Omega Mode: a cop out

[PuzzlePrism]

I'm new to the competitive scene, but it seems to me there are a good amount of competitive stages? Going off what I've seen from some old tournaments I've watched, and discussions I've lurked on, it seems like:
Battlefield, Final Destination/Omega Stages, Yoshi's Island, Prism Tower, Unova Pokemon Leauge, Arena Ferox, and Tomadachi Life.

I've seen some talks about Mute City and Rainbow Road, too, but they have the whole vehicle thing which might make it not possible.
(Edited to fix formatting)

 

[CryoGX]

I play Sonic best on flat maps anyway

As for the other characters, some do benefit from platforms, others don't as much; that's the way it's been. The fact that they've taken this "half-step" at least signifies that they're trying.

Also, look at the bright side.

Now we can have a crap-ton of fun stages to play (for that bigger sector of the community that likes to play chaotically and with items) and the Omega/For Glory versions of all of the stages (for those who hate fun for those who want a more competitive experience.) . It's not the perfect way to go, but it's still good, overall. Besides, there would likely be complaints no matter what approach was taken and given what did happen, I can live with FD stages.

 

[Gidy]

Again, I'm not hating on the omega mode stages. I just don't like that they could be an excuse for not having other stages without any interference within the fight or drastic stage hazards.

Smash is amazing actually, because the game isn't actually limited to the same characters and stages in every match. Competitive gameplay is what makes it boring sometimes, especially Melee. That being said, I'm still gonna play Smash 3DS competitvely, and play casually with friends. Nice balance. And also the stages are fine. People cry about Brawl because Sakurai didn't appeal to competitive play, so he gives us competitive versions of each stage...and people still cry. Smash community for you.

I understand that the competitive gameplay is boring sometimes to you, but it's basically why Melee has survived throughout these years and why it's still even noticed. What you find boring is invigorating to many, many others.

Also, these aren't competitive versions. They are, from what I'm seeing, up to three different versions of Final Destination with a similar skin to the stage it's mimicking. Competitive versions would be the ability to toggle Yellow Devil on or off for the Megaman stage.

Final Destination is a perfect tournament legal stage.
We also got Battlefield, Yoshi's Island, Arena Ferox, Smashville, Mushroom Kingdom U, and possibly Boxing Ring and Wii Fit Studio.
Pyrosphere also seems good as of now.

Pyrosphere probably has Ridley as a boss, Mushroom Kingdom U has Nabbit, Boxing Ring has the falling lights, and Wii Fit Studio is a walk off.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

I disagree. Nothing wrong with it. They finally did this and that's something to be happy about period.

 

[Cactusblah]

There's the problem. FD is NOT BALANCED. It favors projectile users too greatly. Even though projectiles are overall nerfed and anti-projectile abilities are prevalent, the point of Omega Mode is completely rendered moot because they made a terrible choice of stage to reskin.

If they could have picked any stage to reskin, it should have been Battlefield. At least the tiny platforms on that stage lend itself to balanced approaches for all characters. But still, it would have destroyed the variety of the game if they reskin ANY stage for a competitive-focused mode.

I'm going to disagree until there is proof otherwise. Matchups between different characters should be played on both FD and Battlefield to see how the stages affect win rates. FD/Omega very well could be the most balanced stage this time. I'll play Omega stages the most regardless.

 

[LancerStaff]

Do you not see the arguments that break out over stage legality? Sakurai doesn't want anything to do with it. The FD only rule is simple and there isn't a whole neutral/counterpick list that changes, it's one stage that everybody understands.

Then there's the fact that the whole game was balanced around FD, and it shows. Only one stage was taken into account for balancing, so the balance is much more focused.

Lastly, they're not going to have you play sets online, just individual matches. Either the random stage selection will show bias to one player, or it'll always the same thing and not bias anybody.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

They made the omega mode so For Glory wouldn't be the same three or four stages every game. Now there's variety while staying balanced.

Would be nice if they had like an Alpha mode would turned every place into a battlefield version though.

 

[Putuk]

I love this excuse!
It made beautiful Magicant a reality!

 

[Beninator]

I credit Sakurai for trying. He knows very little about competitive play, and would be shocked to find out that there are more balanced stages than Final Destination, but at least he's trying. I totally feel a stage hazard/options switch would be perfect and exponentially better, but if we all ask really nicely for it, maybe next time around.

 

[WhiteCane]

I think people should learn to adapt to certain things like walk off stages for example what's so bad about them that they get banned?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I don't think that's realistic. What qualifies as a "hazard" in every stage varies greatly between each stage. That option alone would have probably required several months or so of development time by my estimation.

By your estimation? I'm not sure what that means, but I'm think that during development of the stages they could have easily set aside a version of it before they added the shifting stages and damaging elements. It would've taken even less time to do that then to design a bunch of Final Destination skins as it doesn't actually involve any more work aside from adding it onto the options.

I'm loving the demo and everything I've seen, I'm going to love this game, but even for me I recognize that this solution was a strange decision on Sakurai's part and I was really hoping that they would've learned from Battle Royale by allowing competitive-friendly precursors to the full versions. I don't think it is likely at all but I'm just going to hope they patch the game with something like this if they notice a bunch of people asking for such a mode. Until then I'll just put up with what we're given, if I'm going to enjoy the characters as design as much as I believe I'm going to, I doubt I'll care all that much in the end.

I think people should learn to adapt to certain things like walk off stages for example what's so bad about them that they get banned?

From what I know, people camp at the sides in order to try and get cheap kills given that the blast zone is now within their reach. I've no idea how much of an issue that can be but I believe that is the explanation given and even from a casual such as myself I can see the dilemma.

 

[Ragnorok_Kitty]

Smash Bros is more for casuals anyway. Even if we had tons of competitive stages would we use all of them on random or just a few? Just a few. Why bother.

 

[TurnUp]

People need to remember that, from what I've seen, the Japanese players prefer FD over any other stage in their rulesets most of the time, and so they are aiming towards their prime demographic, their country, wouldn't that make sense?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Smash Bros is more for casuals anyway. Even if we had tons of competitive stages would we use all of them on random or just a few? Just a few. Why bother.

In that regard, Sakurai did an amazing job creating stages for his target audience. Insofar as we just want to make some ridiculous memories in some ridiculous matches, we're set.

 

[WhiteCane]

From what I know, people camp at the sides in order to try and get cheap kills given that the blast zone is now within their reach. I've no idea how much of an issue that can be but I believe that is the explanation given and even from a casual such as myself I can see the dilemma.

Were these tested in each game it takes a long time to kill people off the side this game and boxing ring is huge, I don't know just think people could be more open so you ain't limited to 5/25+ stages.

Good thing about omega stages is that there are 2 types of FD: One with a pit and one with walls. That may help out characters in the long run.

 

[Renji64]

Sakurai doesn't make smash with competive play in mind. Omega mode is the only bone we shall get and for glory.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Wow.

The expectations that some people here have are borderline ridiculous.

I'm sure it's initially a tough pill to swallow, but we've had the whole brawl era to do it: these games aren't made for the competitive community. The actual market that buys the hell out of smash games is casual. It only makes sense that Sakurai designs the games for them.

This time around, he wanted to cater a tiny bit to the competitive community, but that doesn't mean he's going to straight up design stages for us. To expect him to ask "will this stage be legal" when developing stages is obnoxious.

Love the game for what it is and be grateful for the fact that we even have omega mode. Sakurai had no obligation to include it.

 

[mygamecube]

I see no issue on Omega mode or how it would be considered a cop out. Pretty welcome addiction to the Smash series if you ask me. You still have competitive stages with platforms like Arena Ferox, Yoshi's Island and Battlefield and it's not like there are tons of competitive stages with platforms in other smash games to choose from either. It just so happens Smash 3DS has waaay less to choose from.

I feel Smash Wii U will correct your concerns a bit more, but it terms of the actual addiction of Omega mode, there really is no negative to it's inclusion.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yeah, even though they put a lot more effort into balancing the characters around FD this time around, they really didn't put any effort into making legal stages. They pretty much used Omega Mode as an excuse to make the stages as wild and tournament-banned as they possibly could, which, really, will limit the competitive scene a lot more than previous games.

Why do this? Couldn't they just have made tournament legal stages instead of going out of their way to troll the competitive crowd with unusable stages?

More like a way to keep things balanced... we still have battle field and yoshi's island and others as good neutrals/CPs. This way they're able to make more fun "unusable stages" while also giving more choices to competitive players.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

I'm sorry but I knew this thread was flame bait from the moment I read the title. That being said I feel that there will be competitive stages for us to play on.

Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Battlefield
Final Destination (Including all the Omgea versions)
Lumiose City / Prism Tower (Counter Pick)
Tortimer Island (Counter Pick)

We can test out the stages before completely writing them off. Judging without sufficient testing feels like a waste of potential to me. Further more Sakurai didn't even HAVE to provide the players with this option. Some people forget that he tries not to cater to the Competitive scene but to allow the game to be accessible for EVERYONE. Again this thread feels like it was just begging for an argument to occur. If you really feel like these stages aren't appeasing to you then that's your opinion. From what I've read it just feels like "You guys are wrong and here is why" all over again.

TL:DR Give the game a chance to be tested world wide before ripping it apart. Melee didn't become what it was over night.

 

[Quillion]

I'm sorry but I knew this thread was flame bait from the moment I read the title. That being said I feel that there will be competitive stages for us to play on.

Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Battlefield
Final Destination (Including all the Omgea versions)
Lumiose City / Prism Tower (Counter Pick)
Tortimer Island (Counter Pick)

We can test out the stages before completely writing them off. Judging without sufficient testing feels like a waste of potential to me. Further more Sakurai didn't even HAVE to provide the players with this option. Some people forget that he tries not to cater to the Competitive scene but to allow the game to be accessible for EVERYONE. Again this thread feels like it was just begging for an argument to occur. If you really feel like these stages aren't appeasing to you then that's your opinion. From what I've read it just feels like "You guys are wrong and here is why" all over again.

TL:DR Give the game a chance to be tested world wide before ripping it apart. Melee didn't become what it was over night.

It seems people are forgetting that FD isn't balanced because of projectile favoring.

 

[LancerStaff]

It seems people are forgetting that FD isn't balanced because of projectile favoring.

Because it's less "projectile favoring" and more "only stage where projectiles are useful."

 

[RogerWazup007]

I like this because of how many options for tournament play there are but wish some included platforms.

 

[PizzaGuy]

I would have preferred if some Omega stages were the same stage, without obstacles. Magicant, Tortimer's Island (I count the fruit, and possibly the boat as obstacles), WarioWare, and Pac-Maze come to mind. That way we can have some more variety among the "serious" stages, much like Battlefield.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I agree with you OP, but I think Yoshi's Island is quite a good neutral stage. I do wish there was one more stage like a Dreamland 64 or a Fountain of Dreams or smashville, it would be so helpful for the variety and balance. I also wish Omega mode just took out the "obstacles" and left everything else the same for stages like magicant. It's literally a code they can program in 10 minutes.

 

[xTeru]

I agree. Why couldn't we have half whacky stages and half skill based stages? Or turn off stage hazards? Whacky stages are fine, but when I want to get serious 3 stages for that type of play is worse than Melee.

And by the looks of it, the Wii U version is going down the same way.

Wii U version looks a lot better stage wise, Smashville, Town and City,Pilot wings, FD, Battlefield and Halberd all look viable to me and if the tower of smash leak is real we will get melees yoshis island too. The Kalos pokemon league and the orbital gate stages might be good too, we don't really know enough about them yet

 

[Mobes]

Although I wouldn't agree it's the perfect solution for the problem of stages not being viable for competative play, and I might agree with the sentiment of calling it a cop out to the problem, I'd consider it a good enough solution to the problem.

My ideal solution would be where OMEGA versions of maps featured an approaximation of the stage's platform layout without most common things that make maps not viable. My assumption would be that the dev-team decided to have differences between OMEGA and normal versions more cut and dry.

I'm not aware about if Smash 3DS still has a "list of maps which RANDOM picks from" feature, and how extensive it is, if it still exist, but for my money, I'm happy that most of the level / music assets gets their chance via RANDOM OMEGA map selection. That was my main point of greif whilst playing competatively with friends.

 

[Cr0wbaR]

Let me actually lay out this argument the way I see it:

Omega Mode is nice. It makes all the stages FD, and it's nice to not have to listen to the same theme every time we play. But the issue is, it's ONLY FD.

Whether you play competitively or not, FD is not a fair stage in all regards. It does heavily favor ranged characters. With the buff to dodging, and the lack of platforms, it's easy to stand on one side of the stage and use projectiles to force your opponent to approach a certain way. And with the lack of room to approach, your movement is easily telegraphed and easy to abuse. Most projectiles have been nerfed, yes, but some are still very strong, like Bowser Jr's Mecha-koopas and cannonballs.

In the competitive scene, FD is rarely played on. Ground based characters have a decent advantage compared to other characters, and with the ways picks and bans go, FD would often get banned. (I got this a lot as a Diddy player, Snake and IC players would be the same).

There should be a few platforms, even if it's just three stages, (BF, SV, FD) It's enough variety to give close range characters a chance to actually get in. To those of you who aren't competitive, don't say that this is us crying about something we wanted. Smash is beautiful hybrid of being fun for casual AND competitive play. So many people think competitive just means "No Items, Final Destination, Fox Only." It's not, and in fact, in Melee, Fox is considered to be at the disadvantage on FD against Marth due to the chain grab.

To the competitive people, it's not bad, it's nice to have a mode without any gimmicks, I wish there were a few platforms as well, but at least we have a mode for ourselves. It's not that it ruins competitive play, it more ruins the meta. Some characters will be ranked pretty highly just because it's on a flat stage as opposed to having platforms, and most close range characters will be lower on the tier list. Keep in mind, Japan ranked Pit like 4th best in Brawl, but they only play on 3 stages, in NA we ranked him very low. If you're having a tough time with it, it sucks, you'll just have to use characters that are better on flat stages, which sucks cus you're now more forced into playing certain characters, or we can try to make our close range work.


Just my thoughts on the matter.