Olimar v Snake outlet (to a matchup thread)

[DanGR]

It's Snake week in the Oli forums! Here's the original thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4569237#post4569237

If you'd like to help contribute anything to our thread, we'd deeply appreciate it. You can either post in this thread or the original. I'll be checking both, but I can guarantee that more Olimainers will in the Oli forums. And thus there will be more debate and discussion in the thread I linked. I'll probably be the only one checking in here.

The general consensus among the Olimar boards is that it's 60:40 Olimar.

Rules:
1.) We're not talking about friendly matches among new players. It's for the higher level of play only, so assume your opponent is good with the character he/she uses and knows the matchup as well as you do.

2.) No flaming. I don't tolerate it, and I probably will just ignore whoever does it. Peace please.

~thanks in advance

 

[OlimarFan]

Wow, I really do appreciate the amount of time you spend on the forums.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Why would anybody think Olimar has the advantage in this matchup? His long range is completely nullified by Snake's dash attack, which has more range than everything Olimar has and is fast enough to punish Oli better than most characters. After the dash attack, Oli is in the air, and because of his lack of priority in the air he is a pretty easy target for Snake's aerials. Plus, a running spotdodge is just as effective in getting inside Oli's range to punish him.

I've never seen an Olimar that was able to give a good Snake any trouble. Until Oli's metagame is further along, this matchup is indeed 60:40. But its in Snake's favor.

 

[DanGR]

Why would anybody think Olimar has the advantage in this matchup? His long range is completely nullified by Snake's dash attack, which has more range than everything Olimar has and is fast enough to punish Oli better than most characters.

After the dash attack, Oli is in the air, and because of his lack of priority in the air he is a pretty easy target for Snake's aerials. Plus, a running spotdodge is just as effective in getting inside Oli's range to punish him.

I don't understand what you're saying. Olimar's pivotgrab/standing grab/ running grab game is an easy way to beat all of Snake's fast approaches. Think of Olimar's defense like yoshi's pivotgrab game, but with a pivotgrab the length of Lucario's fsmash and a projectile that will force Snake to make quick approaches.

These things can work. They just don't have a very high success rate. They won't break Olimar's pressure defense very easily. You've also got to factor in that one shieldgrab/grab at low percents will lead to an easy 40-50%. (and this is before juggle traps and other followups) These strings/combos naturally push Snake into the air or off the stage.

Snake has an airgame that can't keep up with Oli's aerial defense. It's just too easy to keep him in the air, as every attack can be shieldgrabbed, and all of his landings can be grabbed during the few vulnerability frames that characters have upon landing. It's long enough to give even Snake a lot of trouble.

I've never seen an Olimar that was able to give a good Snake any trouble. Until Oli's metagame is further along, this matchup is indeed 60:40. But its in Snake's favor.

You sure they were good? >_> I mean, unless you play with or against Olimar very regularly, it's hard to recognize the good ones from the bad ones.

It may take a month for you to really know. When you see an Olimar user, you just see a bunch of pikmin flying every which way. You might not recognize all of the different choices the Olimar could have made instead of the bad ones. (trust me, he's got a lot more options than most characters have in a given situation) This is what makes one Olimar better than another. I'm just saying...

Meh, I can't explain this very well. Just come over to the Oli board's matchup thread and ask there. They know what I'm trying to say. ._.

 

[TheWii]

Olimar has an advantage, 60-40 against aggressive Snake and 55-45 against the good defensive ones (grenades, mines...). I posted in the Olimar boards why I think so but I dont have time to post it here.

Oli does have an advantage against Snake, thought everyone knowed that.

And how can you say that you dont know any Olimar that gived a good Snake trouble? Didn't Mr X 2 stock Psycho ******?

 

[Black_Heretic]

And how can you say that you dont know any Olimar that gived a good Snake trouble? Didn't Mr X 2 stock Psycho ******?

Did the same to DSF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibmr1k2xJHE

 

[napZzz]

Why would anybody think Olimar has the advantage in this matchup? His long range is completely nullified by Snake's dash attack, which has more range than everything Olimar has and is fast enough to punish Oli better than most characters. After the dash attack, Oli is in the air, and because of his lack of priority in the air he is a pretty easy target for Snake's aerials. Plus, a running spotdodge is just as effective in getting inside Oli's range to punish him.

I've never seen an Olimar that was able to give a good Snake any trouble. Until Oli's metagame is further along, this matchup is indeed 60:40. But its in Snake's favor.

Snakes mortar slide goes through basically ALL of oli's crap with good timing

 

[Greenstreet]

Why would anybody think Olimar has the advantage in this matchup? His long range is completely nullified by Snake's dash attack, which has more range than everything Olimar has and is fast enough to punish Oli better than most characters. After the dash attack, Oli is in the air, and because of his lack of priority in the air he is a pretty easy target for Snake's aerials. Plus, a running spotdodge is just as effective in getting inside Oli's range to punish him.

I've never seen an Olimar that was able to give a good Snake any trouble. Until Oli's metagame is further along, this matchup is indeed 60:40. But its in Snake's favor.

Not to mention snake absolutely punishes in the air... o wait. U did mention that. Well its pretty bad tho.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

sorry panda ill have to agree with DanGr here, olimar's grab owns snake too much

and that 40%ish grab fair combo

 

[jetfour]

Did the same to DSF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibmr1k2xJHE

That video was in April. DSF (not to mention all Snakes) have gotten significantly more advanced. I'm not saying that Olimars haven't gotten better; I'm just saying that video is a terrible example to use for the argument.



Also, PyschoMidget knows his shiz but he doesn't win tournaments.

 

[Black_Heretic]

That video was in April. DSF (not to mention all Snakes) have gotten significantly more advanced. I'm not saying that Olimars haven't gotten better; I'm just saying that video is a terrible example to use for the argument.



Also, PyschoMidget knows his shiz but he doesn't win tournaments.

I'm well aware of that, but I was just pointing that out for no particular reason. Sorry.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

That video was in April. DSF (not to mention all Snakes) have gotten significantly more advanced. I'm not saying that Olimars haven't gotten better; I'm just saying that video is a terrible example to use for the argument.



Also, PyschoMidget knows his shiz but he doesn't win tournaments.

This.

Snakes mortar slide goes through basically ALL of oli's crap with good timing

And this.

Oli does have an advantage against Snake, thought everyone knowed that.

Not anyone good.

sorry panda ill have to agree with DanGr here, olimar's grab owns snake too much

and that 40%ish grab fair combo

You actually get hit by that? Ask Vayseth, his Oli couldn't really do much to my Snake (and no, thats not what I'm basing my opinion on). Unless it was teams. His Oli was **** in teams.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

wheres a good oli in michigan/midwest though?

no offense to him but vayseth has the knowledge but not the execution, even though you did say thats not what youre basing your opinion on

 

[TheWii]

Dsmash and fsmash is quick enough to go through a well timed Mortar Slide. Mortar Slide got like 0 priority.

Snakes high weight and being a big target makes Olimars grabs and side-b even more useful and Olimar can chaingrab him (but the chaingrab is not that good).