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P. O. F. Presents: Tips To Grow As A Competitive Player

P. O. F.

Smash Ace
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
820
Location
2008 Melee Player
I know there are so many of these threads here on smashboards but I thought that I would hop on the bandwagon and make one myself. lol. I've been in the smash community for over two years now and currently play well over 5-8 competitive fighting games roughly.

Blaz Blue
SF IV
SF Third Strike
SF2T
Smash 64
SSBB
SSBM
Tekken 4
Tekken 6

While playing these titles i've learned how people react to certain things, what people do in certain situations, what characters people focus on using and why, and why top tiers are top tiers.




Now, lets focus on Melee. :)

Picking up a character:



Every single competitive player needs to have a "main." or someone they are most comfortable with. Cort-Peach, PC-Fox, M2K-Marth Zhu-Falco. Everyone has a "go to" character.

When selecting a character or a set of characters to use the most important thing to realize is that you are going to have to use this character A LOT. Do not switch between peach, fox, Falco, and marth all the time because it mess you up and you'll be inconsistent with your performance. Learn your character well and THEN go mix it up. Use this character a good 75% of the matches you play.Learn how well they camp, their recovery, their best offensive options, grab game, and basically everything. Worry about how technical and fancy you are with your cool combos, spikes, waveshines, side b illusion zhu stall, etc LATER.

Tech Skill and mind games:



Every single new competitive player tends to try to want to focus on tech skill and do all this pretty stuff. Thats fine and I think thats a wonderful idea. The only problem is.......it's not. When entering the smash community the most important thing is learning fundamentals. How to tech chase, punish mistakes, camp effectively, react to situations/bad/good DI, are a good 10X more important than you being able to waveshine link across FD and then usmash him. You can learn that all you want but if you can't pull it off in a serious match.....who cares? LOL. You may know how to shine to dair with Falco but if you cant shine a good player...you wont ever have a chance to do it. I'm beginning to see this more and more with every new player I see trying to watch all this footage and do all this technial stuff but the main problem is....people arent THINKING during matches and keep getting grabbed and then *****.

Bottom Line: Focus on fundamentals and basics before you try out your moonwalks and other crap.

Think but dont think TOO HARD:



When you are playing a smash match you want to think...but not too deep where you start getting all deep and crazy with it. You want to out think your opponent but fighting games aren't like Chess....you don't have to think 9-10 moves ahead of whats going to happen. A great example would be when playing Fox or a Falco as someone who can CG them. You want to pay attention to there percentage and think "ok, what can i doto them at this percent?" or if you just grabbed someone on the left side of the stage as Sheik, "should i d throw them to try to mess with their DI or B throw them and do as textbook?" When I play my smash matches I like to always ask myself one of two questions A- "Where do they want me to be?" or "Where can they go?" You never want to be where you think your opponent wants you to be and you always want to know the options of your opponent. You don't have to exactly "cover all options." but just be ready.

Bottom Line: Don't try to GUESS what your opponent is going to do, just wait for them to do it, prepare for it, and punish them.

Entering a stale is better than risking damage:



One of the most interesting things that I don't think people cover enough is that it is sometimes better to enter a stale than it is to risk getting a kill. When I say stale I mean a position where both characters are camping eachother and waiting for the next move or someone to do something dumb. When I say risk getting a kill I mean trying to pray for a combo to end when it might not or trying an fsmash only to find it gets whiffed and you get hit hard. A great example could be trying to combo Captain Falcon. You do a series of hits and stuff and then you try to finish him off in the combo with an usmash from Fox but miss it. Falcon techs your bair or whatever, punishes the lag with your usmash with his own knee and then grabs you again and does some tech chase crap and kills you. Only go for something if you know its there. Dont go for something that you "hope" will work. By not attacking or taking that risk you may not get that gimp/kill/whatever but you risk not hurting yourself and building your % further. Worst case scenario: you both go back to camping eachother and the match resets.

Play other games:



Yes, playing other fighting games (yes, even BRAWL) and actually games in general helps you improve drastically in Melee. Playing other games will get you good grasp of what people do in certain situations, get you better spacing, how people play to win, why top tiers are as gay as they are, build your mind games, and actually help your tech skill. Try playing guitar hero or a final fantasy. FF helps people slow down and think things through, Guitar Hero, Tetris, DJ Hero, Rockband, and Dr Mario will help your reactions, Wii Sports with friends helps relax you and just learn to have fun. All important aspects of growing in smash.

Taking A Break:




Taking a break from smash or going long periods of time of playing smash are fantastic ideas. Some people get better by consistently playing loads and loads at a time while others like to take a break because they tend to think too much. IMO, I think that is true with most smashers. If you play too much you begin to disect the game too much and look too deep into it. Sometimes the best way to get better is to just take a week or so off and do something else. If it doesnt work for you....dont do it. It works for me though.

What players to play with:



Cactus put this the best. You need a player your level, a scrub, and someone you look up to.

Scrub-To build creativity with combos and such.
Your level-someone to have competition with...to help each other grow.
above you-to see your mistakes quickly and have someone to look up to/help evaluate how much youve grown and such.

I also strongly believe you need more than just the same group of players all the time. There are so many different styles out there these days and everyone has their own way of playing Fox or Falco for example. lol. Playing as many people as you can is always good.

Never EVER Give up and believe you can grow as a player:




I kind of hate when people say before entering a tourney "ahh, im just going to lose."

Are you ****ing serious? ERRR, i hate that. Its the worst when its a specific match. "****, im playing M2K. im ****ed." Yeah, probably. But with an attitude like that you wont ever win or progress as a player. Yes, m2k is awesome and is really good but guess what? hes just another ****in human being. He can be beat and you wont grow as a player until your start building some confidence or sense of motivation. Gimpyfish put this the best "If you are going into a match thinking you are going to lose you should forfeit the match and not waste you or your opponents time."

I've seen so many and been in a few tourney matches where i've seen three stock comebacks and three stock leads lost. Giving up during a match or set in tournament is the most disgusting thing ever IMO unless its a legitimate reason like you felt like *** and you have a splitting headache.

You need to be confident and you need to believe that you can grow to become a great player. If you do not think you're good enough to be a good player, go play another fighting game where you think you'll be good then. lol.

Confidence is everything.

Have Fun:




The most important thing to do while playing is to have fun. Getting angry or frustrated is the worst thing you can possilby do. (I need to work on this) Getting frustrated and mad at yourself will only you mess you up further and cause you to make more mistakes. Relax, take a deep breath, learn from your mistake(s) and have fun. Getting ANGRY IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN POSSIBLY DO WHILE PLAYING ANY FIGHTING GAME. YOU WILL START PLAYING HORRIBLE.

Learning Multiple Characters:




I know that I covered above that using multiple characters is a bad idea at first glance, and this is still true. After a while and after you've built up a solid character to use in tournament and you start winning some tournament matches.....it now comes time to see other characters for their potential and really start exploring the cast. I know I use Kirby, Ganon, Roy, Falco, Marth, Ness, Fox, and Falcon. You want to use other characters because they will in the long run, help you learn your match ups with your character(s) and see what gay stupid things they can do.

Think about all the best players you can think of. Is MaNg0, Cort, and M2K just good with their mains or do they use multiple characters fairly well? All the best players know how to comfortably use every character in the game. I'm not saying you need to be amazing with them, but learn them and you'll find you will grow more rapidly as an intelligent player. This won't help with your tech skill for the most part, but your ability to think and react in a match.

Stages:




Learning where your character(s) excel is extremely important as well. If you main Fox you pretty much don't really have think about this unless you go to Brinstar VS a Jigs or a Marth picks FD against you. Other than that, you're fine on every stage in the game. Every other character needs to learn where they excel, and where they suffer from bad match ups. If you're a jigs main and someone says "Lets go to Corneria." You bet your ace you better change to your secondary or someone else. lol. If a Falco picks Dreamland against your Marth....change? Yeah, i'd do that. Learn where you **** against certain characters, where you struggle, and get comfortable on all neutrals. Sometimes its fun to use counter picks and see if you like those as well.

Tech Skill:




Once you get to the higher levels of competitive play tech skill is very important. Building your fundamentals helps your tech skill, improving your tech skill helps your speed, building your speed helps your reactions, better reactions improve your edge guards/gimps, and gimps and edge guards get you victories. That is my chain of success for tech skill. lol. If you use either Fox or Falco (chances are you do considering a good 75% of the smash community uses top tier.) than focusing on good tech skill is very important.
 

keeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
2,080
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
I get stupidly angry sometimes. I feel it cost me a set at my last tournament.

Good thread and good read, sir.
 

S l o X

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
2,838
Location
bridgeport, ct
I don't get how people take games so seriously. Don't play to win, play to get to the point that you know you can win...and for fun of course.
.
Great thread. More depth? :D
 

SleepyK

Banned via Administration
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
5,871
I know there are so many of these threads here on smashboards but I thought that I would hop on the bandwagon and make one myself. lol. I've been in the smash community for over two years now and currently play well over 5-8 competitive fighting games roughly.

Blaz Blue
SF IV
SF Third Strike
SF2T
Smash 64
SSBB
SSBM
Tekken 4
Tekken 6

While playing these titles i've learned how people react to certain things, what people do in certain situations, what characters people focus on using and why, and why top tiers are top tiers.




Now, lets focus on Melee. :)

Picking up a character:



Every single competitive player needs to have a "main." or someone they are most comfortable with. Cort-Peach, PC-Fox, M2K-Marth Zhu-Falco. Everyone has a "go to" character.

When selecting a character or a set of characters to use the most important thing to realize is that you are going to have to use this character A LOT. Do not switch between peach, fox, Falco, and marth all the time because it mess you up and you'll be inconsistent with your performance. Learn your character well and THEN go mix it up. Use this character a good 75% of the matches you play.Learn how well they camp, their recovery, their best offensive options, grab game, and basically everything. Worry about how technical and fancy you are with your cool combos, spikes, waveshines, side b illusion zhu stall, etc LATER.

Tech Skill and mind games:



Every single new competitive player tends to try to want to focus on tech skill and do all this pretty stuff. Thats fine and I think thats a wonderful idea. The only problem is.......it's not. When entering the smash community the most important thing is learning fundamentals. How to tech chase, punish mistakes, camp effectively, react to situations/bad/good DI, are a good 10X more important than you being able to waveshine link across FD and then usmash him. You can learn that all you want but if you can't pull it off in a serious match.....who cares? LOL. You may know how to shine to dair with Falco but if you cant shine a good player...you wont ever have a chance to do it. I'm beginning to see this more and more with every new player I see trying to watch all this footage and do all this technial stuff but the main problem is....people arent THINKING during matches and keep getting grabbed and then *****.

Bottom Line: Focus on fundamentals and basics before you try out your moonwalks and other crap.

Think but dont think TOO HARD:



When you are playing a smash match you want to think...but not too deep where you start getting all deep and crazy with it. You want to out think your opponent but fighting games aren't like Chess....you don't have to think 9-10 moves ahead of whats going to happen. A great example would be when playing Fox or a Falco as someone who can CG them. You want to pay attention to there percentage and think "ok, what can i doto them at this percent?" or if you just grabbed someone on the left side of the stage as Sheik, "should i d throw them to try to mess with their DI or B throw them and do as textbook?" When I play my smash matches I like to always ask myself one of two questions A- "Where do they want me to be?" or "Where can they go?" You never want to be where you think your opponent wants you to be and you always want to know the options of your opponent. You don't have to exactly "cover all options." but just be ready.

Bottom Line: Don't try to GUESS what your opponent is going to do, just wait for them to do it, prepare for it, and punish them.

Entering a stale is better than risking damage:



One of the most interesting things that I don't think people cover enough is that it is sometimes better to enter a stale than it is to risk getting a kill. When I say stale I mean a position where both characters are camping eachother and waiting for the next move or someone to do something dumb. When I say risk getting a kill I mean trying to pray for a combo to end when it might not or trying an fsmash only to find it gets whiffed and you get hit hard. A great example could be trying to combo Captain Falcon. You do a series of hits and stuff and then you try to finish him off in the combo with an usmash from Fox but miss it. Falcon techs your bair or whatever, punishes the lag with your usmash with his own knee and then grabs you again and does some tech chase crap and kills you. Only go for something if you know its there. Dont go for something that you "hope" will work. By not attacking or taking that risk you may not get that gimp/kill/whatever but you risk not hurting yourself and building your % further. Worst case scenario: you both go back to camping eachother and the match resets.

Play other games:



Yes, playing other fighting games (yes, even BRAWL) and actually games in general helps you improve drastically in Melee. Playing other games will get you good grasp of what people do in certain situations, get you better spacing, how people play to win, why top tiers are as gay as they are, build your mind games, and actually help your tech skill. Try playing guitar hero or a final fantasy. FF helps people slow down and think things through, Guitar Hero, Tetris, DJ Hero, Rockband, and Dr Mario will help your reactions, Wii Sports with friends helps relax you and just learn to have fun. All important aspects of growing in smash.

Taking A Break:




Taking a break from smash or going long periods of time of playing smash are fantastic ideas. Some people get better by consistently playing loads and loads at a time while others like to take a break because they tend to think too much. IMO, I think that is true with most smashers. If you play too much you begin to disect the game too much and look too deep into it. Sometimes the best way to get better is to just take a week or so off and do something else. If it doesnt work for you....dont do it. It works for me though.

What players to play with:



Cactus put this the best. You need a player your level, a scrub, and someone you look up to.

Scrub-To build creativity with combos and such.
Your level-someone to have competition with...to help each other grow.
above you-to see your mistakes quickly and have someone to look up to/help evaluate how much youve grown and such.

I also strongly believe you need more than just the same group of players all the time. There are so many different styles out there these days and everyone has their own way of playing Fox or Falco for example. lol. Playing as many people as you can is always good.

Never EVER Give up and believe you can grow as a player:




I kind of hate when people say before entering a tourney "ahh, im just going to lose."

Are you ****ing serious? ERRR, i hate that. Its the worst when its a specific match. "****, im playing M2K. im ****ed." Yeah, probably. But with an attitude like that you wont ever win or progress as a player. Yes, m2k is awesome and is really good but guess what? hes just another ****in human being. He can be beat and you wont grow as a player until your start building some confidence or sense of motivation. Gimpyfish put this the best "If you are going into a match thinking you are going to lose you should forfeit the match and not waste you or your opponents time."

I've seen so many and been in a few tourney matches where i've seen three stock comebacks and three stock leads lost. Giving up during a match or set in tournament is the most disgusting thing ever IMO unless its a legitimate reason like you felt like *** and you have a splitting headache.

You need to be confident and you need to believe that you can grow to become a great player. If you do not think you're good enough to be a good player, go play another fighting game where you think you'll be good then. lol.

Confidence is everything.

Have Fun:




The most important thing to do while playing is to have fun. Getting angry or frustrated is the worst thing you can possilby do. (I need to work on this) Getting frustrated and mad at yourself will only you mess you up further and cause you to make more mistakes. Relax, take a deep breath, learn from your mistake(s) and have fun. Getting ANGRY IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN POSSIBLY DO WHILE PLAYING ANY FIGHTING GAME. YOU WILL START PLAYING HORRIBLE.

Learning Multiple Characters:




I know that I covered above that using multiple characters is a bad idea at first glance, and this is still true. After a while and after you've built up a solid character to use in tournament and you start winning some tournament matches.....it now comes time to see other characters for their potential and really start exploring the cast. I know I use Kirby, Ganon, Roy, Falco, Marth, Ness, Fox, and Falcon. You want to use other characters because they will in the long run, help you learn your match ups with your character(s) and see what gay stupid things they can do.

Think about all the best players you can think of. Is MaNg0, Cort, and M2K just good with their mains or do they use multiple characters fairly well? All the best players know how to comfortably use every character in the game. I'm not saying you need to be amazing with them, but learn them and you'll find you will grow more rapidly as an intelligent player. This won't help with your tech skill for the most part, but your ability to think and react in a match.

Stages:




Learning where your character(s) excel is extremely important as well. If you main Fox you pretty much don't really have think about this unless you go to Brinstar VS a Jigs or a Marth picks FD against you. Other than that, you're fine on every stage in the game. Every other character needs to learn where they excel, and where they suffer from bad match ups. If you're a jigs main and someone says "Lets go to Corneria." You bet your ace you better change to your secondary or someone else. lol. If a Falco picks Dreamland against your Marth....change? Yeah, i'd do that. Learn where you **** against certain characters, where you struggle, and get comfortable on all neutrals. Sometimes its fun to use counter picks and see if you like those as well.

Tech Skill:




Once you get to the higher levels of competitive play tech skill is very important. Building your fundamentals helps your tech skill, improving your tech skill helps your speed, building your speed helps your reactions, better reactions improve your edge guards/gimps, and gimps and edge guards get you victories. That is my chain of success for tech skill. lol. If you use either Fox or Falco (chances are you do considering a good 75% of the smash community uses top tier.) than focusing on good tech skill is very important.

this is a good read for a below average to decent player.

1) pof is sub-average to decent in all these fighting games, btw. I'm not bashing, but i don't think i've ever seen you enter a tournament for any of them. iirc you play most of them online, and what works online =/= what works in tournament all the time.

2) yes, pick one character and stick with them. http://eskimosister.blogspot.com/2009/08/subtractive-playstyles-part-1-theory.html

3) basically you don't want to put in the wrong kind of practice. It is important to learn the technical aspects of the game but don't make it the primary focus. ZoSo and Darc are both not very technical yet they do extremely well. The issue with what you posted in this segment is that yes, you should practice it until yo ucan do it in your sleep, since then you'll be able to pull it out whenever you need to do it. "Noobs practice until they get it right. Pros practice until they never get it wrong." this entire segment is arbitrary and difficult to apply to each individual since some players just learn faster than others. some people perform better when they can execute well and learn the mental aspect/efficient aspect of the game afterwards. it's not the same for everybody since everybody doesn't learn the same way. the core message is good and fine, but the wording could have been better. in a sense, it should have tersely been summed up as "Practice effective tech skill"

4) this is once again kind of correct. you can "guess" what they are going to do in a sense that you can predict what they're most likely going to do based on your experience as a player and what you've seen while playing them. While it is ultimately better to punish if you can react to it, some players don't have the reaction time to punish things by waiting them out (like Mew2King or DashDanceDan) so a few of their reads and tech chases evolve from their experience as players and their ability to effectively cover the most options possible. This is how things such as marth's dtilt trap, sheik tech chasing, and at times falcon tech chasing work. you don't need good reaction time as long as you perform them correctly, you cover all or a vast majority of options.

in short, the title was good but the content was just ok.

5) this varies on player to player also, but in theory, a stalemate is preferable to risk. idk i just don't like watching two foxes laser each other the entire match and have it end at who has more laser %.

6) this also varies from person to person. GA Peach plays all of the fighters you mentioned quite well, but in order for him to play smash well he has to approach it completely differently from other games. once again this differs from person to person. a good number of smashers that i have known who play other games ultimately get angry or upset over the fact that smash has so many variables that you don't have to deal with in other fighters, so they quit smash. but that's just my experience.

7) imo the way the break thing works is that since the early part of your game revolves around trying to execute, you practice by yourself a lot and form a lot of bad habits. taking a break enables your hands and mind to clear these habits and allows you to play better. later on, when your execution is solid and you don't have a clear set of habits that always happen no matter what, taking a break ends up being a bad thing since you don't practice your execution enough to keep up with your mental game. of course, this varies from person to person.

8) this also means --- travel out of state whenever you can. playing a large number of different people expands your game knowledge and your people experience so you get used to tactics that you might not normally find. this part is pretty good.

9/10) yes. however, the three stock lead thing isn't necessarily related to confidence. just throwing that out there. if you know you are going to lose, try to change your viewpoint to that of a learning experience. you obviously will try to win, but instead of focusing so hard on winning it's also a good thing to play to learn. try this out. try that out. what is he doing that is beating you? etc.

11) i would honestly not recommend doing this very much for tournament practice. this is from the wobbles article i linked to earlier:

"I do not fear the ten thousand kicks you have practiced once. I fear the one kick you have practiced ten thousand times." The meaning behind the proverb is simple: a bunch of awkwardly performed kicks are no match for a single one done with utter mastery.
i made this mistake since i ultimately realized that i wouldn't be counterpicking characters such as captain falcon or game and watch in tournament. However, don't forget that the game is also fun, so feel free to learn a multitude of characters for funsies or if you honestly want to use them in tournament. I will say again that it is better to have 1 honed character than a bunch of mediocre ones. the other players such as cort, mango, and etc have very strong, developed metagames, so it isn't as challenging to use other characters.

12) this is kind of biased. Granted, fox theoretically works well on most of the stages, but what about player preference? some players just don't do as well on other stages as other players. others do well on stages they like. certainly stage selection is important in melee, but don't count out preference. idk the point is good but it needs to be written better.
Also, corneria is no longer legal lolololol
 

SleepyK

Banned via Administration
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
5,871
dude. theres was no reason to actually quote the OP.
You just stretched the page by a ridiculous amount. lol.
only if you're using a netbook or something dumb like 800x600


or did you mean vertically? in which case idc.
 

otg

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
4,489
Location
On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Honestly Tamoo, we all know that PoF is terrible at this game and should really never open his mouth about anything to anyone ever, but posting a video thats almost 3 years old is pretty pointless when trying to show how terrible someone is.
 
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