Q&A Olimar Q&A thread.

[Darklink401]

So Marth is my second main, next to Villager. And I recently decided to try out Olimar, since HE was my second main in Brawl, next to Marth.

Since his fair is like Marth's, I've begun thinking of Olimar as a shorter Marth, with a projectile, sort of.

So I basically space with fair a lot, and look for opening where I can smash attack, among other Marth-esque things.

Is this a smart thing, to use Olimar as I use Marth, or is there some more depth to it/a double edge to doing that?

 

[Blue Banana]

Generally, Olimar uses Fair for follow ups with a Dthrow and sometimes edgeguarding. It could be used for spacing, but the Pikmin's low priority means that any aerial from an opponent clanks with Fair but still hits Olimar in the process. You should probably use Fsmash more often as a spacing tool and sideB to rack up damage in neutral.

Also, this is a question that should probably be posted in the stickied Q&A thread, so if you have any other questions, you may want to post there.

 

[Darklink401]

Generally, Olimar uses Fair for follow ups with a Dthrow and sometimes edgeguarding. It could be used for spacing, but the Pikmin's low priority means that any aerial from an opponent clanks with Fair but still hits Olimar in the process. You should probably use Fsmash more often as a spacing tool and sideB to rack up damage in neutral.

Also, this is a question that should probably be posted in the stickied Q&A thread, so if you have any other questions, you may want to post there.

Hmm, didn't know they had low priority.

I guess since fsmash goes like a mile in front of him, that would work xD It also doesn't have that much lag, does it?


Oh and oops, I always forget those exist XP

 

[Myran]

Hey @ Darklink401 I merged your previous thread with the Q&A thread since it would probably fit better here. Feel free to keep discussing though!

 

[koken]

So Marth is my second main, next to Villager. And I recently decided to try out Olimar, since HE was my second main in Brawl, next to Marth.
Since his fair is like Marth's, I've begun thinking of Olimar as a shorter Marth, with a projectile, sort of.
So I basically space with fair a lot, and look for opening where I can smash attack, among other Marth-esque things.
Is this a smart thing, to use Olimar as I use Marth, or is there some more depth to it/a double edge to doing that?

Yesterday I was trying Marth/Lucina, because I was tired of practicing with Olimar. I realize they have some similar things but I think they do play quite different. Also what @ Blue Banana said it's awfully true =(.

As an Olimar you try to space yourself from the enemy and try to punish their approaching. You have to throw pikmin and use smashes to distance. Need to pay attention to the pikmin in line and manage your plan according to that, by choosing the white for long grab or throwing a purple for getting space. If your enemy grabs you, you know that you may recover far away.
You can build some damage even without touching your enemy thanks to your pikmins.

As a Marth/Lucina you tend to approach at your enemy, because you have the sword range issue. You are not very useful in distances, also you can counter the attacks, making your enemy distance himself trying to avoid this or making mistakes because of this. I think that Marth/Lucina has a lot of reads. You need to stay near for having the option of causing damage, countering, and keep that dancing sword cutting. Also you can't let your enemy throws you, because it's hard to come back.

 

[Darklink401]

Hey @ Darklink401 I merged your previous thread with the Q&A thread since it would probably fit better here. Feel free to keep discussing though!

Thank you X3

Yesterday I was trying Marth/Lucina, because I was tired of practicing with Olimar. I realize they have some similar things but I think they do play quite different. Also what @ Blue Banana said it's awfully true =(.

As an Olimar you try to space yourself from the enemy and try to punish their approaching. You have to throw pikmin and use smashes to distance. Need to pay attention to the pikmin in line and manage your plan according to that, by choosing the white for long grab or throwing a purple for getting space. If your enemy grabs you, you know that you may recover far away.
You can build some damage even without touching your enemy thanks to your pikmins.

As a Marth/Lucina you tend to approach at your enemy, because you have the sword range issue. You are not very useful in distances, also you can counter the attacks, making your enemy distance himself trying to avoid this or making mistakes because of this. I think that Marth/Lucina has a lot of reads. You need to stay near for having the option of causing damage, countering, and keep that dancing sword cutting. Also you can't let your enemy throws you, because it's hard to come back.

Thank you :3

Yeah I see that while they have a lot of similar...things going for them, they also have quite different playstyles.

I like Olimar's smash, even if it doesnt have any vertical reach.

Do all Pikmins fly the same distancfe in smash attacks?

 

[Blue Banana]

Do all Pikmins fly the same distancfe in smash attacks?

Purples go about half the distance the other colors go for Fsmash and Dsmash.

 

[Supersheikbros]

I main sheik and fox can someone help me on the olimar MU because I just can't get hits on them and he's frustrating af tbh. Any help is appreciated

 

[Angbad]

I main sheik and fox can someone help me on the olimar MU because I just can't get hits on them and he's frustrating af tbh. Any help is appreciated

Sheik is probably one of Olimar's worst MU's lol.

Fox needs to be good. Know all your follow ups and how to get kills and you're solid. Reflecting a smash at ~40% will kill us.

 

[Gidy]

What exactly is Olimar weak against? I played Mario and Shulk at a tournament and could not seem to get in at all.

 

[Ridel]

What exactly is Olimar weak against? I played Mario and Shulk at a tournament and could not seem to get in at all.

His air game is not that great and he has trouble getting back to the ground so its easy to juggle him. His Pikmin also have zero priority as Mario's N-Air can out prioritize a Purple U-Smash, its kind of stupind when you think about it.

 

[Myran]

Fast/lagless characters and reflectors are his biggest issue. Reason why characters like Sheik, Sonic, Mario, and Diddy give him issues.

 

[Copernicus]

How do you get up from the ledge against fast characters? Recently I played against a Wario who could punish me for almost every get up. For normal, attack and roll get up, he could down smash them and when I jumped he could zone me again with up air. And in general against fast characters it seems as they could punish every get up.

 

[Myran]

How do you get up from the ledge against fast characters? Recently I played against a Wario who could punish me for almost every get up. For normal, attack and roll get up, he could down smash them and when I jumped he could zone me again with up air. And in general against fast characters it seems as they could punish every get up.

Mix up your different ledge options. Alternatively you could drop from the ledge then use an attack like purple side-b, fair, or up-b into nair.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Hello Olimar mains!
I am making a character guide and was wondering what are Olimar's best and worst stages?
Also, if I'm correct, 1211 and 1311 are the best custom movesets?
All feedback is welcome, thank you in advance

 

[Myran]

Best stages are ones with big blastzones imo, I prefer FD and DH for most characters. As for customs I don't like any. Speaking of guides I should get on updating mine.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Best stages are ones with big blastzones imo, I prefer FD and DH for most characters. As for customs I don't like any. Speaking of guides I should get on updating mine.

Thank you!
I'd say maybe Delfino Plaza is the worst or least preferred Olimar stage?

 

[Myran]

Thank you!
I'd say maybe Delfino Plaza is the worst or least preferred Olimar stage?

Ehh that's MU dependent imo, a lot more times I'll band halberd instead of Delfino vs a character that kills off the top like Diddy. I do both sometimes, but Delfino gives you a bit more flexibility. For an overall worst one I'd probably say Siege. I'm not a fan of the first and third transformations that much.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Ehh that's MU dependent imo, a lot more times I'll band halberd instead of Delfino vs a character that kills off the top like Diddy. I do both sometimes, but Delfino gives you a bit more flexibility. For an overall worst one I'd probably say Siege. I'm not a fan of the first and third transformations that much.

I understand, this guide is extremely generalized and matchups aren't really being elaborated for each character.
This was really helpful though thank you!
And thank you for the work you have done on Olimar, your guide really helped me out and made Olimar a lot more fun for me

 

[Myran]

I understand, this guide is extremely generalized and matchups aren't really being elaborated for each character.
This was really helpful though thank you!
And thank you for the work you have done on Olimar, your guide really helped me out and made Olimar a lot more fun for me

Oh you! I'm glad it helped you out. Yeah my guide is more of a general overview of Olimar. Whenever I update it I'm gonna do a nice overhaul. Probably gonna update tooltips for each thing with new uses. Also gonna go into offensive and defensive Olimar, as well as how to adequately filter/manage Pikmin.

 

[Blue Banana]

What are my options when an opponent approaches with a short hop or a full jump? I think I know my options for grounded approaches, but I don't know how to respond to an empty full hop or a SH aerial.

 

[Myran]

What are my options when an opponent approaches with a short hop or a full jump? I think I know my options for grounded approaches, but I don't know how to respond to an empty full hop or a SH aerial.

You could try pivoting back with a move, or shielding there attack into an attack of your own.

 

[tenshinoakuma]

Hello Olimar mains! While I'm not an Olimar player, I have a friend who sometimes plays Olimar and spams Pikmin Throw, which I can punish but usually results in having a bunch of Pikmin whacking me with their tiny stubby heads, so it's a pretty poor trade.

Other than "don't be in range of Pikmin Throw", is there a way to prevent the Pikmin from sticking on to you? When I shield, the Pikmin seem to stick to me when I drop shield afterwards, and I wasn't able to hit the Pikmin out of the air when they're thrown (though that could just be me whiffing it) :/a

 

[Blue Banana]

Hello Olimar mains! While I'm not an Olimar player, I have a friend who sometimes plays Olimar and spams Pikmin Throw, which I can punish but usually results in having a bunch of Pikmin whacking me with their tiny stubby heads, so it's a pretty poor trade.

Other than "don't be in range of Pikmin Throw", is there a way to prevent the Pikmin from sticking on to you? When I shield, the Pikmin seem to stick to me when I drop shield afterwards, and I wasn't able to hit the Pikmin out of the air when they're thrown (though that could just be me whiffing it) :/a

As far as I know, Pikmin thrown by side B should pass through shields except for purples.

Avoiding Pikmin latching onto you is difficult, so it tends to be inevitable to have at least one Pikmin tacking on damage on you during the whole match. Attacks that cover the whole body or a significant part of the body can usually shake off or kill Pikmin latched onto you.

 

[Myran]

Pikmin Throw can shield poke.

 

[MioTinto]

As a Dedede/Jigglypuff main, how can I deal with Olimar? Both these characters rely on close range combat, but Olimar keeps pushing me away with his Pikmin, giving me few other options than Gordo Throw/Rollout, both of which are unsafe to use. I know the basic differences between Pikmin and how to know which one he's going to use next, but how exactly can I take advantage of it?

 

[Blue Banana]

As a Dedede/Jigglypuff main, how can I deal with Olimar? Both these characters rely on close range combat, but Olimar keeps pushing me away with his Pikmin, giving me few other options than Gordo Throw/Rollout, both of which are unsafe to use. I know the basic differences between Pikmin and how to know which one he's going to use next, but how exactly can I take advantage of it?

Jigglypuff's aerials and Pound outprioritize smashes and purple Pikmin Throw, so approaching with SH aerials may be a good option considering that and that the hitboxes linger for a long time. For Dedede, you're going to need to shield smashes and purples and try to keep close to Olimar as long as possible. Fastfall Nair is a good approach option considering your size and the low endlag. Gordos at long distances are not a good idea since Oli can just smack them away with Fsmash or purples or just stop their momentum (but not their hitboxes) by throwing Pikmin at them.

As far as what Pikmin Olimar has for his next attack and what you can do, you want to keep in mind which options Oli has that can be the most dangerous for each color and prepare accordingly. For example, you can generally expect Olimar to use Pikmin Throw if he has a white on point and you're at a far distance, so try to knock the Pikmin off while watching Olimar is doing (is he approaching or staying back?). If he has a purple next in line, be mindful about a fairly quick projectile with Pikmin Throw as cover for retreat or an approach or a potentially early KO with Usmash or Fsmash.

 

[super_jogurt]

I'm curious if we have any kind of confirmation that this pikmin "desync" is really functioning as intended and not a glitch? Olimar is one of my faves, both the character and his moveset - but the fact that you can lose half of your moves at random seems pretty insane.

But I guess having several patches without touching this disability is as much a confirmation as anything that this is working as designed? Dag, yo. I love Olimar.

 

[koken]

I'm curious if we have any kind of confirmation that this pikmin "desync" is really functioning as intended and not a glitch? Olimar is one of my faves, both the character and his moveset - but the fact that you can lose half of your moves at random seems pretty insane.

But I guess having several patches without touching this disability is as much a confirmation as anything that this is working as designed? Dag, yo. I love Olimar.

I'm very sorry to say this but I believe that: No one cares because isn't popular, we don't make noise and any other player would say its not important or say that other characters needs a fix before we do.

So answering your question, no way that our "desync" is a glitch. For the wii U I mean, maybe the N3DS it has a hardware issue.

As a programmer, I think fixing that issue is quite simple but it would take some time to re-think the actual code and that's something hard to accomplish.

I do believe it is in the "agenda" but it has no priority or it has the last priority u_u ...

Edit 1: In fact, the best way to prove my point are:

• Utilt and Nair are the same.
• Is the ONLY character who can fail his attacks because "one part" of his body "isn't there" (Every move using Pikmin can fail just because the Pikmin isn't near to Olimar/Alph).
• Our super-armor was nerfed a lot.

... so yes, I do believe they don't care about us .

 

[Myran]

Desync's are most likely just a result of how Pikmin are programmed. They happened in Brawl as well. As long as you pay attention to your movement, and know how Pikmin work as a whole you can avoid them messing you up quite a bit.

 

[de5picable]

What is your favorite Olimar/Alph color?

 

[Ridel]

What is your favorite Olimar/Alph color?

I really like his purple alt in PM but other then that I would say default or red.

 

[Freezie KO]

What is your favorite Olimar/Alph color?

I use red and black Olimar. Especially with his pose, he looks like a cute little fascist with his army marching behind him. I dunno, I think it's funny.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Does the flowers blooming on the Pikmin happen on 3DS, and does it affect gameplay very much? (other than hurtboxes. Wait, does it even affect those?)

 

[koken]

Does the flowers blooming on the Pikmin happen on 3DS, and does it affect gameplay very much? (other than hurtboxes. Wait, does it even affect those?)

As far as I know; no and no.

 

[Blue Banana]

I made some personal notes on what I think I should be generally doing in a game.

start of battle/neutral

• throw pikmin
• stuff projectiles w/ pikmin, (power)shield otherwise
• * watch for defensive reactions w/ latched pikmin, punish if possible
• watch for approaches (jumping? dashing? irregular movement?)
• * throw less once opponent reaches mid-range (due to dash attacks)
• cycle out for certain colors if necessary/preferred
• take control of center stage asap; avoid ledges

midrange

• fsmash or purple sideB often if no threat of reflector; use wisely otherwise
• * watch for dash grabs or dash attacks (luigi, falcon, etc...)
• * retreating pivot grabs (not w/ purples)
• reset to neutral if space is made
• * watch for short hops/full hops
• be wary of dashing tether grabs; punish if possible
• * catch approaching rolls with dsmash or pivots

close range

• create space as quickly as possible; reset to midrange/neutral
• opponent's options
  • fast, lagless reflector? -- play safe w/ jabs and tilts
  • * fast frame data? -- play defensively and observe opponent's behavior (roll after every attack? spot dodge? continuous attacking?)
    • powershield is important
    • *** (Dr.) Mario? -- ???
  • * short hop aerials/tomahawks? -- ???
  • punish-based characters? -- play cautiously and wait for unsafe moves
• * go for grabs if safe; highly punishable if whiffed
  • make sure to give a bit of space; grabs can whiff up-close

dthrow combos/strings

• what is opponent's percentage/weight/size/fall speed?
• in general:
  • dthrow -> fair @ low percents w/ all colors, mid percents w/ all non-blues, high-mid w/ reds
  • dthrow -> uair w/ same percents as fair, use if opponent DI's upward
    • can catch a second uair if opponent is fast faller or tries to throw out a slow aerial
  • dthrow w/ non-blue @ high-mid percents -> purple uair can potentially KO if opponent airdodges and doesn't DI too far away
  • * dthrow -> usmash @ low percents w/ non-reds, dependent on fall speed, size, and combo-breaking nairs, a bit unreliable
  • dthrow -> fsmash @ low percents on fastfallers
    
    • * dthrow -> dtilt -> jab1, jab2 -> grab works on specific fastfallers @ specific percents
  • watch for combo-breaking nairs
    • dthrow -> dash under opponent, if opponent nairs down, jab -> grab -> same situation

opponent lies on ground

• is opponent near the ledge? -- rolling away becomes a weaker option
• observe opponent's action and position on stage
  • * roll away? -- catch w/ white sideB or grab if safe and close enough, or reset to neutral
  • getup attack? -- (power)shield and grab/jab
  • roll forward? -- stay put or pivot and smash/jab -> grab/etc.
  • * stand up? -- if dashing in, shield or spotdodge; otherwise reset to midrange

edgeguarding

• opponent's recovery is linear (i.e. ganondorf, falcon) -- gimp if possible w/ purple sideB
• yellow dsmash/dair if opponent is recovering below
• ** opponent grabs ledge:
  • stand a little short distance away from ledge (close enough to get hit by getup attack)
  • standard getup -- fsmash
  • roll in -- dsmash or pivot attack
  • getup attack -- powershield and attack
  • drop off, double jump aerial -- (power)shield, dsmash if opponent grabs ledge again, apply close range/midrange if opponent onstage
  • jump -- (purple) uair

juggled in the air

• * don't try to throw out aerials if unsafe
• ** use upB wisely
  • practice auto-cancelling nair
• watch the opponent
• opponent is below you:
  • multihit aerials (3 or more hits)? -- don't use whistle in general
  • uair? -- whistle or airdodge
  • usmash -- upB or whistle
• no action by opponent, midrange? -- watch for dash grabs/dash attacks, apply midrange combat

offstage

• throw pikmin
  • * opponent shields sideB -- ???
• what are the opponent's edgeguarding options?
• how many pikmin in line?
  • >=2, purple in line: conserve purple if possible, throw pikmin on stage
  • 1, upB from very low becomes option
• upB below stage
  • ride the stage underside if possible, tech any stage spike attempts
  • watch for opponent dairs
• upB above stage
  • * practice auto-cancel nair
  • don't use if opponent can cover above well
• upB at stage level: don't.

pikmin

• * learn to have at least one pikmin in line
• avoid ledges: messes up AI
• >3 pikmin: pluck when safe
• pluck has generous IASA frames, make use of it
• colors:
  • red:
    • keep them around for stuffing fireballs/explosive projectiles
    • all rounder: dthrow combo starter all the way up to mid-high percents, good damage for fsmash at midrange, serves as KO option for fsmash/usmash w/ no range problem unlike purples
  • yellow:
    • keep them around for thunder jolts/blue robot fsmashes/charge shots
    • easier to combo off of dthrow @ mid percents, larger hitboxes allow more leniency for dsmash edgeguarding/dair spikes
  • blue:
    • immunity to water-based attacks/drowning can help with water shuriken/delfino but isn't too helpful otherwise
    • usually can take one more hit than reds/yellows
    • bthrow for 14% fresh once opponent's at mid-low percentages, conserve uthrow until opponent hits ~150% (lowers w/ more rage)
  • white:
    • dies usually in one hit; make sure the opponent is in a position to be forced to take sideB damage
    • * larger grab range can allow for potential jab -> grab combos or grabbing hanging opponent from ledge more safely
  • purple:
    • ** GET ONE ASAP
    • stuffs most weak projectiles w/ sideB while keeping hitbox intact
    • use sideB a lot at midrange if 2 purples in line
    • sideB on lying opponents can force another "opponent lying on ground" situation or catch tech rolls
    • try to identify the opponent's defensive behavior first before going for smashes
    • 2 purples is very useful, but 3 is dependent on whether knockback is worth over range and potential damage from whites
    • GET ONE ASAP

stages

• battlefield: ok, avoid if opponent benefits from platforms a lot
• final destination: ok, prepare for a long fight if opponent is also defensive
• smashville: ok, but might want to strike if best neutral for opponent (also played waaaaaayyy too much)

• delfino: no, walkoffs, water, and irregular layouts mess me up too much
• lylat: no, too small, tilting and natural layout of stage messes up sideB
• town and city: ok, long main platforms and not too obtrusive platforms unlike battlefield; be wary of stage transitions and retreating platforms
• duck hunt: probably ok, depends if trees benefit opponent, dog platform can mess up neutral/midrange, otherwise same as fd, ducks can extend purple sideB hitlag
• * castle siege: leaning towards no, 1st stage has qualities of lylat, 2nd w/ delfino walkoffs, 3rd is basically tilting fd; be wary of walkoff KOs during stage transitions
• halberd: no, too small in terms of stage and blast zones, though deck is somewhat better for neutral

• dream land 64: probably ok, though may need to get used to wind first
• kongo jungle 64: ???, top platforms might encourage opponents to run away if they get the stock lead
• skyloft: ???, no experience yet

• omega lost world: no, people have ruined "Escape from the City" for me

Asterisks denote what I'm trying to improve on right now. Is there anything I should add/change in my notes?

 

[koken]

Good work @ Blue Banana , I struggle with almost everything you posted.
If I may suggest something else it would be: patience and deep breath.

Last night training against a Peach, I can't remember how many times she killed me just because I was impatient for trying to hit her first, her Fair is longer than ours and I was stubborn about it.
When I was patience, my gameplay got better significantly. I took advantage of the game and defeat her.

 

[MintChipper]

What is this down b mechanic that has something to do with momentum? and do moves using Purple Pikmin have more lag?

 

[Myran]

What is this down b mechanic that has something to do with momentum? and do moves using Purple Pikmin have more lag?

Down-b doesn't do anything with momentum. In Brawl you were able to b-reverse/wavebounce with the whistle to shift momentum when falling, but it doesn't work anymore though. You can do it with neutral b though. As for Purples having more lag do you mean ending lag for the Olimar or more hitlag on the opponents shield?

 

[MintChipper]

Down-b doesn't do anything with momentum. In Brawl you were able to b-reverse/wavebounce with the whistle to shift momentum when falling, but it doesn't work anymore though. You can do it with neutral b though. As for Purples having more lag do you mean ending lag for the Olimar or more hitlag on the opponents shield?

Thank you, I meant ending lag for Olimar.