Pac-Man has two GLARING weaknesses. Lets fix them!

[ptrk83]

So we have had both versions of the game for months now. We all have been playing our favorite character on wifi, in tournaments and with friends. It is plainly obvious at this point that our yellow hero struggles with two major things.. throwing, and killing. His damage output, mix ups, recovery, mind games, and zoning are on point. We know this. Thats what makes him so fun to play.

However, in a game where throwing is vital Pac suffers from his wifi grab being complete garbage. I almost just want to remove a grab button from my controller set up just so I don't instinctually go to grab people. I get punished WAYYYYYY to much trying to grab people. This should never be the case for any character :/ What have you guys been dong to get around this...?

Killing... So far, the best kill options seem to be Apple, Key, and a lucky bair or side b mix up. The latter two being rare. Has anyone discovered any guaranteed kill options/set ups? Back throw near the edge works at a certain percent but again... the wifi grab >_< being awful this usually ends up in us getting punished..


I still absolutely love the character though and want to see his meta develop...

 

[Pacack]

I agree with this entirely. I would argue that his difficulty killing is a greater problem than his issues grabbing, though, since his grab does punish spotdodges and rolls well, and can be used with reads.

Maybe we need to start focusing on fruit gimping a bit more for our kills than other things?

 

[ptrk83]

So many times orange is great for gimping due to the speed of getting it out and its knock back...but I always feel like its so random when it happens >_< Like, I got lucky with the timing.. being that I don't always store the orange as my bonus fruit choice.

 

[Pacack]

So many times orange is great for gimping due to the speed of getting it out and its knock back...but I always feel like its so random when it happens >_< Like, I got lucky with the timing.. being that I don't always store the orange as my bonus fruit choice.

Well, if the opponent had a tendency to recover more from below or something, you can default to Apple instead, but I know that that doesn't always work.

What other ways do we have to kill? I've gotten a few stage spikes with hydrants, but those are few and far between.

 

[ptrk83]

Technically key is the best bet... it is a free punish if you aren't impatient... I think just need to try and stop going for the early kill and rack up as much damage as possible until u get the key punish.. :/

 

[SomewhatMystia]

If his side-b wasn't so easily punished (anything hits the power pellet, it drops; ease of hitting pacman; long endlag...) I'd advocate that as his best killing move because of the slightly-longer-than-expected range (and the huge sweet spot at the end of it, where Pacman bites). I've had decent success with his bair, too, but only at higher percentages.

 

[ptrk83]

I feel like unless there is a change.. these things are gonna forever keep Pac at mid... patch perhaps? The nerf to his up smash was completely unnecessary... same with hydrant bairing.

 

[Firedemon0]

I noticed this glaring issue more so today. I did take some liberties and started learning how to use SIdeB as an effective kill move. I have made some progress on that. I lost to a megaman that out spaced me, that I whiffed one too many a throw. I changed it up with falcon in friendlies and grabbed much much easier. We need to expand on Pac-man's traps. That has been my number one most effective killing method. Baiting with hydrant and striking with a key when they go to strike, or even just going straight at hydrant with Side B has got me very effective kills. I have great ideas that I could take Pac-man up with, and I've been making suggestions in the critque thread. However, my own fundamentals need work, I've lost many from being unable to close stocks.

 

[Nu~]

Traps Traps Traps...TRAPS!!!
This is the path we need to take. If we can perfect our traps and combine our minds to brainstorm up some crazy traps, we can end up in high tier easily.

So let's head on over to the advanced techniques thread and discuss some ideas!

 

[Pacack]

Something that I think is often overlooked is that Pac-Man is inherently unpredictable because his tools allow him to play in many different ways. We need to perfect all our styles of play and use them to mix up our play. We can then use the most effective ways together to win.

 

[Nu~]

Something that I think is often overlooked is that Pac-Man is inherently unpredictable because his tools allow him to play in many different ways. We need to perfect all our styles of play and use them to mix up our play. We can then use the most effective ways together to win.

When ever I said this in the competitive character discussion thread I got ignored T_T
But I definitely agree. I just think we need to utilize our traps more.

 

[Firedemon0]

It isn't just traps alone. Pacman setups require conditoning. I spam hydrant to promote attacks then I spring it. It's a gameplan. I lose most of my first matches just by focusing on patterns, it's a game in and of itself.

I've had to burn double jumps to make faster followups. I am also thinking that high tier Pacman play will require default hydrant from a movement perspective. Speed and great fundamentals are what makes most characters higher tier.

The biggest thing to make note is that the forum we have here is the best shot in forming his tier spot. So get out there and get on streams as much as possible.

 

[Pacack]

When ever I said this in the competitive character discussion thread I got ignored T_T
But I definitely agree. I just think we need to utilize our traps more.

Not just traps, though those are indeed very useful. Pac-Man can play AT LEAST:

Pure Aggressive: Self-explanatory.
Pure Defensive: Hide behind hydrant and trampoline, punish opponent for getting too close, maintaining the area on the stage that you have. Fruit is useful to knock opponents out so that you can set up.
Spacing: Keep opponent out of your range with fruit and hydrants, doing as much damage as possible from a distance. While an aggressive Pac-Man would go offstage to gimp an opponent with aerials, a spacing one would use fruit (and hydrants) to kill from the stage.

From there, there are combinations of playstyles that we don't really have fully defined yet, such as: Passively Aggressive (responsive aggressiveness to bad actions that just happen, not forcing the opponent to mess up), Defensively Aggressive (use your defenses to force opponents into punishable positions before going ham), Defensively Spacing (use hydrant and trampoline to control stage, use fruit to do damage from afar), a potential combination of all three, and more that I'm positive I'm not thinking of.

We need to clearly define these, and use them all together for our most effective Pac-Man play.

 

[Nu~]

@ Pacack
@ Firedemon0
Well we know that we can fit into infinitely many play styles, but what we need to focus on is how we can fix our problems by combining each playstyle and switching it up.
For example, I start playing more bait and trap based once the opponent is at higher percentages, and then switch to another playstyle once I condition the opponent.

They say the ability to knock our hydrant into us is a weakness, I say Side B through it when they think they can launch it. They say our camp game has holes because our tools can backfire, I say combine the tools to cover their weaknesses, and play offensive once someone tries to counter your defense.
There are so many possibilities, but it starts by taking advantage of ALL of pac-man's tools. Let's make Side B a consistent kill move, let's make the hydrant unpunishable, let's make dair effective, lets make pac-man as awesome as we can imagine!!

Oh, and firedem0n...if movement is going to be very important, I can see lazy fruit, meteor trampoline, and freaky fruit becoming VERY good for us as the meta evolves.

 

[ptrk83]

https://vine.co/v/OjUELIdLAM7


.... o_o. Maybe Galaga is the Key?

 

[Nu~]

Galaxian is the truth.

 

[Pacack]

Is that guaranteed, or can you DI out of it?

 

[ptrk83]

Is that guaranteed, or can you DI out of it?

testing it now

 

[ptrk83]

It's a dumb percent thing and yeah they can DI out of it at higher percents.

 

[Nu~]

It's a dumb percent thing and yeah they can DI out of it at higher percents.

Soo...it's guaranteed at lower percents?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It's a dumb percent thing and yeah they can DI out of it at higher percents.

Chase them with SideB would be my solution.

Fruit gimping is actually Pac's best kill move. You can push them to the ledge with Oranges, Apples and Strawberries and then keep punishing their recovery attemps with Oranges or Apples.

@ Pacack
@ Firedemon0
Well we know that we can fit into infinitely many play styles, but what we need to focus on is how we can fix our problems by combining each playstyle and switching it up.
For example, I start playing more bait and trap based once the opponent is at higher percentages, and then switch to another playstyle once I condition the opponent.

They say the ability to knock our hydrant into us is a weakness, I say Side B through it when they think they can launch it. They say our camp game has holes because our tools can backfire, I say combine the tools to cover their weaknesses, and play offensive once someone tries to counter your defense.
There are so many possibilities, but it starts by taking advantage of ALL of pac-man's tools. Let's make Side B a consistent kill move, let's make the hydrant unpunishable, let's make dair effective, lets make pac-man as awesome as we can imagine!!

Oh, and firedem0n...if movement is going to be very important, I can see lazy fruit, meteor trampoline, and freaky fruit becoming VERY good for us as the meta evolves.

Killing advantages with Freaky Cherry. :3

I think the biggest growth for Pac-Man lies in his SideB.
Let's use it for more than recovery, like for DI Chasing, limiting movement options and other mindgamy tricks.

 

[dragontamer]

Fruit gimping is actually Pac's best kill move. You can push them to the ledge with Oranges, Apples and Strawberries and then keep punishing their recovery attemps with Oranges or Apples.

I agree.

The main problem are the characters who basically can't be gimped. Lucario, Rosalina, the Pits, and probably others basically live to 200% unless you land a hard read -> Smash attack on them.

Side-B is probably our best kill move beyond that. If we can somehow force opponents to stay off the ledge with a superior ledge-guarding game (with Hydrant), then we can start taking kills as they land high with Side-B or Key.

 

[LanceStern]

We really have to get our timing on point with smash punishes, but I've found key to be my most reliable kill option. Up smash out of shield is second-best IMO, with the orange fruit gimp being third.

What I've found MORE of a problem with Pacman is his lack of range in some matchups. ROB COMPLETELY outranges us it's the most frustrating matchup in my life. And Bowser to some extent.

I don't mind the grab. It punishes the rolls and spot dodges, but does come up short sometimes

 

[revengeska]

Side-B has been Pac-man's most underrated move on these boards, it's good to see that it's finally getting some respect as a serious kill move. I've been using it a lot for edge-guarding, you can really throw off an opponent's timing.

I just don't see Pac-Man having a tough time killing. Like was mentioned, you have the Key, Apple, Side-B, and Bair as potential kill moves. The Melon and back throw, and even Orange can occasionally kill at higher percents as well. Smashes kill as well but you have to get good reads on your opponent. I will Hydrant-dash a down-smash or side-smash sometimes because they don't see it coming. It's no specific combo or strategy that's going to net you a kill with Pac because his options aren't overwhelming, what's overwhelming for the opponent is trying to defend against every one of the listed threats because there's too many options. Be creative, Hydrant-dash into a B-reversed key. The world is your oyster. Compound this with the fact that most players aren't familiar with Pac-Man, and there's room to consistently catch players off-guard.

I'll admit that I'm co-maining Ness and Fox, I think my Ness is stronger and Fox is about as good as my Pac-Man. It's all about comfort of matchups to me. I have hours of video of For Glory and local games recorded playing Pac-Man, I hope to post some videos when I get time to finish editing it all.

 

[dragontamer]

What I've found MORE of a problem with Pacman is his lack of range in some matchups. ROB COMPLETELY outranges us it's the most frustrating matchup in my life. And Bowser to some extent.

Rob has to be one of the most gimpy characters in the game.

I can often KO Rob with Fair alone. Every time he tries to come in, I Fair->Fair->Nair until he runs out of Up-B. Rob can use UAir, Nair, or Fair in response, but Rob has very limited time to play games off stage.

In the neutral game, Rob and Bowser are two of the few characters tall enough that SH Fair becomes an amazingly-strong option.

I'd expect PacMan to have a sizable advantage over both characters. Bowser's best approach option is power-shielding orange. But if you mixup your throws to include cherries, strawberries, oranges, apples and melons (focusing on Strawberry / Orange as the chief mixup) Bowser's approach becomes absolute hell.

I've begun to realize that PacMan's best footsie option is simply throwing out a Strawberry. Its a solid, safe choice that does deceptive amounts of damage.

 

[LanceStern]

I might have to check that out dragontamer. I have a couple of matches online with ROBs and their neutral air and EVERYTHING beats me. And it cancels pretty quick too.

Even if you get a short hop fair they can punish right afterwards

 

[dragontamer]

I might have to check that out dragontamer. I have a couple of matches online with ROBs and their neutral air and EVERYTHING beats me. And it cancels pretty quick too.

Even if you get a short hop fair they can punish right afterwards

Yes in that if you do it "wrong", it is punishable. But if you do it "correctly", it is near unpunishable.

SH Fair vs Rob means you use Fair on the rising motion of PacMan. Unlike most characters, SH Fair "rising" will actually _hit_ Rob, because he's so tall.

You have enough aerial maneuverability to land well outside of his reach if you retreat, or to play a bit more aggressively and land a distance away behind Rob. (I feel like you're still within Rob's FSmash distance if you land behind him... but not much else).

You perform a single SH Fair, while Pacman is still "rising". When you land, you should be in the auto-cancel windo. Before landing, you have Fair, Nair, and if you crossup... Bair as an option.

Again, this is only possible if you execute a "rising SH Fair". Against the majority of the cast, your habits probably force you to use "fallilng SH Fair" (where you time Fair during the downward arc of the SH). Against Rob / Bowser / Tall Characters, you want to immediately hit Fair after the Short-hop.

This is an option that is only useful vs Rob and Bowser, because "Rising SH Fair" whiffs against the majority of the cast. I use it as a footsie option vs shorter characters occasionally, but its far far more useful in Rob, Bowser, and RosaLuma matchups.

My bet is that you're using "Falling SH Fair", which is horribly, horribly unsafe against the whole cast, and is a bad habit IMO.

-------------------------

Rising SH Fair is safe from Rob's USmash and UTilt, and hits him in a blind spot that seems to only be covered by his Jab. Rob's Nair and Fair have too much startup and seem to lose out to PacMan's Fair, in my experience anyway.

Rob's Shield is his best option, but Rob can't do anything OOS against the Rising SH Fair. Rising SH Fair is a free shield poke in this matchup.

 

[Lord Cruxis]

Yes in that if you do it "wrong", it is punishable. But if you do it "correctly", it is near unpunishable.

SH Fair vs Rob means you use Fair on the rising motion of PacMan. Unlike most characters, SH Fair "rising" will actually _hit_ Rob, because he's so tall.

You have enough aerial maneuverability to land well outside of his reach if you retreat, or to play a bit more aggressively and land a distance away behind Rob. (I feel like you're still within Rob's FSmash distance if you land behind him... but not much else).

You perform a single SH Fair, while Pacman is still "rising". When you land, you should be in the auto-cancel windo. Before landing, you have Fair, Nair, and if you crossup... Bair as an option.

Again, this is only possible if you execute a "rising SH Fair". Against the majority of the cast, your habits probably force you to use "fallilng SH Fair" (where you time Fair during the downward arc of the SH). Against Rob / Bowser / Tall Characters, you want to immediately hit Fair after the Short-hop.

This is an option that is only useful vs Rob and Bowser, because "Rising SH Fair" whiffs against the majority of the cast. I use it as a footsie option vs shorter characters occasionally, but its far far more useful in Rob, Bowser, and RosaLuma matchups.

My bet is that you're using "Falling SH Fair", which is horribly, horribly unsafe against the whole cast, and is a bad habit IMO.

-------------------------

Rising SH Fair is safe from Rob's USmash and UTilt, and hits him in a blind spot that seems to only be covered by his Jab. Rob's Nair and Fair have too much startup and seem to lose out to PacMan's Fair, in my experience anyway.

Rob's Shield is his best option, but Rob can't do anything OOS against the Rising SH Fair. Rising SH Fair is a free shield poke in this matchup.

Have you uploaded any matches yet? I gotta see your short hop fair shenanigans. Maybe I'm doing them wrong too.

 

[Paper Maribro]

Alright, so I have been recently joined website where you can play other Australian players online. Okay, take my findings with a grain of salt, but I have been playing a lot of different people who play a lot of different characters. To me, Pac has more than two glaring weaknesses. I would personally add in his range and lack of mobility to these. Lack of range leads to approaching unsafely a lot of the time. Sure Bonus Fruit is great, but we can hardly rely on it as an approach tool especially against really campy characters who won't allow us to reach the fruit we want for a given situation.

Camping is a big thing I see Pac struggling with due to our poor mobility. Take for example Ness who can just PK Fire all day long. Its an uncomfortable matchup for us because we cannot just run away or zone break Ness. We have to sit in shield and hope that they stuff up and lose out to our poor OoS options. I have heard about side-b being a good anti-camping thing but I cannot see it to be honest. I will need to test it offline to really know. Our poor aerial mobility also sets up for juggles much like ROB gets juggled for days. If hydrant is already down and you start to get juggled, we don't really have a solid get off me option.

It's obviously not all bad for Pac, I just want us all to be realistic when evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of the character.

I don't really see side-b as a consistent kill move. The only times I have landed it and killed were after an offstage Fair string and when someone teched on a platform and I read the tech or when I surprised someone with how tight you can make the circle. Its main problem is it literally tells you where you are about to go without being especially fast or sudden about it. It's so telegraphed and punishable due to its high endlag, it's almost riskier than a smash attack imo. Personally, I have been getting a lot of mileage out of running up smash lately. Its certainly a lot less risky than the other Smash attacks due to its quick start up (13 frames isn't bad considering it's fairly powerful) and it's absolutely great at punishing through a ledge or as a great anti-air. Landing an apple while in the air is also a solid kill move as the opponent is already part of the way to being off the top anyway. Apple is a great deterrent to people wishing to chase you off stage and punish you charging BF.

As for ROB as a bad matchup, a lot of people in the skype group seem to think he is bad but I don't. Nair is a good move, but it has a long startup where you can easily knock ROB out of it with fruit. He is also seriously susceptible to juggling and gimping. If you want to get a feel for the characters weaknesses, go and take him to FG or something and play around with him. He has a lot of very exploitable weaknesses for us, however, I believe if you only have FG experience against ROB, it will slightly skew your perception of him. To me, ROB does very well on FD.

 

[Nu~]

Poor out of sheild options? What is poor about OOS trampoline and nair?

 

[Paper Maribro]

Poor out of sheild options? What is poor about OOS trampoline and nair?

Your opponent basically has to be on top of you to hit either of them. If they are slightly out of range then its an easy punish for them. Especially if you use trampoline. Sure, he has fantastic OoS options if your opponent is right on top of you, but if they keep outside Nair range (which isn't much, let's be real here) then you will get hit anyway.

 

[Nu~]

Your opponent basically has to be on top of you to hit either of them. If they are slightly out of range then its an easy punish for them. Especially if you use trampoline. Sure, he has fantastic OoS options if your opponent is right on top of you, but if they keep outside Nair range (which isn't much, let's be real here) then you will get hit anyway.

Well we also have fruit toss OOS. And I really think you overstate our weakness to camping, but maybe it's just because you haven't really tried side B as an anti camp tool yet.
Trust me, it is amazing for laggy projectiles like pk Fire.

 

[LanceStern]

OOS trampoline is amazing, I'll upload some videos.

Dragontamer, rising fair gets punished so hard it's ridiculous. Please upload a video. ROB, Bowser, Rosalina hurt me when I do it

 

[AyeYoDeji]

So we have had both versions of the game for months now. We all have been playing our favorite character on wifi, in tournaments and with friends. It is plainly obvious at this point that our yellow hero struggles with two major things.. throwing, and killing. His damage output, mix ups, recovery, mind games, and zoning are on point. We know this. Thats what makes him so fun to play.

However, in a game where throwing is vital Pac suffers from his wifi grab being complete garbage. I almost just want to remove a grab button from my controller set up just so I don't instinctually go to grab people. I get punished WAYYYYYY to much trying to grab people. This should never be the case for any character :/ What have you guys been dong to get around this...?

Killing... So far, the best kill options seem to be Apple, Key, and a lucky bair or side b mix up. The latter two being rare. Has anyone discovered any guaranteed kill options/set ups? Back throw near the edge works at a certain percent but again... the wifi grab >_< being awful this usually ends up in us getting punished..


I still absolutely love the character though and want to see his meta develop...

The best way to not get punished for grabs is to not grab too much lol. Pac's fruit can get u a safe punish without having to grab. i rarely grab when I'm using pacman. BUT good grab setups include but are not limited to: jab, jab, grab(opponents usually air dodge into the ground giving u a free grab), also grab is amazing for reading neutral get up by the ledge. basically pac man's grabs are always reads. DO NOT treat them as regular grabs. As for killing. key , apple, mellon, back air, up air. Hydrant kills as well. and if u even think about landing a smash attack, perfect your bell setups. that is all.

 

[LanceStern]

I like that input AyeYoDeji. Treat grabs as reads, not regular grabs.

 

[dragontamer]

Dragontamer, rising fair gets punished so hard it's ridiculous. Please upload a video. ROB, Bowser, Rosalina hurt me when I do it

I don't got video recording equipment :-(

I can probably self-record myself playing my 3DS in training mode with a Cell Phone and then upload it somewhere. But... I doubt the quality of that is going to be any good.

How are they punishing you? They shouldn't be able to punish you on the landing because SH Fair autocancels to a perfectly safe landing. If they misspace a rush-in, you still have attack options such as Bonus Fruit (especially Cherry / Strawberry / Apple), and you've got a 2nd Fair or Nair to cover your landing. Hydrant also kills a lot of rush in attempts.

This 2nd Fair or Nair is very unsafe however, and only should be used as a last resort against an overly aggressive player not respecting the SH Fair.

In my experience, I've only been punished when I go "all in" with a double-Fair, Fair-Nair, or Fair->Bair. Then the opponent guesses the crossup and tilts me on the unsafe landing.

The "safe" SH Fair from PacMan has no followups. You SH Fair, and retreat to a position where neither side can attack. It takes discipline, because Fair-Fair is a great combo starter (with trip potential), and Fair-Nair does a good chunk of damage.

But otherwise, SH Fair -> RETREAT HARD should be pretty safe. You can't fast fall either, you gotta let the Short-hop land naturally if you want the safe autocancel to occur.

EDIT: I'll go try and edit a video.

 

[LanceStern]

Rosalina can shield fair and dash attack. Even if you retreat it I believe. Or she can take a committed fair and up-smash you or do whatever she wants. But I have been more on the neutral / committed fairs than a full retreating short hop. I'll throw those in and see what happens.

By the way if you can't use equipment just record off your tv using your phone. Better that than nothing imo

 

[dragontamer]

@ LanceStern
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fNJlLfmhbM

I'm going to add annotations and stuff. Some of what I said on-the-spot was incorrect.

Please tell me if this doesn't work for you. This honestly forms the basis of my strategy vs taller characters.

SH Fair works as an "anti-air" option against shorter characters like Diddy or Shiek. They'll have to change their timing to preempt your Fair. More typically, it forces Diddy and Shiek to play a ground game against you (as long as you do the Fair immediately, the opponent basically has to do a preemptive predictive Fair to beat you in the air).

So its not a completely worthless technique against them, but its certainly not nearly as useful.

--------------

Here I do a "rising SH Fair retreat". Then I do a FSmash to show you just how far away PacMan is from Rob.

There's no way for Rob to punish you that far away. I discuss the footsies options in the youtube video.

As noted in the video, you can cover your landing with a 2nd Fair, a Nair, Hydrant, and Cherry, which should prevent any form of counter-attack or counter-dash in attempts. Rising SH Fair -> Fast Fall leaves you much closer to the opponent, but you land quicker and can preempt dashins with a jab or tilt.

So no, its not invulnerable. But I would argue that this positioning gives PacMan a massive advantage. You can very safely perform this poke on opponent's shields, and for most characters this is a massive blind-spot.

 

[LanceStern]

If they shield that, ROB can punish. Shield -> Ftilt and perhaps dash attack. Rosalina has punished that exact fair of mine many times. She can shield and up smash or dash attack

The crazy thing about Pacman's "autocancel" is that he has a landing animation either a spring or his body twists on the floor.

 

[dragontamer]

If they shield that, ROB can punish. Shield -> Ftilt and perhaps dash attack. Rosalina has punished that exact fair of mine many times. She can shield and up smash or dash attack

Rob's FTilt is not an out-of-shield option. With the "shield drop" lag, I'm fairly certain that all non-OOS options (Dash Attack, FTilt, Jab even) don't work. They're just too slow because of Smash4's extended Shield Drop lag. That includes Dash attack.

Again, you have a ton of options before you land. Nair, a 2nd Fair, Hydrant, Cherry, and Double-jump to name a few. Any of these 2nd options snuff a dash attack safely (unless the Cherry is thrown at a bad time, and the opponent catches + dash attacks. This has happened to me a fair number of times).

Shield-drop -> Dash attack is definitely too laggy. If Rosalina is shield-dropping, she ought to lose to your 2nd option as you're landing.

OOS options like Rosalina's USmash is different. If they perform the OOS USmash, it might be fast enough to catch us. I'll have to ask for a training partner to test this one out, because Training mode in Smash4 isn't that good >_<. Honestly though, my instinct tells me that even OOS USmash from Rosalina is too slow to punish this particular movement at this particular spacing.

It is the spacing that makes this safe. Do it with any other space and your opponent will punish you.

Besides, you can always whiff the Fair entirely to bait the OOS USmash, fast-fall and punish. PacMan's aerial mobility is quite good.

The crazy thing about Pacman's "autocancel" is that he has a landing animation either a spring or his body twists on the floor.

After testing, I've discovered that I was wrong about autocancel. SH Fair doesn't autocancel. But you should be landing so far away that your opponent can't punish you. The distance I showed you above is well outside of Rob's FTilt distance.

If they Dash attack the landing, you should win. You have a million options, from falling Nair, Hydrant, and fast-fall Shield that will beat out any aggressive attack "under" you from this particular space.