as players (certainly not me, but those a lot smarter than me!) will figure out even more to MK's game (already seen Katakiri's video above on the change with FAIR for example).

Whats the term, limitation breeds creativity?!
 

QTP2T

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#12
Certainly a tough blow, but could we experiment with RAR uairs to mix up DI? I don't have the ability to test right now, and I'm not sure if the angle uair sends the opponent at is dependent on the way you are facing, or the way they are facing. Anyway, just food for thought. :)
 
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Zeriora

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#13
Hopefully not too much doom and gloom from the MK players - while its obviously a hit, I can't help but feel like its what happened with Diddy, it'll suffer but as players (certainly not me, but those a lot smarter than me!) will figure out even more to MK's game (already seen Katakiri's video above on the change with FAIR for example).

Whats the term, limitation breeds creativity?!
Your right, Katakiri Katakiri has already shared some info on his buffed F-air. Which can improve Mk's metagame. Meta knights up air strings are NOT bad in any way at all, they just leave more options to characters in the string to escape, which us meta knight mains have to learn a way to capitalize on this.
 
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Jamurai

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#15
Man I made that big Uair combo guide for nuffin. Ah well.

New Fair is exciting. I'm actually really happy about this patch overall. Goodbye Uair combo but hello innovation in other areas. Also the Sheik nerfs completely change the meta if her 50/50 is truly gone.
 
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#16
So, I found something with MK last night that I wanted to share. Idk how guaranteed it is since I've only done minimal testing and it is very situational, but is very interesting as well. Could this be the new MK Uair combo? Who knows? But if you want to see the combo, look for one of my most recent posts that has a replay attached to it, since smashboards was being dumb and wouldn't let me link the replay on this post. Also, my name is Luke Davila on Facebook if you have trouble finding me. https://m.facebook.com/groups/592969594148664?ref=bookmarks
 
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Zeriora

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#17
Man I made that big Uair combo guide for nuffin. Ah well.

New Fair is exciting. I'm actually really happy about this patch overall. Goodbye Uair combo but hello innovation in other areas. Also the Sheik nerfs completely change the meta if her 50/50 is truly gone.
You worked hard on it.. Oh well, Up air STILL exists, but it's harder to pull off.. Don't bother with another guide until Sakurai tells us when his done with these patches..
 
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#18
Well, I'm pretty disappointed. I feel like this nerf was completely unnecessary. However, the new F-air is sweet. The fact that you can net a kill off a single fair at 60%-70% is amazing. I'm excited in one way and not so excited in another. On the other hand, the nerf to Sheik probably makes the MU less one-sided.
 
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Zeriora

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#19
So, I found something with MK last night that I wanted to share. Idk how guaranteed it is since I've only done minimal testing and it is very situational, but is very interesting as well. Could this be the new MK Uair combo? Who knows? But if you want to see the combo, look for one of my most recent posts that has a replay attached to it, since smashboards was being dumb and wouldn't let me link the replay on this post. Also, my name is Luke Davila on Facebook if you have trouble finding me. https://m.facebook.com/groups/592969594148664?ref=bookmarks
Can you maybe post the video somewhere else please, I'm not too comfortable joining the facebook group.
 

Zeriora

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#22

pancakemix31

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#25
So does this patch effectively kill the traditional bread and butter combo when di is used? I'm loving all the creativity from you guys though, definitely giving me some ideas!
 
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vineto
#26
So does this patch effectively kill the traditional bread and butter combo when di is used? I'm loving all the creativity from you guys though, definitely giving me some ideas!
I guess he just has a new bread & butter now. It all really comes down to how big a role DI plays in the effectiveness of these new combos. Hopefully MK still has a very bright future!
 

warionumbah2

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#27
This was done in T-mode so no staleness on uairs also absolutely no DI on anything. Doesn't look real, would like to see this pulled off in a proper setting.

I'll say this again that combo in the vine isn't true, when has dair ever combo'd into itself? The only part thats true is DA -> FH Uair -> Dair the rest in't real.

Kinda skeptical on all these uair related stuff.
 
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pancakemix31

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#28
This was done in T-mode so no staleness on uairs also absolutely no DI on anything. Doesn't look real, would like to see this pulled off in a proper setting.

I'll say this again that combo in the vine isn't true, when has dair ever combo'd into itself? The only part thats true is DA -> FH Uair -> Dair the rest in't real.
Dair to Dair can combo into itself. You can carry a charizard (or any large modeled character) off the side of the stage even pre-patch with dair to dair to dair. On most characters though this probably wont work well but i could see it being useful in certain scenarios
 

Grimtixx

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#29
He feels so much better to play. I don't have to worry about being centralized around one combo. He flows better too. <3
 

Pseud0

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#30
Not an MK main, but it seems that if you input a fastfall inbetween some of the upairs you can still reliably connect the combo, as long as you are constantly moving forward 100% of the time. This makes it less strict at least
 

Grimtixx

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#31
His overall combo game has been increased due to the upair changes and the fair changes. He's overall much more consistent then he was. We living, boys.
 

Vhaltz

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#32
I read somewhere that characters that are put into tumble (?) at upair string percents can't be combo'd anymore. Messing around with the new upair I've found that it's still possible to combo Sheik at 37%-ish if you wait a split second between upairs to give Sheik's hurtbox time to shift. Training mode still registers it as a true combo.
 

CaptainVul

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#34
So has anyone actually experimented the Up Air combo with DI?

Like I posted before its still possible to do at different percents but only with no DI. What happens they DI away or in?
 
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#40
He's different, but he's still amazing. Overall his combo game has much more variety.
Thanks, can you tell me what the combos are, and also, is he still top 10? Still maining him no matter what, just wondering.

Edit: Also, would you say he's worse or better, and if he's worse how much worse?
 
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