Guide Pac Attack - Advanced Techniques and Strategy Guide

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This was and still Is to a lesser extent my biggest problem. The only fruits where I don't freeze are the cherry melon and key cause they have A LOT of uses.
 

WeirdChillFever

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I figured out a nice trick that can substitute for the Pellet Heal.
Melons kinda "jump up" when you throw them against a projectile (dunno how strong or weak it must be) allowing you to catch it.

For a Melon into trampoline combo, for example.

I also tried to find a use for Down Air, I found a Dair -> DJ -> Key/Galaxian mixup
But you might as well throw out a Galaxian without the Dair.

Though the opponent flies at a reversed diagonal angle (not Bell angle, Bell falls too fast, though there might be this magic percent)
allowing for potential Star KOs.

Maybe Z-Drop Galax -> Dair -> DJ -> Up thrown Galaxian -> Tramp?
 

Froggy

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I figured out a nice trick that can substitute for the Pellet Heal.
Melons kinda "jump up" when you throw them against a projectile (dunno how strong or weak it must be) allowing you to catch it.

For a Melon into trampoline combo, for example.

I also tried to find a use for Down Air, I found a Dair -> DJ -> Key/Galaxian mixup
But you might as well throw out a Galaxian without the Dair.

Though the opponent flies at a reversed diagonal angle (not Bell angle, Bell falls too fast, though there might be this magic percent)
allowing for potential Star KOs.

Maybe Z-Drop Galax -> Dair -> DJ -> Up thrown Galaxian -> Tramp?
Does the side b even have good knock back if it's not near fully charged?
 

Norkas

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Nu~ Nu~ Perhaps you misunderstood me, I don't think it's good to follow a premade order of charging fruit, walling, catching and all this. I just think it's vital to be able to switch immediately between those, Pacman can always do something, charging fruit, catching them, extending ground control and so on. I'm still not that good as a player, so feel free to correct me, but I think using your given space optimally, defensive and offensive and everything in between, should be a central aspect of our gameplan.
 
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zekrom3112

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Could anybody please explain to me how do you cancel Neutral-B into an instant Down-B?
I asked Zage on Twitter and he told me he just airdodges and then attacks but I always have a delay when I try.
Is there an specific frame window for this or am I just doing it wrong?
 
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JuRiFe

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I don't know if it was stated, but. Jab jab fwd smash around 60s or 70s is very useful.

Also dwn smash is useful for stopping a cross roll and really good for faster character and works as fell as fwd smash for people like Olimar

Also, also, fwd smash just before landing opponent landing in front of you for a devastating smash. Hit box is as tall as Pac is

One of my last tips for hurtin shield or killing with with side b is letting the dot point to the opponents feet and then back up in the safest direction. This can be confusing to many when they see it. Side b from the top of the hydrant (semi circle) launches it and can also confuse the opponent when they are across the screen
 

JuRiFe

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Quick question everyone: What's your method for punishing planking?

After the 1st "ledge grab", any additional ledge grab doesn't have invincibility frames. (changed from previous games) I tested a few attacks out and I can't seem to find a decent option from Pacman to punish a planker (on the 2nd+ ledge grab). I guess Bell would be the appropriate option, but the ideal one would be a smash-attack of some kind.

Down Smash doesn't seem to hit low enough, nor does Forward Smash. :-( Is a down-aimed f-tilt the best we got?
Hey that other guys is right about back air. I encourage you to back air on the opponents recovery period as My man Pac doesn't have many options for far knock back for the kill. This gets rid of that pesky 2nd jump for the other guy and most people don't see it coming from a Pacman

PACMEN UNITE
 

JuRiFe

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Could anybody please explain to me how do you cancel Neutral-B into an instant Down-B?
I asked Zage on Twitter and he told me he just airdodges and then attacks but I always have a delay when I try.
Is there an specific frame window for this or am I just doing it wrong?
I never do it that way but charging off stage makes them wish that you didn't live that last hit. Also charge if knocked off screen. (The opponent does not know what you have unless you got key. Just keep count of the sound or seconds so Hou know what you have)
 

Prometheus_98

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@Zekrom the easiest way for me to cancel fruit is on you first time charging, tap b, the fruit will continue charging without you holding anything at all, then when you have your fruit, or feel unsafe, tap air dodge and then down b. doing it at 1/4 speed can help you get accustomed to how fast you actually have to do it.
 

Prometheus_98

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Ive figured out how to z drop catch z drop, the funny thing is it is as simple as it sounds, z drop( drops the fruit) z drop catches the fruit, z drop again drops the fruit, assuming your RARing, so you can catch it in time, its just grab, grab, grab. Also Ive found at least for cherry, you can combo z drop insta throw into any aerial up until the 80s for medium wights and up. Also as in abadangos video it seemed he z dropped then dropped to the ground so that he could refresh his z drop air dodge. so he z dropped, land, z drop( catch) drop, catch, and then he did several variants, catching it with nair, catching and then insta throwing and finally catching and then dropping again. Hope this helped cause it was a major pain in the neck to understand. My question to those of you who already know this tech is how is this useful outside of shield break punishes, you have to be extremely close to land this in the first place and pretty much every OoS option in the game outside of spot dodging will beat this.
 
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Splebel

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JuRiFe JuRiFe Hey man, try to keep it one post. I like the enthusiasm but there is an edit button. P Prometheus_98 I'm going to include you in this as well.

Also (for everyone) if you grab someone with Pac-Man and you know you can't kill them and they are at a high percent ~90% would back-throw be useful or would up-throw be more useful? I'm kinda leaning towards up-air against characters with bad air games.
 

Prometheus_98

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Sorry for the inconvenience guys, I'm super new here.... Ill work on it in the future:4pacman:.
Also Splebel Splebel It really depends on the character and the fruit you have in hand... mario I up throw as soon as hes past 40%, You can also throw most of the fruit into the hydrant water and they'll go up in the air to some extent. meaning he has pressuring options without even having to commit to anything himself. He also has a fantastic off stage game as well, so its really up to you on what you feel will be more advantageous and lead to a stock off.
 
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Nu~

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JuRiFe JuRiFe Hey man, try to keep it one post. I like the enthusiasm but there is an edit button. P Prometheus_98 I'm going to include you in this as well.

Also (for everyone) if you grab someone with Pac-Man and you know you can't kill them and they are at a high percent ~90% would back-throw be useful or would up-throw be more useful? I'm kinda leaning towards up-air against characters with bad air games.
If you can't kill them with back throw, o would either go for uthrow or dthrow. Uthrow depending on how vulnerable your opponent is in the air, and dthrow is for extra damage and to waste your opponent's second jump.
 

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Question for everybody... so last night I was trying to abuse z drops as per usual, so I tried using melon to break a hydrant repeatedly, however when I dropped it on the hydrant, it didn't make impact from it, meaning it didn't break it at all. Any reason for this?
 

PEPESPAIN

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You hit on the top, if you hit the sometimes that happends
 

BSP

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JuRiFe JuRiFe Hey man, try to keep it one post. I like the enthusiasm but there is an edit button. P Prometheus_98 I'm going to include you in this as well.

Also (for everyone) if you grab someone with Pac-Man and you know you can't kill them and they are at a high percent ~90% would back-throw be useful or would up-throw be more useful? I'm kinda leaning towards up-air against characters with bad air games.
I prefer Dthrow to at least go for an edgeguard. It's a shame our Dthrow doesn't send people very far though.
 

Nu~

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http://youtu.be/JaCkYr67HOM

Some bell combos I tested today.


I also have one that can set up a kill at 50, but I have to record it in a different video. This can potentially be huge for us.

Edit: ****. Forgot to account for staling. Ah well, the combo is tighter than this when my moves are unstale.

Edit: http://youtu.be/U2xbwiHT6fo
Here it is. The combo needs to be tightened, but this is the concept
 
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K~G|Spacejam

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http://youtu.be/JaCkYr67HOM

Some bell combos I tested today.


I also have one that can set up a kill at 50, but I have to record it in a different video. This can potentially be huge for us.

Edit: ****. Forgot to account for staling. Ah well, the combo is tighter than this when my moves are unstale.

Edit: http://youtu.be/U2xbwiHT6fo
Here it is. The combo needs to be tightened, but this is the concept
I swear i've seen the 50% kill combo done on Marth. I don't think it used the inital part though, it was just Dash Attack -> Bell -> Side B
 

Nu~

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I swear i've seen the 50% kill combo done on Marth. I don't think it used the inital part though, it was just Dash Attack -> Bell -> Side B
That is correct. I've done it before on my other channel (Procyon9Z) that I recently deleted to match my new tag.

@ToxoT is the official creator of it though. Yet he uses item tossed bell while I used bonus fruit charged bell in my video against marth (My method is much harder to land if the opponent DIs unfortunately...)

I just wanted to find a better way to confirm into the item tossed one.
 
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K~G|Spacejam

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Have you tried Dthrow? I feel like if they miss the tech or tech in place you could hit them with Bell, which you could catch and then proceed to kill them.
 

JuRiFe

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I prefer Dthrow to at least go for an edgeguard. It's a shame our Dthrow doesn't send people very far though.
The wonderful thing about Pacman is that he can stack damage fast. So unless most mid weight to heavy weight characters are 100 or above in damage do a dwn throw followed up by a side b with an upward arc. (Especially on edge)
The upward arc should aim to where the double jump will be as soon as the enemy jumps. This annoys people at tourneys.
 
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Prometheus_98

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Oooh, if we're talking about bell combos, Im working on one as well. OK so, I cant pull it off unless Im in 1/2 speed,but basically its based off of the bell forward smash footstool thing. So, when you do the bell, fair footstool combo, Ive found that if you're quick enough you can squeeze in a zdrop, footstool them when they bounce back up , then catch it, down throw it with insta throw, and then then do a run up foward smash.

So the inputs would be, b charged bell, jump fair, footstool, z drop, footstool, z catch, insta throw down, walk up forward smash.
It kills mario at around 80% so you get a bit more profit from landing the bell rather than the normal one which I believe kills at around 110%???
Alternatively with this you can also do the last half of the combo which kills off a z drop which is a lot easier imo to land than the bell with a very telegraphable angle.
 

MachoCheeze

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I don't know if this has been discovered/discussed before but I found this out when in the lab today. I noticed that the bell sends people towards us if we hit them with it from behind and I was like "Wait! What if..."
 
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verbatim

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Could anybody please explain to me how do you cancel Neutral-B into an instant Down-B?
I asked Zage on Twitter and he told me he just airdodges and then attacks but I always have a delay when I try.
Is there an specific frame window for this or am I just doing it wrong?
It's really specific.

I use a pro controller so I bind my y button to grab, thus canceling into hydrant from fruit charging is just sliding back and forth b->y->b for me.
 

Prometheus_98

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Building off of macho cheese's idea of using the bell odd trajectory, gave me an interesting idea. This is very much a work on progress but hitting the opposite side of the hydrant with a bell would send it behind you, which could be advantageous as a mix up because of the immediate threat being undetected. Ive managed to land it several times in FG, and one of the better advantages to this is at lower percents it allow you to use any smash or attack of your choice. ALSO, this can break shields, and if they are unlucky enough to get hit by this, the shield stun from the returning hydrant is enough to grab confirm. At best an extremely situational gimmick, but after all Pacman himself is a bag of gimmicks, so I guess it suits him.:4pacman:

Also a question about footstool that wasn't answered in the footstool video, When trying to do my combo, for some reason or another, I cannot go from fair footstool z drop, to another footstool. My guess is there's a timer, similar to the reason you cannot be chain grabbed in sm4sh. Or there might be a damage/ hit stun cap being required to perform another footstool.
 
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fromundaman

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Soooo we have a way to move so fast with DITCIT it almost looks like a teleport (1:07). This is super situational and hard to do, but also super cool and I guarantee no one will see it coming as long as we don't share this video everywhere.


I left in some of my MANY failed attempts just to show that even when we fail to do it right it can still have some useful results (And that in some cases, like with the diagonal melon at the end or some of the galaga ones, the mess up is better than the DITCIT).

EDIT: I should add that the timing for the super fast one is very strict, maybe even frame perfect, but we still get some good results even when we're off by a little. That said, the DITCIT seems to be slightly slower the farther we get from frame perfect.
 
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MachoCheeze

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Well I did this on accident but it peaked my attention so I thought I should lab it a little bit. If we roll while being gushed by the hydrant water we can use it for two different kinds of movement options. Depending on how you do it you can either

Make you slide after your roll like a regular hydrant gush

or

Actually extend the length of your roll to the where point you can roll the distance of about 1/2 of Town and City to the ledge. This method I've found to be harder (I don't think I pulled it off in the video above). I seem to to able to achieve it using perfect pivots towards the hydrant and then rolling but its inconsistent. May be a mechanics thing may be a timing thing. I'll post more when I figure it out.

I feel like we could utilize this to initiate a surprise ledge trump bair or as a mix up to surprise grab our opponents at the ledge for a back throw kill.

Sorry if this has been talked about before. It seems like such a simple idea but I don't think I've seen it before.

EDIT: I DID pull of the roll length extension around 1:44
 
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MachoCheeze

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Right! But I was thinking the extra distance from the roll could be a decent mix up.
 

Direspect only!

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It's not really a mix up as much as them not being as aware of their surroundings. But it is still useful.
 

Direspect only!

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I think as the game changes and more people learn how good pacman is, people will be more aware of him and he won't get as many shenanigan kills.
 

PEPESPAIN

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You can Jump Cancelled Down throw a cherry into Jump cancelled Usmash. It is a true combo for all the characters and it is a killing setup . You can combo it at any % ( too much % this stops working) and it is a killing setup around 10% before it stops working.

Mario -> Combo from 0 to 100 , Kills around 104%~105%. It kills before "fair to key (115%+-)" and after "bell to fsmash (80%+-)"
 
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Kaiyedy

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You can also down throw a cherry into uair/nair at mid percent if you're above them as well I believe.
 

PEPESPAIN

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You can also down throw a cherry into uair/nair at mid percent if you're above them as well I believe.
Almost every fruit combo with nair at any %. The most important here is you can kill with this trap ;)
 

Kaiyedy

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Edgeguard idea? Trampoline should be a bit lower and maybe more offstage to cover ledge hanging, but you get the idea.
 

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