Palutena's default moveset

[wpwood]

Btw, warp SUCKS when it comes to breaking out of combos. (Am I the only one who finds it stupid that she doesn't have startup invincibility while Sheik does?) It's better to just air dodge if you want to avoid getting hit, trying to use warp to escape combos will result in you getting spiked by Mario's fair

YES PLEASE FIX OR BUFF THE INVINCIBILITY FRAMES ON THAT MOVE. I swear I get hit after I've disappeared and it gets pretty annoying. Now warp can still be used to find safe landings. Use warp as the opponent jumps to you and you can escape. Jump is a pretty solid commitment and unless they're someone like Fox they'll most likely not punish your landing. Although I would go Peach in the Fox MU anyway.

 

[PHP]

I found out that if your opponent has a safe Invincible up b you can up air right next to the ledge to catch the vulnerability frames when your opponent grabs the ledge.

wpwood I say warping on stage is always unsafe because of the amount of landing lag the move has. It's better to just warp to the ledge even if your recovering from north/ west/east

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I've gotten used to 1111 thanks to playing With Anyone mode. I really like reflect for spacing; it's the only reflector I can use actually

 

[wpwood]

I found out that if your opponent has a safe Invincible up b you can up air right next to the ledge to catch the vulnerability frames when your opponent grabs the ledge.

Any move can catch the 2 frame snap vulnerability if it is active at that location during the 2 frames. Multi hit moves work best for that, nair and uair, but even up smash can catch it on some characters. I've done a random up smash once and hit a rosa on her ledge snap, this is due to the fact that up smash dips down a bit and is active at the ledge where some characters grab the ledge. At lower %s I usually try nair or dair to cover ledge snaps and at higher % I might go for uair once and awhile. If I can land the dair it would be great with the early kills it can net and nair can possibly get a stage spike and I don't want to stale uair.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

I disagree, I think warp cancels have one very solid use and one niche use outside of just being flashy or jank surprise edeguards

The most useful application of warp cancels is obviously landing/escaping disadvantage, particularly on stages with platforms. I do this semi-frequently, at least enough that I generally end up doing it at least once per bracket. Warp is already a great tool for getting out of juggles, and it's utility is improved greatly by having no cooldown and being able to transition directly into bair, jump or airdodge. You have to be in the right position to do it, but it's a good thing to know for when you do have the opportunity

The other use (less useful but more common) is waiting out invincibility for when the opponent spawns in. I often wait for them to appear, then warp to the ledge. They'll often chase me, and I'll just warp immediately back to regain stage position. If they catch onto this, you can just stay on the ledge while they wait for you to warp back, or even hesitate for a moment and warp directly to the ledge to confuse them. It wastes their invincibility pretty effectively unless they're a character who'd rather charge/prepare something

 

[PHP]

Well, It can be used for follow ups on battlefield because there's so many platforms. It's a little harder on dreamland however because of the slightly smaller size of the platforms and wispy's wind box messing me up several times. I guess I was wrong MysteriousSilver . But that still doesn't make-up for the lack of tech on the default set unfortunately. Guess we're waiting until patch 1.1.4 ,but I'm worried that people will drop Palutena by then

 

[PHP]

wpwood So...has anyone else just noticed that Palutena's smash attacks cover every ledge option, or am I just late?

 

[Hydde]

After so many patches, it baffles me how Palutena is in this state of poverty.

For starters, dat counter. Its embarrasing that Sakurai and the dev let her rot with that Counter. Its horrendous. WHy Palutena, who is sucky as hell, has this counter, when characters like SHulk have counters who can gimp you so hard is incredible.
I would make the counter at the very least cover an area around her if it will be that weak. Like a mini energy explotion that goes out of her when succesfully triggered.
It would be badass if the shockwave send you back from the way you came. For example if you get thunderfoot from above and counter it, it would send ganon upwards or diagonal depending from where he came. Or if she receives the attack from below (iex. when being juggled) and she executes the counter.. it would send the attacker downwards to the stage in the direction opposed from when it came.

I mean, just look at corrins counter AOE and look at palus´s. Is sad story bro.

Barrier should do more. You know what could have been good? if the barrier kept enemies at bay like the barriers Lana does in Hyrule warriors..electrocuting peeps while it moves. That combined with it having less lag at the end of the execution would give her good options.

Reticle is not so reliable compared with other proyectiles. I think it could stay that way but only if it gave her less lag after executing it, In other words, let her move out of the cast way faster. Maybe casting it and leaving an orb in place from where the proyectiles pop out while she backs off or approacches would give her a lot of options out of it.

or if the "check" area was not just an arc in front of her but a whole circle around her. That would be badass.

Heck, just do those 2 buffs and make her really good with that autoreticle.

Warp is fine IMO.

All the changes i suggested above would make palutena a control goddess and would propel her where she belongs in the tier lists.

 

[wpwood]

Warp needs better start up. The invincibility frames don't align with the animation when she disappears. I'd rather not use smash attack to cover ledge options. F-smash is active for a total of 2 frames, down smash's hit box doesn't hit all the way to the edge of the wings, and up smash is very lagy if they shield it.

 

[PHP]

Warp needs better start up. The invincibility frames don't align with the animation when she disappears. I'd rather not use smash attack to cover ledge options. F-smash is active for a total of 2 frames, down smash's hit box doesn't hit all the way to the edge of the wings, and up smash is very lagy if they shield it.

Unlike most Palutena players I abuse the fact she has a windbox you'd be surprised on how effective forward smash is if spaced correctly. It out ranges ledge attack and make a pretty fine punish. It also scares people into shielding at ledge which pivot grab easily covers. It's not the lag but the fact that Palutena mains never think to use her windboxes (bar down smash). I've had so much success with it I don't even think her forward smash is that bad anymore. The windbox is also allot safer than reflect because of the range. It also destroys Kirby, Cloud Little Mac, and anyone who doesn't sweet spot the ledge. The windbox itself seems to have a stronger push than reflect as well and can effectively push opponents out of the range of ledge snap (i also think the ledge snap mechanics apply to this windbox to where you can't snap the ledge immediately after getting hit by it and counts it as ledge fall instead of just getting blown off stage) , and is also strong enough push to push opponents off the ledge and platforms if they're not shielding. The windbox I think was the propose of her forward smash and the damage if it hits is just a bonus. I don't think that it's the move that's bad, were just not using it to it's full potential.

Down smash on the other hand needs to be buffed, but that's a different story :/

EDIT: wpwood @TheRealPalutena MysteriousSilver Hydde can you guys help me test something? (Or just lab it and report what you think) I find up tilt to be an amazing combo starter, it puts your opponent above you and it combos into Nair, up air, and even up smash (at certain %s) on fast fallers and some floaties. Overall I think it does more damage than down throw > X and it's decently good at pressuring shields, but I want to see what you guys think about it

I also want you guys to test poking with down tilt instead of jab, it poking seems like it's positive on shield if spaced correctly. It also seems effective to throw out forward tilt immediately after down tilt regardless if down tilt connects on the shield. It seems that down tilt is pretty good at baiting because of it's low end lag (compared with her other moves).

 

[BottledFairy]

Unlike most Palutena players I abuse the fact she has a windbox you'd be surprised on how effective forward smash is if spaced correctly. It out ranges ledge attack and make a pretty fine punish. It also scares people into shielding at ledge which pivot grab easily covers. It's not the lag but the fact that Palutena mains never think to use her windboxes (bar down smash). I've had so much success with it I don't even think her forward smash is that bad anymore. The windbox is also allot safer than reflect because of the range. It also destroys Kirby, Cloud Little Mac, and anyone who doesn't sweet spot the ledge. The windbox itself seems to have a stronger push than reflect as well and can effectively push opponents out of the range of ledge snap (i also think the ledge snap mechanics apply to this windbox to where you can't snap the ledge immediately after getting hit by it and counts it as ledge fall instead of just getting blown off stage) , and is also strong enough push to push opponents off the ledge and platforms if they're not shielding. The windbox I think was the propose of her forward smash and the damage if it hits is just a bonus. I don't think that it's the move that's bad, were just not using it to it's full potential.

Down smash on the other hand needs to be buffed, but that's a different story :/

EDIT: wpwood @TheRealPalutena MysteriousSilver Hydde can you guys help me test something? (Or just lab it and report what you think) I find up tilt to be an amazing combo starter, it puts your opponent above you and it combos into Nair, up air, and even up smash (at certain %s) on fast fallers and some floaties. Overall I think it does more damage than down throw > X and it's decently good at pressuring shields, but I want to see what you guys think about it

I also want you guys to test poking with down tilt instead of jab, it poking seems like it's positive on shield if spaced correctly. It also seems effective to throw out forward tilt immediately after down tilt regardless if down tilt connects on the shield. It seems that down tilt is pretty good at baiting because of it's low end lag (compared with her other moves).

I think most people are just afraid of getting so easily punished by fsmash when they use it at the ledge. It doesn't have too many active frames so even a slight mistiming and you won't catch their regular get up and will be subsequently punished. Even a buffered roll from ledge is quick enough to punish or at least put you in a bad spot. It's a good point though, I myself might make use of the wind box to edgeguard more, and I do find myself being unexpectedly safe because of the wind box sometimes.
As for utilt combos, that's really interesting, I didn't know it comboed. Are they true? I'll have to look into it.
Yes, I use dtilt in the neutral a lot more than the average palutena main. It's a lot safer than it seems, and just sticking out that active hitbox does wonders and catches a lot of people. And on the very very very off chance you somehow get that weird hitbox if they land on it during the middle of its twirl, they get popped up and you can set up for combos/airdodge reads/what have you. But that's just a nice bonus.

 

[PHP]

I think jab > down tilt could be used to KO too at about 120%

B BottledFairy is jab > down tilt (mid staff hitbox) > up air possible? I haven't tested you but it's just an idea that popped into my head

 

[MysteriousSilver]

Unlike most Palutena players I abuse the fact she has a windbox you'd be surprised on how effective forward smash is if spaced correctly. It out ranges ledge attack and make a pretty fine punish. It also scares people into shielding at ledge which pivot grab easily covers. It's not the lag but the fact that Palutena mains never think to use her windboxes (bar down smash). I've had so much success with it I don't even think her forward smash is that bad anymore. The windbox is also allot safer than reflect because of the range. It also destroys Kirby, Cloud Little Mac, and anyone who doesn't sweet spot the ledge. The windbox itself seems to have a stronger push than reflect as well and can effectively push opponents out of the range of ledge snap (i also think the ledge snap mechanics apply to this windbox to where you can't snap the ledge immediately after getting hit by it and counts it as ledge fall instead of just getting blown off stage) , and is also strong enough push to push opponents off the ledge and platforms if they're not shielding. The windbox I think was the propose of her forward smash and the damage if it hits is just a bonus. I don't think that it's the move that's bad, were just not using it to it's full potential.

Down smash on the other hand needs to be buffed, but that's a different story :/

EDIT: wpwood @TheRealPalutena MysteriousSilver Hydde can you guys help me test something? (Or just lab it and report what you think) I find up tilt to be an amazing combo starter, it puts your opponent above you and it combos into Nair, up air, and even up smash (at certain %s) on fast fallers and some floaties. Overall I think it does more damage than down throw > X and it's decently good at pressuring shields, but I want to see what you guys think about it

I also want you guys to test poking with down tilt instead of jab, it poking seems like it's positive on shield if spaced correctly. It also seems effective to throw out forward tilt immediately after down tilt regardless if down tilt connects on the shield. It seems that down tilt is pretty good at baiting because of it's low end lag (compared with her other moves).

I'll lab it around a bit

In the end, I won't mind it if we get some setups out of it, but landing raw Utilt is uncommon unless they just fall at you (or maybe don't know the matchup and try to Sonic Dair or something) and jab doesn't pseudo-combo into it until like 100%, and I'm also uncomfortable about staling my AAAAAAHHHH NOTHING ELSE IS WORKING kill option.

Still, more opportunities for damage is not something Palu should overlook.

EDIT: I'm finding negatives on all accounts. Even if there are specific percents where these work as combos, they are going to be easily DI'd out of. They kind of work as setups, but they could be risky ones. That said, baiting airdodges = kills for Palu, so it's worth keeping in mind I guess. Pressuring shields with Utilt also doesn't seem great to me; it's unsafe enough that plenty of characters can Usmash OoS it for free.

Jab -> Dtilt seems like it can be jumped out of at relative percents and really only kills at the very edge. Since Jab -> Utilt kills around then anyways, I'd personally just stick with that.

 

[PHP]

I was labbing the sour spot (why does this move sourspot?) D-tilt > up air and I'm here to report that it does not work that well. It only combos into fair (true combo btw) and looks like it can true combo into bair at 120%~135%, but the spacing is so incredibly strict ( you can probably use jab to space it but I didn't bother), and the opponent has to land on the sour spot (because both sides of the staff are sweet spots) that it's probably never going to happen in a real tournament (or even on an actual person). I'll start thinking of ideas again.

MysteriousSilver oh yeah, at certain %s up tilt > up smash it true on about half the cast

 

[sjb.dario]

Not sure if this is the right time to talk about it, but does anyone here use reverse up-b effectively? I usually end up doing it by mistake when I'm trying to escape my disadvantage state . But, it seems like there could be some use in this tech if done properly at the right time.

 

[PHP]

Not sure if this is the right time to talk about it, but does anyone here use reverse up-b effectively? I usually end up doing it by mistake when I'm trying to escape my disadvantage state . But, it seems like there could be some use in this tech if done properly at the right time.

What do you mean by reverse up b? Please clarify so I can give you an answer

 

[sjb.dario]

I may be wrong on this, but b-reversing Palutena's warp allows her move herself back more than usual in the phase before she disappears.

 

[PHP]

I may be wrong on this, but b-reversing Palutena's warp allows her move herself back more than usual in the phase before she disappears.

Oh~? That sounds interesting I'll have to check for myself. This sounds useful

EDIT: B reversal up B doesn't do anything, but dash > short hop > up B does slide her 1~2 Palutena to the left or right. I can't see a use for this though :/

EDIT: Has anyone tried repeatedly warp canceling off the same ledge after a successful warp cancel? It's hard to explain but it's warp cancel > jump immediately up right/ left depending on which ledge you're on > warp cancel > repeat. It's quite amusing and I can do it up to 7 times in a row without ****ing up

EDIT^2: wpwood MysteriousSilver @TheRealPalutena Hydde here's an example ---> https://youtu.be/mG4oNGQlPhQ
I feel like I'm the only one that uses this

 

[PHP]

OKAY I've been thinking of new I ideas and I've hatched up a few:

1. Ac fair > counter: I would need to lab this out more, but I think this would be effective in making your opponent think you're vulnerable, and it also happens that Palutena is the only character where this is possible. (bar Ike but people are more likely to shield against him)

2. Jab 1 > reflect (at the ledge)/ reflect (normal get up from ledge > shield): for some odd reason I've taken several stocks with this because people go into panic mode when they get hit out of shield by reflect. This also works if you reflect early since the windbox lingers for awhile and could push them off before they shield. It's a great conditioning tool to encourage ledge roll (which is usually the worst option at the ledge tbh) and jump ( punishable via up smash) and if they panic they might end up SDing or jumping early which puts them in a very bad position

3. Ledge Punishment (Master Bait Edition): now I know allot of us do this (or not because Palutena is rare) but it gives you a safe pressure tool at the ledge and if spaced correctly covers roll too. Down tilt is pretty good at baiting roll too which if they manage to roll behind you, normal get up after the linger of down tilt, or jump above you, you can easily punish with a different tilt or move depending on the scenario. Unless your name is Falcon, Fox, Little (side B gimp lol), Marth/ Lucina, Mario bros, Bowser Jr. or Rosalina these are almost always the better option because Palutena has all the stage control. (Stage control > off stage ledge guarding).

• Bait: (Down tilt), Opponent reaction (rolls), Punishment: if they roll in front of you (down tilt/ jab/ up tilt) if they roll behind you (up tilt/ pivot grab)
• Bait: (Down tilt), Opponent reaction: (jump), Punishment: (up tilt/ up smash/ reverse bair)
• Bait: (Down tilt), Opponent reaction: (normal getup), Punishment: (Rapid jab/ down tilt/ forward tilt/ dash attack/ reflect/ [if spaced correctly] up tilt/ "THE TLTC" up smash/ dash grab)
• Bait: (Down tilt), Opponent reaction: (getup attack) *Note: always space yourself outside of the range of your opponent's getup attack* Punishment: (Forward smash/ down smash/ down tilt/ forward tilt/ dash attack/ dash grab)
• Bait: (Down tilt), Opponent reaction: (doesn't bite), Punishment: (Down tilt bait again/ shield/ [if they take too long] go off stage and nair/ bair them)

4. Reflect...in neutral?: now this only applies to floaty character (Ness, Jiggs, Kirby, Mewtwo, etc) that like to approach/ space with aerial moves. The push is great for walling these types of approaches (and the push on airborne floaties is high for some reason, but that probably because they're floaty) *Note: Never never never never EVER use this on Marth unless you're using technique No. 2.*

MysteriousSilver wpwood @TheRealPalutena Hydde kmpyj @SonicNKnux please lab these and tell me how they work out.

 

[chris1855]

But AR's lock on is bad so that's also ineffective

Oh! You can use the floatyness of counter to stall in the air

Forward air auto reticle jab lock works at medium percents. Reflect to gimp recoveries, to space, and a follow up after jab. The small push effect of it also makes it harder to punish so you can follow up with a down tilt or jab. Counter can just be used when you are 100% sure someone is going to attack or if the opponent is charging a smash attack near the ledge. AR is really just free damage and warp can be used to get out of strings.

 

[PHP]

Forward air auto reticle jab lock works at medium percents. Reflect to gimp recoveries, to space, and a follow up after jab. The small push effect of it also makes it harder to punish so you can follow up with a down tilt or jab. Counter can just be used when you are 100% sure someone is going to attack or if the opponent is charging a smash attack near the ledge. AR is really just free damage and warp can be used to get out of strings.

Fair > AR only works if your opponent can't tech.

 

[chris1855]

Fair > AR only works if your opponent can't tech.

I mean, it's better than down tilt ar. And it's much easier to pull off than jab footstool. People do miss techs sometimes

 

[PHP]

I mean, it's better than down tilt ar. And it's much easier to pull off than jab footstool. People do miss techs sometimes

At high level you shouldn't have to use a high risk moved just to get a jab reset. If you look at every other character that can jab rest they won't get punished hard if they mess up because it usually a lab or a fast weak projectile. AR is very laggy so it's not really worth it.

 

[chris1855]

At high level you shouldn't have to use a high risk moved just to get a jab reset. If you look at every other character that can jab rest they won't get punished hard if they mess up because it usually a lab or a fast weak projectile. AR is very laggy so it's not really worth it.

I mean she is a risky character. I ain't playin it safe here

 

[chris1855]

EDIT: the reason they live so long is because she has no kill setups if the opponent just DIs away

Down throw > bair is done by tapping the circle pad in the opposite direction after you down throw. It's like perfect pivot but you jump and bair afterwards

And what's thing that I've heard about removing landing lag from up air?

Tfw up throw is more viable than back throw

 

[PHP]

Tfw up throw is more viable than back throw

Not even close, up throw isn't that useful to begin with. At least back throw can rack up % and KO at the ledge.

 

[chris1855]

Not even close, up throw isn't that useful to begin with. At least back throw can rack up % and KO at the ledge.

I KO more with up throw

 

[PHP]

chris1855 it more for catching bad DI

 

[chris1855]

chris1855 it more for catching bad DI

well anyway, do you often warp cancel> footstool? Also ar after nair works.

 

[PHP]

chris1855 warp cancel footstool is hard to pull off especially on a ledge, only try it if your good at warp canceling even though it's useful when it connects. Nair > AR only works if they just but it's safe because of the distance between you and the opponent.

 

[chris1855]

chris1855 warp cancel footstool is hard to pull off especially on a ledge, only try it if your good at warp canceling even though it's useful when it connects. Nair > AR only works if they just but it's safe because of the distance between you and the opponent.

I do the footstool by accident lol.

 

[Hydde]

Another evil idea i came up with about counter, would be for it to send enemies straight to the front with great konckback (exactly the same direction and kBG as Ganons sparta kick). It would be badass.

 

[PHP]

Another evil idea i came up with about counter, would be for it to send enemies straight to the front with great konckback (exactly the same direction and kBG as Ganons sparta kick). It would be badass.

Also known as the melee Sheik fair

 

[Hydde]

you could say that

 

[PHP]

Hydde I highly doubt that they'll buff that. And tbh it's the last thing I want buffed since there's so many other things that'll help her out more than counter such as a faster AR and less laggy, less lag on reflect, faster forward tilt, less lag on up tilt, etc.

 

[chris1855]

Hydde I highly doubt that they'll buff that. And tbh it's the last thing I want buffed since there's so many other things that'll help her out more than counter such as a faster AR and less laggy, less lag on reflect, faster forward tilt, less lag on up tilt, etc.

my buff list makes her op with customs but its necessary lol

 

[PHP]

So I've been playing around with jab and I found out that
(Kill strings):

• (on fast fall characters) jab > jab > short hop up air works at 130%
• (On floaty characters) jab > up air works at 120%~140%

Jab also leads into a few nice strings such as the following:
(Combo strings):

• (Easy) jab > nair (floaty) 100%~140% (fast fallers) 120%~150%
• (Modest) jab > jab > fair (floaty) 100%~150% (fast fallers) 130%~160%?
• (Hard) jab > jab > bair (floaty) 100%~150% (fast fallers) 130%~160%
• (Modest) jab > dair (floaty) 130%~?% (fast fallers) ?%~?%

As you can see dair is the only one I haven't tested enough, but the other ones work pretty consistently. Just watch out for combo breakers like frame 3 nair.
MysteriousSilver Hydde kmpyj wpwood chris1855 what do you guys think?

 

[chris1855]

So I've been playing around with jab and I found out that
(Kill strings):

• (on fast fall characters) jab > jab > short hop up air works at 130%
• (On floaty characters) jab > up air works at 120%~140%

Jab also leads into a few nice strings such as the following:
(Combo strings):

• (Easy) jab > nair (floaty) 100%~140% (fast fallers) 120%~150%
• (Modest) jab > jab > fair (floaty) 100%~150% (fast fallers) 130%~160%?
• (Hard) jab > jab > bair (floaty) 100%~150% (fast fallers) 130%~160%
• (Modest) jab > dair (floaty) 130%~?% (fast fallers) ?%~?%

As you can see dair is the only one I haven't tested enough, but the other ones work pretty consistently. Just watch out for combo breakers like frame 3 nair.
MysteriousSilver Hydde kmpyj wpwood chris1855 what do you guys think?

Yeah I knew about this, but unfortunately they can just jump away and airdodge.
Does fair to rar bair work?

 

[PHP]

Yeah I knew about this, but unfortunately they can just jump away and airdodge.
Does fair to rar bair work?

Fair just strings after the jabs, but it's very safe and is not reliant on down throw and bair is even safer because it has faster start up and invincibility frames. I've also found that bair CAN in fact true combo after jab a kill %, but you have to be frame perfect and it's hard to do without doing jump cancel up smash. I think mastering jab > bair will be very beneficial when mastered though.
Jab > jab > up air is way more reliable than down throw up air imo because it's harder to DI jab than down throw so I'm about to use this allot at the 130% range.
Jab > jab > nair at 120%+ is a true combo so it's great for getting easy damage.

Also, jumping away puts them in a very bad position hints why this is safe.

 

[kmpyj]

So I've been playing around with jab and I found out that
(Kill strings):

• (on fast fall characters) jab > jab > short hop up air works at 130%
• (On floaty characters) jab > up air works at 120%~140%

Jab also leads into a few nice strings such as the following:
(Combo strings):

• (Easy) jab > nair (floaty) 100%~140% (fast fallers) 120%~150%
• (Modest) jab > jab > fair (floaty) 100%~150% (fast fallers) 130%~160%?
• (Hard) jab > jab > bair (floaty) 100%~150% (fast fallers) 130%~160%
• (Modest) jab > dair (floaty) 130%~?% (fast fallers) ?%~?%

As you can see dair is the only one I haven't tested enough, but the other ones work pretty consistently. Just watch out for combo breakers like frame 3 nair.
MysteriousSilver Hydde kmpyj wpwood chris1855 what do you guys think?

Those Jab shenanigans is something I use quite a bit, more in particular to the Jab > Jab > (Insert Follow Up).

• Jab > Uair works good as a kill option at high percents.
• Jab > Nair is great for early percents as damage racker, and also (if timed right) can be Auto-Canceled into an Uair. With characters like fox, this is pretty easy. Characters like Kirby......not so much.
• Jab > Jab > Fair is a nice alternative if Jab > Jab > Nair or Uair isn't a good option. Plus, it would be the second quickest aerial to land other than Nair. And depending where your at on the stage, it could give you stage advantage.
• Jab > Jab > Bair kinda same scenario with Fair, although it would deal a bit more damage. As long as you can turn around quickly enough, it's a pretty safe option.
• Jab > Dair: Not many options to use with this one. Would be better off using Bair instead. However, it is a pretty solid "trick em" near a ledge, and if connect, could be fatal for the opponent.