OU Lead Evaluation

[Rumikun]

We should probably assess the current popular leads against one another. Here are some common ones:

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Pressure, Jolly
4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Taunt

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Levitate, Naive
4 Att / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Stealth Rock
Explosion
Fire Blast
Taunt

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Blaze, Naive
4 Att / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Fake Out
Stealth Rock
Close Combat
Overheat

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Serene Grace, Jolly
4 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
Stealth Rock
Iron Head
U-turn
Trick

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Clear Body, Adamant
252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe
Stealth Rock
Bullet Punch
Earthquake
Explosion

Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent, Relaxed
252 HP / 4 Att / 252 Def
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Ice Beam
Protect

After these 6, there seems to be a noticeable gap in usage for both of the recent statistics lists. I'd like for this topic to be a generalized discussion topic in which potential lead options are either optimized for the metagame or work to take advantage of the metagame.

As usual, I personally prefer Infernape over the others, but Infernape is also a poor choice against Swampert and Hippowdon at the very least. Thoughts?

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

I'm surprised to see Swampert on their. I feel like Azelf should've kicked him off because she seems to shut him down when head-to-head. Aerodactyl is a good for one move pokemon, I think hes a worse suicide lead than Froslass.

 

[UltiMario]

IMO, on Metagross it's better to lose those defense points and dump them into Attack and Speed. You don't need them and it allows you to break speed ties.

I've tested every single one of these leads but Swampert in a team, and, IMO, Metagross is the best lead in the game. He shuts down a lot and is not easily shut down himself. He can rid of every lead in the game and shuffles about two he can kill depending on if he carries Meteor Mash or EQ. Bullet Punch's priority and the devastating power of Explosion makes Metagross an amazing lead to get Rocks up with, rid of the opposing side, and Blow up on or do good damage to whatever comes in after.

 

[Wave⁂]

Lead Machamp is all the rage nowadays.

Machamp @ Lum Berry
No Guard / Adamant
232 HP/248 Atk/12 Spd/16 SDef
Dynamicpunch
Bullet Punch
Payback
Stone Edge / Ice Punch

Aerodactyl get up their Stealth Rocks, and you kill with Bullet Punch. You lose.
You can usually survive 0 / 0 neutral nature Azelf's STAB Psychic, and you OHKO with Payback and Bullet Punch.
Swampert and Metagross are confused and annoyed.
Roserade and Smeargle **** their pants.
Infernape gets up Stealth Rock, you lose.
Dragonite is Stone Edged or Ice Punched.
Gliscor is Ice Punched. If you have it.

 

[ss118]

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Clear Body: Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Meteor Mash/ Zen Headbutt
Earthquake
Explosion
Bullet Punch

Easily the best lead in the game: if you don't mind ties by randomly exploding on some pokes.

 

[Gates]

Smogon had a good article on this recently.
http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue8/leads

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Clear Body: Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Meteor Mash/ Zen Headbutt
Earthquake
Explosion
Bullet Punch

Easily the best lead in the game: if you don't mind ties by randomly exploding on some pokes.

How do you set up rocks?

 

[Circa]

You let someone else on the team do it. Duh.

And don't start anything about how setting up Rocks at the beginning of the match is better, because I find that it's hardly true.

It takes Metagross' awesomeness as an anti-lead and Stealth Rock user and drops the latter for the sake of *****in' momentum.

 

[Gates]

It's not so much that you need to set up rocks early, it's that Stealth Rock can be a dead move on a pokemon that isn't your lead.

I gotta say though, I like that more than the traditional Metagross lead.

 

[Rumikun]

I actually agree that dropping excess defenses from Metagross is the ideal play, I simply copied smogon for a reference. I did the same for Jirachi, but dropping Jirachi's defenses is more obvious I think.

 

[Player-4]

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Clear Body: Jolly
4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
Meteor Mash/ Zen Headbutt
Earthquake
Explosion
Bullet Punch

Easily the best lead in the game: if you don't mind ties by randomly exploding on some pokes.

Horrible... I have to best Metagross lead, but I'd rather keep it secret

How do you set up rocks?

LOL srsly.

 

[Wave⁂]

Metagross gets Grass Knot.

 

[Pink Reaper]

People who waste first turn on rocks are ********.

Have fun losing your lead while dealing no damage and allowing me to see more of your team.

Also art, why Jolly on Meta? It's not going to outspeed anything, not even Lead Heatran with the extra speed.

 

[UltiMario]

It's going to outspeed my LeadTar with Jolly, that's what.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Which still loses anyways LOL

 

[ss118]

Jolly on meta let's it beat other meta. still 2HKOs with EQ unless they run shuca..... which is almost never. Also beats Adamant Gyarados by a point.

 

[Pink Reaper]

and explodes?

 

[ss118]

Better than letting it live.

btw, this is why no SR is awesome:

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Soul Dew Clause
Articanus sent out Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
Batofara sent out Not a cow (lvl 100 Aerodactyl ?).
Not a cow is exerting its pressure!
Not a cow used Taunt.
Metagross fell for the taunt!
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
It's super effective!
Not a cow lost 100% of its health.
Not a cow hung on using its Focus Sash!
---
Metagross used Bullet Punch.
It's super effective!
Not a cow lost 0% of its health.
Batofara's Not a cow fainted.
---
Batofara switched in Ryu (lvl 100 Salamence ?).
Ryu used Dragon Dance.
Ryu's attack was raised.
Ryu's speed was raised.
Metagross used Meteor Mash.
Ryu lost 62% of its health.
Metagross's attack was raised.
---
Metagross used Bullet Punch.
Ryu lost 38% of its health.
Batofara's Ryu fainted.
Metagross's taunt wore off!
---
Batofara switched in BOOM (lvl 100 Aggron ?).
Metagross used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
BOOM lost 100% of its health.
Batofara's BOOM fainted.
---
Batofara switched in DunDunDuuun (lvl 100 Magnezone).
Metagross used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
DunDunDuuun lost 100% of its health.
Batofara's DunDunDuuun fainted.
---
Batofara switched in Moo (lvl 100 Hippowdon ?).
Moo's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
Batofara: sigh
Metagross used Explosion.
Moo lost 100% of its health.
Batofara's Moo fainted.
Articanus's Metagross fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Articanus: **** SR

 

[Pink Reaper]

It's true.

 

[Wave⁂]

People talk about Aerodactyl beingthe best Taunt user out there, but they don't realize that Taunt leads are based on chance. If you are unlucky and your opponent decides to attack while you Taunt, sucks to be you. If you predict an attack and both leads use Stealth Rock, sucks to be you.

 

[supermarth64]

Not a cow used Taunt.
Metagross fell for the taunt!

Why was he Taunting a Metagross, Aero loses to it anyway so he might as well have got up SR.

Ryu used Dragon Dance.
Ryu's attack was raised.
Ryu's speed was raised.

Are you kidding me your Metagross had full HP is he seriously that stupid.

Also lol Aggron.

 

[Rumikun]

not everyone can be a good player.

branden I think you too a bit too much from my style.

 

[NJzFinest]

People who waste first turn on rocks are ********.

Can't tell if you're being serious or not.

Have fun losing your lead while dealing no damage

...hence the term, "suicide lead". Guaranteed SR = worth it.

and allowing me to see more of your team.

This is true, when one pokemon dies, another must come out lol.

Why was he Taunting a Metagross, Aero loses to it anyway so he might as well have got up SR.


Are you kidding me your Metagross had full HP is he seriously that stupid.

Also lol Aggron.

lmao, supermarth beat me to it.

People talk about Aerodactyl beingthe best Taunt user out there, but they don't realize that Taunt leads are based on chance. If you are unlucky and your opponent decides to attack while you Taunt, sucks to be you.

You can almost always SR the next turn anyways. It needs to be 2HKO'd.
Aero is still an awesome lead, simply for the fact it's almost always a free SR and taunt. Only Scarf and priority beats what it does. These days, people simply don't like losing a pokemon without having any damage done (ex. Gross/Tran/Swampert leads can be used later on or Azelf/Richi/Starmie can damage/cripple). Which... goes back to what Pink Reaper's post. SR is the best move, and this thing pretty much guarantees it.

Also, I think Tran and Starmie mentioned in the first post.

 

[ss118]

branden I think you took a bit too much from my style.

who are you?

 

[Player-4]

Jolly Metagross is ********. It's a waste of power. Listen, pump your EVs in atk and HP and you'll be fine. Who really gives a **** about beating another metagross with your own? Blow up on him and finish him off or just switch something that can take it out easily IE Rotom/Dusknoir.

tl:dr

Don't use Jolly Metagross. It's ****.

 

[ss118]

Have you ever tried it?

Then you can't talk ****. I was the first person to start with metagross when sleep leads were popular(I can prove this compared to PR's claim on Babiri-Tar) and I used all the HP and even Sp. defense EVs. Eventually I went with more power with max HP for bulk and as time progressed I realized the best way was max attack and speed: but with jolly you beat the top threats like gyarados by a point. You also tie with breloom.

tl:dr

Shut up

 

[Player-4]

Alright calm down. Don't get so butthurt over a game.

God**** >_>

Btw have you ever tried a Specs Skarmory? Yeah, you don't need to try it to know it's ***.

 

[ss118]

I have tried specs skarmory. Thank you.

Caught quite a bit of Magnezone's with HP Ground, allowing me to sweep with scizor.

 

[Player-4]

LOL the fact that you've actually TRIED a Specs Skarm has lost you ALL of your credibility.

 

[ss118]

if anything it makes me more awesome because I got on the leaderboard with a set that you consider useless.

And I never said it was great. LO Skarmory with Brave Bird, Spikes, Taunt, and HP Ground is MUCH better.

 

[Player-4]

It's users like you and stupid comments like these that make me embarrassed to have the Pokemon Researcher title

 

[NJzFinest]

You shouldn't expect any less from SWF Poke Center.

The cool kids go to Smogon

 

[Player-4]

I don't, but there's only so low you can go before it's just like ...wat.

 

[ss118]

To quote you:

Alright calm down. Don't get so butthurt over a game.

God**** >_>

If you wish relinquish the pokemon researcher title, do so. No one's stopping you. And instead of ad hominem fallacies, you could try actually addressing the issue at hand and come up with crazy things called arguments.

 

[Player-4]

NOTHING I said had to do with getting mad about Pokemon. It had EVERYTHING to do with your ******** comments. Get it straight. Now get back to dictionary.com so you can look up some more "smart insults".

 

[ss118]

Yes but my ******** comments have to do about the game. So wouldn't you getting mad at me for my comments is the exact same as getting mad about me because of the game?

And now I lost the game. ****.

And unlike what you are so obviously doing, I have yet to insult you a single time. I've actually only lost my cool when you so completely disregarded my Jolly Metagross set as useless without even considering the advantages for it over a regular one. If you had listed specific reasons as to why it sucked rather than just assuming it did so, we wouldn't be in this conundrum(and no, I didn't look on dictionary.com for this word or the previously mentioned ones).

Now I consider this a way to keep myself from working until either you face facts and be quiet or until a mod stops us. It's quite entertaining, to be honest. In fact, your last post was probably the only argument I've seen from you where you addressed what I said and countered it with something else rather than avoiding it and insulting me. So good job. ^^

 

[Player-4]

Lol this guy. Telling me to "shut up" and saying you're "more awesome" is, in most people's eyes, an insult. I really could care less since you're just making yourself look dumb and proving my point even more.

You still missed the point about me getting mad about the game, u mad, and I pointed out how dumb your comments were. The fact that YOU were talking about/getting mad about the game has nothing to do with me getting mad about the game so lol.

And to address your Metagross. Adamant > jolly. IDK why I'm about to tell you this, or any of you this, but LumBerry Metagross with Ice Punch, Bullet Punch, Rocks, and Explosion beats every common lead in the game save for Heatran (who really isn't that common), Metagross, and Infernape (who again isn't that common).

It demolishes lead Breloom, Roserade, Gliscor, Aerodactyl, Swampert (play this one smart), and the rare T-tar, just to name a few. Anyone dumb enough to switch Gyarados into a healthy Metagross deserves to be Exploded on. Because Gyarados will either 1. DD or 2. EQ and we all know EQ is not going to kill. BTW my Metagross can take a Fire Blast from Azelf, not to mention KO Scizor, Lucario, Magnezone, and other non-bulky steels with Explosion. It also puts a hefty dent in Metagross and Bronzong. As well as Skarm and Forretress, depending on EV spreads.

I've proved my point, so I'm done with this little quibble.

 

[ss118]

First off thanks for taking more than one line to come back.

Lol this guy. Telling me to "shut up" and saying you're "more awesome" is, in most people's eyes, an insult. I really could care less since you're just making yourself look dumb and proving my point even more.

When I said "shut up", it was an order not an insult. It could even considered a suggestion if you thought about it before you posted. And if you read my post carefully I never said I was more awesome than you: I said the fact that I use Specs Skarmory makes me more awesome. That's a compliment towards me, not an insult towards you.

You still missed the point about me getting mad about the game, u mad, and I pointed out how dumb your comments were. The fact that YOU were talking about/getting mad about the game has nothing to do with me getting mad about the game so lol.

You have done nothing yet to point out how dumb my comments are. And what are you getting mad at me over? My comments. What are they about? My original comments were about the game and how I use what you consider unorthodox sets. I got mad at you talking about the game that is pokemon. You got mad at me talking about the game that is pokemon. We are the same: so either we are both ********(which I would agree with =P), or we are both right in regards to what we got mad over.

tl:dr

Both accusations of getting mad are the exact same, except it was over the other person. Either we are both right or we are both wrong.

And to address your Metagross. Adamant > jolly.

Why? You have still failed to address this point. I beat other Metagross' 100% now, excluding Scarfed ones or ones that run max speed as well along with Shuca Berry versions and a random CH. I also tie with Breloom(and KO if they come into EQ, otherwise I can just explode[or use Zen Headbutt]) and beat Gyarados(with either explosion or zen headbutt). What is the extra power used for? This the main point you need to address if you want to prove that adamant is completely superior to Jolly.

IDK why I'm about to tell you this, or any of you this, but LumBerry Metagross with Ice Punch, Bullet Punch, Rocks, and Explosion beats every common lead in the game save for Heatran (who really isn't that common), Metagross, and Infernape (who again isn't that common).

You also lose to Azelf starters, which are the most common.

Edit: Hey I beat Infernape too!

It demolishes lead Breloom, Roserade, Gliscor, Aerodactyl, Swampert (play this one smart), and the rare T-tar, just to name a few. Anyone dumb enough to switch Gyarados into a healthy Metagross deserves to be Exploded on. Because Gyarados will either 1. DD or 2. EQ and we all know EQ is not going to kill. BTW my Metagross can take a Fire Blast from Azelf, not to mention KO Scizor, Lucario, Magnezone, and other non-bulky steels with Explosion. It also puts a hefty dent in Metagross and Bronzong. As well as Skarm and Forretress, depending on EV spreads.

Breloom and Roserade lose just because you have Lum Berry: not because of anything special to do with your attack choice or your EV spread. I could do the same thing on mine and get the same result: and I often do when the metagame turns to sleep starters(which at this point is no). I also don't see why the other pokemon matter since my metagross either-

a) does better(in the cases of Tyranitar, Azelf, Metagross, Bronzong, Forretress, and Magnezone)
b) does the exact same thing(Gyarados[and I don't even have to take the chance of a random CH], Scizor, and Skarmory)

I do admit it's interesting to see a way around Gliscor without exploding: and it would be interesting to see how bulky you made you made it to take on Lucario as easily as you say. If you want PM me the spread, or just post it here and I'll try it out.

I've proved my point-

say wha!?!

-, so I'm done with this little quibble.

Awwww OK. ='[

 

[UltiMario]

P4, you're arguing with Articanus.
Like, the best player on SWF.

Wat.

 

[Player-4]

P4, you're arguing with Articanus.
Like, the best player on SWF.

Wat.

LOL shows how good SWF is >_>

 

[ss118]

maybe if i CAPITALIZE key WORDS you would UNDERSTAND my points much more CLEARLY

Jolly > Adamant. i get to OUTSPEED stuff that i think is THREATENING, which is USEFUL when i lose most of my hp from the OPPONENT'S STARTER and i am left to face a pokemon AFTERWARDS

do u understand NOW?