Out of all the ATs, who got the worst fan backlash?

[Gyrom8]

no character is ever a lock

True, though the way people were talking about Shadow (even before the Grinch fiasco) was like he was the second most likely echo after Isabelle. And then Isabelle wasn't an echo. And then Shadow was an AT again. And that was the same direct that quickly killed the hopes for Spring Man and Rex, two other '100% DLC' characters.

However, I would argue that Inklings were pretty much a 'lock': Sakurai would have no justification for not including them (very successful new Nintendo IP, weren't too late as they were for Smash 4, popular with fans etc.) and unlike someone like Shadow, it wouldn't involve negotiating with a third-party. Every other newcomer in Smash could have feasibly not been included, but I struggle to see any scenario where Ultimate - even if it was just an enhanced port - wouldn't have had playable Inklings.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Isaac.

I honestly felt the fans had it the worst because Sakurai made it seem like he was an definite lock only to screw them over at the last minute. It was like he intended to troll them I mean why he didn't just reveal Isaac earlier I don't know but it would had saved them all the pain and all this speculation he was gonna be in. Then Isaac was absent in Sm4sh from being an assist only to return as one in this game. That was basically a slap in the face if you ask me. I felt there was no point in bringing him back if he was gonna be an assist again.

This is the only time I feel Sakurai honestly screwed the pooch because they've been waiting for Isaac just as long as my boi and I feel that isn't fair that we got him but they didn't get their character.

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't know if you were around in the Smash community outside of Smashboards during the last game, but Sakurai did a similar thing with Ridley in where he showed off his shadow on Pyrosphere in the April 2014 Smash Direct and people thought for months that his shadow might have been too small and he was actually playable. Than comes the 50 Fact Extravaganza Direct in October of that year 6 months later and BOOM! he's confirmed as a stage hazard. Sakurai really needs to learn to not wait so long to crash peoples dreams.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't know if you were around in the Smash community outside of Smashboards during the last game, but Sakurai did a similar thing with Ridley in where he showed off his shadow on Pyrosphere in the April 2014 Smash Direct and people thought for months that his shadow might have been too small and he was actually playable. Than comes the 50 Fact Extravaganza Direct in October of that year 6 months later and BOOM! he's confirmed as a stage hazard. Sakurai really needs to learn to not wait so long to crash peoples dreams.

I just recently gotten back into Nintendo so I had no idea honestly that did happen.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I just recently gotten back into Nintendo so I had no idea honestly that did happen.

How long were you gone?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

How long were you gone?

At least since 2013.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I wanted Isaac in and a Golden Sun revival as much as the next guy, but I was ready to accept the fact that he wasn't even going to be a character. People act as if his chances were very high, but his is a very a niche series that doesn't enjoy a lot of exposure outside of sites like this.
Almost every one in this board likes Smash and are very vocal about their picks, so its no wonder he is going to see support here. But outside of this place I doubt most people even want him in an active manner. In here, its very easy to create the perception that X character is very wanted to the point of including them, but accurate polling is very difficult to pull off and not 100% effective. There are a lot of demographics and opinions out there that don't coincide with what we want here, and we are probably like 5% of the total consumer base who buys this game.

I also feel that people overrate Waluigi's chances. I'm sure that a vocal group will express their desire for him to make his appearance but I'm very certain that his popularity and importance tends to get blown out of proportion.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I wanted Isaac in and a Golden Sun revival as much as the next guy, but I was ready to accept the fact that he wasn't even going to be a character. People act as if his chances were very high, but his is a very a niche series that doesn't enjoy a lot of exposure outside of sites like this.
Almost every one in this board likes Smash and are very vocal about their picks, so its no wonder he is going to see support here. But outside of this place I doubt most people even want him in an active manner. In here, its very easy to create the perception that X character is very wanted to the point of including them, but accurate polling is very difficult to pull off and not 100% effective. There are a lot of demographics and opinions out there that don't coincide with what we want here, and we are probably like 5% of the total consumer base who buys this game.

I also feel that people overrate Waluigi's chances. I'm sure that a vocal group will express their desire for him to make his appearance but I'm very certain that his popularity and importance tends to get blown out of proportion.

Sakurai said that the Belmonts or Castlevania scored high on the Smash Ballot. K. Rool and Ridley was really the only massively supported Smashboards contenders that got in. Simon and Bayonetta had barely any demand on Smashboards, but probably and did in fact have massive demand worldwide. So you're definitely right about us being like just 5% percent of the consumer base.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Maybe it was just me not being wary beforehand, but I never really saw Shadow get popular until after E3 and we knew about echo fighters. I never though about Shadow's inclusion; it wouldn't make sense for a someone to be a fighter if they had only gotten popular after the game's release.

But maybe he was pretty popular during 2015 (when the final roster was decided) and I was just oblivious.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Definitely Isaac, and for reasons others have said, as well as from being an AT in Brawl, missing in s4, and was only revealed later in this game. There's one thing that I just recently thought about, though.

When I compared Ashley and Isaac and the time they were revealed, it was Isaac's AT who got updated with new moves, so maybe that was one of the reasons he was shown later? Even Shadow got a little change with the small "time freeze" moment. Meanwhile, Ashley herself was pretty much the same, which I recently thought that was why she was shown earlier... same with Waluigi actually. I don't know anything about the Golden Sun series to say much else though, but it's me just thinking carefully.

 

[Deleted member]

Waluigi, because some five year-olds on the internet can't handle their ****ty meme character not being in the game.

 

[T-Donor66]

Waluigi, because some five year-olds on the internet can't handle their ****ty meme character not being in the game.

Hey guys, look at me! My “literally who?” character from generic jrpg #7 is SO much better than that MEME character and his stupid fans! Look at how above these people I am! Im so smart and mature, but I still generalize people like a tone deaf moron! Do I have any moral brownie points yet?

Pathetic.

 

[Dee Dude]

Waluigi, because some five year-olds on the internet can't handle their ****ty meme character not being in the game.

*facepalm*

Hey guys, look at me! My “literally who?” character from generic jrpg #7 is SO much better than that MEME character and his stupid fans! Look at how above these people I am! Im so smart and mature, but I still generalize people like a tone deaf moron! Do I have any moral brownie points yet?

Pathetic.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, you’re demoralizing Isaac fans unless you’re talking about Erdrick or something.

 

[T-Donor66]

*facepalm*



Two wrongs don’t make a right, you’re demoralizing Isaac fans unless you’re talking about Erdrick or something.

What are you talking about? I think Isaac has long passed “literally who?” status in the community at this point, and I genuinely like Erdrick. I was just generalizing him so he can see how it feels.

EDIT: edited typos

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If somebody flames another user, they're in the wrong. If somebody mocks another user, they're in the wrong. It doesn't matter if it's mocking a person who flamed others or not. Cut it out. Just report and don't respond. Never add to the problem. Let the moderation take care of it.

 

[staindgrey]

I mean, it's kind of Waluigi without question.

But the biggest injustice was clearly Midna. Fight me.

 

[NuzTheMonkey]

I mean, it's kind of Waluigi without question.

But the biggest injustice was clearly Midna. Fight me.

I completely agree with this. Like c'mon, Zelda is one of your biggest franchises and three of your reps are Links! Just one more character...
it didn't have to be midna, just put in skull kid goddammit

(honestly i feel this way towards the original 8 franchises, so kirby not getting newcomers kinda ticked me off too).

 

[YoshiandToad]

Waluigi, who is probably a bigger deal to most people than all the others combined bar maybe Shadow and Bomberman.

I doubt there'd have been as much Waluigi backlash as there was if Daisy hadn't got announced mere moments before. The two of them mostly appear as counterparts in Mario sports games both debuting in Mario Party at the same time and having comparable tiny roles in the Mario series outside the sports spinoffs. Seems to be some sort of rivalry between the general fanbases too from what I've seen on Youtube, Tumblr, DeviantArt and Reddit so I can only assume that fanned some flames.

Springman was still the most surprising to me. I saw Skull Kid, Ashley and even Isaac not making it despite all the fan hype, but I really would have put money on ARMS getting a character.

 

[Lenidem]

Who received the most backlash? I'm not often enough on the social network to know. But I think Skull Kid is (a bit) underestimated, because he didn't even appear in the last Smash Direct : people couldn't react to his discomfirmation live, in front of their cam, like for Isaac and Shadow, because you had to check the AT section to learn that he was an assist...

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I doubt there'd have been as much Waluigi backlash as there was if Daisy hadn't got announced mere moments before. The two of them mostly appear as counterparts in Mario sports games both debuting in Mario Party at the same time and having comparable tiny roles in the Mario series outside the sports spinoffs. Seems to be some sort of rivalry between the general fanbases too from what I've seen on Youtube, Tumblr, DeviantArt and Reddit so I can only assume that fanned some flames.

I don't see much sense in doing damage control by changing the order of the announcements just to ease people into the inevitable truth. It doesn't matter if they hadn't showed Waluigi as an Assist Trophy right after Daisy was announced as a fighter or if Daisy wasn't revealed early on; that wouldn't have caused those people to feel any better or take it less personally.

We speak of this "backlash" as if it was a PR disaster that Nintendo needed to address immediately before Ultimate's release, when the scope of the issue is probably just a couple of dudes on Social Media and Youtube making angry remarks at Waluigi not being in the game. Backlash is a more proper term for an actual problem like Mighty Number 9's advertisement campaign courtesy of Deep Silver insulting the consumers or Deus Ex Mankind Divided's shady pre order bonuses.
As we speak, Ultimate's sales are bonkers in Japan, surpassing Smash 3DS sales already (source: https://twitter.com/GameDataLibrary/status/1083941528685424640), and that is probably true for the rest of the world. The game offers more than enough content already, and I doubt that a group of miffed Waluigi fans, Isaac fans or Geno fans, etc. would have affected sales and reception negatively to change the current situation.

 

[Dee Dude]

I don't see much sense in doing damage control by changing the order of the announcements just to ease people into the inevitable truth. It doesn't matter if they hadn't showed Waluigi as an Assist Trophy right after Daisy was announced as a fighter or if Daisy wasn't revealed early on; that wouldn't have caused those people to feel any better or take it less personally.

We speak of this "backlash" as if it was a PR disaster that Nintendo needed to address immediately before Ultimate's release, when the scope of the issue is probably just a couple of dudes on Social Media and Youtube making angry remarks at Waluigi not being in the game. Backlash is a more proper term for an actual problem like Mighty Number 9's advertisement campaign courtesy of Deep Silver insulting the consumers or Deus Ex Mankind Divided's shady pre order bonuses.
As we speak, Ultimate's sales are bonkers in Japan, surpassing Smash 3DS sales already (source: https://twitter.com/GameDataLibrary/status/1083941528685424640), and that is probably true for the rest of the world. The game offers more than enough content already, and I doubt that a group of miffed Waluigi fans, Isaac fans or Geno fans, etc. would have affected sales and reception negatively to change the current situation.

Character backlash isn’t necessarily an actual problem of effecting the game’s sales and such, it’s more or less showing disappointment towards characters that some fans have anticipated but didn’t meet their personal desires so they try to be more vocal so they can be aware of certain requests, even if it’s only generic PR talk if they say they’re aware.

 

[Arcadenik]

Waluigi, no doubt.

Skull Kid, Isaac, and Ashley may generate salt but not as much as Waluigi did that even Nintendo and Sakurai noticed the backlash.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I don't see much sense in doing damage control by changing the order of the announcements just to ease people into the inevitable truth. It doesn't matter if they hadn't showed Waluigi as an Assist Trophy right after Daisy was announced as a fighter or if Daisy wasn't revealed early on; that wouldn't have caused those people to feel any better or take it less personally.

We speak of this "backlash" as if it was a PR disaster that Nintendo needed to address immediately before Ultimate's release, when the scope of the issue is probably just a couple of dudes on Social Media and Youtube making angry remarks at Waluigi not being in the game. Backlash is a more proper term for an actual problem like Mighty Number 9's advertisement campaign courtesy of Deep Silver insulting the consumers or Deus Ex Mankind Divided's shady pre order bonuses.
As we speak, Ultimate's sales are bonkers in Japan, surpassing Smash 3DS sales already (source: https://twitter.com/GameDataLibrary/status/1083941528685424640), and that is probably true for the rest of the world. The game offers more than enough content already, and I doubt that a group of miffed Waluigi fans, Isaac fans or Geno fans, etc. would have affected sales and reception negatively to change the current situation.

Even though it makes no sense people are going to treat it like a PR problem and be mad at Nintendo regardless. If they had shown Isaac, Shadow, etc. right away then people wouldn't have been holding their breath as much and the Grinch leak would have never happened, and the reception after the November direct would have been a bit more positive.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Even though it makes no sense people are going to treat it like a PR problem and be mad at Nintendo regardless. If they had shown Isaac, Shadow, etc. right away then people wouldn't have been holding their breath as much and the Grinch leak would have never happened, and the reception after the November direct would have been a bit more positive.

Sucks for those people then.

And I don't see how Nintendo is to blame here for the Grinch Leak. People make that stuff up because they want their 15 minutes of internet fame; they are the ones responsible for deceiving those who believed that leak,

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Sucks for those people then.

And I don't see how Nintendo is to blame here for the Grinch Leak. People make that stuff up because they want their 15 minutes of internet fame; they are the ones responsible for deceiving those who believed that leak,

That's my point. Even though they're foolish to blame Nintendo for the Grinch leak.....they still do. And that's where a lot of backlash is coming from.

 

[soviet prince]

the grinch leak would still exsist just with different characters

 

[Goddamn_Angela]

Isaac.

I honestly felt the fans had it the worst because Sakurai made it seem like he was an definite lock only to screw them over at the last minute. It was like he intended to troll them I mean why he didn't just reveal Isaac earlier I don't know but it would had saved them all the pain and all this speculation he was gonna be in. Then Isaac was absent in Sm4sh from being an assist only to return as one in this game. That was basically a slap in the face if you ask me. I felt there was no point in bringing him back if he was gonna be an assist again.

This is the only time I feel Sakurai honestly screwed the pooch because they've been waiting for Isaac just as long as my boi and I feel that isn't fair that we got him but they didn't get their character.

Yeah but besides Shadow none of those characters seemed to had gotten any other "hints" that they were a lock.

This is ridiculous.

Just because people took things as "hints" of Isaac's inclusion as a fighter does not mean that they were hints of his inclusion or that Sakurai was "trolling". Sakurai doesn't owe Isaac fans Isaac as a playable character and Nintendo, in no way, had to let them know that he wasn't a useable character any early than they did.

Like, are you kidding me with this? It is not on Sakurai or Nintendo to reveal any character before they want to, and if you or anyone else gets upset that a character (like Isacc) wasn't revealed as an AT early or that something makes you believe that a character will be in it, and that they are a "lock", is on you. Not Sakurai or Nintendo.

Also, they brought back a ton of ATs. How is it a slap in the face to bring Isaac back as one? At least he is in the game.

Anyway I voted for Waluigi.

 

[Lenidem]

Of course, Nintendo doesn't have to do anything. But try to see things from Skull Kid or Shadow fans' point of vue.

- Very early, the Moon/Knuckle is shown;
- No trace from Skull Kid/Shadow;
- You start thinking that the new trophy probably replaces the old one, given that they are so close from each other; if so, the character you want is probably playable;
- Time passes;
- Surprise: your character is still an assist!

Not the best strategy from Nintendo...

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt there'd have been as much Waluigi backlash as there was if Daisy hadn't got announced mere moments before. The two of them mostly appear as counterparts in Mario sports games both debuting in Mario Party at the same time and having comparable tiny roles in the Mario series outside the sports spinoffs. Seems to be some sort of rivalry between the general fanbases too from what I've seen on Youtube, Tumblr, DeviantArt and Reddit so I can only assume that fanned some flames.

You hit the nail on the head.

I know for me personally, Waluigi being shown as an Assist again was especially painful due to Daisy's appearance actually giving me hope he'd be a fighter as well.
Before then, I was fully prepared for the Assist status once more and didn't really have hopes for otherwise.

 

[Dee Dude]

I really don’t understand why people go “Just because their Assist was wasn’t shown early doesn’t mean they’ll be playable you doofus!!”

Try telling that to all the lucky fans who’ve not only lived through the massacres but outright won.

Not showing your AT for a long time doesn’t always mean they’re a lock but it can fool people into thinking they’ll finally have a shot of making it to the roster only to show go “Lol nah, here’s their AT. Sorry about that false build-up.”

You want to deconfirm popular requests as ATs then rip the damn band-aid off like they did with Waluigi, it’s how I got over his exclusion easily.

 

[Lenidem]

Yep, I should have added one step:

- You see other formers assists being promoted.

 

[SvartWolf]

Wow... Lyn is that obscure now that she doesn't even make it on the list?

 

[Darktheumbreon]

From the arguing I'd say people really still can't decide.

BUT if i had to pick, Waluigi and Ashley had some...strange reactions from small amounts of "fans". My opinion may be biased though, as I wasn't really checking smashboards post-final direct.

 

[perfectchaos83]

My bias wants to say Ashley, but the answer is clearly Waluigi.

Eitherway, I hope they have long term plans for ultimate outside of the current FIghters Pass. It's the only way I see my preferred character making it in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Goddamn_Angela]

I really don’t understand why people go “Just because their Assist was wasn’t shown early doesn’t mean they’ll be playable you doofus!!”

Try telling that to all the lucky fans who’ve not only lived through the massacres but outright won.

Not showing your AT for a long time doesn’t always mean they’re a lock but it can fool people into thinking they’ll finally have a shot of making it to the roster only to show go “Lol nah, here’s their AT. Sorry about that false build-up.”

You want to deconfirm popular requests as ATs then rip the damn band-aid off like they did with Waluigi, it’s how I got over his exclusion easily.

It wasn't "build up" though.

Again just because you, or anyone else, took them not showing the AT as some sort of hint or build-up toward the character being playable is on YOU not on Sakurai or Nintendo. Were they just suppose to show all the "popular" ATs in the first few videos?

Sorry you and anyone else feel that they "trolled" you or dragged you along, but I 100% do not believe that was their intention. And, again, they don't owe you the character or an early "reveal".

 

[Diddy Kong]

Isaac was pretty bad. The reveal just after a couple of character reveals and the AT character show case starting with Golden Sun music plus that Rathalos tweet was just too much...

 

[Lenidem]

It wasn't "build up" though.

Again just because you, or anyone else, took them not showing the AT as some sort of hint or build-up toward the character being playable is on YOU not on Sakurai or Nintendo. Were they just suppose to show all the "popular" ATs in the first few videos?

Sorry you and anyone else feel that they "trolled" you or dragged you along, but I 100% do not believe that was their intention. And, again, they don't owe you the character or an early "reveal".

You are not really trying to understand, are you?

Let's recap:

- Very early, the Moon/Knuckle is shown;
- No trace from Skull Kid/Shadow;
- You start thinking that the new trophy probably replaces the old one, given that they are so close from each other;
- You see other former assists being promoted;
- You start to think that the character you want has good chances to be playable;
- Time passes;
- At the very last possible moment, you learn that your character is still an assist.

Again, nobody is saying that Nintendo « owes » us anything or that they were trolling, at least I am not. But if they had been clever enough to show the Skull Kid/Shadow assists at the beginning, and kept the Moon/Knuckle for the end, nobody would have hoped, and the disappointment would have been a lot smaller. So yes, I think they should deconfirm the popular assists as soon as possible, especially when a new assist close to the older one is revealed. It's easy to do, it makes sense, and everybody wins.

 

[soviet prince]

Nintendo is not responsible for the fans jumping to conclusions its the fanbase's own fault just like the shadow for ridley was the fault of us ridley fans.

 

[Lenidem]

Ok, I give up.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Maybe it was just me not being wary beforehand, but I never really saw Shadow get popular until after E3 and we knew about echo fighters. I never though about Shadow's inclusion; it wouldn't make sense for a someone to be a fighter if they had only gotten popular after the game's release.

But maybe he was pretty popular during 2015 (when the final roster was decided) and I was just oblivious.

Shadow's always been a popular figure. You'll see him chart high in Sonic character lists, and he had precedent in the sense that he seemed like an easy semi-clone job at worst.

So, with people already wanting him in, speculation only rose when the term echo fighters were coined and he wasn't seen as an AT. With the August direct, it appeared that Nintendo were heavily listening to fans and again, Shadow didn't show up as an assist.

Shadow had high popularity, business marketing sense, considering how even SEGA were pumping him to the point that he's playable in Sonic Forces, a modern Sonic platformer, and the whole spiel with him being a less resource-wasteful character considering how he's inherently the Luigi at worst, to Sonic's Mario.

I don't ever consider any character a lock, but dang, Shadow was close to feeling like one with all that in his favor. Relevancy, popularity and similarity.

 

[soviet prince]

shadow no luigi tails fits that bill more