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Oregon Smash Community [OSC] - Oregon's official Smash Community est. 2005
- Thread starter T0MMY
- Start date
Bart and I discussed things on AIM/in person last night - before the deadline - and came to a decision, but after reading his previous post it seems he has changed his mind.
To give the admin a voice in the rankings list, just make him/her a panelist as well as an admin. Some one might want to be an admin but not be a panelist.
Timmy, why don't we just have Oregon vote on format as well? Honestly, the format I had was way less serious and playful and interesting to look at. Your format (and I determined this after last night after I looked over it) is extremely formal and condensed.
A complete vote would be good. Maybe have people offer themselves up for positions. Cause it would be no good to vote for someone who will respond by saying "what? i don't want to be a panelist...".
Voting on a system should happen first so that the number of panelists and the format of the pr is established before the positions are doled out. Then a vote on whomever wants what position should occur.
So, it would be an epic journey to read through this many pages to find both of your formats, so why don't we get an easy list of offered formats and have a vote for a few days or something. The faster we get things done, the better, right? I would cast my vote now, but I haven't seen them both.
Lets get these up and have people speak up on which positions they want.
Voting on a system should happen first so that the number of panelists and the format of the pr is established before the positions are doled out. Then a vote on whomever wants what position should occur.
So, it would be an epic journey to read through this many pages to find both of your formats, so why don't we get an easy list of offered formats and have a vote for a few days or something. The faster we get things done, the better, right? I would cast my vote now, but I haven't seen them both.
Lets get these up and have people speak up on which positions they want.
Bart posted something like 800 times, t!mmy posted something like 2,000 times. I don't understand why you'd say he's more active. Additionally every post t!mmy makes is like a well-drafted novel.
Here are the two formats:
t!mmy's: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=124949
Bart's: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=124600
I would go with t!mmy's. Bart say's it's too formal and condensed, whereas I don't see that as a bad thing. Bart's is practically the same but not so well composed and has pictures of trees. If we're voting, I'd go with t!mmy's.
Proposed Panelists:
Cmin, Juce, Bart, t!mmy, t0mmy, Foosjr
I'd still like to see representatives from the most active regions of the state, that'd be Eugene, Corvallis, and Portland (Salem would need a rep once they get things going again).
If we're cutting down the panelists to three, I'd suggest getting a rep from each of the three regions, and it'd be easier just to group me and t!mmy together and maybe make Bart the admin, giving him a position to be more involved, the other two would be Cmin (Corvallis) and Juce or Foos (Portland). And there you have it, three Panelists and an Admin.
But, again, it depends on who wants the admin position, t!mmy, make up your mind, Bart's already made up his. If you both want the position, maybe we'll have a vote and/or a mod will appoint one of you.
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
Sorry, but I'mna have to vote for Bart's layout. It's not a problem of formality as much as a problem of not being succinct. Having read both, Timmy's is very nice, but it's convoluted, and very tl:dr.
Eggz
Smash Hero
Can I suggest that panelists be only people who have been to OOS tourneys? Going out of state for tournaments gives you a broadened perspective of the game. I'd say Bart, Timmy, Minh, and Jesse are the only panelists you need. Thats 2 from southern oregon, and 2 from northern oregon.
EDIT: I like Timmy's layout. Timmy, you should come to WA sometime, I miss you. Same with you Bart. And Tommy. And Jesse. And Minh. And MCS.
EDIT: I like Timmy's layout. Timmy, you should come to WA sometime, I miss you. Same with you Bart. And Tommy. And Jesse. And Minh. And MCS.
Tommy, administrator position is dumb. It just determines who posts and edits the thread. Timmy said he wouldn't care if I were the one to post the thread and still be a panelist.
I'm voting for my own format, and voting for the four panelists Jesse, Minh, Timmy, myself.
I'm voting for my own format, and voting for the four panelists Jesse, Minh, Timmy, myself.
Structure and content is important for the foundation of a Power Ranking. Not voting for a higher quality format because it is "too formal" would show that I'm not considering what exactly we are weighing our decisions on. Therefore, I am voting for the format I have proposed.
As I've mentioned before, the job of admin doesn't matter to me. I only care to see the PR List done with the quality it deserves. So... I abstain my vote for regional administrator.
I vote for Kirby as a panelist.
(okay, seriously now...)
As for panelists, I think Eggz had a good idea: two panelists from N-Oregon and two from S-Oregon. My votes go to Juce, Cmin and Bart. The second panelist from S-Oregon will most likely be me, but I don't think we should be voting for ourselves.
Also, it's inane to think that one identical twin will not have any influence on the other because he is not on the panel. I think we should acknowledge this and just vote for the "Twins" as one entity. If not, then I would step down as a panelist and vote for Tommy - I believe he has a better analytical understanding of players than I do, at any rate.
As I've mentioned before, the job of admin doesn't matter to me. I only care to see the PR List done with the quality it deserves. So... I abstain my vote for regional administrator.
I vote for Kirby as a panelist.
(okay, seriously now...)
As for panelists, I think Eggz had a good idea: two panelists from N-Oregon and two from S-Oregon. My votes go to Juce, Cmin and Bart. The second panelist from S-Oregon will most likely be me, but I don't think we should be voting for ourselves.
Also, it's inane to think that one identical twin will not have any influence on the other because he is not on the panel. I think we should acknowledge this and just vote for the "Twins" as one entity. If not, then I would step down as a panelist and vote for Tommy - I believe he has a better analytical understanding of players than I do, at any rate.
In regards to the admins:
t!mmy is the only one qualified, and as far as votes goes, he gets the position. However, Bart is perfectly capable of running the thread and has expressed his interest in doing so. I would suggest we have Bart as the active admin, but we have to go by the rules, make t!mmy the sponsor so we have everything legit. As sponsor, t!mmy overlooks how Bart is running everything and the two of them make our decisions with the mod so we don't see hundreds of posts from the rest of us drawing things out.
In regards to the panelists:
I like the representations of the areas. Two per region instead of North/South. That would be: Eugene - Bart & t!mmy/t0mmy, Portland - Juce & Foos, Corvallis: Cmin & Kempachi.
I am proposing regional "entities" that these people represent.
t!mmy is the only one qualified, and as far as votes goes, he gets the position. However, Bart is perfectly capable of running the thread and has expressed his interest in doing so. I would suggest we have Bart as the active admin, but we have to go by the rules, make t!mmy the sponsor so we have everything legit. As sponsor, t!mmy overlooks how Bart is running everything and the two of them make our decisions with the mod so we don't see hundreds of posts from the rest of us drawing things out.
In regards to the panelists:
I like the representations of the areas. Two per region instead of North/South. That would be: Eugene - Bart & t!mmy/t0mmy, Portland - Juce & Foos, Corvallis: Cmin & Kempachi.
I am proposing regional "entities" that these people represent.
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
I dunno, I don't think OR's scene is quite big enough for what... 6 panelists now?
v4p
Smash Apprentice
there needs to be a representative for grants pass. I vote me.
jankerrific
Smash Journeyman
4 panelists is the most i think we would ever need... thats like 1/5 or active smashers and all 4 of them are top 10 on pr lol.
i like 2 soregon and 2 noregon. it makes it easier to monitor progress for players in the area, and in big tournaments see how they measure up against other people. corvalis scene is dead lately and minh spends half his time in portland anyways, so he would just be pdx.
once again bart minh timmy and jesse for panelists. who cares about admin, either format will work.
i like 2 soregon and 2 noregon. it makes it easier to monitor progress for players in the area, and in big tournaments see how they measure up against other people. corvalis scene is dead lately and minh spends half his time in portland anyways, so he would just be pdx.
once again bart minh timmy and jesse for panelists. who cares about admin, either format will work.
I like Bart's format because it matches the more causal mentality of the boards in general. Being causal while doing something serious can give better results (see Intel Corporation, its all causal, all the time. I can go to work in the clothes i wear to tournaments!)
That aside, I'm also voting for him as admin because of his initiative. He came to me personally to get endorsement, one on one.
As for panelists: cmin, juce and tommy (with timmy? the whole treating them as one entity thing might work).
I look forward to this getting done soon!
~Kenpachi
Edit - I've been reading over everything, and it seems like Timmy and Bart are being voted on as panelists despite the fact that one will be the admin too... so, given the trend, I will also vote for Bart as my 4th panelist vote.
That aside, I'm also voting for him as admin because of his initiative. He came to me personally to get endorsement, one on one.
As for panelists: cmin, juce and tommy (with timmy? the whole treating them as one entity thing might work).
I look forward to this getting done soon!
~Kenpachi
Edit - I've been reading over everything, and it seems like Timmy and Bart are being voted on as panelists despite the fact that one will be the admin too... so, given the trend, I will also vote for Bart as my 4th panelist vote.
The admin makes the updates, it's not about who cares about it. Apparently we need one.
Just to note, we do not have six panelists, we are proposing these panelists to the mod who determines them (that's what t!mmy told me).
If Grants Pass/Ashland had a bigger scene I would sponsor you, Andy. But I'd rather just group it in with the Eugene region.
As far as votes goes, it looks like this:
Admin: t!mmy
Panelists: Juce, Balloon, t0mmy, t!mmy, Cmin, Foosjr
Format: Bart's format
Neal and/or Silentwolf should be told this is what the majority of the community wants.
PS: Eugene Weekly tourney is starting when Ronny gets here. For those of you not here, you're missing out on a small tourney with a large payout ($30 total). Hope you can make it.
wth@ "regional entities"
Timmy, the idea that you and Tommy are one regional entity just because you are twins is absurd. I never doubted that Tommy might have influence over you; it's a matter of who takes part in the discussion. Of course other people may have influence over our ideas of who is better and such. That's not being argued.
Again, me Jesse Minh Timmy, my format.
Edit: Tommy, pretty sure the "majority" of the community only wants the four panelists who have been the idea all along. It would be wrong to tell them the six that you just said they should be told.
Edit 2:
Oh and one more thing... I STILL don't understand what an "administrator" would do except for edit the thread and ****, which means I definitely don't understand how one could be much more qualified than another...
Hey, why don't we just change nothing in the original thread except add Timmy to the list of panelists? Then Kenpachi can remain the sponsor and be even more involved!
Timmy, the idea that you and Tommy are one regional entity just because you are twins is absurd. I never doubted that Tommy might have influence over you; it's a matter of who takes part in the discussion. Of course other people may have influence over our ideas of who is better and such. That's not being argued.
Again, me Jesse Minh Timmy, my format.
Edit: Tommy, pretty sure the "majority" of the community only wants the four panelists who have been the idea all along. It would be wrong to tell them the six that you just said they should be told.
Edit 2:
XD This sounds exactly how the original PR thread was, except replacing Kenpachi with Timmy who was qualified as well. Just thought I'd point out how stupid all of this has been... and for what? The inclusion of Timmy which we all wanted in the first place?
Oh and one more thing... I STILL don't understand what an "administrator" would do except for edit the thread and ****, which means I definitely don't understand how one could be much more qualified than another...
Hey, why don't we just change nothing in the original thread except add Timmy to the list of panelists? Then Kenpachi can remain the sponsor and be even more involved!
So, here are all of the votes as of post number 4325 (the one with everything laid out in plain sight), here is whats up: (and i read everything TWICE, counting every time someone actually voted...)
Format:
Barts format is winning, 4 to 1
Panelists:
It looks like the idea of having four panelists is more favored, voted on 5 times to 1 (a suggestion for 6). I will break down who was voted for and how many times.
cmin - 6
bart - 6
timmy - 5 <a hybrid position for timmy and tommy (suggested 2 times) is included>
tommy - 3
Juce - 6
foos - 1
kenpachi - 1
Aside from the slight disbelief that I was voted on... this seemed expected. If I pull the four mosted-voted candidates, then we get our four panelists:
cmin
bart
juce
timmy <possible hybred with tommy>
I don't quite know how the hybrid thing will work, but its been suggested twice.
AS FOR THE ADMINISTRATOR...
By my read, there have only been TWO definitive votes.
One for Timmy
One for Bart
I think the interchanging of timmy and I is what kinda gets bart's goat, so to speak.
I just wanted to post this to show that there is no definitive vote for either candidate BY THE COMMUNITY. And that is how this is supposed to run.
Hopefully this helps,
~Kenpachi
Format:
Barts format is winning, 4 to 1
Panelists:
It looks like the idea of having four panelists is more favored, voted on 5 times to 1 (a suggestion for 6). I will break down who was voted for and how many times.
cmin - 6
bart - 6
timmy - 5 <a hybrid position for timmy and tommy (suggested 2 times) is included>
tommy - 3
Juce - 6
foos - 1
kenpachi - 1
Aside from the slight disbelief that I was voted on... this seemed expected. If I pull the four mosted-voted candidates, then we get our four panelists:
cmin
bart
juce
timmy <possible hybred with tommy>
I don't quite know how the hybrid thing will work, but its been suggested twice.
AS FOR THE ADMINISTRATOR...
By my read, there have only been TWO definitive votes.
One for Timmy
One for Bart
The rules are stated here by Tommy, but I must note that the rules can still be made legit if I am the sponser of the tread while it is run by Bart. As shown on his thread (via the link provited in post 4325), I will support him as an admin.
I think the interchanging of timmy and I is what kinda gets bart's goat, so to speak.
I just wanted to post this to show that there is no definitive vote for either candidate BY THE COMMUNITY. And that is how this is supposed to run.
Hopefully this helps,
~Kenpachi
Kenpachi, the thing that gets my goat is the fact that the original PR thread I created had absolutely nothing wrong with it, and even Tommy, in that post, defined a thread that was my thread, almost 100 percent on.
Good job on the counting up of the votes though Kenpachi. You are badass
.
Good job on the counting up of the votes though Kenpachi. You are badass
.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
How can you guys like Bart's format more? Timmy's looks so nice with bulleted text and division bars. Seriously, at least if we are going with Bart's can we get rid of the terrible font color. The bright red blinds me, I have to highlight the text my mouse just to read the dark red text and the actual list is in gray font?!
I was one to suggest the twin entity. I wasn't actually suggesting a process by which the twins would converse and add their suggestions separately, I was just saying that it is something that should just happen. Just make Timmy the panelists and then he can put Tommy's opinions in his own words since they do essentially share the same opinion.
I was one to suggest the twin entity. I wasn't actually suggesting a process by which the twins would converse and add their suggestions separately, I was just saying that it is something that should just happen. Just make Timmy the panelists and then he can put Tommy's opinions in his own words since they do essentially share the same opinion.
there is no reason for you to explain how to bypass our 10 character limit in a post on this thread, so don't
The bright red was bright red for a reason, Duke. You made it pretty clear that you never even read it, so you wouldn't know why it was bright red xD.
But yeah, I can change the font colors pretty **** easily, although I myself liked the colors I chose. I really don't have a problem changing them though if everyone would prefer.
brdy_
Smash Lord
I recently read all of this bull**** that's gone on the past couple of weeks when I've been busy. All I have to say is: Timmy and Tommy, grow the **** up.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
I never made it clear that I never read the thread, all you said was, "you obviously didn't read it" then when I quoted the thread in my own words you just said, "oh, that obviously proves you didn't read it." You put me in a bad position, and I asked you like two pages ago what part of the thread you had plans for me to quote. But you've "made it pretty clear that you never even read my post" xD
Stop being ignorant, you can make something noticeable in more ways than making it bright red. Besides, that was one of several reasons why, I thought, your format was worse.
Stop being ignorant, you can make something noticeable in more ways than making it bright red. Besides, that was one of several reasons why, I thought, your format was worse.
wow duke are you seriously telling people how to make something better when you dont even know what it says?
then you go on to call him ignorant? wtf is going on in this thread
then you go on to call him ignorant? wtf is going on in this thread
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
I can't figure out if you are being sarcastic or not. But if you aren't, did you not even read my post? I clearly said I did read the thread. I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't skim through some of it but I definitely read the first page and read just as much as most people of what were those poorly organized long posts.
Regardless, aesthetics have nothing to do with content.
Regardless, aesthetics have nothing to do with content.
I thought it was pretty clear why it was obvious you hadn't read the thread. You kept whining about not being on the list, when at the bottom in bright red it said exactly why someone in your position wouldn't be on it.
Obviously there were other ways to make the bright red text seen. I could have put it at the beginning of the post, but instead I wanted it to be at the bottom, the reason being that I wanted to present the format as its own thing while the red disclaimer would be separate and therefore eventually be removed from the entire first post. The bright red was to get people to actually notice and read it since there was no guarantee that anybody would read it instead of just glancing at the rankings in the first place.
Enough about all that though: you like Timmy's format, so you vote for that.
Obviously there were other ways to make the bright red text seen. I could have put it at the beginning of the post, but instead I wanted it to be at the bottom, the reason being that I wanted to present the format as its own thing while the red disclaimer would be separate and therefore eventually be removed from the entire first post. The bright red was to get people to actually notice and read it since there was no guarantee that anybody would read it instead of just glancing at the rankings in the first place.
Enough about all that though: you like Timmy's format, so you vote for that.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
What the heck Bart, that is exactly what I said two pages back when you said I didn't read the thread. You are obviously the one that isn't reading.
Way to be a jerk about calling it whining, it was an honest inquiry which was supported with proof of performance. The reason why I was even "whining" about not being on it was to make a point that you shouldn't be basing the PR on just the past two tournaments. It had everything to do with the text in red, which proves that I did read it.
Nice straw man's argument by condensing my whole entire reasoning as to why Timmy's post is better to just the freaking red text. I clearly stated that it was more than that. Now I am even doubting, by the way you are handling this, your leadership in all of this (the PR).
Way to be a jerk about calling it whining, it was an honest inquiry which was supported with proof of performance. The reason why I was even "whining" about not being on it was to make a point that you shouldn't be basing the PR on just the past two tournaments. It had everything to do with the text in red, which proves that I did read it.
Nice straw man's argument by condensing my whole entire reasoning as to why Timmy's post is better to just the freaking red text. I clearly stated that it was more than that. Now I am even doubting, by the way you are handling this, your leadership in all of this (the PR).
But, Duke, I never said that we would only ever base the PR list on the two most recent tournaments, if that's what you're thinking I meant. I was saying that the list I posted specifically was based on the two most recent tournaments since we didn't have a lot of results to go by anyway.
But besides all that, we wouldn't ever want the PR list to encompass tournaments from more than half a year ago anyway, imo. Using tournaments that far back would only make the list inaccurate by allowing those who haven't attended any recent tournaments to keep their spot on the list when other players could easily have improved as much to bypass them. You can never just earn a spot on the PR and keep it, you gotta keep it up.
But I apologize for accusing you of not reading the thread on multiple occasions.
But besides all that, we wouldn't ever want the PR list to encompass tournaments from more than half a year ago anyway, imo. Using tournaments that far back would only make the list inaccurate by allowing those who haven't attended any recent tournaments to keep their spot on the list when other players could easily have improved as much to bypass them. You can never just earn a spot on the PR and keep it, you gotta keep it up.
But I apologize for accusing you of not reading the thread on multiple occasions.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
I think that it's obvious you wouldn't always base the PR on just those two tournaments. It also wasn't made clear that you guys would actually probably use tournaments from half a year ago, but not further back. You have pointed out the flaws with making a PR with only two tournaments, exclusion of people that couldn't make it to those two tournaments, but you also pointed out that the list was completely serious.
All I'm trying to say is, don't accuse me of not reading the thread and then disregard any of my opinions when there was obvious just a misunderstanding with what I had read, there's a difference.
All I'm trying to say is, don't accuse me of not reading the thread and then disregard any of my opinions when there was obvious just a misunderstanding with what I had read, there's a difference.
brdy_
Smash Lord
Okay guys, group hug!
Red.
Smash Ace
what brdy said.
arguing isn't cool IMO.
edit: the rankings are a little different then what I thought.
arguing isn't cool IMO.
edit: the rankings are a little different then what I thought.
