Olimar's Poor Showing

WhoseReality? · Apr 30, 2008

Don't know if you checked out the thread in tactical that compiled tournament usage and wins (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954), but I was shocked at its implications that Olimar isn't frequently used and has not done well in tournaments.

Considering how active the Olimar boards are and the general agreement that Olimar is a powerful character, what does this mean for actual Olimar usage and success? Is Olimar too tough to learn for most players who are instead opting for the more straightforward MK or the tricks of Snake? Are his recovery problems so much of a deficit that even us diehards won't be able to make it deep in tourneys?

I think serious players know Olimar now and the 'edgehog at all costs' strategy works as both an easy and effective answer. Because of this people will be generally more hesitant to use Olimar. I'd hate to see him become a freak outsider character like Melee Jigglypuff or G&W. The pressure is definitely on Olimar (and us) to live up to the hype and perform well in more than just the odd college tournament.

This kind of a discussion seems particularly poignant considering the Back Room's #5 hint about a character that everyone was freaking out about and now isn't getting as much attention.

M3zm3r1z3 · Apr 30, 2008

It could just be bad olimar players.

goodoldganon · Apr 30, 2008

I don't think it is because Olimar is tough to use, because frankly he isn't that hard to use. Sure he may be harder to use then MK, but no one in this game is exceptionally tough to use like Melee.

I think it is a combination of Olimar not being a "cool" character and also the stigma that tether recoveries = garbage, despite the fact the weakness can be combated.

Dr. Hyde · Apr 30, 2008

meh let them think that, I'll win another tournament, jk I really hope to win another tournament, May 31st.

Hopefully it will get bigger. And I'll have even more trouble getting to the top.

keeper · Apr 30, 2008

So far I've gotten 9th (FB3) and 3rd (GET SOME).

Olimar is actually quite hard to use against MKs, if I do say, as they are the things that have knocked me out of a tournament each time. That and tripping (yeah I know, "No Johns," but tripping just sucks when it costs you second place).

shrinkray21 · Apr 30, 2008

WhoseReality? said:
Don't know if you checked out the thread in tactical that compiled tournament usage and wins (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954), but I was shocked at its implications that Olimar isn't frequently used and has not done well in tournaments.

Considering how active the Olimar boards are and the general agreement that Olimar is a powerful character, what does this mean for actual Olimar usage and success? Is Olimar too tough to learn for most players who are instead opting for the more straightforward MK or the tricks of Snake? Are his recovery problems so much of a deficit that even us diehards won't be able to make it deep in tourneys?

I think serious players know Olimar now and the 'edgehog at all costs' strategy works as both an easy and effective answer. Because of this people will be generally more hesitant to use Olimar. I'd hate to see him become a freak outsider character like Melee Jigglypuff or G&W. The pressure is definitely on Olimar (and us) to live up to the hype and perform well in more than just the odd college tournament.

This kind of a discussion seems particularly poignant considering the Back Room's #5 hint about a character that everyone was freaking out about and now isn't getting as much attention.

I think the character they were referring to is PT, and I think the problem with olly is that a true glitch hasn't surfaced out his recovery.

However, once the smash world realizes that olly is one of the solid counters against snake, I think that we will be fine.

P.S. - The last tourney I went to had a total of 3 olly's...me, MTKD, another guy i'd never heard of...My olly almost beat probably the best smasher in NE, easily the best DDD, MTKD won almost every match with olly but switched off and lost sets, and the random guy almost beat DarkReign's DK!!!...Olly is fantastic character, but he's hard to understand b/c no character is similar to him...the burden is on us olly players to have good showings at tourney's to rehype this.

shanus · Apr 30, 2008

Because most olimar players think that over+b and fsmash are his only moves

Seriously though, I expect given a bit of time to see olimar start placing well in more tournaments. I know for one I havent had a problem with most players expect for a select few of the top competitive smashers in the NE. It's just its pretty rare to run into a competitive/good olimar player.

Rapid_Assassin · Apr 30, 2008

Some people (like my brother) come across one thing they've never seen before in a tournament, and then get discouraged and basically switch mains mid tournament and still lose (because they never practiced their new main). Or other people use other characters too.

*Off Topic* Shanus, you're close enough to me. I need more regular opponents!

shanus · Apr 30, 2008

Heh, Emmy, I chatted with you for a bit at the last melee tourney you guys held (i think disposable heroes was the location, its been a while), but didnt get to play you then... It'll be a bit easier for me to play friendlies with peeps this summer when I have my car up here in prov, otherwise I'm limited mainly to hitching rides to the larger local tourneys..

Lemme know if you wanna do any wifi friendlies till then or whatever, although prolimar dittos are pretty confusing

shrinkray21 · Apr 30, 2008

shanus said:
Heh, Emmy, I chatted with you for a bit at the last melee tourney you guys held (i think disposable heroes was the location, its been a while), but didnt get to play you then... It'll be a bit easier for me to play friendlies with peeps this summer when I have my car up here in prov, otherwise I'm limited mainly to hitching rides to the larger local tourneys..

Lemme know if you wanna do any wifi friendlies till then or whatever, although prolimar dittos are pretty confusing

I just wish that I got to go to more than one tourney a month...living here in SD means that minimum 4 hours to get to some good competition...however, though at the tourney I just went to, there were no olly's...but no one knew how to handle mine at all...my problem is that I ran into a good yoshi that I didn't know how to handle and then lost to someone who has always given me trouble.

The point is that, expect better things in the future.

P.S. - on that forum, olly is at a b rating...not really low tier though...I always put him in middle tier or middle high b/c of the recovery.

scalpel · Apr 30, 2008

I got second place at my college tournament with Olimar, if that means anything.

Rapid_Assassin · Apr 30, 2008

shanus said:
Heh, Emmy, I chatted with you for a bit at the last melee tourney you guys held (i think disposable heroes was the location, its been a while), but didnt get to play you then... It'll be a bit easier for me to play friendlies with peeps this summer when I have my car up here in prov, otherwise I'm limited mainly to hitching rides to the larger local tourneys..

Lemme know if you wanna do any wifi friendlies till then or whatever, although prolimar dittos are pretty confusing

I play Peach against Olimar, and if you play other characters I'll play Olimar.

That's better than Olimar dittos. Get AIM, and add me.

NG_Stop · Apr 30, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxcVUqXxSs

WhoseReality? · Apr 30, 2008

That's an awesome match - but what should have been maybe an easy victory suddenly necessitated a desperate comeback after that one gimp.

I've also been thinking about all these "help vs. X" threads. We say against MK do this and this and this, but if people aren't actually able to integrate these strategies into their games then the quality of these Olimars won't improve. I guess that's not something the boards have anything to do with - it's just I never read "people told me to use this tactic against whoever, and I did, and now I'm better for it." So I wonder.

TrueRedemption · Apr 30, 2008

Olimar isn't up there on usage/wins because Echo and I have college (not to mention club ultimate, heading to nationals again =D ) which means unless you go to an awesome one that has a real community that makes hosting tournaments easy, we haven't gotten out much. But seriously that is interesting, I have no idea why Olimar would have so many trolls who don't actually go play. I don't mind it though, hes strong as is, give him the advantage of unfamiliar too and I should has some fun once i get to the tourney scene. I've honestly got nothing but practice and Natties for the first 3 weeks after exams though, hopefully there'll be one more out there =P

-True

Edit: Wow loved that match, some interesting decisions and a slightly old school play style, but done very very well. I'm curious how well he knows his lineup throughout, sometimes makes some interesting choices w/ white/purple, but honestly the best olimar video i've seen in a while. Cookie to the first one who can figure out what happened at 0:54, very start of DSF's 2nd stock, Olimar was recovering from the ledge, and seemingly does an immediate dtilt without the hit box to quickly get behind Marth. Quicker than a roll, and well all around pretty sure its not a roll but don't have a clue what it is, certainly would be useful though.

Pyronic_Star · Apr 30, 2008

well i'll be going to "critical hit 2" this weekend, so expect a high placement for olly

other than that, i won a tourny at my college.... but i was pit, and the other time i came in second place with olly.

but hopefully this saturday i'll place well.... i like to think my skills are up to par and maybe change the list a little bit

Pyronic_Star · Apr 30, 2008

i personally haven't seen to many olimar players myself. i think everyone seems to say olimar is good after they play against one... not when they play with one. it seems that its kind of a one sided thing, he's "too good" when they play against you, yet they themselves can't play olimar despite him being "cheap" as some put it. i can say that i have one one tourny at my college... however i was pit haha, the second tourny at my school i came in second using olimar... however i just started really playing him earlier that week (fast learner

) i will be going to "critical hit 2" this weekend and i'll be maining as olimar, i'll come back and tell you all the good news after i win (fairly confident.... its against my religion to lose lol) so hopefully i'll be able to help alter the rankings list post saturday

edit: srry about double post... i could have sworn it wasn't up there so i re did it... but i guess it was, my bad

Dyyne · Apr 30, 2008

Great match. To True, if i remember, somebody made a thread a while ago about how if you immediately do a recovery thing (dunno what the term is, just any button really, yaknow, to get off the edge) right after the tether recovery, then it reduces lag time, so if i had to guess, I'd say he did the forward get up thing (where the char just stands up) and did a d-tilt immediately after.

DanGR · Apr 30, 2008

off topic: I think the thing he did at :54 was just a regular roll? I looked at it a couple times to make sure I didn't see what you did. Marth shielded, so a dtilt would have hit the shield and olimar would have stopped. it was just your imagination true. (i think)

on topic:I don't have a car. My friends don't care enough to drive all the way to any tourney,( unless it's nearby) and I live in Madison, Alabama(next to huntsville). I'm a junior in highschool. Can anyone name any tournaments less than 4 hours away??? I'm stuck here to play brawl with my friends.

I'm pretty sure I could own just about anybody(not to brag or anything

), but really. I'd like to test my skill. So don't count on me anytime soon to win any tourneys.

Olimar is a great player and Idk why no-one likes him. I think it'd be funny for him to end up mid-tier. It'd make easier competition.(except sheik for me)

WhoseReality? · May 1, 2008

Yea, I'm kind of in the same boat as DanGR. Once college ends in a few weeks I'll be in Souther NH, and I'm not aware of any tournaments going on around there. I guess Boston is in shooting distance. Is there any place you guys go to find tournament listings other than this site? Whether it be big or little tournaments? I was more of a casual Melee player so I don't know all the ins and outs. Any help would be appreciated and maybe I'll see you in the draw.

shanus · May 1, 2008

Sorry Emmy I was out in boston last night, I'll hit you up on aim at some point soon

TheManaLord · May 1, 2008

Who cares what any tier list says, if you enjoy the character and do well with him then keep fighting. It's the players that define the tier lists and define what characters are good and what ones aren't. Don't give up hope on what other people say, listen to your own head and do what you want to. I personally am always going to use Olimar, I like the character and I like how he plays.

DanGR · May 1, 2008

WhoseReality? said:
Is there any place you guys go to find tournament listings other than this site? Whether it be big or little tournaments? I was more of a casual Melee player so I don't know all the ins and outs. Any help would be appreciated and maybe I'll see you in the draw.

me too

, Is it a website with listings all over the US?

Pyronic_Star · May 1, 2008

ummmmm, i kinda just go to the tournaments listing section and see if any are near me. or you can choose to look at your region.... its all under the tournament section

asob4 · May 1, 2008

i've been placing well at all the tourney's in my area. i recently placed 5th at tauntsies two. some competition was Teba, Lee Puff, BoA, Creepy Fingers, and ROFL to name a few

The Halloween Captain · Oct 28, 2008

I can't help but wonder why much of this thread is still true. Frankly, the first tier list seemed dead wrong concerning Olimar, and he should be doing better. He's a great character, and possibly one of the few that contrary to former belief, can play MK well.

Jadedlink · Oct 28, 2008

I was reading this thread and was surprised at some of the stuff being said.

Then I looked at the date.

That was a waste of my time.

Zori · Oct 28, 2008

mana cloud plays olimar?

asob4 · Oct 28, 2008

wait wait wait wait

what?
mana cloud? THE mana cloud?????

Olimarman · Oct 29, 2008

Guys, olimar's terrible placings are a GOOD THING. The fewer who use him the better. Stop winning all at once. I say we divy it up, one Olimar wins a single tourney a month. This way, Olimars placing stays bad, he doesn't become the next MK and we can bask in our glory when we win that 1 tournament every 2 years or so. In all technicality, Olimar is one of the easier characters to use, but to master him is the hard part. Just like MK, except his learning curve is non exsistant. If people see this dude winning tournaments, they might want to use him, thus adding to the vast amounts of players who don't know what an A button is.

Bottom line, stop winning, start sucking and save up for the big tourneys.

asob4 · Oct 29, 2008

uhhh yeah that's what i've been doing >_>

RichBrown · Oct 29, 2008

I'm gonna do really well at some local tournaments this weekend and next, I'm hoping to win a small 16 man tournament on Halloween (if I can ever beat my **** beloved friend Cranberry Rogue who plays a mean diddy and knows my play style way too well), and maybe take the midsized SCV tournament 2 days later (I've placed no lower than 7th outta 25-35ish at the local SCV tournaments lol)

In my past two tournaments I've taken Teba and Boa to the 3rd game and lost, immediately followed by close tough losses to one of my friends from SCV.

Typh and I have been ****** in doubles.... but I go kirby in doubles, so yeah

asob4 · Oct 29, 2008

come to the palmdale tourney ^^

RichBrown · Oct 29, 2008

I can't go to palmdale this saturday, my friend is having a birthday party which she specifically moved so me and her other best friend could show up, I'd feel terrible if I ditched that for a smash tournament, especially considering I'm going to 2 small tournaments the day before/after haha. I'll be at PBW 5 though

DADdedede · Nov 5, 2008

i thought olimar was pretty high on the rankings chart, he could be a bit higher though

Olimarman · Nov 6, 2008

He is now, unfortunately....

Personally, I believe that MK is the only thing keeping him from being at the top. Yes, Olimar's recovery is questionably one of the worst in the game, but theres still so many answers... besides, despite his recovery few "pro" olimars (no I'm not saying you suck if you get gimped) get screwed over by his recovery often enough. Even though MkvOli matchup is arguable to be even, if MK gets the boot I think the spaceman we all know and love will begin to be used by scrubs

, especially since the stupid part of the smash community only sees Oli as bad because of what people "claim" mk can do to him.

Hai Im Fearless · Nov 6, 2008

There's pretty good placing olimars in ATL north, I'm pretty sure, they just never post here.

I'm a constistant 9th and up in FL's biggest tournies.

7th at fast was pretty big, I guess.

Also, see sig.

Snail · Nov 7, 2008

Well we've been doing better lately. ^^

asob4 · Nov 7, 2008

i'm gonna play my *** off this sunday

also abuse the hell out of GnW ^^

MarkPP · Nov 7, 2008

I have some trouble with actually seeing what he does.
I cant run in 60 hz D:.

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