Parallel Falchion - Lucina General and Q/A

[Pipmonchan]

How do you use nair against grounded foes. The utilities I have came up have been:
- 1st hit - cancel with landing - grab (- down throw or throw offstage)
- Retreating and hit with the 2nd hit, keeping just out of range from your opponent (dependes on who you face obviously)

For another question, does Side-B (Dancing Blade) help my recovery? I have always believed it doesn't, but it seems to give a small height boost.

 

[Locuan]

For an idea on Marth's gameplay I recommend reading The blade of two fates guide by EternalFlame. He covers Nair setups in Section 2: Setups and Combos.

Dancing Blade 1 gives you a small vertical "jump" not really a jump but Lucina goes a bit higher up. However, in any case you should only use this one. If you are further away from the stage and at a high angle you can charge your shieldbreaker and let it go and it will give you a boost in horizontal momentum that you can use to recover.

 

[Pipmonchan]

Thanks, that guide is awesome.
Ok, so DB1 does help you recover vertically, thanks.
The technique of hitting with the second hit of nair is not covered in that guide. I will investigate it more.

 

[Buffoon]

For another question, does Side-B (Dancing Blade) help my recovery? I have always believed it doesn't, but it seems to give a small height boost.

I've used Dancing Blade to stall a fall; primarily when being close to a ledge after being knocked off the stage.

On reflection, I'm pondering if it'd be an effective use of Dancing Blade to stall in the air while waiting for an opponent to fall back down to the stage so that you can punish them.

 

[Pipmonchan]

Thanks, I'll give a try.

 

[Locuan]

On reflection, I'm pondering if it'd be an effective use of Dancing Blade to stall in the air while waiting for an opponent to fall back down to the stage so that you can punish them.

If I'm not mistaken, you will only get the vertical boost on DB1, every other attack will not have the effect.

 

[DrCactus]

Are SH airdodges a good option against projectile users?
When is a good time to use shieldbreaker? I feel I rely on it too much and thus get punished for it. When is a good time to use it off stage for recovery?

Also, I have troubles with spacing. Is there any good way to practice that? A lot of the time, it feels like I just use something like dtilt just to do an attack, and I end up whiffing a lot.

 

[Locuan]

Are SH airdodges a good option against projectile users?

Yes.

When is a good time to use shieldbreaker?

Whenever I am landing from a SH F-air and I see my opponent rushing in to punish me when I miss I use shieldbreaker and it more often than not hits. Regardless, the best way to use it is to condition your opponent to shield a lot and then on a shield read use shield breaker. Also, you can use it as a b-reversal mix-up.

When is a good time to use it off stage for recovery?

High angle, far from the stage.

Also, I have troubles with spacing. Is there any good way to practice that? A lot of the time, it feels like I just use something like dtilt just to do an attack, and I end up whiffing a lot.

You mean you don't hit your opponent?

 

[DrCactus]

You mean you don't hit your opponent?

Yeah, like for example, I do a dtilt, and it just barely misses. It happens a lot and I'm trying to fix that.

 

[Locuan]

Yeah, like for example, I do a dtilt, and it just barely misses. It happens a lot and I'm trying to fix that.

Well it depends, if you miss your d-tilt and your opponent rolls behind you can catch him/her with dancing blade. Sometimes not hitting can work to your advantage. Regardless, the first thing I did when I got the game and played Lucina/Marth was to go into training mode and figure out the distances of the attacks against a stationary CPU. That way I'm conditioned to know when it will and will not hit. Then it's just practicing that against actual opponents.

 

[ReRaze]

What exactly are hitlag modifiers and why do people say they make marth better than lucina?

 

[Locuan]

Let's set an example. Your opponent has their shield up and you hit the shield with F-air. Lucina's hitlag modifier is x1.0. This means that she will suffer a period of inactivity due to that hitlag. Now if Marth hits an opponents shield with a sour-spot, his hitlag modifier is 0.7x which means his period of inactivity will be less than that of Lucina. Yet, if Marth hits an opponents shield with tipper F-air his hitlag will be 1.25x and he will suffer from a longer period of inactivity when compared to Lucina. Basically, Marth is safer when hitting opponents shields when compared to Lucina if he utilizes his sour-spots.

 

[ReRaze]

Let's set an example. Your opponent has their shield up and you hit the shield with F-air. Lucina's hitlag modifier is x1.0. This means that she will suffer a period of inactivity due to that hitlag. Now if Marth hits an opponents shield with a sour-spot, his hitlag modifier is 0.7x which means his period of inactivity will be less than that of Lucina. Yet, if Marth hits an opponents shield with tipper F-air his hitlag will be 1.25x and he will suffer from a longer period of inactivity when compared to Lucina. Basically, Marth is safer when hitting opponents shields when compared to Lucina if he utilizes his sour-spots.

I take it it doesnt really make a huge difference in their gameplay though?

 

[Locuan]

I take it it doesnt really make a huge difference in their gameplay though?

Both characters are practically the same in terms of gameplay. They are both heavily reliant on spacing and they usually can't afford to miss a move. They require great knowledge in reads, game mechanics, etc. The differences in their gameplay come within the programming of both characters. The programming of one of them, in this case Marth, offers more complexity and better risk/reward scenarios. Marth players can decide when they want to hit with sour-spot, to string attacks better or be safer against opponents shields, and tipper to rack up more damage or get the kill. Things of that nature.

 

[Macchiato]

got Lucina GIFs and Memes
/blessed

Spoiler: Macchiato's Collection of Lucina GIFs and memes

Spoiler: GIFs

Spoiler: Memes

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/312/a/c/boss_bitch_lucina_bitches__by_crystaliszelda-d85oi16.jpg

 

[Locuan]

@ Macchiato , I removed one of the images you posted since it referenced illegal substance use.

 

[Macchiato]

@ Macchiato , I removed one of the images you posted since it referenced illegal substance use.

Also I beat TKBreezys Marth with Crescent Slash Lucina

2-0

I would upload but I don't have a capture card

 

[Locuan]

No idea what the above had to do with beating TKBreezy's Marth lol. By the way, have you been going to tournaments? Forgot to ask that yesterday.

 

[Macchiato]

No idea what the above had to do with beating TKBreezy's Marth lol. By the way, have you been going to tournaments? Forgot to ask that yesterday.

Online, yes. Offline well Ummm. Springfield is as big of a deadzone as Zelda's ftilt. I'm hoping that chantily's Smash Con being a huge tournament to inspire Smashers in my area to make a scene. But as of now, Smash Con will be my only offline tournament.

 

[_gold_]

I am a noob when it comes to Lucina, but I just started using her the other day and I like what I'm seeing. I've been playing since 64, but I also rarely use Marth. I was just curious how Marth's/Lucina's side-b works. Do I need to flick to the side with each attack or can I just hold it?
Just give me a brief description of the move please.

 

[Moydow]

You don't need to keep flicking the stick with each hit.

You can either go up or neutral/side for the second hit, and up, down, or neutral/side for the third and fourth hits. You have to hold a direction while pressing B to do the up and down hits, but for the neutral one you can just hit B, or hold forward as well - it doesn't matter. Also you don't have to keep using the same direction during the move - you can mix them around, like side-up-down-down, for example.

 

[Locuan]

Hey there @ _gold_ I moved your posts to our General + Question and Answer Thread. Please utilize this thread whenever you have questions such as these.

 

[BlueShadow.EXE]

For the most part, I'm great with Lucina. I can dodge, combo and recover pretty easily. But what I'm not so good at is killing. I've been in matches where I didn't get one kill, but I racked there % up to some 190. Just need a list of decent kill moves. Thanks in advance!

 

[Locuan]

Hey there @ BlueShadow.EXE I moved your post to the General + Question and Answer Thread. Please utilize this thread whenever you have any questions such as these. Now to answer your question, Lucina has a lot of moves that kill, every Smash attack, f-tilt after 150% or so, up throw with rage after 150%, OoS up-b has netted me kills. Countering opponent Smash attacks at high percents is also something that can KO your opponent. Up Smash has a disjointed hitbox that can get kills nicely as well. You can also go out of the stage to hit your opponent when he is recovering and it might gimp or get you the KO.

 

[BlueShadow.EXE]

Hey there @ BlueShadow.EXE I moved your post to the General + Question and Answer Thread. Please utilize this thread whenever you have any questions such as these. Now to answer your question, Lucina has a lot of moves that kill, every Smash attack, f-tilt after 150% or so, up throw with rage after 150%, OoS up-b has netted me kills. Countering opponent Smash attacks at high percents is also something that can KO your opponent. Up Smash has a disjointed hitbox that can get kills nicely as well. You can also go out of the stage to hit your opponent when he is recovering and it might gimp or get you the KO.

Cool, I'll try to put these to use! And thanks for moving my post btw, I keep forgetting this thread exists...

 

[Locuan]

Cool, I'll try to put these to use! And thanks for moving my post btw, I keep forgetting this thread exists...

No problem, I'm here to help!

 

[Macchiato]

I don't understand how sakurai thinks that Marth and Lucina.

He tested clones by putting two CPUs against each other. MESS

 

[Locuan]

I don't understand how sakurai thinks that Marth and Lucina.

He tested clones by putting two CPUs against each other. MESS

Wait what?

 

[Macchiato]

Wait what?

In an earlier article he said he tested them by puting two CPUs against each other

 

[Macchiato]

@ Locuan sorry Locuan but i need to double post

I made us a tourney results thread because we didn't have one. I think you should add it to the table of contents
http://smashboards.com/threads/falcion-duels-lucina-tournament-results-thread.395733/

I also think it should be sticky because Tourney Results are very important but there isn't any space. I was thinking we should combine the Lucina and Marth Differences with another thread.

 

[Locuan]

I'll see if I can re-organize the stickies. Thanks for making a Results thread, it is definitely something that will help out and give people more visibility on the character and see how she is performing.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

I don't understand how sakurai thinks that Marth and Lucina.

He tested clones by putting two CPUs against each other. MESS

No he didn't. He tested them against each other, not with CPUs.

http://www.business2community.com/e...ns-clone-characters-super-smash-bros-01112528

This article says nothing about making CPUs fight each other.

 

[Botcrazy]

Hello! I'm new here so I apologize if this is the wrong thread.

In any game where Marth is available, I main him, but I typically don't have a solid secondary (Except PM, I had Roy). So obviously I started playing Lucina when I got SSB4, and ended up really liking her to the point of Maining her over Marth. I've been playing almost exclusively her since I got the game, and now I've attempted to play Marth again. I find myself playing very differently, and with less aggression. I'm tipping when I can, but I can't tell if I'm doing better or not. When I switch to Lucina, I become aggressive again.

I suppose my question is, should I just treat them as 2 different characters and main both of them? Or should I focus on one? How should I tell which one? I still lean towards Lucina when I'm playing, and I think I'm doing better as her. I really can't tell.

 

[Locuan]

I suppose my question is, should I just treat them as 2 different characters and main both of them? Or should I focus on one? How should I tell which one? I still lean towards Lucina when I'm playing, and I think I'm doing better as her. I really can't tell.

Both are meant to play in the same manner. That means spacing your moves correctly, etc. Marth and Lucina have the same frame data, which means both of their aerials and moves in general have a lot of end lag. Missing a move means you will more than likely be punished. Additionally, Lucina has more hitlag on her moves than Marth's sour spots. Which means she is more easily punished when she hits an opponents shield for example.

Here are some videos regarding Marth play:
http://smashboards.com/threads/hero-kings-council-video-analysis.368553/page-8#post-18717986

That's a good representation of how Marth and Lucina should be employing their move sets.

 

[Botcrazy]

Both are meant to play in the same manner. That means spacing your moves correctly, etc. Marth and Lucina have the same frame data, which means both of their aerials and moves in general have a lot of end lag. Missing a move means you will more than likely be punished. Additionally, Lucina has more hitlag on her moves than Marth's sour spots. Which means she is more easily punished when she hits an opponents shield for example.

Here are some videos regarding Marth play:
(I don't have enough posts to quote such link)

That's a good representation of how Marth and Lucina should be employing their move sets.

Okay, thank you, I'll check this out for sure. However, if I can tip well with Marth, why does Lucina end up working better for me? I can't figure out what the advantage is that's changing my gameplay so much between them.

 

[DrCactus]

It could just be a mental thing. I know some players who have an easier time performing with Lucina, because they're not trying to factor tippers into their gameplay, so they have an easier time trying to focus on other things.

 

[This is a Sentence]

I don't find her current shield breaker bad at all, but I want to know if this would change if and how you play as her. Personally I would enjoy it since would've made her more unique when compared to Marth and perhaps could have given her more options in terms of approaching, edge guarding, and maybe recovery.

 

[Locuan]

I don't find her current shield breaker bad at all, but I want to know if this would change if and how you play as her. Personally I would enjoy it since would've made her more unique when compared to Marth and perhaps could have given her more options in terms of approaching, edge guarding, and maybe recovery.

Hey there, I moved your post to the general thread as it's most suited to here. Anyways, it would be interesting to say the least. I've always liked Marth's shieldbreaker in Melee.

 

[DrCactus]

Are there any uses for Down Smash? It seems like up tilt is better for dealing with people who roll behind me.

Also, question about Dashing Assault. sometimes when I use it, I go behind the opponent's shield. sometimes I don't. what causes this?