Out of the box improvement ideas

[Drodeka]

This thread is for suggesting small improvements that I think could be very helpful to making Project M a better game that I was for some reason thinking about just now. Feel free to share any strange or unique ideas you think would be cool to see.
Rules: Not balance updates or anything game changing. I'm mainly focusing on extra options and such, here.

1. Lvl 0 CPU in Versus mode
- A CPU that only recovers, as a CPU in training would. This would be useful for practicing doubles with a friend, and maybe a couple other uses could be found.

2. Deeper custom control options
- Being able to program a button that only activates tilt attacks, no smashes. Being able to program a button that only short hops. These kind of options could make absolutely new players able to experience the techniques first hand and understand how to use them. If desired, these options could be barred from tournament play.

3. CPU character select snap hotkeys
- Holding L and pressing B would snap 1st player CPU selecter into your hand, R for player 2, Z for player 3. I guess since there are only 3 slots open you could set it to work instead for L for first open CPU, R for second open CPU etc.

4. Infinite shield in Training Mode
- Being able to set the CPU opponent in Training to always shield and never let the shield deplete. This would make practicing shield pressure something that can actually be done alone.
(I think the melee 20XX training pack did this, not sure)

5. Technique Trials
- Similar to Street Fighter 4 and many other fighting games, there could be a training mode that would help teach players the techniques. I feel the PMBR has already taken a step in this direction with the white flash upon successful L-cancels being added. The trials could include short hopping, directional tilting, wavedashing, fast-falling, L-cancelling, and any combination of these in order. Due to the physics of the game, combo strings would be near impossible to program. But, if the time was taken, each character could have a specific trials mode in which many of their attacks and strategies would be explained as the player was told to do them. Think of it like the event mode, but oriented toward learning something.


Show me what you guys got!

P.S. Sorry if there is another thread with a similar concept, I didn't see any on pages 1 and 2 and also didn't want my post to be lost in such a thread.

 

[ECHOnce]

These are some pretty great ideas; they obviously don't affect gameplay in any way, and just enable the usage of simpler/more innovative user interface.

Not much to add on but a suggestions to the #2, concerning deeper custom control options. I personally feel that this...while it would let newer players experience how to use tilts, SHs, etc. before putting in time to properly learn them (thus offering more easily accessible motivation to uninterested casual players, etc.), I could see this being a double-edged sword; what's to stop them from only trying to use tilts, etc. using the shortcut custom control? That'd possibly be even more detrimental to their learning progress. On another note, if this were to be considered, maybe they could simply offer more button input options to use tilts out of, instead of putting in entire actions enabled by single buttons...like how Smashes can be charged via smashing a Direction on Control Stick + (A) or pressing a Direction on C-stick + (Z)...or how tilts can be performed in Brawl/SSB4 by holding a direction on Control Stick + C-Stick.

Loving all the other ideas tho!!

 

[Drodeka]

I guess I kind of see it how I see face shield button, which most of my friends used until very recently.
Personally, I wouldn't care if I were fighting somebody that used those control shortcuts, at any level of play, because it doesn't make anything technically easier or more effective compared to somebody who already knows how to do such things.

Your idea is very good though, and I like it a lot.

 

[alex6309]

I agree with #1, it could also be pretty interesting to recreate some event matches from SSBM using the level 0 feature and stock control. For example, there was an event where it was Mario & a level 0 Peach(Both with one life) V Bowser(with infinite lives) and you had to keep Peach and yourself alive until time ran out.

 

[TreK]

-PAL version
-Replays
-A way to rearrange the stage selection screen in game
-Better end game HUD that would display stats and **** for the commentators =3

I like the lvl zero cpu idea, I must say.

 

[ECHOnce]

-PAL version
-Replays
-A way to rearrange the stage selection screen in game
-Better end game HUD that would display stats and **** for the commentators =3

I like the lvl zero cpu idea, I must say.

There should def be a PAL version to let Euro metagame develop. That'd be sick seeing Euro pro players hopping on too.

Replays are available through the Wifi-safe build; it would be implemented into the full build if it could, but other features prioritized in the full set don't work properly with it.

Bette end game HUD for commentators is a pretty good idea

 

[Zujx]

-PAL version
-Replays
-A way to rearrange the stage selection screen in game
-Better end game HUD that would display stats and **** for the commentators =3

I like the lvl zero cpu idea, I must say.

There should def be a PAL version to let Euro metagame develop. That'd be sick seeing Euro pro players hopping on too.

Replays are available through the Wifi-safe build; it would be implemented into the full build if it could, but other features prioritized in the full set don't work properly with it.

Bette end game HUD for commentators is a pretty good idea

I saw a post somewhere here on the forums recently that said something along of the lines of that they will most likely have a PAL Edition by next patches due to some breakthroughs they've been able to make in the past couple months
so, be happy

I'm also very confident that a lot of the training related suggestions are close to if not impossible
It's really hard to mess with that stuff in brawl and for the amount of time it would take it probably would not justify the payoffs

 

[Daftatt]

Being able to program a button that only short hops is DUUUUUUUUMB. @ Drodeka get good scrub
... That is all.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

Sorry for the self promotion, but I made a long comment on another thread about 3 potential changes to CPU's (training mode changes mostly). They were for tech chasing (making it random), combo practice (make their DI immaculate), and the infinite shield thing you mentioned (also in training mode).

Also @ ECHOnce , I am dissapointed to see you changed your profile pic... As a long-time child hood collector of Bionicles, I appreciated it greatly. Also (sorry for being creepy). Did you move, cuz I thought you lived in a city right next to mine...

Here is the link: http://smashboards.com/threads/dont-play-cpus-youll-get-into-bad-habits.359281/#post-16984724
Currently it is second from the bottom.

 

[Exodo]

the level 0 cpu seems an interesting idea :D, something i have always wanted is team fights without the need of changing the colors of the character.. for example i want to fight both mario and luigi cpu's against me but i want them to keep their original colors.

 

[Daftatt]

the level 0 cpu seems an interesting idea :D, something i have always wanted is team fights without the need of changing the colors of the character.. for example i want to fight both mario and luigi cpu's against me but i want them to keep their original colors.

Happy hanukkah
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlVDt0-Nw

You ever think about switching the character costumes around in P:M to do this? It'd be a hassle but it'll get what you want. Make pink luigi instead be green and badaboom badabing everybody's happy.

 

[ECHOnce]

Sorry for the self promotion, but I made a long comment on another thread about 3 potential changes to CPU's (training mode changes mostly). They were for tech chasing (making it random), combo practice (make their DI immaculate), and the infinite shield thing you mentioned (also in training mode).

Also @ ECHOnce , I am dissapointed to see you changed your profile pic... As a long-time child hood collector of Bionicles, I appreciated it greatly. Also (sorry for being creepy). Did you move, cuz I thought you lived in a city right next to mine...

Here is the link:http://smashboards.com/threads/dont-play-cpus-youll-get-into-bad-habits.359281/#post-16984724
Currently it is second from the bottom.

Calling me out now? Aha, it is sorta cool to know that I've been noticed in that way I guess, so thanks for that. It is pretty off-topic though, so I'll continue on your profile lol.

Concerning changes to the CPU AI, that'll likely come with time, as some of the things people have suggested certainly seem to be doable...but in any case, practicing with real people via Wifi, Netplay, or IRL is always more helpful. Changes to CPUs would be kept more efficient if limited to function as aid for more situational or technical practice, rather than simulating actual matches; the amount of time, effort, and knowledge (both concerning MUs and programming) needed to develop an AI on par with human decisions would far outweigh any benefits when you could just practice with a real person. The smash community has always encouraged such anyhow.

 

[D-idara]

Being able to program a button that only short hops is DUUUUUUUUMB. @ Drodeka get good scrub
... That is all.

Why didn't this get a warning?

 

[ECHOnce]

Why didn't this get a warning?

It's all light-hearted sarcasm; he's not actually attacking Drodeka or his ideas with any offensive intentions. +Daftatt isn't someone who stands out as someone who comes off as that mischievous lol. Maybe if a member with worse rep said the same it'd be an issue, but it isn't here imo.

 

[D-idara]

It's all light-hearted sarcasm; he's not actually attacking Drodeka or his ideas with any offensive intentions. +Daftatt isn't someone who stands out as someone who comes off as that mischievous lol. Maybe if a member with worse rep said the same it'd be an issue, but it isn't here imo.

:v Eh, OK, I'm personally not againist shorthop as a tech barrier, since it's a tech barrier that falls within the core mechanics of the games, no exploits or weird-ass cancels. Also, most platform-game players know how to shorthop very well, and everything that gives more power to platforming as a genre is OK with me.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

@ ECHOnce

That is what I was going for. Simulating a top player would be too difficult. That's I chose situations where they have much less options to choos from.

 

[Drodeka]

I see Daftatt 1-3 days a week and we're pretty good friends, that's why it won't get a warning.
Actually, GIVE IT A WARNING! GET HIM!

Yeah for CPU AI I don't think much more needs to be done in that department. Honestly my only issues with them are that they suicide pretty often, but I never fight against them to practice, it's usually when I'm talking with somebody and playing Smash on Autopilot.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Happy hanukkah
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlVDt0-Nw

You ever think about switching the character costumes around in P:M to do this? It'd be a hassle but it'll get what you want. Make pink luigi instead be green and badaboom badabing everybody's happy.

I really like the idea to do that. One thing that always bugged me in team games was not having any degree of choice in what costume you picked. I think if everyone uses tags, then it wouldn't be that difficult to tell who is who, even if it's a battle with every character in their default costumes.

 

[Phaiyte]

I literally see 0 use of a "short hop button". Just say "let go of the button faster and stop falcon punching it"

 

[Drodeka]

I literally see 0 use of a "short hop button". Just say "let go of the button faster and stop falcon punching it"

I've seen many players struggle with short hops. In fact, I have a lot of friends who even now struggle to do it, and more so in Melee. Since there are two jump buttons by default, I see no harm this could do in aiding the player until they're comfortable short hopping without it. Same goes for tilt attacks. Most new players turn tap jump off just so they can up tilt without jumping.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I've seen many players struggle with short hops. In fact, I have a lot of friends who even now struggle to do it, and more so in Melee. Since there are two jump buttons by default, I see no harm this could do in aiding the player until they're comfortable short hopping without it. Same goes for tilt attacks. Most new players turn tap jump off just so they can up tilt without jumping.

But it's literally just struggling with pushing a button and taking your finger off it quickly enough to not full jump. It's not a difficult thing to do at all. I'm fairly certain that they even made it easier to short hop from Melee to P:M...so why people can't do it, I don't really understand.

Edit: If people aren't capable of short hopping, I recommend playing any of the classic Mario games where the height of your jump is controlled in the same manner of a short or full hop in Smash. Develop skills mastering how to control Mario or Luigi in those games and then try short hopping again.

 

[Exodo]

Happy hanukkah
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlVDt0-Nw

You ever think about switching the character costumes around in P:M to do this? It'd be a hassle but it'll get what you want. Make pink luigi instead be green and badaboom badabing everybody's happy.

oh sh*t nice :D, but still i would like to see it in P:M my idea was to put the name ontop the same color like in the picture.

 

[Drodeka]

But it's literally just struggling with pushing a button and taking your finger off it quickly enough to not full jump. It's not a difficult thing to do at all. I'm fairly certain that they even made it easier to short hop from Melee to P:M...so why people can't do it, I don't really understand.

Edit: If people aren't capable of short hopping, I recommend playing any of the classic Mario games where the height of your jump is controlled in the same manner of a short or full hop in Smash. Develop skills mastering how to control Mario or Luigi in those games and then try short hopping again.

I've never struggled with it, but I guess some people just lack the quick thumbs. Either way, there is no reason to be against it just because you can short hop fine. You have to remember that not everybody can easily do what you consider easy.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I've never struggled with it, but I guess some people just lack the quick thumbs. Either way, there is no reason to be against it just because you can short hop fine. You have to remember that not everybody can easily do what you consider easy.

I understand that, but should everything really be simplified to the point where people don't have to learn how to do things? (Not simplifying your argument, just asking a question.)
I don't want to go down the slippery slope fallacy, but could people not say that they can't get wave dashing down and need a hand to doing it?

At what point does a person's lack of practice with specific techs become the game designer's responsibility?

 

[MM3K]

I've never had any sort pf problem with short-hopping, however I have a hard time up-tilting without tap jump being off... am I a scrub?

Also, I feel accessibility options to help newer or struggling players would be alright, as it would allow them to use the tech, then they just need to learn the context in which to use in an actual match, as long as it made as harmless as the codes that remove l-cancel, or something like that.

 

[Drodeka]

I understand that, but should everything really be simplified to the point where people don't have to learn how to do things? (Not simplifying your argument, just asking a question.)
I don't want to go down the slippery slope fallacy, but could people not say that they can't get wave dashing down and need a hand to doing it?

At what point does a person's lack of practice with specific techs become the game designer's responsibility?

Hm, didn't think about it like that. It could be harmful to their learning process in that way. I think I have a number 5 to add to the list...

 

[DrinkingFood]

I've never struggled with it, but I guess some people just lack the quick thumbs. Either way, there is no reason to be against it just because you can short hop fine. You have to remember that not everybody can easily do what you consider easy.

Nobody lacks quick thumbs unless they have some kind of muscle or tendon disease or learning disability.
What your friends lack is willingness to practice.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Hm, didn't think about it like that. It could be harmful to their learning process in that way. I think I have a number 5 to add to the list...

Yeah, I'm all for making learning to do things simpler, but as far as I'm concerned, if I can do it, it can't be that difficult. I'm not at the same level as all these tourney winning smashers and I can still do most of these advanced techniques with just a bit of practice. It's just a matter of actually being willing to take the time to practice it that some people need to be able to do.

 

[Drodeka]

Nobody lacks quick thumbs unless they have some kind of muscle or tendon disease or learning disability.
What your friends lack is willingness to practice.

They are casual players that don't care about getting better. They will never want to practice to get better, but when they see I and my friends play they constantly comment about how they want to do the "crazy" things we do. I have one friend whom Smash is his favorite game, but he's just legitimately bad at games and I've tried quite a bit to make him better, but such little progress is made.
I guess I just want them to be able to play and have more fun. They say our fights are like Dragonball Z fights compared to theirs.

 

[DrinkingFood]

That's what I just said in more words. They lack willingness to practice

 

[Drodeka]

That's what I just said in more words. They lack willingness to practice

They lack passion to practice. They might have the willingness, if they had an interest.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

They lack passion to practice. They might have the willingness, if they had an interest.

Making it easy for them isn't necessarily going to help though. They'd just come out with a "We don't need to change, the game does" attitude.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

If possible, I'd like them to change the way you activate a FS. Make it so you have to press A+B or something. That way we wouldn't have to give up our neutral B move when we obtain a Smash Ball.

 

[ECHOnce]

@ Drodeka
Concerning SH difficulty, it'll always vary depending on the given person's main. Sheik and Fox can be hard to SH with as a beginner; heck, I main Sheik in Melee, and after years of trying to get it down, I still slip up SH'ing pretty often. If you're worried about closing the player gap and making it easier for them to understand SH'ing and other core mechanics that are important for more competitive play, I'd suggest encouraging them to try out a character with easier SHs as secondaries for maybe a week, or at least until they get SHs with their mains down. Sheik players often adapt to playing Pit very easily, and his is by far one of the eaiset SHs in the game. C. Falcon isn't as hard, but Pit works well for SHFFL training with him because of this, too. Those who play spacies because they want to eventually get into more technical play, but are still struggling with SHs, can try out MK or Lucas. If they don't want to try out characters similar to their own, spin it off as a good opportunity to play different character archetypes (I'm assuming harder SH'ers are quicker, so Bowser can fit the role easily.)

 

[Drodeka]

The concern specifically for my friends isn't to open their minds to competitive play, it's just to let the use the abilities more easily.

 

[0RLY]

Rather than teaching my friends how to shorthop, I teach them to attack ASAP after jumping. It ingrains them into letting go of the jump button sooner. In addition, this opens the ability to sh double fair with marth or sh double nair with samus. It kills two birds with one stone.

 

[ECHOnce]

The concern specifically for my friends isn't to open their minds to competitive play, it's just to let the use the abilities more easily.

Hence the option of picking up a secondary with whom the given tech/mechanics are easier to use aha

 

[archedmaid]

Im not saying short hopping is hard by any means. I can short hop Mew Two fair all day, but there are definitely times I need it bad and it doesn't happen.

 

[Exodo]

1.i have an idea that i have always wanted: Individual Special Brawls per Player, what i mean with this is that i can for example have the choice to either be mega or mini metal or clear, while my enemy has other modes or just normal. FOR EXAMPLE: i want to challenge myself to beat a mega giga bowser level nine while im mini mario, see where i going? so basically my idea is to have the choice to put my own special rules per player/cpu..
2. also about special brawl, buff the hp limit from 150(was it?) to atleast 300 maybe 500 to make it longer and more epic .
3. last but not least is also about special brawl regarding giga bowser, i just noticed he is not capable of becoming metal, maybe give him the ability to become metal?? that would be pretty cool also!!, like to fight a mega metal giga bowser!! that would be a nice boss battle :D!!

 

[ECHOnce]

2. also about special brawl, buff the hp limit from 150(was it?) to atleast 300 maybe 500 to make it longer and more epic .

IDK about the others, but this can already be done iirc. Go into stamina mode, and then into the options. If you enable the handicap option, I believe it allows you to increase/decrease each player's or computer's Stamina %. (anywhere from 10%-300%. The 0% just sets it to the default 150%).

You should keep in mind though that this thread's topic is sort of concerning ideas/features that would be aimed to help more competitive play or practice; casual/"fun" ideas are good and all, but they don't really seem to be the trend in this discussion. Just a heads up to let you know that your ideas may or may not get paid too much attention here in particular aha (;