Guide Pac Attack - Advanced Techniques and Strategy Guide

[bekindrewind]

My prediction for Pac-Man's ultimate tier placement is mid-tier, most likely mid or upper mid. You could say it's a...gut feeling.

Low mid to mid is my realistic prediction.

You can debate PAC-MAN is the most unpredictable character in the game given how many setups you can do with his huge toolbox. Not to mention b reversing Bonus Fruit and the move itself is incredibly hard to get a pattern down in the hands of a good PAC-MAN. I would support him being one of, if not the most unpredictable character.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

A character isn't unpredictable.
It's how you play the character that makes him/her unpredictable.

Pac-Man just has a gazillion playstyles with an enormous tool-pool.

 

[Paper Maribro]

You make an interesting point, @ Nu~ about customs. For this I want to specifically look at On Fire Hydrant Vs. Fire Hydrant.

As any of you in the skype group may know, I tested some stuff out with the On Fire Hydrant and here are the results

All testing in training mode, on Mario from Centre of FD
Fire hydrant:

Water blasts deal 0% damage
Projectile Hydrant deals 13% damage
Projectile Hydrant Kills at 160%
Hydrant drop deals 9% damage
Dropped hydrant kills at about 200%

On Fire Hydrant:

Fire blasts deal 6% damage if right next to hydrant, 4% everywhere else
Central fire blasts kill around 180%, outer ones do not kill even at stupid percents and next to the edge
Projectile Hydrant deals 15% damage
Projectile Hydrant kills at about 130%
Dropped hydrant deals 6% damage
Dropped hydrant kills at about 300%

The main draw backs seem to be
You cannot hydrant dash
You cannot hydrant surf
You can be damaged by your own hydrant

Are there any matchups where that would be important to have?

 

[Nu~]

You make an interesting point, @ Nu~ about customs. For this I want to specifically look at On Fire Hydrant Vs. Fire Hydrant.

As any of you in the skype group may know, I tested some stuff out with the On Fire Hydrant and here are the results

All testing in training mode, on Mario from Centre of FD
Fire hydrant:

Water blasts deal 0% damage
Projectile Hydrant deals 13% damage
Projectile Hydrant Kills at 160%
Hydrant drop deals 9% damage
Dropped hydrant kills at about 200%

On Fire Hydrant:

Fire blasts deal 6% damage if right next to hydrant, 4% everywhere else
Central fire blasts kill around 180%, outer ones do not kill even at stupid percents and next to the edge
Projectile Hydrant deals 15% damage
Projectile Hydrant kills at about 130%
Dropped hydrant deals 6% damage
Dropped hydrant kills at about 300%

The main draw backs seem to be
You cannot hydrant dash
You cannot hydrant surf
You can be damaged by your own hydrant

Are there any matchups where that would be important to have?

Any rushdown character. It messes up their spacing, and makes it a lot harder for them to blast the hydrant away what with the possibility of getting blown back by the fire. It also gives us a much better kill move against heavier characters

 

[Paper Maribro]

Any rushdown character. It messes up their spacing, and makes it a lot harder for them to blast the hydrant away what with the possibility of getting blown back by the fire. It also gives us a much better kill move against heavier characters

I meant are there any matchups where the standard would be better than on fire. To me, it seems like the biggest draw back is the mobility changes but it does provide a scare factor and does provide Pac with an earlier kill move in most cases.

 

[Nu~]

Y'know...i'm not sure. They really seem like the choice should be up to personal preference.
I actually think the on-fire is better overall though

 

[Paper Maribro]

Y'know...i'm not sure. They really seem like the choice should be up to personal preference.
I actually think the on-fire is better overall though

Hmm, I was just thinking about it and it is a double edged sword. You can kill with it earlier, but if you mess up, your opponent can use it to kill you earlier. I would say it is better, but riskier and maybe less versatile.

Edit: No, it is more versatile. It essentially provides you with a portable hitbox that will either stall the match, lead to damage on the opponent or an aerial approach. This could prove to be an excellent custom.

 

[BSP]

Abadango is the sole Pac flag in the competitive scene at the moment. It doesnt help that because he is in Japan, less notice seems to be taken of him.

But I totally agree, could be a while before anyone works this character out completely.

I go to tournaments too, but I'm not a big name so my opinion doesn't carry much weight.

 

[Goggalor]

I keep on wanting to try out custom moves online, but nobody I play with likes to play with them. So I haven't had much time with them outside of Amiibos and CPUs.

What I have played with though, the Meteor Trampoline is my absolute favorite, and I always get tripped up when I play with the On Fire Hydrant since it has 3 bursts instead of the regular 2. The big thing I like about the On Fire Hydrant though is the fact that it makes it harder for your opponent to launch it back at you, since they risk getting hurt by the fire and it pretty much disappears almost immediately after the final burst.

So hopefully I'll gret some chance to play online with customs.

 

[Revibe]

Guys. Idk if Perfect Pivoting is the same as Turn Grabbing, but turn grabbing really really really makes a difference. It is a safe option for when your attacks aren't coming out fast enough.

Also! I have been trying to another way to use side-b, since it can be predictable, and can punish you if not careful. So, here are some angles I have worked up:
-Side b straight into the ground. Pac-man would bounce and lay as if he was down, but upon getting up with the A button, you can attack with a small frame of invincibility (also you can't be grabbed while down.)

-Side b onto the ground next to a hydrant. If spaced correctly, Pac-man will bounce then land on the hydrant, slide off it & immediately once off your free to attack again (especially with Nair.)

-side b unto the ground so that you bounce off the stage. It will take a second or two for Pac-man to be active again, but his recovery makes up for the pause with ease. Also you can use this to mind game the opponent to the ledge or off it.

-side b into a hydrant that can be launched to bounce off the spot where your side b ends. It will give you that few extra seconds to recover and not taste a punish move.

I am not gonna lie guys, Pac-Man can be a short range, long range, mid-range & off stage camping juggler.

 

[Revibe]

Whoops! I was only skimming the thread, but I totally forgot about page 2, where you all discussed the "pellet."
I still love it!

I am going back to reread if they said anything about letting your opponent break a hydrant so you can put a "pellet" in its trajectory.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Guys. Idk if Perfect Pivoting is the same as Turn Grabbing, but turn grabbing really really really makes a difference. It is a safe option for when your attacks aren't coming out fast enough.

Also! I have been trying to another way to use side-b, since it can be predictable, and can punish you if not careful. So, here are some angles I have worked up:
-Side b straight into the ground. Pac-man would bounce and lay as if he was down, but upon getting up with the A button, you can attack with a small frame of invincibility (also you can't be grabbed while down.)

-Side b onto the ground next to a hydrant. If spaced correctly, Pac-man will bounce then land on the hydrant, slide off it & immediately once off your free to attack again (especially with Nair.)

-side b unto the ground so that you bounce off the stage. It will take a second or two for Pac-man to be active again, but his recovery makes up for the pause with ease. Also you can use this to mind game the opponent to the ledge or off it.

-side b into a hydrant that can be launched to bounce off the spot where your side b ends. It will give you that few extra seconds to recover and not taste a punish move.

I am not gonna lie guys, Pac-Man can be a short range, long range, mid-range & off stage camping juggler.

Side B in the air into Hydrant or Apple.

People will try to chase and juggle you, but nothing's stronger than love a Fire Hydrant.

I'm gonna try the Pellet Pounce and see if I can add anything to it.

 

[Paper Maribro]

I once threw out a Power Pellet trying to side-b a Samus and she shot a fully charged charge shot straight at it. The pellet absorbed the laser and dropped on the ground.

 

[Rashid]

I once through out a Power Pellet trying to side-b a Samus and she shot a fully charged charge shot straight at it. The pellet absorbed the laser and dropped on the ground.

The pellet has a hurtbox (hence the fact it can be hit). It will stop any projectiles that hit it (except piercing ones). Better yet, it retains its hurtbox while on the ground, so you can leave it there for a bit as a small shield while you charge fruit or something.

 

[Paper Maribro]

The pellet has a hurtbox (hence the fact it can be hit). It will stop any projectiles that hit it (except piercing ones). Better yet, it retains its hurtbox while on the ground, so you can leave it there for a bit as a small shield while you charge fruit or something.

Oh and the bonus fruit have a hurtbox while they are charging too. I have seen them get hit many times, could prove useful if an opponent is in hitlag from hitting BF

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You can always Side B into projectiles when recovering.
The pellet will hit it and you can continue recovering.

Helps with spamming Duck Hunt Duos.

Oh, and on the subject of Default vs On-Fire Hydrant, I say that the On-Fire Hydrant isn't the surperior choice.

Default Hydrant makes Fruit fly away in different ways, so it literally makes Pac-Man 8x more unpredictable.

So it does depend on preference.
Trap Pac picks On-Fire
Walling Pac picks default

 

[Goggalor]

Oh and the bonus fruit have a hurtbox while they are charging too. I have seen them get hit many times, could prove useful if an opponent is in hitlag from hitting BF

I've actually been in a few matches where some lock-on moves, like Palutenas Auto-Reticle and one of Sonics spinny balls, will actually lock on to my charging fruit sometimes.

The Melon is also good for most characters that have spammy projectiles since it usually overrides weaker ones and it can act as a moving shield as you're trying to rush them down. In the case of Mega Man it completely overrides every single one of his projectiles, so it's one of our better tools against him.

 

[Teshie U]

You can always Side B into projectiles when recovering.
The pellet will hit it and you can continue recovering.

Helps with spamming Duck Hunt Duos.

Oh, and on the subject of Default vs On-Fire Hydrant, I say that the On-Fire Hydrant isn't the surperior choice.

Default Hydrant makes Fruit fly away in different ways, so it literally makes Pac-Man 8x more unpredictable.

So it does depend on preference.
Trap Pac picks On-Fire
Walling Pac picks default

I'd say On Fire is much better for walling and zoning as it automatically punishes your opponents instead of just pushing everyone around.

Its a stronger projectile thats more easily launched by items. What important about that is other zoners that might easily use default against you by launching it with normal projectiles lose that advantage.


Launching yourself and items around with a windbox is useful, but its not surprising to anyone that knows the matchup. On Fire commands respect and has true stage control instead of just confusion.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I'd say On Fire is much better for walling and zoning as it automatically punishes your opponents instead of just pushing everyone around.

Its a stronger projectile thats more easily launched by items. What important about that is other zoners that might easily use default against you by launching it with normal projectiles lose that advantage.


Launching yourself and items around with a windbox is useful, but its not surprising to anyone that knows the matchup. On Fire commands respect and has true stage control instead of just confusion.

You do lose a bit of utility in Hydrant Dashing and Fruit Gushing when picking On-Fire.
Opponents know that the water moves them around and that isn't spectacular at all but where it gets good is when you throw fruit into it and comes out completely different.
Orange suddenly goes 45 degrees upwards, giving Pac a fruit that charges early and covers diagonal spots.

Even better is Z-Dropping or throwing Fruit down into the blasts, it launches them backwards.

If you know what you are doing, Default Hydrant can screw up some opponents.
Just be sure you don't screw up either.

On-Fire Hydrant gives some serious pressure super easily, but the Default doubles the usefullness of Fruit and Pac-Man in general.

But it's also MU dependent.
Rushdown characters like Little Mac can Smash the Hydrant very easy.
While this can be used as a distraction, it does render your time to do things very short.

And of course there is a lot to say about On-Fire Hydrant too, like that it gives beastly stage control when coupled with Meteor Trampoline.

Tl;dr Default Hydrant has a lot of techniques with Fruit and aerials.

 

[Rashid]

I couldn't find anything about this in this thread. I just brought this up in the Skype group:

Pac-Man gets a little bit of extra height when using uair. How significant is it? You can't SH to platforms 1 level above you in BF without using uair. Maybe it's possible to use it when recovering (especially if you have the meteor trampoline) so "stall" or something.

Did anyone experiment with footstools? It's the only other thing we can do on shielding opponents besides grabs (lol). I've noticed that footstool -> nair works really well, since Pac-Man really digs himself while foostooling. You have to be fast/precise, though.

I need to experiment more with placing a trampoline at the ledge to limit their options. If I get anything working in a friendly match, I'll see if I can share videos.

Did anyone try to implement the Coldsteel? (ledge trump + attack; usually to gimp or KO) I feel that Pacman can't utilize it effectively because his vertical air speed is low.

 

[Revibe]

Alert Alert!
Hey, I think Pac' has a grab frame the extends like about a pinch behind him. I did a turn grab, and the opponent was just barely touching my back side and poof i had him in my grasp.

Oh, and I thought of another note worthy kinda detail. (I can't remember if we talked about it but o well here is.)
I dodge rolled while a spurt of water was pushing me, and I went about 4x the distance of a normal roll. Idk the exact sweet spot.

 

[Teshie U]

I couldn't find anything about this in this thread. I just brought this up in the Skype group:

Pac-Man gets a little bit of extra height when using uair. How significant is it? You can't SH to platforms 1 level above you in BF without using uair. Maybe it's possible to use it when recovering (especially if you have the meteor trampoline) so "stall" or something.

Did anyone experiment with footstools? It's the only other thing we can do on shielding opponents besides grabs (lol). I've noticed that footstool -> nair works really well, since Pac-Man really digs himself while foostooling. You have to be fast/precise, though.

I need to experiment more with placing a trampoline at the ledge to limit their options. If I get anything working in a friendly match, I'll see if I can share videos.

Did anyone try to implement the Coldsteel? (ledge trump + attack; usually to gimp or KO) I feel that Pacman can't utilize it effectively because his vertical air speed is low.

you can also drop through platforms and immediately uair to get the hitbox out and pop back onto the platform.

 

[BSP]

Someone mentioned how Trampoline bounce makes hydrant bounce while remaining stationary.

If you do this on the ledge, your opponent can't ledge jump, roll, normal get up, or attack without being flung into the bouncing hydrant for 13%. To set this up, you forego jumping offstage to edgeguard, but it's perfect if you don't want to take any risks.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I couldn't find anything about this in this thread. I just brought this up in the Skype group:

Pac-Man gets a little bit of extra height when using uair. How significant is it? You can't SH to platforms 1 level above you in BF without using uair. Maybe it's possible to use it when recovering (especially if you have the meteor trampoline) so "stall" or something.

Did anyone experiment with footstools? It's the only other thing we can do on shielding opponents besides grabs (lol). I've noticed that footstool -> nair works really well, since Pac-Man really digs himself while foostooling. You have to be fast/precise, though.

I need to experiment more with placing a trampoline at the ledge to limit their options. If I get anything working in a friendly match, I'll see if I can share videos.

Did anyone try to implement the Coldsteel? (ledge trump + attack; usually to gimp or KO) I feel that Pacman can't utilize it effectively because his vertical air speed is low.

Footstool into Meteor Trampoline is a guaranteed Meteor Smash.
This gives Pac a potent kill option.

 

[Firedemon0]

Footstool into Meteor Trampoline is a guaranteed Meteor Smash.
This gives Pac a potent kill option.

Ehh, the setup is a bit risky. If you time it wrong, your dead. I've been trying to bait air dodges and frame trapping with orange recently. Excluding a few cases with excellent recoveries, it is a KO.

 

[bekindrewind]

Someone mentioned how Trampoline bounce makes hydrant bounce while remaining stationary.

If you do this on the ledge, your opponent can't ledge jump, roll, normal get up, or attack without being flung into the bouncing hydrant for 13%. To set this up, you forego jumping offstage to edgeguard, but it's perfect if you don't want to take any risks.

That was me. I saw you use it on Tkbreezy's stream. Really nice job! I sent a request for Skype btw.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Ehh, the setup is a bit risky. If you time it wrong, your dead. I've been trying to bait air dodges and frame trapping with orange recently. Excluding a few cases with excellent recoveries, it is a KO.

Run of the stage and immediately use the Trampoline.
You're not risking anything this way.

 

[Firedemon0]

Run of the stage and immediately use the Trampoline.
You're not risking anything this way.

If you leave just a blue trampoline off stage, it wont meteor, You need to go offstage to trigger the trampoline to red. It only happens when it is red.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

If you leave just a blue trampoline off stage, it wont meteor, You need to go offstage to trigger the trampoline to red. It only happens when it is red.

Meteor Trampoline has a Meteor Hitbox at the bottom when jumped on.

 

[Firedemon0]

Meteor Trampoline has a Meteor Hitbox at the bottom when jumped on.

Are you referring to coming from underneath the trampoline? Do you have a video of this? We seem to have a misunderstanding.

 

[Rashid]

Are you referring to coming from underneath the trampoline? Do you have a video of this? We seem to have a misunderstanding.

When you bounce on the trampoline (either you or your opponent) there's a spiking hitbox just directly below it. Think of it like tearing a hole with a sword from the top bunk on a two-bunk bed.

It's slightly weak at lower %s, and it doesn't bury on the ground. It's unrelated to the trampoline's state (so yes, you can trigger it with a red meteor trampoline too)

I can take a quick video of it on my 3DS, but it's easier to just try it yourself.

 

[Firedemon0]

When you bounce on the trampoline (either you or your opponent) there's a spiking hitbox just directly below it. Think of it like tearing a hole with a sword from the top bunk on a two-bunk bed.

It's slightly weak at lower %s, and it doesn't bury on the ground. It's unrelated to the trampoline's state (so yes, you can trigger it with a red meteor trampoline too)

I can take a quick video of it on my 3DS, but it's easier to just try it yourself.

No no, that is exactly what I needed to know. That is bit more useful then what I thought he meant originally hence the confusion. While it isn't my cup of tea for edge guard options, it is definitely a bad manners type of edge guard and I would find it hilarious.

 

[Rashid]

No no, that is exactly what I needed to know. That is bit more useful then what I thought he meant originally hence the confusion. While it isn't my cup of tea for edge guard options, it is definitely a bad manners type of edge guard and I would find it hilarious.

http://youtu.be/OEj8z5JxmKM?t=6m30s

 

[CCCM89]

Oh and the bonus fruit have a hurtbox while they are charging too. I have seen them get hit many times, could prove useful if an opponent is in hitlag from hitting BF

very usefull against marth, I must say. make him lag like hell when he finally lands, making the key at point blank range all the sweeter.

 

[MachoCheeze]

Did anyone experiment with footstools? It's the only other thing we can do on shielding opponents besides grabs (lol). I've noticed that footstool -> nair works really well, since Pac-Man really digs himself while foostooling. You have to be fast/precise, though.
.

Footstool into Z-Dropped fruit is a really run maneuver.

Now actually sure of its usefulness but I find it funny when I pull it off.

 

[Grovfu]

Hey guys, I believe I found a new technique with Pac-Man. Or at least something that I'm not sure has been mentioned yet.

If you do a dair on the C-stick, inputting down on the control stick right when the first kick comes out makes you fast fall with it. I know it may not be super useful, but combined with a short-hop, this makes a really interesting way of approaching an opponent. If they're above around 100% and grounded, you can follow this up with a jab combo, and perhaps a fruit.

Unfortunately, I don't have video footage, but it's not super hard to do. I suggest going into practice and turning the speed down to 1/2 so you can see what I mean.

So pretty much this...

Jump (Preferably / ) --> --> (During first kick)

Any thoughts/questions?

 

[Teshie U]

I've noticed that about Dair, but its such a laggy and weak move that all techniques for it seem like a waste.

 

[Grovfu]

I've noticed that about Dair, but its such a laggy and weak move that all techniques for it seem like a waste.

I know that it's a considerably weak move, but I don't think it's a waste by any means. Like I said, if someone is at higher percent, this could stun them for a tad longer than your landing lag, or at least space them away from you enough to follow up with Jab/BF/Dtilt/Stilt. Even if it's not that helpful in that scenario, there's always the possibility of platform canceling the landing lag.

Although it's minor, I still think it deserves notice.

 

[Firedemon0]

I know that it's a considerably weak move, but I don't think it's a waste by any means. Like I said, if someone is at higher percent, this could stun them for a tad longer than your landing lag, or at least space them away from you enough to follow up with Jab/BF/Dtilt/Stilt. Even if it's not that helpful in that scenario, there's always the possibility of platform canceling the landing lag.

Although it's minor, I still think it deserves notice.

I would agree, except Nair is sooooo much better a choice. It comes out faster, has less end lag, and has more knock back.

 

[PacDaddy]

The best use of his dair I've found is as an OoS option. I think it's a good occasional mixup, and usually they don't expect it. Other than that though, it's a really situational tool. I really wish it reliably meteor spiked .