Olimar's advanced techniques!

[Myran]

This should be the main thread used for Olimar's ATs (Advanced Techniques). These can be either Olimar exclusives or general ATs that Olimar can capitalize on. So if you guys have any AT's that you feel should be shared, and haven't already been talked about go right ahead. Videos aren't required by any means, but they do help. Also please be very descriptive when detailing the AT.

First off I'll detail a tech that I discovered, and have labeled as the Desync Down Smash. When Olimar's Pikmin desync on the platform they will jump up from it. By dropping from the platform at the right time, and then using a Down Smash on the ground one Pikmin will slide in front of Olimar like normal, but the one that would go behind him will slide on the platform above. There are a couple ways to get the Pikmin to desync for the setup.

1. Do a quick stutter step/shuffle, and have the Pikmin desync from your movement.
2. Down Smash on the Platform, then drop down and down smash again. (Doing near the edge of the platform can make it easier)

As of now I have not been able to do it 100% of the time, but the frequency of success is increasing as I practice more. I feel like this could turn out to be a helpful tool for Olimar when covering the opponents ledge options since it coves to different areas of their ledge get up.

Below I have put a couple GIFs of the AT. I had to record it on my phone so it isn't the best, but it should show enough to help you replicate it.

I Down Smash on the platform to desync the Pikmin.

Here I do a little dashing back and forth to get a desync.

Edit: Didn't mean to make the first one so much bigger, and it won't let me change it.

Wii U differences/additions to the DDS.

First off I want to say that the setup required for this AT is different to an extent. I can't consistently get it to happen like I can in the 3ds with the current method listed. I believe this is due to a change in the Pikmin AI/engine. What I mean by this is that the "Ghostbox" that seemed to be present in the 3ds version that stored the location of the Pikmin isn't present on Wii U. This means that to do a DDS you have to be under the platform relatively quickly after doing the initial setup, because you can't really wait to down smash after dropping. What is allowing the DDS to happen on the Wii U is that when you drop under the platform some of the Pikmin will remain on the platform above you on the platform for a small time frame. When this happens a down smash will cause a DDS to happen if the proper conditions are met. (Quick note: The 3ds method does work, but I find it to be much less consistent than the new method I found.)

Now I'm sure you're wondering how to get the requirements met, from testing I have found the most reliable way to attain this is to use the down special Pikmin Order. When used while in the idle animation it will change Olimar's Pikmin lineup order, but if he remains idle while whistling it will only change the cursor over the next color's head. This means if you have a red, yellow, and blue in the order when you whistle it would make the yellow next obviously. The yellow will not immediately jump to the front of your line though it will remain in it's position of second in line while keeping properties as if it was in first. So when you drop down all the Pikmin get slightly jumbled in terms of positioning.

So far I have only been able to get this to work on platforms close to the ground. The most notable being the two side platforms of Battlefield. I have also gotten it to work on the middle platform of Battleship Halberd but only during the second phase where you're on the ship.

Below I will display some gifs showing the changes I mentioned.

This is the current method used regularly on 3ds

This is the current method I use on Wii U. You can see when I whistle the cursor above the Pikmin is change, but their position is not.

Now for something else I discovered while on Halberd. It seems that I was able to get a down smash to have both Pikmin attack on the platform above me. It was done in a similar way to the new method for DDS, but with a slight difference in requirements. From what I have seen it (keep in mind I haven't been able to consistently recreate it) it occurs when you drop below the platform, but all three Pikmin's positioning gets "jumbled" so when you down smash they attack from their current position. I'm currently trying to figure this out, but would greatly appreciate if anyone else could try to test this as well. Like I said the second phase of halberd has been the only platform where I was able to get this to occur.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'd also post this in the Character Discussion thread on the competitive discussion forum. I think this is the first really interesting thing I've seen with Olimar for Smash 4.

 

[Myran]

I'd also post this in the Character Discussion thread on the competitive discussion forum. I think this is the first really interesting thing I've seen with Olimar for Smash 4.

I might show it in some other places, but my initial thought was to show it here so the other Olimar players can discuss the AT's that he has. I'll post some more general ones that he can abuse another time.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I can't decide on if I want Pikmin to be ridiculously buggy in the Wii U game or not, haha. If it's because of them being at 30 fps, I hope at least this works in the Wii U version.

 

[Myran]

I can't decide on if I want Pikmin to be ridiculously buggy in the Wii U game or not, haha. If it's because of them being at 30 fps, I hope at least this works in the Wii U version.

In the Wii U version it looks like you can still get the ledge desyncs, but lose the random run offs that Pikmin do. That could be a good mix.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

That's what I like to hear. I'm sure there will be plenty of other buggy Pikmin tricks that end up popping up as well.

 

[Blue Banana]

Desync Down Smash

Hey, I did a bit of testing on the AT myself after I read this, and I want to talk about a few things:
- From what I tested, the first step doesn't seem to be required to do the desync. What I did is Dsmash on a platform first, then drop down and dsmash again. It worked nearly all the time I tried it.
- From the looks of it, when Olimar performs the Dsmash, the location of the 2nd Pikmin's hitbox is "saved" on the platform, something like a "ghostbox". This "ghostbox" moves around wherever Olimar goes, and the ghostbox will become the 2nd Pikmin's hitbox when Olimar performs the dsmash again. The second sentence is important because what that means is:
- The "ghostbox" can move along the length of the platform the Dsmash was executed on. On Yoshi's Island, if Olimar performs a Dsmash on one end of the platform, drops down, then moves to just under the other end of the platform, then the "ghostbox" would place the 2nd Pikmin near the edge of the platform.
- The "ghostbox" isn't just limited to the platform it started on; it can transfer between platforms. If Olimar performs a Dsmash on the top platform of Battlefield, then as long as he is under it, Olimar can perform the DDS on either of the side platforms. However, the "ghostbox" is height-reliant; performing a dsmash on a side platform doesn't allow Olimar to perform the DDS on the top platform.
- Speaking of height, it seems that no matter how high the distance between the two platforms is, Olimar should be able to do the DDS.
- If Olimar performs an Pikmin-reliant attack on lower ground an aerial Pikmin-reliant attack jumping from the lower ground, Side B, or Down B, then Olimar can't do the DDS. What seems to happen is that when Olimar does the attack, the 2nd Pikmin in line automatically transports to the upper platform and will drop down to join Olimar's line again, using up the "ghostbox."
- Olimar can perform any of his moves in the air or on platforms above some ground and still be able to the DDS on lower ground.
- If Olimar lands on lower ground from a platform above (say, top platform and main platform of Battlefield), Olimar can still jump on a platform between the two (like a side platform), drop down from that, then perform the DDS.
- Random desyncs from Pikmin on lower ground can mess up the DDS.

I also tried to recreate this that was posted about a week ago, but I can't seem to do it.

 

[Myran]

Hey, I did a bit of testing on the AT myself after I read this, and I want to talk about a few things:
- From what I tested, the first step doesn't seem to be required to do the desync. What I did is Dsmash on a platform first, then drop down and dsmash again. It worked nearly all the time I tried it.
- From the looks of it, when Olimar performs the Dsmash, the location of the 2nd Pikmin's hitbox is "saved" on the platform, something like a "ghostbox". This "ghostbox" moves around wherever Olimar goes, and the ghostbox will become the 2nd Pikmin's hitbox when Olimar performs the dsmash again. The second sentence is important because what that means is:
- The "ghostbox" can move along the length of the platform the Dsmash was executed on. On Yoshi's Island, if Olimar performs a Dsmash on one end of the platform, drops down, then moves to just under the other end of the platform, then the "ghostbox" would place the 2nd Pikmin near the edge of the platform.
- The "ghostbox" isn't just limited to the platform it started on; it can transfer between platforms. If Olimar performs a Dsmash on the top platform of Battlefield, then as long as he is under it, Olimar can perform the DDS on either of the side platforms. However, the "ghostbox" is height-reliant; performing a dsmash on a side platform doesn't allow Olimar to perform the DDS on the top platform.
- Speaking of height, it seems that no matter how high the distance between the two platforms is, Olimar should be able to do the DDS.
- If Olimar performs an Pikmin-reliant attack on lower ground an aerial Pikmin-reliant attack jumping from the lower ground, Side B, or Down B, then Olimar can't do the DDS. What seems to happen is that when Olimar does the attack, the 2nd Pikmin in line automatically transports to the upper platform and will drop down to join Olimar's line again, using up the "ghostbox."
- Olimar can perform any of his moves in the air or on platforms above some ground and still be able to the DDS on lower ground.
- If Olimar lands on lower ground from a platform above (say, top platform and main platform of Battlefield), Olimar can still jump on a platform between the two (like a side platform), drop down from that, then perform the DDS.
- Random desyncs from Pikmin on lower ground can mess up the DDS.

I also tried to recreate this that was posted about a week ago, but I can't seem to do it.

Very interesting. I knew that it was able to be done on the top Platform of BF and on YI. I wonder though why having the Pikmin desync with a dash dance lets you do it. Do you think that would be storing the Pikmin location as well?

In regards to the video you linked I think it is similar to how a DDS is performed. The Pikmin will desync locking either the ghostbox there or there actual position while retain command in the line. I just don't think anyone has found a consistent way to do it for other moves than the DDS.

 

[Blue Banana]

Very interesting. I knew that it was able to be done on the top Platform of BF and on YI. I wonder though why having the Pikmin desync with a dash dance lets you do it. Do you think that would be storing the Pikmin location as well?

In regards to the video you linked I think it is similar to how a DDS is performed. The Pikmin will desync locking either the ghostbox there or there actual position while retain command in the line. I just don't think anyone has found a consistent way to do it for other moves than the DDS.

I think the reason why doing a dash dance near a ledge allows Olimar to do the DDS is because what you just said: it desyncs them.

I tried out several attacks--Fsmash, Usmash, Side B, Down B (even without calling a stray Pikmin back), grab, Fair--basically any move that involves Pikmin, and I was able to do the DDS. I think the reason is that performing a Pikmin attack desyncs it from Olimar's line, even if for only an instant. This is apparent in Side B and Fsmash, but for something like an aerial, I remember from a For Glory match with a Peach that she did a Bair on me just as I pulled out a Fair. The Pikmin died from the Bair as well, and the only way for a Pikmin to take damage like that is that the Pikmin is desynced from Olimar's line. The DDS even applies to newly plucked Pikmin on a platform, as well as the starting red, yellow, and blue Pikmin at the beginning of a match because they are also plucked out from the ground. Pikmin plucked from the ground are still considered "desynced" from Olimar's line until they naturally come to him or are called to by Down B. Up B even works; Pikmin held by Olimar during flight can take damage, a trait Pikmin only display while being desynced.

I really hope there are some other reliable techniques that can be developed from desynchronization, such as that ledge desync Fsamsh, because there seems to be potential hidden under this weird mechanic.

 

[Myran]

I've found out how to do the DDS on the ledge of Battlefield. So far I've gotten one Pikmin to slide on the stage like normal, while getting a ghostbox to store itself right in front of the ledge like in the video that you linked Blue Banana. The Pikmin will slide across the the air as well. I even managed to get both Pikmin of the dsmash to be there going in the 2 directions. Still working on figuring it all out, but I'll drop a post soon once I get more concrete info.

Edit: Can't seem to get it on any other stages except Battlefield. Still trying though.

 

[Seleir]

@ Myran when you can, explain me on skype ok?

 

[N7Kopper]

I can't decide on if I want Pikmin to be ridiculously buggy in the Wii U game or not, haha. If it's because of them being at 30 fps, I hope at least this works in the Wii U version.

It really seems that if the whole game were at 30 FPS, it'd have solved a lot of problems.
Remove the 3D in-battle from Not-New 3DS on top of that, and we could have had Ice Climbers, CPP, and even Assist Trophies and Pikmin that don't animate at 10 FPS.

But then you'd have the issue of timing differences between Wii U and 3DS, and there's a significant chance that a lower FPS would actually be humanly noticable on a HDTV. Really, it was a tough call all around - and it kind of shows why the game's current state wouldn't support Ice Climbers. Random desyncs are no fun, and outright stopped me playing Olimar on 3DS.

 

[Indexxical!]

One technique I discovered: Pluck & Roll!

Olimar/Alph can roll immediately after plucking a pikmin. You can also insta-pluck as you fall off a ledge.

 

[Myran]

One technique I discovered: Pluck & Roll!

Olimar/Alph can roll immediately after plucking a pikmin. You can also insta-pluck as you fall off a ledge.

They can do anything after plucking it's called Pluck Cancelling. Also it was already known that you were able to ledge cancel plucks. I suppose it is nice that you posted it here since no one else did. It's in my guide too I'm pretty sure. Finally you can't ledge cancel the Pikmin Pluck in the Wii U version, and I don't remember if they patched it out with the latest one in 3ds.

 

[Seleir]

Yeah you cant now with new patch. So pluck ledge is absent now

 

[2k6]

One technique I discovered: Pluck & Roll!

Olimar/Alph can roll immediately after plucking a pikmin. You can also insta-pluck as you fall off a ledge.

Oh great! we have the same avatar lol. I thought I already commented on this topic

EDIT: On the topic I want to try the Wii U version it seems so easy to play Olimar with c-stick. So does it still work on Wii U version?

 

[ThatManMa]

They can do anything after plucking it's called Pluck Cancelling. Also it was already known that you were able to ledge cancel plucks. I suppose it is nice that you posted it here since no one else did. It's in my guide too I'm pretty sure. Finally you can't ledge cancel the Pikmin Pluck in the Wii U version, and I don't remember if they patched it out with the latest one in 3ds.

I couldn't find the pluck cancelling in your guide. Can you explain for those of us who don't know?

 

[Myran]

I couldn't find the pluck cancelling in your guide. Can you explain for those of us who don't know?

I don't think I list it as it's own AT. Instead I just blend it into the Pikmin Pluck section. (Could be wrong I'm pretty tired atm.) Either way Pluck Cancelling is pretty much just doing something right after you pluck. You do it every time you pluck more than one Pikmin consecutively. There is an animation when Olimar plucks a Pikmin, but it can be canceled early by doing anything. For instance you can pluck a Pikmin and immediately use a smash attack or grab the moment you pluck them before they fly all the way up for their little animation thing. So to sum it up it's just cancelling Olimar's pluck animation by doing another action, and an attack can be used with said plucked Pikmin if done immediately once it's plucked so you don't have to wait for it to fly all the way up and come back down.

I think this makes sense. Like I said I'm really tired. Just let me know if it gets a little confusing, and I'll try to clarify tomorrow.

 

[Myran]

Updated initial thread with some pertinent information!

 

[Aguki90]

You know, when a enemy fly away far. And they crash to the ground.

I throw them pikmin. Somehow they work very well. Now they can inflict damage when they roll back up.
I use of then because when the pikmin stick with the foe and when they get up attacking, my foe lag when attack the pikmin and in that moment I got more time to react and hit them back with a grab or attack. Mostly grab.

Use Yellow pikmin in the air is you want reach father.

And sometime very akward moment. When I do the grab to mario and Mario (or Dr. Mario) use their cape, My pikmin grab the oppenent but Olimar is facing backward and still can do normal throws. I recomend to Up trow because Bthrow and Fthrow is very confusing.

Be careful using Upsmash when character can reflect it. Is happen, your gonna have a bad time.

Dair, Is sometime very good and usefull. Is you do a short hop and Dair(act fast for this) you get zero lag on the ground. Is you Dominate it, You can low jump Dair all day Long, in the edge.

Those are techquine and crazy stuff I do with Olimar.

Don't forget about Dthrow and Combo with it! 0% Do Upthrow then Upair.

 

[Seleir]

ty a lot i try as fast as i can :D

 

[GoT]

I've found out how to do the DDS on the ledge of Battlefield. So far I've gotten one Pikmin to slide on the stage like normal, while getting a ghostbox to store itself right in front of the ledge like in the video that you linked Blue Banana. The Pikmin will slide across the the air as well. I even managed to get both Pikmin of the dsmash to be there going in the 2 directions. Still working on figuring it all out, but I'll drop a post soon once I get more concrete info.

Edit: Can't seem to get it on any other stages except Battlefield. Still trying though.

Myran So how do you get the ledge ghostbox? Thanks!!!

 

[Dattoking]

Man, I know this thread is really old and dead and ****, but I wanted to point out that pluck canceling is really useful for changing directions on the ground by releasing move stick, plucking and immediately going into the other direction. It works just like the extended dash dance, but can be done anytime when running. I like to call this Pluckstrotting. I'm sure many already use it.

Also. On 2 occasions since I got the game back in 2014, I have performed an up-smash behind Olimar, right when my opponent hit the Pikmin used.

I haven't managed to pull it off on purpose in a match and I have had no one to research it with. But what I think happens, is that the pikmin has to be selected (have the arrow), has to be running on the ground (after being thrown for example), and has to be in hitstun from an attack, a well as in range. The max range away from Olimar this can potentially happen is the range a selected pikmin may be away to be used for a smash attack. If you chuck a pikmin and turn around, wait for the pikmin to get close, and smash, you can see how much range it is. It's unexpectedly far actually. The pikmin will teleport in front of you and jump for the up-smash. Well, not an actual teleport, but just very high speed movement. So imagine if it's being hit right then. That might have prevented the teleport and triggered the smash right there. This is a theory that I think deserves some testing. If one could learn to use this tech consistently, it could possibly be some kind of Desync Pikmin Counter. Which, to me, is really damn exciting.

I did have footage of this happening, taken with my phone. But it disappeared somewhere. It was a long time ago. And the replays are long gone.

EDIT:
Damn, I got excited and started researching it by myself using 2 controllers on my newly acquired Wii U, and here is what I found out:
I was right. When the pikmin snaps to Olimar to perform a smash attack, the teleport gets canceled by an attack which leads to the pikmin performing the smash on the spot. Only works when the pikmin is behind Olimar, so he has to look the other way. Pretty much only works when you only have 1 pikmin out, since the pikmin running on the ground must be selected with the arrow. It works quite a distance behind Olimar which looks awesome. Works for any pikmin and also, every smash! When performing the Down-smash version, the attack moves towards Olimar.

The problem is that the pikmin still takes damage from the attack, which means that if it dies from it, this can't be done. So attacks that deal more damage than the used pikmin has HP(7/8/11/13%) can never be countered with this. Apart from that, any attack on the pikmin

Here is a quick video showing what it looks like in action (kinda):

Has this been found before?

 

[Myran]

Man, I know this thread is really old and dead and ****, but I wanted to point out that pluck canceling is really useful for changing directions on the ground by releasing move stick, plucking and immediately going into the other direction. It works just like the extended dash dance, but can be done anytime when running. I like to call this Pluckstrotting. I'm sure many already use it.

Also. On 2 occasions since I got the game back in 2014, I have performed an up-smash behind Olimar, right when my opponent hit the Pikmin used.

I haven't managed to pull it off on purpose in a match and I have had no one to research it with. But what I think happens, is that the pikmin has to be selected (have the arrow), has to be running on the ground (after being thrown for example), and has to be in hitstun from an attack, a well as in range. The max range away from Olimar this can potentially happen is the range a selected pikmin may be away to be used for a smash attack. If you chuck a pikmin and turn around, wait for the pikmin to get close, and smash, you can see how much range it is. It's unexpectedly far actually. The pikmin will teleport in front of you and jump for the up-smash. Well, not an actual teleport, but just very high speed movement. So imagine if it's being hit right then. That might have prevented the teleport and triggered the smash right there. This is a theory that I think deserves some testing. If one could learn to use this tech consistently, it could possibly be some kind of Desync Pikmin Counter. Which, to me, is really damn exciting.

I did have footage of this happening, taken with my phone. But it disappeared somewhere. It was a long time ago. And the replays are long gone.

EDIT:
Damn, I got excited and started researching it by myself using 2 controllers on my newly acquired Wii U, and here is what I found out:
I was right. When the pikmin snaps to Olimar to perform a smash attack, the teleport gets canceled by an attack which leads to the pikmin performing the smash on the spot. Only works when the pikmin is behind Olimar, so he has to look the other way. Pretty much only works when you only have 1 pikmin out, since the pikmin running on the ground must be selected with the arrow. It works quite a distance behind Olimar which looks awesome. Works for any pikmin and also, every smash! When performing the Down-smash version, the attack moves towards Olimar.

The problem is that the pikmin still takes damage from the attack, which means that if it dies from it, this can't be done. So attacks that deal more damage than the used pikmin has HP(7/8/11/13%) can never be countered with this. Apart from that, any attack on the pikmin

Here is a quick video showing what it looks like in action (kinda):

Has this been found before?

That's the main version of a desync smash. It's been discussed and explained in other threads before. I don't have the link off the top of my head but I'll post a brief explanation I gave someone the other day.

Whenever a smash is done out of movement such as a run up smash, pivot fsmash, or falling dsmash the pikmin lag behind Olimar slightly. During this time their hurt boxes are active but they haven't put out their hitboxes yet. The opponents attack hits the Pikmin while moving to Olimar however once a smash is started it can't be stopped so the pikmin soaks their hit then hits them. This is why it doesn't clank. Yes it's a useful tech. I do it semi consistently and am getting better at a good pace. Landing dsmash does it usually with the 2nd pikmin since it lags slower. You can also does this out of a Pikmin pluck if the opponent hits the pikmin at the Apex of its pluck and you buffer the Smash right. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Myran So how do you get the ledge ghostbox? Thanks!!!

If you're referring to Wii U desyncs that worked in 3ds work different for the most part. I also have touched the 3ds version since Wii U came out.

 

[GoT]

Man, I know this thread is really old and dead and ****, but I wanted to point out that pluck canceling is really useful for changing directions on the ground by releasing move stick, plucking and immediately going into the other direction. It works just like the extended dash dance, but can be done anytime when running. I like to call this Pluckstrotting. I'm sure many already use it.

Also. On 2 occasions since I got the game back in 2014, I have performed an up-smash behind Olimar, right when my opponent hit the Pikmin used.

I haven't managed to pull it off on purpose in a match and I have had no one to research it with. But what I think happens, is that the pikmin has to be selected (have the arrow), has to be running on the ground (after being thrown for example), and has to be in hitstun from an attack, a well as in range. The max range away from Olimar this can potentially happen is the range a selected pikmin may be away to be used for a smash attack. If you chuck a pikmin and turn around, wait for the pikmin to get close, and smash, you can see how much range it is. It's unexpectedly far actually. The pikmin will teleport in front of you and jump for the up-smash. Well, not an actual teleport, but just very high speed movement. So imagine if it's being hit right then. That might have prevented the teleport and triggered the smash right there. This is a theory that I think deserves some testing. If one could learn to use this tech consistently, it could possibly be some kind of Desync Pikmin Counter. Which, to me, is really damn exciting.

I did have footage of this happening, taken with my phone. But it disappeared somewhere. It was a long time ago. And the replays are long gone.

EDIT:
Damn, I got excited and started researching it by myself using 2 controllers on my newly acquired Wii U, and here is what I found out:
I was right. When the pikmin snaps to Olimar to perform a smash attack, the teleport gets canceled by an attack which leads to the pikmin performing the smash on the spot. Only works when the pikmin is behind Olimar, so he has to look the other way. Pretty much only works when you only have 1 pikmin out, since the pikmin running on the ground must be selected with the arrow. It works quite a distance behind Olimar which looks awesome. Works for any pikmin and also, every smash! When performing the Down-smash version, the attack moves towards Olimar.

The problem is that the pikmin still takes damage from the attack, which means that if it dies from it, this can't be done. So attacks that deal more damage than the used pikmin has HP(7/8/11/13%) can never be countered with this. Apart from that, any attack on the pikmin

Here is a quick video showing what it looks like in action (kinda):

Has this been found before?

Haven't seen such a good explanation or video, though, nice!

 

[Myran]

Actually when a Pikmin is killed during the beginning of a smash when it's in the charging phase you can release it during the death animation cancelling it, and smashing from where the ghost was.

 

[Dattoking]

Actually when a Pikmin is killed during the beginning of a smash when it's in the charging phase you can release it during the death animation cancelling it, and smashing from where the ghost was.

This is all great information! Well, now there is at least a little bit more activity over here, which is always great. I've only recently started looking around smashboards, which is why I don't really know what and what haven't been found out about the game yet, especially weird stuff like Olimar's pikmin glitches.

I think it'd be great to kind of get a nice, simple collection of advanced tech in, for example, this thread. So that aspiring Olimars (like myself) can go to a single place and find all the cool stuff. Maybe someone, or even myself, could make a full video about pretty much all that Olimar can do. I feel like this already exists for so many characters that aren't Olimar haha. Now, I'm not usually one to do that sort of thing, though, since I have pretty much no skill or experience in making good looking videos, but I might try if no one will.

I'd love as much info as I can get on techniques, usages of the desyncs and all that good stuff.
Does anyone know if the Desync down smash on the platform can be used to make opponents slide off? I'm thinking that there might be some hype jab-lock combos there or something. EDIT: Doesn't seem like it...
Anything is appreciated

 

[koken]

This is all great information! Well, now there is at least a little bit more activity over here, which is always great. I've only recently started looking around smashboards, which is why I don't really know what and what haven't been found out about the game yet, especially weird stuff like Olimar's pikmin glitches.

I think it'd be great to kind of get a nice, simple collection of advanced tech in, for example, this thread. So that aspiring Olimars (like myself) can go to a single place and find all the cool stuff. Maybe someone, or even myself, could make a full video about pretty much all that Olimar can do. I feel like this already exists for so many characters that aren't Olimar haha. Now, I'm not usually one to do that sort of thing, though, since I have pretty much no skill or experience in making good looking videos, but I might try if no one will.

I'd love as much info as I can get on techniques, usages of the desyncs and all that good stuff.
Does anyone know if the Desync down smash on the platform can be used to make opponents slide off? I'm thinking that there might be some hype jab-lock combos there or something. EDIT: Doesn't seem like it...
Anything is appreciated

Please, do it without worries. Anything is better than nothing.
So go ahead with that video :D.

 

[Dattoking]

Alright, I've decided to give it a shot. The problem is that I don't have a capture card, meaning that I make short clips using the upload system in the game. It only supports 3 minute max replays to be uploaded which is kind of a pain. It also prevents me from showcasing true combos with the in game combo counter in training mode.

That said:
I would really appreciate any olimar techniques and how to perform them. I will mention the smallest details that i've personally noticed. For example, researching has shown me that a desync down-smash from behind olimar like the one in my last post true-combos into jab and downtilt on low percents. Also, spamming downsmash as fast as you can will result in only half of the down-smashes working due to the move having too little lag for the pikmins to stop their animation. so waiting just a LITTLE bit between smashes will let the smash work and be spammed at almost full speed. I will mention autocanceling aerials for more efficient spacing and stuff like that i think. For example, buffering up air during a full-hop will just barely lett you you another one right after and autocancel it for 0 lag. will let you jump with 2 up-airs without doublejumping and land without lag. Pretty harsh timing though.

Actually when a Pikmin is killed during the beginning of a smash when it's in the charging phase you can release it during the death animation cancelling it, and smashing from where the ghost was.

This is going into the video for sure. To clear up for anyone interested, when a pikmin is hit, the sound and ghost appears if the pikmin takes enough damage to die. However, the pikmin itself dies with a slight delay. So that death animation can be canceled with a smash, as long as the conditions are right. (Selected and desynced) This will save the pikmin and give you a hit on the opponent most of the time.

I think it's also worth talking about advantages and also disadvantages to having more pikmin on the field. I feel like it can sometimes be more useful to have only 2 or 1 pikmin on the field at a time rather than 3. Having a solo purple for example. I can do a short-hop falling side-b to force a tech situation around the 30-50%'s on most characters. If they miss the tech, first hit jab will lock them, and lead into a perfect pivot f-smash with the same purple pikmin to kill really early. Opponents go from being mid-stage with 50% to being dead. I'm think many can DI upwards to avoid the tech situation most of the time though, but landing that jab-lock is very satisfying when succeeded. If the enemy miss a tech at 100%-ish percents, first hit jab for the lock, and charge jump-cancel up-smash will probably do the job.

 

[Myran]

What exactly are you making a video of? Desync smashes?

 

[Dattoking]

I suppose it will be a olimar video guide of sorts, featuring anything olimar related. I am going to focus alot on olimar specific tech and their uses, as well as maybe some combos, so desync smashes is something i want to cover as much as possible. I have so far got a clip of a dd-smash>jabjab>grab>d-throw>up-air>up-air combo which is pretty cool. If opponents DI away, x2 up-air will only be a fair instead though as always. Then a purple side-b>first hit jab reset>pp-fsmash combo. Well, for when the opponent misses their tech, that is. Myran I feel like you are the one here with the most experience on the desync smashes and pretty much anything olimar related, so i'd love to see what you have to say about desync smashes with their different techniques and uses.

Basically the point of this video is showcasing that olimar is a really interesting character. He isn't exactly a crowd-favorite and i really think he deserves more respect. Also, having an easy-to-follow, simple video showcasing what the character can do and how to do it would make olimar a much more accessable character to get into and start playing.

 

[koken]

Yes it will, because picking up Olimar at first glance it's a dumb decision (someone may think). The true is that being good with the character takes a lot of effort, at least from the beginning.

Can you add to your clips or videos, the height and distance where Olimar's aerials gets canceled? It would be VERY USEFUL actually.

 

[Myran]

Ahh gotcha. Well if you have any questions regarding them or anything Olimar feel free to ask me.

 

[Dattoking]

Myran Actually, the only applications of the desync smashes that ive seen are those in this thread. That is, the platform down smash from 2014 and the counter-like technique used when a pikmin gets hit. Are there more applications, that is, more different kinds of desync smashes? Are there no names for each specific application? (i temporarily named the one i found a "pikmin hitstun cancel smash counter" in my video title for example, but having different names for the same thing will eventually be confusing).

 

[Myran]

Desync Smash is the general term I gave it. It's what I use to label the ones where Pikmin are hit, soak the opposing hitbox, and then hit the opponent. It's from there that I'll label others off of it, so how Platform Desync Dsmash is. The general Deysnc Smash where the opponent hits your Pikmin is actually very practical, and can be setup in actual matches with proper awareness. I do it in my matches to punish things I normally couldn't.

 

[koken]

Yes it will, because picking up Olimar at first glance it's a dumb decision (someone may think). The true is that being good with the character takes a lot of effort, at least from the beginning.

Can you add to your clips or videos, the height and distance where Olimar's aerials gets canceled? It would be VERY USEFUL actually.

Dattoking
Could you add too the proper spacing for a landing Bair without being grabbed, at least with the usual grab of the average cast.
It would be nice to watch too if every pikmin cause the same effect to the shield and the hitstun stuff related to do it against a shield too.

I think those 2 things would be great for beginners but may be a lot of work maybe...

 

[Dattoking]

Myran
I see, great info! Are there any specific setups you like to do to effectively make use of desync smashes?

 

[Dattoking]

Dattoking
Could you add too the proper spacing for a landing Bair without being grabbed, at least with the usual grab of the average cast.
It would be nice to watch too if every pikmin cause the same effect to the shield and the hitstun stuff related to do it against a shield too.

I think those 2 things would be great for beginners but may be a lot of work maybe...

Well, the general rule is that the more damage the hit does, the more shieldstun and push back it will do, right? So the best pikmin for poking at the shield are purple and red. The worst being white. Then it's up to fundamentals, i mean, spacing correctly, and the bair specifically needs a bit more time than the other aerials to be autocanceled, so fastfalling right away is a bad idea, as you will lag on the landing. Its about getting the feel of the timing i guess.

Another unrelated note is that sdi+up-b is really useful for getting out of multihits like jabs. There is no risk of losing your jump and autocanceling an aerial out of it can be a good landing mixup. The up-b itself give a little quick boost upwards on start up too. This is probably going into the video.

 

[Myran]

I wouldn't say any real setups per say. More so just awareness of my opponents actions and when they may attack. I'll then space my movement on the ground or when falling to catch their hit. Maybe fox trot to bait and action then pivot fsmash, or empty hop fast fall dsmash. Probably the two most consistent desync setups.

 

[Dattoking]

I see. This is all useful information! I really appreciate you taking time to give info on this.