Official Wolf matchup stage tier list.

[Seagull Joe]

This thread is the thread that I'd like to use specifically for matchup stage tier list. This will describe each matchup and categorize tier lists based on matchups. 37 tier lists in total. Matchups will go in order. I'll edit OP with opinions people agree on and sounds accurate.

Discussion 1: Metaknight.

My tier list opinion for Mk in order is:
Fd
YI
Lylat
Smashville
Ps1
Castle Siege
Halberd
Delfino
Battlefield
Frigate
Pictochat
Ps2
Norfair
Green greens
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar

Discussion 2: Snake

Brinstar (Snake just is so bad here)
Rainbow Cruise
Norfair
FD
Smashville
Frigate (Snake isn't good here, but I still don't like Frigate)
Battlefield
Lylat
Delfino
YI
Pictochat
Ps1
Halberd
Ps2
Green greens
Castle Siege

 

[.AC.]

im 100% sure battlefield is the best stage against mk

 

[castorpollux]

im 100% sure battlefield is the best stage against mk

i actually do best vs mks on fd too but please enlighten us O_O

 

[.AC.]

platforms allow for pretty much a way out of everything and give you more options on recovery. the top platform allows for early kills upon hitting with usmash or fair. platforms aren't as obstructive yet they are easy to abuse due to mobility. these are just of the top of my head and i have a hard time explaining things =P

 

[_Kain_]

platforms allow for pretty much a way out of everything and give you more options on recovery. the top platform allows for early kills upon hitting with usmash or fair. platforms aren't as obstructive yet they are easy to abuse due to mobility. these are just of the top of my head and i have a hard time explaining things =P

platforms make it easier for MK to uair, nado, shuttle loop, and many other moves to poke your shield from below, seeing as how wolf has no real good options for people below either, i wud say the platforms aren't a real plus even for recovery seeing as how MK should still b able to cover those options. This is why I never go to BF against MK or try my best not to at least.

oh yea and easier to avoid wolfs already slow blaster, so it covers up MK's poor aerial mobility and easier for him to find a way to approach

 

[.AC.]

those things shouldn't be working unless you position yourself improperly or you find yourself at a frequent loss for ground. wolf has enough mobility to avoid such things with ease. it is actually possible for you to bait such actions so that you can find yourself in a better position fit for reads and mix ups.

 

[_Kain_]

those things shouldn't be working unless you position yourself improperly or you find yourself at a frequent loss for ground. wolf has enough mobility to avoid such things with ease. it is actually possible for you to bait such actions so that you can find yourself in a better position fit for reads and mix ups.

Yes true but its MK n the reason he is so good is cause he has the ability to put chars in positions like that very easily. And on this stage I feel it works in his favor. What do you do to cover this up tho?

 

[.AC.]

you anticipate it, it's kind of obvious what they are going to do after all, wolf has an easier time avoiding such things, even more so than other high tiers. tornado can be shined on reaction and you can just jump away upon anticipating an uair. i don't really like theorizing much about this sort of things and it may seem really stupid at first, but it leaves A LOT of space for human error, which cant be explained on theory alone.

 

[M.C. Pee-Pants]

I gotta agree fd is a good stage would smashville be the second best stage next to fd since it only has that moving platform?

 

[xX'Mitsurugi'Xx]

I agree that FD is one of the better stages to take MK, but at the same time, I can level with .AC. Many times I've taken MK to BF with the intentions of platform camping. It's important to remember that the whole point is to make your opponent scared of being shine blocked in the air. Your trying to make your opponent believe his air game isn't working, if done correctly he'll be less inclined to try anything to risky for fear of being shine blocked. If timed correctly there's really no penalty if they dodge your shine in the air. This coupled with a an agonizing laser camp fest and nicely spaced retreating F-air game makes it seem alot more maintainable. After all Wolf F-air > MK F-air.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Mk shield>Wolf fair because of Shuttle loop out of shield. That's why last hit last percent matches are risky as hell for Wolf because nothing is safe. Wolf will die from SL out of shield around 160% with good Di.

 

[castorpollux]

Mk shield>Wolf fair because of Shuttle loop out of shield. That's why last hit last percent matches are risky as hell for Wolf because nothing is safe. Wolf will die from SL out of shield around 160% with good Di.

wolf shield > mk fair

FOR TEH SAME EXACT REASON

 

[Seagull Joe]

But if I have higher percent vs a campy Mk, then why would they approach me? They just camp. Sure we can laser camp, but if my percent is at least 30-40% higher and we both can kill each other then the Mk will just camp.

I can't kill Mk with blaster (Can gimp characters with it, but not Mk).

What do I do then if he is actively camping with less percent on the ground? My options are limited at this point and I'd like to know what to do. I'm not theorycrafting since this is the thing I have encountered before that is necessary to me to win when it's high percent last stock both people matches.

 

[Goldenadept]

you could always try and bait the SL, if the MK is also within kill range and scared of taking a shine or lagless fair from you, its always near the end of a match that the biggest mistakes can be made

 

[castorpollux]

But if I have higher percent vs a campy Mk, then why would they approach me? They just camp. Sure we can laser camp, but if my percent is at least 30-40% higher and we both can kill each other then the Mk will just camp.

I can't kill Mk with blaster (Can gimp characters with it, but not Mk).

What do I do then if he is actively camping with less percent on the ground? My options are limited at this point and I'd like to know what to do. I'm not theorycrafting since this is the thing I have encountered before that is necessary to me to win when it's high percent last stock both people matches.

best thing to do honestly is to walk to him slowly and hopefully get a reaction out of him

 

[Ishiey]

What JJ said. Hopefully you've got faster reaction time :x Shuttle loop OoS is a ****

 

[Seagull Joe]

best thing to do honestly is to walk to him slowly and hopefully get a reaction out of him

I'll try this. Thanks JJ.

What JJ said. Hopefully you've got faster reaction time :x Shuttle loop OoS is a ****

I have fast reaction time, but what frame does SL OoS come out on?

 

[Ishiey]

If done perfectly (input the frame right after the jump), hits on frame 9, invincibility for frames 6-9.

 

[.AC.]

also take in to account people are more likely to be more conservative at higher %s, meaning some options become better. you can get people to react just by being near them, although the easier answer is just to not fall behind.

 

[PMC66]

where's Jungle Japes in your list?

I feel tempted to say that would be a good stage. but MK would be able to stall like nobodys business.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Japes isn't legal anywhere I am so I don't include it.

 

[castorpollux]

BAN JJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!a

 

[Choice]

i think yoshi's and lylat should be higher. I think in general they're good stages vs mk caz it messes up the lagless tornado.

 

[xX'Mitsurugi'Xx]

i think yoshi's and lylat should be higher. I think in general they're good stages vs mk caz it messes up the lagless tornado.

^True facts.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Ok lets move onto Snake then.

I'll move YI and Lylat higher for Mk.

Snake stages:
Brinstar (Snake just is so bad here)
Rainbow Cruise
Norfair
FD
Smashville
Frigate (Snake isn't good here, but I still don't like Frigate)
Battlefield
Lylat
Delfino
YI
Pictochat
Ps1
Halberd
Ps2
Green greens
Castle Siege

I find it convenient Snake's worst stages are Mk's best and Wolf's probably best to verse him.

 

[Ishiey]

+1 for Snake being horrendous on Brinstar and striking FD/SV against MK.

 

[Tekk001]

New Wolf main here. I actually have never posted on the Wolf boards but i really like this thread. Having used snake for a long time i'd say any stage that forces him to recover to the stage with little options is best. Stages like BF, Yoshis etc. I don't really like big stages like Pokemon Stadium. What stages would you guys say is good for Diddy and DDD?

 

[Choice]

you have a strange understanding of snake. i disagree with like most of that.

 

[castorpollux]

umm snake is amazing on frigate

 

[_Kain_]

snake isn't amazing on Brinstar but he's not that bad either. neither is wolf so it even's out n Snake gets the adv due to low roof sooo...

 

[Tekk001]

Well Snake's generally take the most damage and are the most vulnerable while recovering because of his recovery options. Also, Wolf is good at, at least I am, hitting Snake without blowing up grenades. Here's a video of Squirtle taking advantage of just what im trying to convey. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u_u2PPHD6M

It's not Wolf, but using this logic, I would take Snakes's to BF or Yoshies. Also I wouldn't take them to Frigate or even Brinstar, Brinstar doesn't quite make sense to me.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Wolf is evenish with Snake on most stages, which is why it's hard for me to get a tier of stages. Post your own opinions.

 

[Tekk001]

I agree that Snake is somewhat of an even MU, still in Snakes favor, and that the stage doesn't quite heavily favor either character, except for Halberd, but i will say that with regards to stages it really depends on your playing style and where you feel most comfortable. I'm taking this straight from the mind of Seibrik when i say this, and I totally agree with it. In this specific MU where its considered even for the most part, picking a stage you feel comfortable on and like is more important than trying to pick a stage that is disadvantageous for the Snake IMO.

 

[Semifer]

Why is Castle Siege so bad in this MU? Why PS2 that bad?

And personally, I feel most comfortable on BF from all starter stages... Why do you think it's the worst starter in the MU?

 

[Tekk001]

Castle Siege I think goes to Snake for his camping, and PS2 idk, I think wolf can be good there but i dont play that stage often. I dont know how the physics of that stage affects Wolf. Like can you still punish Snakes ftilt with wolfs fsmash on the ice part? I have no idea.

And yea BF is a good starter stage.

 

[castorpollux]

i think stage choices are seriously a personal opinion. there is no best stage or worst stage for wolf. it's really your own preference

 

[Deleted member]

How is Snake on Norfair? I've never fought one there, but I love the stage in general.

 

[Ishiey]

Agreed with JJ for the most part. Wolf's best stage is the opponent's worst stage for most matchups.

@ Kain: Wolf on Brinstar is basically just being a **** and not letting Snake touch the ground without getting punished from my experience... idk, it always goes well for me, lots of juggling and good stuff.

 

[DarkLouis331]

I wouldn't say Snake is bad on Frigate. He doesn't need the ledges to grab to get back on stage. He can just pull out a nade/b-reverse and land with no lag.

I definitely wouldn't take Snake to Frigate as Wolf. Though I'm sure you won't be seeing that stage much in this matchup.

 

[Tekk001]

As Snake i would consider taking Wolf to Frigate. As for Norfair, I wouldn't go there as wolf. While your recovery options are a lot better there, it's very difficult to fight a snake who camps really hard.