Q&A Olimar Q&A thread.

[Blue Banana]

Why is it when you throw a pikmin onto me, some moves get rid of it but some don't? I main , whose nair instantly gets them off them, however my secondary is , whose nair is similar but doesn't seem to always get rid of them? What is the actual mechanics behind this? Just wondering really

Pika's nair hitbox covers its whole hurtbox (body) entirely, so it's fairly easy to knock Pikmin off it with nair. R.O.B.'s nair doesn't cover its body; nair just makes a giant sweeping hitbox around it, starting from its burners. Depending on where the Pikmin is latched on R.O.B., nair may not be able to hit them.

 

[koken]

Pika's nair hitbox covers its whole hurtbox (body) entirely, so it's fairly easy to knock Pikmin off it with nair. R.O.B.'s nair doesn't cover its body; nair just makes a giant sweeping hitbox around it, starting from its burners. Depending on where the Pikmin is latched on R.O.B., nair may not be able to hit them.

Thank you man, I was trying to find an answer but you did it awesome XD.

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

Why does Olimar do good against Diddy Kong?

 

[Dalxp26]

Why does Olimar do good against Diddy Kong?

Olimar is able to zone out Diddy very well by stopping bananas but has to be play carefully because Diddy has an extremely safe move in fair that can make or break the match not to mention Diddy has a couple of kill confirms. If you can stop the banana or force him to not pluck it the game is greatly in Olimars favor

 

[Remi45]

Does Olimar benefit from Bidou tech? I don't feel like he's going to be one of those characters that can make a big use of it.

 

[koken]

Does Olimar benefit from Bidou tech? I don't feel like he's going to be one of those characters that can make a big use of it.

I don't think so :/

 

[ArtisanBubblegum]

Hi, I've been thinking about picking up a secondary.

I've played a bit with DK, and I'm liking the way he feels to play.

Should I put the time into learning DK, or would I be better off focusing more on Olimar?

 

[Hb2]

Something weird happened to me yesterday during a tournament match. While trying to recover against a Rosalina, I ended up using my up-B several times until I finally touched the ground during Olimar's helpless animation. At that exact moment, I get hit by Rosa's d-smash and, while trying to avoid Luma and recover again, I use my f-air... and Olimar enters his helpless animation once again. I ended up losing the stock and the whole match after that, really frustrating because I have no idea what happened. Thankfully, the match was streamed, here's the part where it happens:

https://www.twitch.tv/dm_channel_1/v/76640636?t=15m35s

This isn't the first time it has happened to me though, last week something similar happened during another tournament match. I remember having used my whole up-B and touching the ground during the helpless animation, getting hit by Mario's u-smash and using an aerial after hitstun (can't remember which one), then entering the helpless animation out of nowhere. I'm sure I didn't use up-b again, it definitely was an aerial. Does anybody know what happened? Is this somewhat related to RCO lag?

 

[C0rvus]

Perhaps. I have had something similar happen with Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape. I land near a ledge, slide off and go back into helpless. Your guess is as good as mine, but your example is even crazier.

 

[koken]

That is because the "fuel" of your Up b run out, as you use it several times, it is probably the best answer to this question.

As you did a Fair, and I guess you did Up B after that to get to the ledge, you run out of "fuel" so the Up B animation apparently didn't come out and you fall in helpless animation.

If you are totally sure you didn't use Up B after that, it should be related to something about "finishing" the last move, because the move didn't finish by touching the ground, the game assume that is the "next thing" to finish (just guessing).
If that is the case, you should definitely (or anybody really) try and lab that issue about using Up B several time and receive a hit before you hit the ground, to see what is really, so we can confirm is a RCO lag.

Hb2

 

[EternalFlare]

Does anyone know how Pikmin Order works when it comes to ordering Pikmin?

For some reason I'm finding that sometimes it takes 1 down B to send the last Pikmin in your queue to the top and sometimes it takes 2, how come? Why isn't it consistent?

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[Myran]

Does anyone know how Pikmin Order works when it comes to ordering Pikmin?

For some reason I'm finding that sometimes it takes 1 down B to send the last Pikmin in your queue to the top and sometimes it takes 2, how come? Why isn't it consistent?

Not sure why I missed this before but the reason is that it always follows the color order. Red/Yellow/Blue/White/Purple

Sometimes you have to whistle more than once to keep changing the order since it pushes the color in front to the back and makes the next one first. Also pikmin can't be whistled back mid attack or side b animation so that could also be why too.

 

[EternalFlare]

How viable is Red down throw to Purple uair as a kill combo?

According to the training mode counter, it's a true combo and kills most of the cast at around 110ish without rage. this is pretty huge as normally Olimar can't kill off a grab until 140+ with a blue Pikmin without rage.

However, I suspect opponents might be able to DI away and avoid the up air. I'm not sure if the combo still works with DI away but I'm guessing it doesn't. And his down throw animation is long enough to make it easy to react to and DI away.

But if anyone knows if it works on DI away or not please let me know.

Also if they DI away would RAR bair still true combo? That could also potentially kill very early if they are close to a ledge after getting grabbed.

Lastly, even if it doesn't true combo with good DI, I think this is still a great option as you can always wait for an air dodge. And with rage you could be looking at a kills as low as 90 off of a grab thanks to this.

 

[Myran]

Dthrow into uair or rar bair is an actual combo at certain percents and can kill. It's usually DI dependent though. If they DI out it'll probably be a rar bair you use, and if it's DI in the the uair.

 

[EternalFlare]

So it does work then at kill percents even with good DI? It's not just a gimmick?

It seems like a really good kill option in that case. I'm surprised Olimars don't fish for it all the time.

It can KO mid weight characters starting at 110ish. With rage, it no doubt can kill at 100 or even lower. And Olimar has the best (tether) grab in terms of safety.

It also helps that the natural Pikmin order involves purple and red next to each other in the queue so getting that combination is pretty easy.

Only downside I can see is that you might have to predict the DI, might not have time to react to DI in versus DI away. Still even a 50/50 chance of killing that early is pretty solid.

Edit:

It also seems to work with a White down throw. It requires a pretty fast double jump. But since they are a bit higher, this could potentially kill even earlier.

 

[Myran]

I've killed people at 70 by landing the bair near the ledge. Also you'd be surprised how many Olimar players don't know about his ideal follow ups and all that.

 

[EternalFlare]

I've killed people at 70 by landing the bair near the ledge. Also you'd be surprised how many Olimar players don't know about his ideal follow ups and all that.

Is there a guide somewhere with optimal followups and kill setups?

I read the Olimar guide here a while back and iiirc it didn't mention this kill confirm, I just figured it out myself by realizing red down throw did significantly less knockback.

RAR bair doesn't seem to work on every character at 90+ as it will just whiff or won't true combo in time but it works on all the tall ones I've tested. But yeah, on characters it does work, it can kill potentially a lot earlier than uair if you were already very close to the edge.

Though it will probably work on nearly everyone at 70ish as in your example but that will only kill with a lot of rage and/or bad DI. But I'm uncertain about this.

 

[Myran]

Yeah my guide doesn't have it included. There's a few things I need to update in it actually. This is a solid follow up and kill option though. It's also safe to assume you're gonna have rage often.

 

[EternalFlare]

Yeah my guide doesn't have it included. There's a few things I need to update in it actually. This is a solid follow up and kill option though. It's also safe to assume you're gonna have rage often.

Yeah unless you are dominating chances are you are going to have at least a little bit of rage before they reach around 100 percent. And Olimar's uair has a decent BKB of 50 (which determines how much rage affects a move).

One small issue might be with too much rage at the very least white down throw might stop confirming. Though even without rage I'm not sure if RAR Bair would work against DI away if it's a white.

Another kill confirm I've been thinking of is falling nair into up Smash. You used to see this in Brawl. Falling nair isn't too safe on block so as a hit confirm it's not very good. But if you can predict/react to a grounded move the opponent is throwing out, a falling nair might work where a simple run Upsmash would not.

Example:
You are in a short hop and notice the opponent decided to roll forward at that moment. A falling nair might catch it and lead into an up Smash. A raw Up smash would almost certainly have been too slow in this case.

With that said I don't know how guaranteed nair-up Smash is. If they air dodge that's fine as they'll likely be in lag and will fall for your next move. Similarly if they try to jump out, up Smash might catch it. But a fast aerial might protect them.

 

[Myran]

Nair into any smash is actually true depending on how you do it and all the percents. I don't know numbers off the top of my head, but depending on when you land with the move and what angle you came in with it can be true sometimes. I usually just feel it out on the spot to decide my follow up.

 

[Freezie KO]

Falling nair to up smash is definitely true on characters with big hurtboxes. I've had trouble landing it on smaller characters, but it may be true depending on the percent.

 

[koken]

Please consider the fast faller, it will not work on them if you DON'T have rage, because they reach the ground before the start of the move.

 

[EternalFlare]

Yeah it seems the previously mentioned red/yellow down throw to rar bair at kill percents also only works against certain characters, mainly big bodies that fall fairly fast. Against floaties or small characters it seems to whiff. So you'd have to hope for an air dodge.

Downthrow to uair will work on just about everyone but that requires them to not DI away and once they realize they can simply do this and then nothing is guaranteed if they are small/floaty, I don't see why they wouldn't.

So as good of a kill confirm as this potentially is, it might only be relevant in a few matchups.

 

[Myran]

I have true combod red dthrow rar Bair on Mario and greninja and more. Its a true combo at certain percents. It's a viable kill setup

 

[R. E. B]

What are tournament viable stages that olimar is best suited for, (3ds and wii)?

 

[MERPIS]

Who does olimar counter notably and who does he hate the most?

 

[Sky Pirate]

Counter notably: Diddy
Hate the most: Probably like... Fox or Mewtwo

 

[Swop]

Bayonetta, please, for the love of god I want to win against a bayonetta but I can't seem to get close to her or even pressure her, I'm afraid of that damn witch time and pikmin latched onto her have the worst timing to destroy me.

 

[Myran]

Gonna have to bait her into witch timing Pikmin on her with movement and then whistle them back. It's a lot of mid/long range walling until she commits and you get an opening, once that happens reset back to neutral. Thrown in purple side-b or aerials when she approachs to catch her off guard. Rather basic sounding but it's the gist of the matchup.

 

[Omastar]

Shuton did very well at the latest Sumabato placing first. He only lost two matches throughout the entire event. Of course the results in Japanese tournaments should be taken with a grain of salt as they can be wildly inconsistent and many do sandbag, but this shouldn't take anything away from Shuton as he is a fantastic player. Having said that what does Shuton do differently from other Olimar players? Do you think people are sleeping on Olimar way too hard and if he comes overseas would be capable of replicating the same success? Would it shake up the meta to an extent or be a flavor of the month akin to Duck Hunt?

 

[Myran]

I'd look at it more the other way. Imo Shuton and I play very similar overall. However the US is a far more aggressive region, we like to put pressure on and get people out of our face. That means I don't get to throw out as many unsafe smashes or something like Shuton does. Now I'm not saying he's bad, but I think the more defensive nature of Japanese play benefits him greatly in how he is able to land a lot of his kills.

 

[Omastar]

I'd look at it more the other way. Imo Shuton and I play very similar overall. However the US is a far more aggressive region, we like to put pressure on and get people out of our face. That means I don't get to throw out as many unsafe smashes or something like Shuton does. Now I'm not saying he's bad, but I think the more defensive nature of Japanese play benefits him greatly in how he is able to land a lot of his kills.

Hmmm that makes sense. If thats the case where would you place Olimar on a tier list with a more defensive meta like Japan? Would he still be mid tier (aggressive meta), or higher? I can see him doing better in a more projectile/neutral based meta as pikmin can intercept many projectiles as well as tack on a lot of percent with little commitment.

P.S. Its great to see some interaction from the best Olimar player in the states! Having a recognizable player actively answering questions is seldom seen on smashboards nowadays. Keep it up!

 

[Myran]

I think he's top 15 at least regardless of the location he's played in. My/Shuton's playstyle works well regardless, except in the US or more aggro places it takes a lot more powershielding mixed in with the aggression. Now I do think some defensive play is necessary, but I think overall he benefits heavily from aggression, especially with 2 purples. Kinda need the fine balance and ability to switch seamlessly between the two playstyles. Most Olimars only focus on one which I feel holds them back.

 

[Mamoru~]

Just have a simple question about a specific mix-up/combo at low percents. Watching a lot of Olimar replays, I've seen that they rarely opt for jump-canceled up-smash after a down-throw at low percent. I'm just wondering what the downsides are specifically? I have only so far played at locals, so i can normally get some kind of follow up or the hit is just satisfactory enough over a fair, but i know it cant be 100% reliable or optimal if its seen so sparsely. Can anyone give me some insight? Thank you.

 

[Myran]

I almost always dthrow into JC Upsmash. The only times I really don't go for it is if they're out of the percent window for their character, or if I have a lineup that would work better with something else like dthrow into short hop side-b into fair. Overall I think it's a solid option with the right lineup. But the other options like dthrow fair or various follow ups can work. I'd recommend experimenting with them all so you get a better idea of when to use each.

 

[Mamoru~]

I almost always dthrow into JC Upsmash. The only times I really don't go for it is if they're out of the percent window for their character, or if I have a lineup that would work better with something else like dthrow into short hop side-b into fair. Overall I think it's a solid option with the right lineup. But the other options like dthrow fair or various follow ups can work. I'd recommend experimenting with them all so you get a better idea of when to use each.

Thanks so much for replying! I try and analyze just about as much olimar gameplay as i can, and ive watched just about all your replays on equinox smash for the past while. I dont know why short hop side-b into fair out of downthrow never crossed my mind, so thank you for that! I really just wanted to know if it was a viable go to at low percent, jc up-smash, and youve confirmed what i was wondering. Thank you!

 

[koken]

Well if it useful for you, sometimes I JC Usmash too but when I'm really confident in the match. When I'm not that sure or I have some troubles, I will go for the most secure and guaranteed movement like Jump Fair.
The same happens to me when I try to do the Dthrow Bair combo, I'm not very good with the timing and usually tend to fail the hit or just getting a Fair instead of a Bair.

The thing I always use, and I'm very aware and focus on that, is to Dthrow to Dair when I'm at the edge of the stage. Your enemy may not being paying attention and can lead to losing a stock, works very well when you have the advantage in the match or you have been nullifying his options.

 

[Heracr055]

I'm picking up Olimar as a potential secondary for my Ryu (probably not the ideal secondary but I wanted an excuse to try him out). In training mode I found yellows to be fairly lackluster conpared to the other Pikmin, and started tossing them off stage. I went to watch Shuton vs Ally and Frostbite and was surprised to see Shuton do the same for the most part. Is ditching yellow or using them as Pikmin Throw fodder ideal?

Not sure why I missed this before but the reason is that it always follows the color order. Red/Yellow/Blue/White/Purple

Sometimes you have to whistle more than once to keep changing the order since it pushes the color in front to the back and makes the next one first. Also pikmin can't be whistled back mid attack or side b animation so that could also be why too.

Is there a video or anything to expand on this? I spent a good hour trying to figure out Pikmin order and desync. I know that the RYBWP Pikmin order is supposed to reign true. However, I want to understand what happens to that when you Pikmin Toss a Pikmin or use it for an attack/grab. I'll use Pikmin Order after they return to me and the lineup doesn't change. And sometimes when I Pikmin Throw 2 Pikmin the second one I threw will come back as 1st in line. There seems to be many variables for ordering of Pikmin and I'd like to fully understand it. Or am I overthinking this? (I normally like solving these myself but I'm working killer hours lately, so any help would be appreciated!)

EDIT: Pulled out a notebook+pen and spent time figuring it out. I learned how Pikmin Order works now and how it's separate from the sequential order of Pikmin used during Pikmin Toss, grabs and attacks.

 

[Myran]

So you did figure out your questions? Sorry it was a little unclear. Also I like yellows, it's dependent on what the Olimar wants to do. They're great for getting certain combos due to increased hitstun, and the extra range is amazing for spacing with aerials and dsmash ledge punishes.