Our Community And The Future Of Smash

[LiteralGrill]

Okay, this has came up in so many separate threads that aren't even related to the subject at hand to the point where it seems it needs to have a thread of its own where it can be discussed properly.

Let's be honest with ourselves. #oneunit is a joke, farce, and a lie. We are not together in any way. Our community is horribly split, whether it be Melee vs Brawl, Melee vs Smash 4, 3DS vs Wii U, Project M vs Smash 4/Melee/Brawl, and even Smash 64 tends to isolate itself from newcomers at times. In other words, out community is fractured and fracturing more and more as time goes by. Threads are devolving into arguments left and right, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down. We may share venues for events, but we couldn't be farther apart as a community.

So the real question is, how do we deal with this? If it continues, it only serves to hurt us all as a community. It makes us look immature and uninviting to outsiders, and will stunt our community growth. After coming so far these last few years and building more and more with sponsorship, bigger events, and Nintendo giving us a special tournament we have the possibility of going into a new era of smash bigger then ever before and we stand as a community ready to possibly throw it away over these kinds of petty squabbles and only get a fraction of what is possible in terms of success.

We face a future of a new game with no many new features and possibilities that also already shows how people excited for the same game can't even get along and have a civil conversation as well. Why is civility so hard for us all to manage

TLDR; What does it take to finally stop all of our petty squabbles, for us to all be civil with each other, and actually come together as a community?

 

[Malex]

Easiest method is the introduction of a counterculture. Who we can we universally hate?

 

[guedes the brawler]

Easiest method is the introduction of a counterculture. Who we can we universally hate?

the smash community, united against tripping

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Easiest method is the introduction of a counterculture. Who we can we universally hate?

People who say Smash isn't a fighting game.

I think people are too set in their ways to come together at this point. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Easiest method is the introduction of a counterculture. Who we can we universally hate?

Actually... Man this sucks but you know sadly this would work if we could actually find something reasonable to hate... That alone says said things for our community.

Honestly, is that the problem Brawl has? We needed something to hate, and Brawl was just easy?

 

[ImaClubYou]

We should just murder, pillage, and destroy the haters


But seriously. I really don't understand the "hate just to hate" state of mind. It's boring, generic, and borderline cringe worthy. There's no reason for our community to be split. We should just accept what game everyone plays and leave it at that. No one is forcing you to watch the fights(personally, I'm hardcore Melee), so just leave it at that.

I really think the Smash Documentary, though it helped our community greatly, has put a hole in what was once a dying argument and brought it back to life. That being, every time Brawl was talked about, it was pretty much only negative.

 

[Clavaat]

I actually made a new account to respond to this haha. (Old one was made around Brawl release, just started visiting again)

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about this. From what I've seen, this community is far more accepting than others, be it fighting game, MMO or otherwise. I play Final Fantasy 14 a lot, and if you followed the forums, you'd think everything in the game was horrible. When you are accessible to hundreds of thousands of players, you're bound to find people of differing opinions.

When Brawl was being released, we saw the same things; "omg no techs" "so slow" etc. But those people went away after awhile. They stopped bothering on the boards, and went to the Melee boards or stopped posting entirely. The Brawl players were content to keep playing and learning what they could. It's really just a cycle.

You're bound to see a lot more of these kinds of threads now, considering the new game will be releasing soon. People look up "smash bros info" on google and this is one of the first sites that will pop up, due to its popularity. The same people will spout whatever comes into their head, because they don't care about the repercussions. And they'll leave.

I respect your efforts. I think it boils down to time.

 

[Phaazoid]

@ Clavaat
Your avatar looks like a facemix of The Eleventh Doctor and Dr. Manhattan from watchmen

It's quite disturbing

 

[Khao]

The best thing to do is just accept that this is not just one community.

Trying to get everyone "together" is basically just blind preaching for the hope of conversion, everyone has different interests, and it's best to just accept it, not everyone has to be best pals with eachother as long as there's no blind hate inbetween.

Basically, as long as no side keeps attacking the other side and putting effort into bringing others into their side to the point of insanity, then there can perfectly be multiple sides coexisting in harmony and ****. sometimes, respecting others is better than trying to get everyone to be BFFs.

 

[Deleted member]

The best thing to do is just accept that this is not just one community.

Trying to get everyone "together" is basically just blind preaching for the hope of conversion, everyone has different interests, and it's best to just accept it, not everyone has to be best pals with eachother as long as there's no blind hate inbetween.

Basically, as long as no side keeps attacking the other side and putting effort into bringing others into their side to the point of insanity, then there can perfectly be multiple sides coexisting in harmony and ****.

Smash Bros., Melee, Brawl, 4.

Long ago, the 4 games lived in harmony, but then, everything changed when *insert event here* attacked.

 

[Phaazoid]

Smash Bros., Melee, Brawl, 4.

Long ago, the 4 games lived in harmony, but then, everything changed when *the fire nation* attacked.

there ya go

 

[Khao]

Smash Bros., Melee, Brawl, 4.

Long ago, the 4 games lived in harmony, but then, everything changed when *insert event here* attacked.

Only the Sakurai can master all four titles, and bring balance to the game.

 

[Phaazoid]

Only the Sakurai can master all four titles, and bring balance to the game.

Is project M the sandbenders?

 

[LiteralGrill]

Can we stay on topic?

The best thing to do is just accept that this is not just one community.

Trying to get everyone "together" is basically just blind preaching for the hope of conversion, everyone has different interests, and it's best to just accept it, not everyone has to be best pals with eachother as long as there's no blind hate inbetween.

Basically, as long as no side keeps attacking the other side and putting effort into bringing others into their side to the point of insanity, then there can perfectly be multiple sides coexisting in harmony and ****. sometimes, respecting others is better than trying to get everyone to be BFFs.

I like what you said here. It's odd that we're trying to force everyone together. We'll have to share venues more then likely, there's no way around it. But what will diffuse the tension at those events and on our forums to keep us separated within reason? I don't want to see no PM player ever on a Smash 64 board for example, I'd just like to see it when we mingle we get along.

 

[Shiliski]

We're a community that has a lot of competitive players, and the community revolves around a competitive game.

Competition doesn't lend itself to unity or peaceful coexistence. Competition lends itself to fighting (or arguing), division into "sides" and pretty much anything that isn't unity. Some players are mature enough to respectfully debate instead of shamelessly flame, but even that is still, well, division.

Thing is, I don't see this as a problem. If people here didn't like it then they wouldn't keep coming back. This community isn't anywhere near what I'd consider toxic, just... abrasive, and to be honest a bit of competition between people who play a competitive game isn't really unhealthy or wrong.

 

[NoiseHERO]

We're a community that has a lot of competitive players, and the community revolves around a competitive game.

Competition doesn't lend itself to unity or peaceful coexistence. Competition lends itself to fighting (or arguing), division into "sides" and pretty much anything that isn't unity. Some players are mature enough to respectfully debate instead of shamelessly flame, but even that is still, well, division.

Thing is, I don't see this as a problem. If people here didn't like it then they wouldn't keep coming back. This community isn't anywhere near what I'd consider toxic, just... abrasive, and to be honest a bit of competition between people who play a competitive game isn't really unhealthy or wrong.

This, it's HUMAN NATURE!!

This place is literally called smashboards.

But if you ask me, other than a few strawmen, and probably thanks to a lot of active mods. these forums seem kind of calm compared to the overly emotional bat****tery I've seen elsewhere. So I think people handle their disagreements totally fine here. Or at least it could be much pathetically worse. Or at least, it doesn't really seem like people come here to vent everything that's wrong with them that they've had bottle up in their anexiety bottles that open in seconds once they're connected to the internet.

But I haven't seen the worst yet. I don't think.

 

[Jerm]

My hope is that Smash 4 will be satisfying for every single sub section of our community. So basically in one way or another it will appeal to the 64 guys, melee guys, brawl guys, and even the project m kids. That way even tho melee and brawl kids may butt heads when it comes to those respective games they could at least come together and agree that Smash 4 is at least amazing.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

It's true that asking everyone to play the same game is a pipe dream. The key idea is respect and mutual cooperation as is mutually beneficial. Let me use something like EVO as an example:

At EVO, many fighting games are played, and most players will not play very many of the offered games. However, almost universally, everyone *respects* what the others are doing, and they all work together to support the event as a whole as it mutually benefits every aspect of the community. That is, the Street Fighter players might not play Tekken, but they treat the Tekken community with respect and do not support EVO any less for including Tekken. The Tekken players might not play Street Fighter, but they treat the Street Fighter community with respect and do not support EVO any less for including Street Fighter. Neither side is resentful of the relative standing of their game versus the other in such a way as to tear the other down as a tactic to improve their relative lot; every party simply worries about the base growth of their own game instead of the relative standings.

Consider how this can and should apply to smash. No individual player has to like any individual game, but every player is expected to respect the community for each game and to support any event that promotes their own game even as it may be benefitting other games as well. Melee vs Brawl was such a problem because this didn't happen; a lot of the most vocal pro-Melee people did not view the Brawl community as worthy of respect (saying things like "Brawl takes no skill" is inherently disrespectful to the Brawl community since you're asserting very plainly that what they do is not skillful or competitive), and there was a concerted effort by those people to marginalize Brawl instead of to promote Melee.

Honestly that ship has sailed and Brawl is probably goign to completely die within the year which to me is pretty sad, but going forward, we just can't let that happen with smash 4. To be honest, this is just a case of allowing bad behavior to flourish; reasonable human beings simply don't act this way because, rationally, it's in everyone's best interests to get along and grow together. On a forum like these, people who just can't understand the proper way to be act even after a little nudging should just be banned, and if you happen to run into one of the rare people who is so brazen as to act like a disrespectful fool in person, don't reward them for it. That is pretty much the status quo now; stupid posts designed to stir animosity draw moderation quite effectively, and it's pretty counter to tournament culture in general to trash on a game that is an event at said tournament (at absolute best, you look like a really sore loser). We just weren't ready for this to happen on the scale it did with Brawl and it went too far before our greater sensibilities kicked in, but we learned a lot as a community to the point that I trust we can prevent such a spiral from occurring with smash 4 or any new game.

 

[Silverjay323]

The community will probably never unite" because all 4 for installments, "despite sharing the name "Smash Bros." , are very different and appeal to different tastes. Competitive Smash is said to be all about adaptation, ironically the community quite the opposite. Many have their definitive vision of a Smash game in terms of game mechanics, and that's fine but since there is no universal game engine for smash people will choose the one they prefer. Those who fluctuate throughout the games are satisfied with the new content and experience. Competitive players will desire the fast paced advanced gameplay and also want the new content so they "complain" or in most cases, vocally underermine or write off the game, which causes the "rift" between installments. As long as the game changes while the community refuses to the community will divide again and again. :/

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Greetings, I hail from the kingdom of Dota 2 Community. There is much turmoil in our land, and we suffer from a great toxic plague. Please do not fret over your minor squabbles, for there are those far worse off than yourselves.

 

[Shiliski]

Greetings, I hail from the kingdom of Dota 2 Community. There is much turmoil in our land, and we suffer from a great toxic plague. Please do not fret over your minor squabbles, for there are those far worse off than yourselves.

Oh god I forgot about communities like DotA 2. LoL and WoW are pretty bad too, but even then I wouldn't say that they were the worst.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I hail from the Miiverse and McLeodGaming Super Smash Bros. communities, and I can safely say that the Super Smash Bros. fandom is the most actively and sadistically toxic that I've ever seen outside of our little pocket here.

 

[NoiseHERO]

No really doe I'ma need an example of how bad it gets.

It's not because I feed on a hatred or drama or anything.

The most I've ever really seen are misunderstandings from hotblooded passion blocking people's reading ability. People getting defensive over how they prefer their gameplay.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Best case scenario:
-Brawl dies a quiet death and never resurfaces once SSB4 takes its place as the newest Smash game.
-The Melee scene merges into Project M, and the definitive competitive Smash game is born.
-SSB64 is occasionally hosted as a side event, but repudiated as a scene in and of its self.

At this point, two groups are formed. We can make an even cleaner divide by advertising SSB4 as the gateway into competitive Smash while pushing Project M as the definitive title.

 

[mimgrim]

I hail from the Miiverse and McLeodGaming Super Smash Bros. communities, and I can safely say that the Super Smash Bros. fandom is the most actively and sadistically toxic that I've ever seen outside of our little pocket here.

And I hail from the ravages of the TCG Yugioh comunity. Our land is filled with much ego, bickering, hatred, shove it in your face Bronies, butthurts, and toxicness, thrice as much seen in the Smash community. Trust me, the Smash community has it off easy.

 

[Pyra]

I prefer to be on this website than socialize with the competitive Smash players on my campus.

Why?

Well: Sure, Smashboards gets into petty arguments about what video game they can be more at peace to religiously play (And you guys tend to get in ultimately pointless "discussions" about it, see page 2), but they aren't wholly bad people (for the most part). People I know in person (who aren't part of here) are just huge assholes. They want more people to join their "Smash Organization" but they ridicule you if you can't wavedash (lol) or stand up to the "good" people, and they'll just straight up take your spot if you were playing already if they're one of the "better" people at the game. They also hog the one big TV in our little student hang-out building constantly so other people who want to use it can't, and when someone beats them to it, they ***** and moan about it constantly.

tl;dr: Smashboards houses probably the most mature and accepting people in the Smash community I have ever seen.

 

[ChikoLad]

Here's an amazing idea:

Let's stop LARPing.

Let's stop pretending the games are countries.
Let's stop pretending the players are soldiers fighting wars for those countries.

Let's take these games for what they are - games. If you don't like one, don't play it. You are free to express your opinion about said game, but do so with respect and composure. If someone is too outspoken, they are ignored. If they resort to spamming or flaming particular users, welp, moderators, you have your position for a reason.

 

[D-idara]

Best case scenario:
-Brawl dies a quiet death and never resurfaces once SSB4 takes its place as the newest Smash game.
-The Melee scene merges into Project M, and the definitive competitive Smash game is born.
-SSB64 is occasionally hosted as a side event, but repudiated as a scene in and of its self.

At this point, two groups are formed. We can make an even cleaner divide by advertising SSB4 as the gateway into competitive Smash while pushing Project M as the definitive title.

So best case scenario: Smash 4 becomes an 'entry-level' Smash? Nope.
Best case scenario: All 5 Smash games continue to be played, with Smash 4 (Best Smash game) and Project M (Better version of both Melee and Brawl) being the main events.

 

[TheDMonroeShow]

So best case scenario: Smash 4 becomes an 'entry-level' Smash? Nope.
Best case scenario: All 5 Smash games continue to be played, with Smash 4 (Best Smash game) and Project M (Better version of both Melee and Brawl) being the main events.

How can you say a game that isn't even released yet is the best version? Listen I'm hopeful for smash 4 too but that's being really unrealistic.

Rhu's outcome is honestly the most likely and realistic one.

Edit: did not realize he said best case senario, I apologize.

 

[Dracometeor]

How can you say a game that isn't even released yet is the best version? Listen I'm hopeful for smash 4 too but that's being really unrealistic.

Rhu's outcome is honestly the most likely and realistic one.

He said best case scenario. He didn't say he thought it would be the best.

I hope Sm4sh can be competitive and be hosted alongside the ever evolving Project M. It's not too much to ask for right?

 

[NoiseHERO]

ain't melee still kinda fun tho?

just mod it to have megaman and a few extra stages in it <.>

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

DISCLAIMER: I know that most Melee players aren't like this. The following post is about a subset of players.

PM will never replace Melee. There are a surprising number of Melee players who dislike Project M because "the recoveries are too stronk" or my personal favourite, "the game is too janky". It's kind of ironic, since as of my understanding, PM was made with Melee players in mind.

Then there's the whole dilemma of Melee players who don't take PM seriously and just enter with Marth/Fox to give themselves something to do whilst they wait for their match, and the people on every PM stream who post "when's Melee? PM sucks" and "I came for Melee. What the heck is this garbage?".

People like Melee because it's Melee. People like Project M because it is it's own thing, not a straightup Melee clone.

 

[SmashChu]

TLDR; What does it take to finally stop all of our petty squabbles, for us to all be civil with each other, and actually come together as a community?

Kill Melee.

I will discuss this more, but if the community is to move on, Melee needs to kicked to the curve.

 

[Saikyoshi]

And thus, this thread has now officially done the exact opposite of its intent.

 

[Renji64]

Give me a game that doesn't suck and with movement options combos and less lag i'm good. Smash community doesn't have to be united it will never willl be but people should be honest and voice their opinions keep it real.

 

[---]

If you disagree with someone's opinion please keep it civil. We are keeping a close eye on this thread and will lock it the second a flame war starts up.

 

[pickle962]

Kill Melee.

I will discuss this more, but if the community is to move on, Melee needs to kicked to the curve.

Hate to break it to ya dude, but Melee or even Project M (basically melee 2.0) will still be around even after Smash 4 releases. Whether it will succeed where Brawl fell flat on its bloated *** competitively speaking is unknown right now, but having played the best buy demo, if Brawl was anything like the Smash 4 demo and didn't encourage stupid crap like camping, I feel it would have lasted longer on the competitive scene and perhaps we wouldn't have needed to mod it to make it more like Melee?

Anywhom, I'm praying that Smash 4 will help mend the rift between people who cut their teeth with Brawl and want another accessible fighter where they don't feel intimidated (to this day, I cannot short hop-fast fall-l cancel to save my life in either Melee or PM) and the Melee/Project M crowd who were disgusted by how much of an insult Brawl was to them competitively and are on the fence about Smash 4 right now by being both newbie friendly, but also offering enough competitive depth that will appeal to the competitive community so that they won't toss it aside after barely a few months to a year.

 

[SmashChu]

If you disagree with someone's opinion please keep it civil. We are keeping a close eye on this thread and will lock it the second a flame war starts up.

Except you need to actually facilitate discussion. Nothing is going on in this thread right now so why was this post made in the first place.

Look, this is an important topic and discussions shouldn't be neutered by hyper sensitive mods. We shouldn't shut down a thread (or even threaten too) because someone got upset that someone else disagreed with their opinion. Words get flung but you need to let discussion take place.

Best case scenario:
-Brawl dies a quiet death and never resurfaces once SSB4 takes its place as the newest Smash game.
-The Melee scene merges into Project M, and the definitive competitive Smash game is born.
-SSB64 is occasionally hosted as a side event, but repudiated as a scene in and of its self.

At this point, two groups are formed. We can make an even cleaner divide by advertising SSB4 as the gateway into competitive Smash while pushing Project M as the definitive title.

The definative title should be Smash 4. It doesn't make sense to have one game be a gateway for the mod that isn't even the same. Again, Melee needs to go the way of the dodo. You don't see SF3 at CEO or EVO. You see SF4 and that is what is displayed.

Hate to break it to ya dude, but Melee or even Project M (basically melee 2.0) will still be around even after Smash 4 releases. Whether it will succeed where Brawl fell flat on its bloated *** competitively speaking is unknown right now, but having played the best buy demo, if Brawl was anything like the Smash 4 demo and didn't encourage stupid crap like camping, I feel it would have lasted longer on the competitive scene and perhaps we wouldn't have needed to mod it to make it more like Melee?

This is the mindset that needs to die and is holding the community back. Who cares what one is more competitive. Fact is, you play the new one. It's different, and different isn't bad. We've seen that Brawl obviously works in the multiple tournaments it has done. It worked as a competitive game, but was stunted by a community who wasn't willing to try new things. Hell, the game isn't even out yet and people are complaining how "It's not Melee." Of course it aint Melee. It's different. It's new. And we need to give it a fair chance. It deserves the treatment Brawl should have gotten. Melee's great and all, but it's time has come and the community needs to stop living in the past.

 

[Renji64]

Except you need to actually facilitate discussion. Nothing is going on in this thread right now so why was this post made in the first place.

Look, this is an important topic and discussions shouldn't be neutered by hyper sensitive mods. We shouldn't shut down a thread (or even threaten too) because someone got upset that someone else disagreed with their opinion. Words get flung but you need to let discussion take place.

The definative title should be Smash 4. It doesn't make sense to have one game be a gateway for the mod that isn't even the same. Again, Melee needs to go the way of the dodo. You don't see SF3 at CEO or EVO. You see SF4 and that is what is displayed.

Melee doesn't need to go anywhere brawl isn't fun to watch or play. Smash still needs to be enjoyable to viewers as well. The way smash 4 is shaping up that remains to be seen.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Kill Melee.

I will discuss this more, but if the community is to move on, Melee needs to kicked to the curve.

Come on man, be reasonable. I don't want to turn this into a Melee/Project M vs. Brawl/Smash 4 debate, but I will say that when a game dramatically shifts its focus on the complete opposite demographic there will naturally be a divide. Far as I'm concerned that's fine, the casuals can play their game while we play our game. A lot of us are disappointed that we'll probably never see a Smash game that we deem at the level of Melee, and naturally that sparks a lot of heated debates, but for the most part I'd say we're respectful to some degree. Our community is fine.

Long live Melee