Pac-Man Custom Moveset Discussion

[Spirst]

Yep, every fruit can be dropped. With freaky, the fruits you can't catch otherwise are orange/apple/sometimes galaxian/bell/key. Orange isn't that great since it only does 2% and a really straightforward angle when thrown/poor knockback when Z-dropped. Apple could be cool and has some decent knockback and does 9%. Galaxian has ehh knockback and does 7% which means use Apple instead. Bell kind of sucks. Key is good.

 

[Firedemon0]

You have to keep in mind, that while useful, this method will be adding damage. You also will not be able to do this at higher percents, the knock back is much too high. It definitely adds more to the fact, that on-fire is likely the best hydrant for freaky fruit. In my opinion Lazy is best with default, and default fruit is fine with either.

 

[Nu~]

I'll run a test to see what percentage we can't perform it anymore.

 

[Spirst]

Well, I have some good news.

This works well even at 80%. Let me elaborate:

-Up to the 40s region, it's easy to catch with a falling aerial or falling down>shielding>picking it up.

-In the 50s region, catching it with a fastfall aerial (like bair which cancels when landed before the active hitbox is out on frame 9) is best. You can also recatch it with a tech roll in the direction the flames are moving so you can evade them. Attempting a regular tech>shield will get you hit

-In the 60s region, the only way to catch it is with the fastfalling bair cancel (as described above, land with it before the active hitbox is out and you'll be able to shield the 2nd wave of oncoming flames). Anything else such as a nair or tech/tech roll will get you hit.

-In the 70s region, you need to catch it with a tech or tech roll. When you tech after fastfalling, you gain the invincibility frames just in time and will evade the flames.

-In the 80s region, same concept as 70s but with a tighter timing. Something else you can do to keep it going is buffer airdodge when you get sent vertically then start your fastfall a tiny bit after the animation ends. By the time you touch the floor, you'll be able to pick it up normally and the fire will have passed.

-At 90s region, it's still possible to do using both methods but the timing is going to be harder. Airdodge as you fall rather than buffering it from hitstun like in the 80s.

At 100%, it's STILL possible to pull off using the 90s region method but I wouldn't try to use this reliably at this point.

At about 105% is when it seems nearly impossible to pull off anymore.

So basically, we have a tech that can work pretty well even into 100% which is great. This, of course, isn't factoring the opponent chasing you or anything like that.

Something else nice about on-fire hydrant is that a tumbling hydrant kills pretty early for Pacman. Set it down>bair towards other player>jab and then try to bthrow them into it. Kills Mario from center stage at 130% and the edges at 110%.

 

[Jay-kun]

Well, I have some good news.

This works well even at 80%. Let me elaborate:

-Up to the 40s region, it's easy to catch with a falling aerial or falling down>shielding>picking it up.

-In the 50s region, catching it with a fastfall aerial (like bair which cancels when landed before the active hitbox is out on frame 9) is best. You can also recatch it with a tech roll in the direction the flames are moving so you can evade them. Attempting a regular tech>shield will get you hit

-In the 60s region, the only way to catch it is with the fastfalling bair cancel (as described above, land with it before the active hitbox is out and you'll be able to shield the 2nd wave of oncoming flames). Anything else such as a nair or tech/tech roll will get you hit.

-In the 70s region, you need to catch it with a tech or tech roll. When you tech after fastfalling, you gain the invincibility frames just in time and will evade the flames.

-In the 80s region, same concept as 70s but with a tighter timing. Something else you can do to keep it going is buffer airdodge when you get sent vertically then start your fastfall a tiny bit after the animation ends. By the time you touch the floor, you'll be able to pick it up normally and the fire will have passed.

-At 90s region, it's still possible to do using both methods but the timing is going to be harder. Airdodge as you fall rather than buffering it from hitstun like in the 80s.

At 100%, it's STILL possible to pull off using the 90s region method but I wouldn't try to use this reliably at this point.

At about 105% is when it seems nearly impossible to pull off anymore.

So basically, we have a tech that can work pretty well even into 100% which is great. This, of course, isn't factoring the opponent chasing you or anything like that.

Something else nice about on-fire hydrant is that a tumbling hydrant kills pretty early for Pacman. Set it down>bair towards other player>jab and then try to bthrow them into it. Kills Mario from center stage at 130% and the edges at 110%.

( Nu~ he beat you to it)..

 

[Firedemon0]

Well, I have some good news.

This works well even at 80%. Let me elaborate:

-Up to the 40s region, it's easy to catch with a falling aerial or falling down>shielding>picking it up.

-In the 50s region, catching it with a fastfall aerial (like bair which cancels when landed before the active hitbox is out on frame 9) is best. You can also recatch it with a tech roll in the direction the flames are moving so you can evade them. Attempting a regular tech>shield will get you hit

-In the 60s region, the only way to catch it is with the fastfalling bair cancel (as described above, land with it before the active hitbox is out and you'll be able to shield the 2nd wave of oncoming flames). Anything else such as a nair or tech/tech roll will get you hit.

-In the 70s region, you need to catch it with a tech or tech roll. When you tech after fastfalling, you gain the invincibility frames just in time and will evade the flames.

-In the 80s region, same concept as 70s but with a tighter timing. Something else you can do to keep it going is buffer airdodge when you get sent vertically then start your fastfall a tiny bit after the animation ends. By the time you touch the floor, you'll be able to pick it up normally and the fire will have passed.

-At 90s region, it's still possible to do using both methods but the timing is going to be harder. Airdodge as you fall rather than buffering it from hitstun like in the 80s.

At 100%, it's STILL possible to pull off using the 90s region method but I wouldn't try to use this reliably at this point.

At about 105% is when it seems nearly impossible to pull off anymore.

So basically, we have a tech that can work pretty well even into 100% which is great. This, of course, isn't factoring the opponent chasing you or anything like that.

Something else nice about on-fire hydrant is that a tumbling hydrant kills pretty early for Pacman. Set it down>bair towards other player>jab and then try to bthrow them into it. Kills Mario from center stage at 130% and the edges at 110%.

Those higher percent methods seem a bit too dangerous, I would say, sticking to under 70% would be wise. Anytime you need to do air dodge near the ground is asking for a punish. It is still really useful I think and would be a big part of Pac-man's custom game.

 

[Jay-kun]

Those higher percent methods seem a bit too dangerous, I would say, sticking to under 70% would be wise. Anytime you need to do air dodge near the ground is asking for a punish. It is still really useful I think and would be a big part of Pac-man's custom game.

The whole thing is risky in general because someone can just knock your hydrant OR grab the fallen key...

 

[Nu~]

The whole thing is risky in general because someone can just knock your hydrant OR grab the fallen key...

That's why you do it in advantage (opponent knocked off the stage)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Z-Drop Key is all and good. (I smell a small update of a certain thread), Z-Dropped Strawberry is gorgeous too.

Z-Drop Strawberry -> Hydrant drop -> Nair kills Hydrant before you even touch the ground.
And Strawberry and Hydrant protect eachother.

 

[Rashid]

Alright guys, can we get back to discussing Lazy Fruit and Meteor Trampoline?

I know the general consensus here seems to be that they're situational, but I see them being left out of a lot of sets. And at EVO, we'll be locked to 10 standard sets with no "home-made" sets allowed. I feel like there are far too many "redundant" combinations here to the point where I feel that those two specials aren't given a fair chance.

I still think 3132 is a very good set (for more emphasis on space control), whereas 3XX1 is good for a better neutral game. I already use the former often, but I don't use it much with the default hydrant, so maybe you guys can discuss that. (I'd start practicing/experimenting, but there's a national tournament soon with no customs so I want to practice for it)

...In my opinion, if Enticing Power Pellet ever has a chance to be used, it would be with either Lazy Fruit (soft projectile wall to bait a response and punish) or Freaky Fruit (strawberry them back into it, but I don't see it happening). I've also been thinking of heavy characters who (generally) can't recover well. We already discussed lazy fruit to camp them out; what about EPP to edgeguard them? It'll help with our major issue (getting a finishing blow). It should still have armor on it - timing is the only problem. And you generally don't have to worry about being edgeguarded by them, so either default or meteor trampoline should work. I'm not sure about the hydrant choice...

 

[Jay-kun]

That's why you do it in advantage (opponent knocked off the stage)

But you waste the chance to do some off-stage play :/

 

[Nu~]

Alright guys, can we get back to discussing Lazy Fruit and Meteor Trampoline?

I know the general consensus here seems to be that they're situational, but I see them being left out of a lot of sets. And at EVO, we'll be locked to 10 standard sets with no "home-made" sets allowed. I feel like there are far too many "redundant" combinations here to the point where I feel that those two specials aren't given a fair chance.

I still think 3132 is a very good set (for more emphasis on space control), whereas 3XX1 is good for a better neutral game. I already use the former often, but I don't use it much with the default hydrant, so maybe you guys can discuss that. (I'd start practicing/experimenting, but there's a national tournament soon with no customs so I want to practice for it)

...In my opinion, if Enticing Power Pellet ever has a chance to be used, it would be with either Lazy Fruit (soft projectile wall to bait a response and punish) or Freaky Fruit (strawberry them back into it, but I don't see it happening). I've also been thinking of heavy characters who (generally) can't recover well. We already discussed lazy fruit to camp them out; what about EPP to edgeguard them? It'll help with our major issue (getting a finishing blow). It should still have armor on it - timing is the only problem. And you generally don't have to worry about being edgeguarded by them, so either default or meteor trampoline should work. I'm not sure about the hydrant choice...

Um...a lot of us here really like the meteor trampoline. We also have discussed that the lazy fruit is amazing for stage control.
I like the idea of mixing lazy fruit and on fire hydrant for more control, but lazy fruit seems to go better with default for more hydrant gushing techniques.

I like to use meteor trampoline for traps and amazing stage control, while lazy fruit is good for stage control and halting rush down.

But you waste the chance to do some off-stage play :/

It doesn't take that much time.
You can set it up, and then be ready to ruin the last bit of their recovery with the key. You have to weigh the opportunities. Also, some opponents just shouldn't be touched by CQC offstage like meta knight. We have fruits and ledge traps for that.

 

[Jay-kun]

Alright guys, can we get back to discussing Lazy Fruit and Meteor Trampoline?

I know the general consensus here seems to be that they're situational, but I see them being left out of a lot of sets. And at EVO, we'll be locked to 10 standard sets with no "home-made" sets allowed. I feel like there are far too many "redundant" combinations here to the point where I feel that those two specials aren't given a fair chance.

I still think 3132 is a very good set (for more emphasis on space control), whereas 3XX1 is good for a better neutral game. I already use the former often, but I don't use it much with the default hydrant, so maybe you guys can discuss that. (I'd start practicing/experimenting, but there's a national tournament soon with no customs so I want to practice for it)

...In my opinion, if Enticing Power Pellet ever has a chance to be used, it would be with either Lazy Fruit (soft projectile wall to bait a response and punish) or Freaky Fruit (strawberry them back into it, but I don't see it happening). I've also been thinking of heavy characters who (generally) can't recover well. We already discussed lazy fruit to camp them out; what about EPP to edgeguard them? It'll help with our major issue (getting a finishing blow). It should still have armor on it - timing is the only problem. And you generally don't have to worry about being edgeguarded by them, so either default or meteor trampoline should work. I'm not sure about the hydrant choice...

wait what is this 10 standard set EVO thing??

Um...a lot of us here really like the meteor trampoline. We also have discussed that the lazy fruit is amazing for stage control.
I like the idea of mixing lazy fruit and on fire hydrant for more control, but lazy fruit seems to go better with default for more hydrant gushing techniques.

I like to use meteor trampoline for traps and amazing stage control, while lazy fruit is good for stage control and halting rush down.


It doesn't take that much time.
You can set it up, and then be ready to ruin the last bit of their recovery with the key. You have to weigh the opportunity. Also, some opponents just shouldn't be touched by CQC offstage like meta knight. We have fruits and ledge traps for that.

weighing options..ok ill keep that in mind

 

[Rashid]

wait what is this 10 standard set EVO thing??

In case you've been out of the loop, @Amazing Ampharos wants to update all of the standard custom movesets. We're getting rid of 2222, 3333 and the 2 empty slots. The former were for experimenting and the latter is for the 1%/situational sets. But since EVO's rules are going to be locked in on the 17th and we DON'T want people to spend extra time with their own homemade sets, the new standard will just be 10 set-in-stone sets (until the next update, etc.). I'm sure he can elaborate more.

 

[Nu~]

I would like to share my 10 sets...

2132 (The aggressive trap Pac)
2122
2131

3131 (The defensive zoning Pac)
3132 ("The stage is mine" Pac)
3121

1112
1123 (Anti Rosa)
1132
1122

I don't include the custom side B's because they are either too situational or a straight up downgrade, and dire hydrant just isn't useful at all IMO.
Freaky fruit is best used for traps and kill set ups (a more aggressive and anti camp pac) while the lazy fruit are better for defense and area control (anti rush down)

On fire hydrant is really good for stopping rush down and adds more offense to our game, while default is excellent for fruit gushing tricks and versatility.
Meteor trampoline is trap city and an exceptional spike, while power pac jump is great for combos, kills after uthrow, and a superb OoS.

 

[19_]

I would like to share my 10 sets...

2132 (The aggressive trap Pac)
1132
2131
3122
3131 (The defensive zoning Pac)
3111
2122
1112
1122
3121


I don't include the custom side B's because they are either too situational or a straight up downgrade, and dire hydrant just isn't useful at all IMO.
Freaky fruit is best used for traps and kill set ups (a more aggressive and anti camp pac) while the lazy fruit are better for defense and area control (anti rush down)

On fire hydrant is really good for stopping rush down and adds more offense to our game, while default is excellent for fruit gushing tricks and versatility.
Meteor trampoline is trap city and an exceptional spike, while power pac jump is great for combos, kills after uthrow, and a superb OoS.

But what the 1123 Rosalina set?

 

[Jay-kun]

I would like to share my 10 sets...

2132 (The aggressive trap Pac)
1132
2131
3122
3131 (The defensive zoning Pac)
3111
2122
1112
1122
3121


I don't include the custom side B's because they are either too situational or a straight up downgrade, and dire hydrant just isn't useful at all IMO.
Freaky fruit is best used for traps and kill set ups (a more aggressive and anti camp pac) while the lazy fruit are better for defense and area control (anti rush down)

On fire hydrant is really good for stopping rush down and adds more offense to our game, while default is excellent for fruit gushing tricks and versatility.
Meteor trampoline is trap city and an exceptional spike, while power pac jump is great for combos, kills after uthrow, and a superb OoS.

what about 1111

But what the 1123 Rosalina set?

That is the situational that Rashid explained

 

[Nu~]

But what the 1123 Rosalina set?

Others have said that it doesn't help as much as expected, and I haven't found a rosa player to extensively test it just yet.
I do feel that 1122 is worthless, so I'll replace that with this one.
One set is worth it to help in the rosa matchup.

We should also try to master BSP's pellet healing technique to make the matchup easier

http://youtu.be/ikOqXDa88_I

 

[Rashid]

1111 is already there by default. It doesn't count/take a slot.
And while I agree Dire Hydrant is pretty bad, it's useful against Rosalina (knocks Luma away) and fast characters that can quickly knock the hydrant away (Bowser, Yoshi, Captain Falcon?). It should have at least one set. Probably better to replace either 3111 or 1132 with a set usable against them. 1123 sounds good against them. But are the other 2 hydrants really useless against Rosalina?

 

[Nu~]

1111 is already there by default. It doesn't count/take a slot.
And while I agree Dire Hydrant is pretty bad, it's useful against Rosalina (knocks Luma away) and fast characters that can quickly knock the hydrant away (Bowser, Yoshi, Captain Falcon?). It should have at least one set. Probably better to replace either 3111 or 1132 with a set usable against them. 1123 sounds good against them. But are the other 2 hydrants really useless against Rosalina?

I think he may have been being facetious lol. I mean...its Jay-Kun(no offense buddy ^^; )

I wouldn't advise using dire hydrant for anything but rosa though. Those characters may be able to launch it easily, but we can just as easily punish their cooldown. It is also difficult to knock down a hydrant that is protected by the trampoline right in front of it. Not to mention, the flames from the on fire hydrant really deters those characters from wanting to dash up and hit it (hence the "anti rush down tool")
I'm curious as to why you would replace 1132 or 3111. 3111 would be like 3131, only for opponents that can easily gimp side B, so that we can get back safely without worrying about the low recovery of the meteor trampoline. 1132 would be for players that don't want the more offensive 2132, but instead prefer a balance of anti rush down, offense, and defense.

And the other hydrants are useful against rosa, but they are a bit harder to use without fully dedicating the match to using the gravitational pellet healing technique.

 

[PacMain92201]

I would like to share my 10 sets...

2132 (The aggressive trap Pac)
1132
2131
3122
3131 (The defensive zoning Pac)
3111
2122
1112
1123
3121


I don't include the custom side B's because they are either too situational or a straight up downgrade, and dire hydrant just isn't useful at all IMO.
Freaky fruit is best used for traps and kill set ups (a more aggressive and anti camp pac) while the lazy fruit are better for defense and area control (anti rush down)

On fire hydrant is really good for stopping rush down and adds more offense to our game, while default is excellent for fruit gushing tricks and versatility.
Meteor trampoline is trap city and an exceptional spike, while power pac jump is great for combos, kills after uthrow, and a superb OoS.

Lol i have those exact same sets for pac as well.

 

[Nu~]

Lol i have those exact same sets for pac as well.

Wow dude...
That's scary lol.
Maybe this means we are on the verge of a general consensus?

 

[Rashid]

Maybe @Amazing Ampharos should make a poll with every possible combination like he did for the Palutena thread.

 

[Nu~]

Changed my sets up a little bit. How does everyone like them now?

 

[Rashid]

Seems a lot more agreeable. Still think AA should make that poll, though.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Copy Paste from the depths of this thread (Page 3)

I'm gonna take a shot at this and make sets at the hand of the functions the differents fruits sets serve.

Default Fruit: 1112, 1132, 1123 (RosaSet?)
IMO, this is the "fling as many stuff at people possible" set.
The best Side B is default
Any tramp goes IMO, although I recommend default, since there's no kill move to land after a Meteor.
The On-Fire Hydrant is best, because Default Fruit doesn't exactly lend itself for Z-Drop shenanigans.

Freaky Fruit: (Visit my thread pls) 2132, 2131, 2122 (It is a nice rushdown fruit too)
The Trap set, so it obviously comes with On-Fire and Meteor Tramp. There's NO reason NOT to pick Meteor Tramp when picking Freak Fruit. EXCEPT when you go all rushdown and pick PPJ, but that is still a very risky choice.

Default Hydrant is here because I can imagine there are people still uncomfortable around our favorite flamethrower.

Lazy Fruit: 31X1, 31X2, 33X1
The Z-Drop, space control set.
I've heard from some that Enticing is a good choice here and in theory, both Hydrant should suffice (Either for launcing Z-Drops or space control)

9 theorycrafted sets. Whaddaya think?

 

[Jay-kun]

but.... default bonus fruit is OP...charges so fast wut
P.S. @ Nu~

 

[John12346]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
2132 2122 2131 3131 3132 3121 1112 1123 1132 1122

This set is ripped directly from Pacman9. Before this post I had planned to suggest the following 10 sets: (2132 1132 2131 1131 2122 1122 2121 1121 1123 3132) based on what I had drawn from your discussion but it seems like it has come a long way since then, so I'll believe in you guys.

ALSO, I was the champion who created the poll for the Palutena boards, jussayin'. I was only intending on making a poll for her because of her incredibly diverse moveset, but if you want me to do it for you guys I will. I really don't think you need it at this point, as your list of sets seems to be nearing completion anyway, for sure.

Edit: Fixed the sets with what was posted below me. Make sure to organize these by priority, too!

 

[Rashid]

Pacman9 edited his sets later. Don't look at the quoted posts.
Right now, they're:

2132 (The aggressive trap Pac)
2122
2131

3131 (The defensive zoning Pac)
3132 ("The stage is mine" Pac)
3121

1112
1123 (Anti Rosa)
1132
1122

 

[Firedemon0]

I'm still in the camp that the Anti Rosa build is not anti rosa at all. Dire Hydrant is way way way too obvious to use. You cant launch it at all. You can only go above Rosa and drop it straight down. Leading to shielded punishes.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Dire Hydrant is the only Hydrant that doesn't stop Rosa's UAir-chains.
I'd recommend On-Fire Hydrant (Fire blasts can deal with Luma too)

 

[Nu~]

I'm still in the camp that the Anti Rosa build is not anti rosa at all. Dire Hydrant is way way way too obvious to use. You cant launch it at all. You can only go above Rosa and drop it straight down. Leading to shielded punishes.

Dire Hydrant is the only Hydrant that doesn't stop Rosa's UAir-chains.
I'd recommend On-Fire Hydrant (Fire blasts can deal with Luma too)

Ah, I see. Alright, 1122 seems to cover it well enough.

But what should replace 1123?

 

[Firedemon0]

i think 1121 or 2121 are good options. PPJ has enough utility to be used alone, though it combos well with freaky fruit. Also, PPJ combos well with Default hydrant. No sets have PPJ and default hydrant. edit: one does 3121, so would lean more towards 2121

 

[Nu~]

Alright, I'll add 2121. I like the idea (freaky strawberry into power pac jump sounds awesome)

I may also replace 1122 with 1121 so that every fruit has the choice of a power pac jump and default hydrant combination.

So this is the list so far:

2132 (The aggressive trap Pac)
2122
2131
2121

3131 (The defensive zoning Pac)
3132 ("The stage is mine" Pac)
3121

1112
1132
1121

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I don't think you should have Freaky Fruit without Meteor OR On-Fire.

PPJ is a good match for FreakyFruit (Bell is usable! Galaxian is marvelous!) but you already lose alot of utility from Meteor, and not using On-Fire doesn't exactly help.

 

[Nu~]

I don't think you should have Freaky Fruit without Meteor OR On-Fire.

PPJ is a good match for FreakyFruit (Bell is usable! Galaxian is marvelous!) but you already lose alot of utility from Meteor, and not using On-Fire doesn't exactly help.

Well then we have to ask ourselves, does freaky fruit and on fire go together better than freaky fruit and power pac jump?
I thought that 2121 would be better for the Pac-Main that wants to focus more on fruit gushing than trampoline traps. More options is always good.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Well then we have to ask ourselves, does freaky fruit and on fire go together better than freaky fruit and power pac jump?
I thought that 2121 would be better for the Pac-Main that wants to focus more on fruit gushing than trampoline traps. More options is always good.

Yeah, the Freaky Fruit sets are good enough now.
This set is just pretty replaceable, so if we need room for another set, I think 2121 can be replaced first.

 

[Jay-kun]

It seems to me that freaky fruit is kind of (how do I put this..) freaky??
Cause lazy fruit makes a clear style for all the fruits.. (that is, being lazy) but freaky fruit is like a mix between fast/slow/different movements/damage/useability
Basically it seems that in order of what covers more options,
1. would be Bonus Fruit
2. is Lazy Fruit
3. is FREaky Fruit

 

[Spirst]

I'm personally loving freaky fruit paired with on-fire hydrant so far. I've yet to make full use of meteor trampoline but it's great for when people lose invincibility on the ledge and you just up B on them. Also, for on-fire hydrant, the sourspot tips of the flame that do 4% are actually great for hit confirms into KOs. Something I experimented with just now demonstrates this.

This does in fact true combo and as you can see, it KOd him at 80% which is amazing for Pac-Man. Granted, there are other factors that could've possibly changed this but this should be a good display of the power customs can possess in Pac's future.

Something else you can see me do here is utilize the empty fruit charge from a dash into the KO move. This is something we should incorporate into our games more since it allows us to use any of our standard moves almost instantly from a dash rather than shield>shield drop or waiting for the skid to end. It has a lot of potential when paired with hit confirms and the input is dash>B>Shield (to cancel) with the latter two inputs being done quickly. I'm aware it's been known but I've never seen it utilized extensively. Something else you can do with this is dash with a key in hand>ftilt with key in hand (input being hold down on control stick and C-stick forward) then read the airdodge for a key throw. Basically, this gives us better means to approach.

 

[Nu~]

I'm personally loving freaky fruit paired with on-fire hydrant so far. I've yet to make full use of meteor trampoline but it's great for when people lose invincibility on the ledge and you just up B on them. Also, for on-fire hydrant, the sourspot tips of the flame that do 4% are actually great for hit confirms into KOs. Something I experimented with just now demonstrates this.

This does in fact true combo and as you can see, it KOd him at 80% which is amazing for Pac-Man. Granted, there are other factors that could've possibly changed this but this should be a good display of the power customs can possess in Pac's future.

Something else you can see me do here is utilize the empty fruit charge from a dash into the KO move. This is something we should incorporate into our games more since it allows us to use any of our standard moves almost instantly from a dash rather than shield>shield drop or waiting for the skid to end. It has a lot of potential when paired with hit confirms and the input is dash>B>Shield (to cancel) with the latter two inputs being done quickly. I'm aware it's been known but I've never seen it utilized extensively. Something else you can do with this is dash with a key in hand>ftilt with key in hand (input being hold down on control stick and C-stick forward) then read the airdodge for a key throw. Basically, this gives us better means to approach.

Oh my god, that was sexy! Lol
You're the man, Spirst. Can't wait to incorporate this.

You can even use the strawberry as a means to get grabs. If you throw it and then either perfect pivot grab backwards or run backwards and pivot grab, you can grab the opponent in hit stun. It only works at lower and mid percentages though.