Official Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Villager

[Indigo Jeans]

Yep, 50% HP compared to standard's 30 and counter's 15. Though like you said, the tree has the shortest duration out of all the variations, inexplicably so

 

[Andrew_Ryan]

I'm not sure how the voting works, but I looked through the list and 1312 is what I vote for. It's currently the set I'm entering tourneys with. I've won 1 local out of 1 so far, I'm going to a few big ones soon, I'll let you know results. But overall, 1312 is very solid.

 

[John12346]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
1122 1322 2322 1312 3322 2122 1121 1311 1323 1313

I pretty much ripped these sets right out of that poll you guys held for the preferred custom sets for Villagers. I'm sure the poll is reliable, but... just double check these to make sure they're what you want, okay?

Spoiler: Notes taken during preliminary creation of sets

Villager:
Voting Results of: http://smashboards.com/threads/voti...villager-custom-sets-pick-10-not-3-xp.392893/
1122 1322 2322 1312 3322 2122 1121 1311 1323 1313
Note: That poll was weird. Are you 100% okay with these sets?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Where was this message copied from

 

[John12346]

I mean, I made the message up basically as a template, it doesn't really exist anywhere. Me and AmazingAmpharos used it to deliver the message to each character board's custom discussion thread.

This is what it looked like, and we filled in the gaps appropriately:

Spoiler

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
AAAA BBBB CCCC DDDD EEEE FFFF GGGG HHHH IIII JJJJ

- add in any extra notes or concerns you may have here -

Spoiler: Notes taken during preliminary creation of sets

Only I used this spoiler tag for my posts, AmazingAmpharos did not.

 

[SoniCraft]

I don't think we need two Super Timber sets, but everything else looks great to me!

 

[Pepperz]

Is it possible to one chop the super timber like default? If so, default tree may be obsolete.

 

[Sonsa]

Is it possible to one chop the super timber like default? If so, default tree may be obsolete.

The timing is even stricter due to the axe's longer start-up. To do the one chop you need to hit a certain spot by getting Villager really close to the tree, but with Super Timber...it can probably be done, but the axe start-up requires you to sorta start and then really try to gravitate towards the tree? I don't see how you could do this technique grounded, you would just get pushed back.

 

[Antonykun]

As far as essential sets go i know for a fact 1/2,1, 2, 2 are Villy's best sets but there shuould be representation for all of her customs as they are all useful in their own way (maybe not Balloon Jump? I doubt it doesn't have unexplored applications tho)

 

[Kofu]

As far as essential sets go i know for a fact 1/2,1, 2, 2 are Villy's best sets but there shuould be representation for all of her customs as they are all useful in their own way (maybe not Balloon Jump? I doubt it doesn't have unexplored applications tho)

Balloon High Jump has a hitbox the whole way up (10% at the beginning, 6% later), travels a lot of distance very quickly, and I believe it sweetspots the ledge almost instantly. In a lot of ways its analogous to Game & Watch's default Up-B except it goes farther and puts Villager into free fall (and lacks invincibility but I'm not sure how much Fire has in this game). Extreme Balloon Trip is an absurdly gimp-safe recovery but it's weaker if you're forced to detonate the balloons to recover. BHJ doesn't have the flexibility the other two recoveries have but I could see it being one of the more reliable options in certain MUs. I don't think it's a bad move at all.

 

[Makai Wars]

The thing about Villager is that s/he has customs that can take on any opponent, and it's just a matter of picking the right set to cover whatever Villager's weakness is.
For example, if we're fighting Shiek, we'd wanna pack Garden and Balloon High Jump (so, 2332) to make us unsuspectable to that Bair while recovering and to give Pocket some use in this MU, however if we're going against, say, Mario or DDD, we'd want standard Pocket and Extreme Balloon Trip to deal with any projectiles and stay safe offstage.

My sets are
1322
1122
1321
2332

 

[SoniCraft]

I wouldn't mind a high balloon jump set myself, but the question is: Do we have room?

 

[PacMain92201]

I definitely think standard timber was overlooked. We all know the versatility of this move and I think everyone should consider it as well. It's being completely overshadowed by timber counter which is amazing as to the point where people are actually considering banning it. Although we seem to be ignoring the cons of timber counter. Growth tree and axe are no longer kill options. Watering can is worse for movement options. Also, is garden plus standard timber a bad combo? I don't see it in anyone of the sets and I'm curious about the reasoning for that. If we do consider a garden plus standard timber set then perhaps it should be 2321 or 2121. Depending on whether everyone prefers standard or pushy lloid.

I wouldn't mind a high balloon jump set myself, but the question is: Do we have room?

Yeah one HJB set would be nice I suppose since it may provide some unexpected use. Unfortunately this is a downside to having so many good customs; the amount of room. For doubles, we should only have one super timber set since there is so much more room for others. Maybe 1313 since friendly fire is on EBT may affect your partner when you are recovering. I've seen the balloons explode even when you grab the ledge and they drift away.

 

[SoniCraft]

Well if we're gonna come up with answers, we'll need to quickly for EVO's sake. I'll check the poll thread real quick and then come back and edit this with the most popular sets, and we'll go from there...

EDIT: OKAY, here are the top ten results!(As of 3/12/15)

1122 (8 votes)
1322 (8 votes)
2322 (6 votes)
1312 (4 votes)
3322 (4 votes; Anti-Ness)
1313 (3 votes; Doubles)
1323 (3 votes; Doubles)
2122 (3 votes)
1121 (3 votes)
1311 (3 votes)

So for EVO's sake, we can boot both the doubles sets and replace them with other sets. How about one with HBJ(with Sheik in mind, I would say either 1332 or 2332), and another with standard timber, like 1321 or 2121.

Input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[PacMain92201]

Well if we're gonna come up with answers, we'll need to quickly for EVO's sake. I'll check the poll thread real quick and then come back and edit this with the most popular sets, and we'll go from there...

EDIT: OKAY, here are the top ten results!(As of 3/12/15)

1122 (8 votes)
1322 (8 votes)
2322 (6 votes)
1312 (4 votes)
3322 (4 votes; Anti-Ness)
1313 (3 votes; Doubles)
1323 (3 votes; Doubles)
2122 (3 votes)
1121 (3 votes)
1311 (3 votes)

So for EVO's sake, we can boot both the doubles sets and replace them with other sets. How about one with HBJ(with Sheik in mind, I would say either 1332 or 2332), and another with standard timber, like 1321 or 2121.

Input would be greatly appreciated!

For me, I actually prefer standard lloid over pushy lloid for the distance so I say 2121 is a good set with the garden, standard timber, standard lloid, and EBT

 

[COLINBG]

I'll give my opinions on each custom, and propose sets I feel like are the most viable at the end.

1. Standard Special:

1.1. Pocket:
Villager's signature move, that's like a better reflector since you can choose when to send the projectile back. It's absolutely amazing against characters with good projectiles, since it renders them useless (as well as characters with items, like Diddy's banana or ROB's gyro) and gives you an additionnal kill move (the projectiles' power is boosted). It shuts down recoveries such as Wario's (he loses his horizontal recovery if you Pocket his bike), and Ness. Also a great option for landing, because you can reverse your position withouth losing momentum. Invincibilty frames can be useful in certain ways, too. So it's overall a really solid move. This is the one you should always go for.

1.2. Garden:
This move does damage, while the other two Pockets don't, so there's literally no reason not to use this against characters who lack projectiles, or who have really fast projectiles that you can't really take advantage of (mostly Fox, Sheik, Diddy). Otherwise, use the santard Pocket, because this one doesn't have added damage/knockback and is a little slower. The 11-26% the move does is somewhat useful, but I'd rather have a better Pocket.

1.3. Pocket Plus:
Literally only good against Ness. Since you can steal his recovery for a cheap (and hilarious) kill, the extra range is amazing. Yes, I know, you can still do it with the Pocket, but the extra range means that Ness is almost guaranteed to lose a stock as soon as he has to UpB and you're anywhere near the ledge. And the extra damage/KB on PK Fire/PK Thunder isn't too useful (except in doubles), so you don't really lose anything by going for this variant.

2. Side Special:

2.1. Lloid Rocket:
Again, I feel like the default is better in a lot of situations. It has nice KB when you ride it (but it's punishable so be careful), and the range/speed means it's a good spacing option in general.

2.2 Liftoff Lloid:
Bad. Absolutely no reason tu use it. You can't use it to zone as effectively as the standard Lloid, and you can't use to to recover. The only good thing it that it can hit people recovering high, but it's easy to dodge it. Don't use this move.

2.3. Pushy Lloid:
This is up to personnal preference. I like the standard Lloid better because it's faster and has more range, but this one can also be used. It's a nice get-off-me option because it caries the opponent away, but be aware it has starting lag (the rocket won't do anything the first few frames it is out).

3. Up Special:

3.1. Balloon Trip:
The best recovery in the game in terms of distance and control (Olimar's is up there arguably). It has no hitbox, so it's not too hard to gimp, but you can do cool stuff with it. It's not a bad recovery by any means, but it gets outclassed by the EBT.

3.2. Extreme Balloon Trip:
The best recovery in the game, period. It's a little slower than normal BT, but you can cover almost as much distance by releasing the balloons, with th elittle jump it gives you. This jump makes it harder to gimp you, because you gain a sudden boost upwards at the moment you want to. The ballons have an hitbox, which also facilitates not getting gimped. If you use it well, it can hit opponent who are waiting for you at the ledge. Though unsafe, it's an alternative to Uair, because you get reliable KB every single time (and I think a larger hitbox, not 100% sure), but it makes you go into free fall. This is the one you should use.

3.3 Balloon High Jump:
This one is bad. You have virtually no control over it, since it sens you straight up. Yes it's sudden and it goes high, but if you're far away from the stage, it's useless. If you're not directly under the stage, it forces you to recover with Lloid which is not always a good thing. If you're close to the side of the stage, you can recover with it , but it's super punishable. You could use this for Sheik I guess, as it catches her off guard if she wants to use her aerials, but otherwise it's meh. It's a good tool not the get gimped, but if you can't make it back to the stage, it doesn't matter if you get gimped or not. It does have an hitbox, but EBT's is better in my opininon.

4. Down Special:

4.1. Timber:
Good move. It has decent health so it can serve as a barrier between you and the other player. It has two potential KOing hitboxes in growing and falling, and the axe you get is like a weaker Fsmash with a bit more range, and that you can do in the air. Cool move, but, like Ballon Trip, it gets iutclassed by his second DownB.

4.2 Timber Counter:
One of Villager's best move, along with Pocket and EBT. It gets overlooked a lot, labelled as simply a ''banana that stays in place, and an inferior tree''. That's not true at all.

It is indeed similar to a banana, but a banana that renders a portion of the stage dangerous for the opponent for 15 seconds, provides safety for villager by simply standing on it while still letting you use all your A moves, and the opponent can't use it against you. Getting rushed down is Villager's main weakness. The simple fact that he can't get rushed down so easily now makes it a fantastic move.

The tree is good too, it still has KO potential, and the counter has pretty decent knockback. You can also snipe it with Fairs to hit someone who thinks he's safe near it because you're away. This basically means your slingshots have a bigger range with better knockback, and you gain access to an almost instant punish on about half of FD (the opponent doesn't even have to attack, just being there is punishable).

You lose you killing ability with the axe, which is a bummer, but Villager has no problem killing, so this souldn't be that much of a disadvantage.

The other bad thing about the move is that the tree has a relatively small health, so it can get destroyed easily. however, this means that the opponent will be baited a lot in attacking it. This can result in mindgames; if you plant a tree near the ledge, and you have to recover, the opponent has two options: killing the tree and letting you recover safely, or attempt to gimp you (which is already hard because of EBT), while letting you keep the tree. If he chooses the latter, it's also possible to send him away by Fair-ing the tree.

For these reasons, this is the move I'd choose.

4.3 Super Timber:
This one also depends on your playstyle, really. You lose the axe, and it is slower, but it's incredibly powerful and has a huge hitbox. So I would tie it with the standard Timber, or maybe put it slightly lower.

TL;DR:

Villager has a lot of options when it comes to custom. Some of these are better on paper, but it's up to you because they are almost all viable:

- Pocket: This is the one you want to go for in general.
- Garden: This is th eone you use against character with no projectiles.
- Pocket Plus: This is the one you use against Ness.

- Lloid Rocket: This is the one you want to go for in general.
- Liftoff Lloid: Don't use this one.
- Pushy Lloid: Alternative to the standars Lloid. Worse for zoning, but it's still a good move.

- Balloon Trip: Alternative to EBT. I would not use it, but you can.
- Extreme Balloon Trip: Amazing move, use this one. It's safe, and can damage. You don't really lose control or flight distance.
- Balloon High Jump: Don't use this one. Feel free to defend it, but I'm strongly against it.

- Timber: Good, but TC is better.
- Timber Counter: Amazing move, as you get safety, and a ridiculous stage control. This is the move that will make Villager top tier with customs, I believe.
- Super Timber: Meh.

Sets:

The general format you'll want is 1/2,1/3,2,2

The one I suggest and the one I'll be using the most is 1122.

If you face a Ness, you want to go with 3122.

If you face a characer without projectiles, you want 2122.

According to each player, you can replace the Lloid with the Pushy one, though, so X322 is also viable, depending on the situation.

OKAY, here are the top ten results!(As of 3/12/15)

1122 (8 votes)
1322 (8 votes)
2322 (6 votes)
1312 (4 votes)
3322 (4 votes; Anti-Ness)
1313 (3 votes; Doubles)
1323 (3 votes; Doubles)
2122 (3 votes)
1121 (3 votes)
1311 (3 votes)

I feel like this is a solid list overall. Could someone explain why choose the Pushy Lloid for the anti-Ness set? Is there a specific reason or is it simply what people prefer using?

 

[PacMain92201]

I'll give my opinions on each custom, and propose sets I feel like are the most viable at the end.

1. Standard Special:

1.1. Pocket:
Villager's signature move, that's like a better reflector since you can choose when to send the projectile back. It's absolutely amazing against characters with good projectiles, since it renders them useless (as well as characters with items, like Diddy's banana or ROB's gyro) and gives you an additionnal kill move (the projectiles' power is boosted). It shuts down recoveries such as Wario's (he loses his horizontal recovery if you Pocket his bike), and Ness. Also a great option for landing, because you can reverse your position withouth losing momentum. Invincibilty frames can be useful in certain ways, too. So it's overall a really solid move. This is the one you should always go for.

1.2. Garden:
This move does damage, while the other two Pockets don't, so there's literally no reason not to use this against characters who lack projectiles, or who have really fast projectiles that you can't really take advantage of (mostly Fox, Sheik, Diddy). Otherwise, use the santard Pocket, because this one doesn't have added damage/knockback and is a little slower. The 11-26% the move does is somewhat useful, but I'd rather have a better Pocket.
1.3. Pocket Plus:
Literally only good against Ness. Since you can steal his recovery for a cheap (and hilarious) kill, the extra range is amazing. Yes, I know, you can still do it with the Pocket, but the extra range means that Ness is almost guaranteed to lose a stock as soon as he has to UpB and you're anywhere near the ledge. And the extra damage/KB on PK Fire/PK Thunder isn't too useful (except in doubles), so you don't really lose anything by going for this variant.

2. Side Special:

2.1. Lloid Rocket:
Again, I feel like the default is better in a lot of situations. It has nice KB when you ride it (but it's punishable so be careful), and the range/speed means it's a good spacing option in general.
2.2 Liftoff Lloid:
Bad. Absolutely no reason tu use it. You can't use it to zone as effectively as the standard Lloid, and you can't use to to recover. The only good thing it that it can hit people recovering high, but it's easy to dodge it. Don't use this move.
2.3. Pushy Lloid:
This is up to personnal preference. I like the standard Lloid better because it's faster and has more range, but this one can also be used. It's a nice get-off-me option because it caries the opponent away, but be aware it has starting lag (the rocket won't do anything the first few frames it is out).

3. Up Special:

3.1. Balloon Trip:
The best recovery in the game in terms of distance and control (Olimar's is up there arguably). It has no hitbox, so it's not too hard to gimp, but you can do cool stuff with it. It's not a bad recovery by any means, but it gets outclassed by the EBT.

3.2. Extreme Balloon Trip:
The best recovery in the game, period. It's a little slower than normal BT, but you can cover almost as much distance by releasing the balloons, with th elittle jump it gives you. This jump makes it harder to gimp you, because you gain a sudden boost upwards at the moment you want to. The ballons have an hitbox, which also facilitates not getting gimped. If you use it well, it can hit opponent who are waiting for you at the ledge. Though unsafe, it's an alternative to Uair, because you get reliable KB every single time (and I think a larger hitbox, not 100% sure), but it makes you go into free fall. This is the one you should use.

3.3 Balloon High Jump:
This one is bad. You have virtually no control over it, since it sens you straight up. Yes it's sudden and it goes high, but if you're far away from the stage, it's useless. If you're not directly under the stage, it forces you to recover with Lloid which is not always a good thing. If you're close to the side of the stage, you can recover with it , but it's super punishable. You could use this for Sheik I guess, as it catches her off guard if she wants to use her aerials, but otherwise it's meh. It's a good tool not the get gimped, but if you can't make it back to the stage, it doesn't matter if you get gimped or not. It does have an hitbox, but EBT's is better in my opininon.
4. Down Special:

4.1. Timber:
Good move. It has decent health so it can serve as a barrier between you and the other player. It has two potential KOing hitboxes in growing and falling, and the axe you get is like a weaker Fsmash with a bit more range, and that you can do in the air. Cool move, but, like Ballon Trip, it gets iutclassed by his second DownB.
4.2 Timber Counter:
One of Villager's best move, along with Pocket and EBT. It gets overlooked a lot, labelled as simply a ''banana that stays in place, and an inferior tree''. That's not true at all.

It is indeed similar to a banana, but a banana that renders a portion of the stage dangerous for the opponent for 15 seconds, provides safety for villager by simply standing on it while still letting you use all your A moves, and the opponent can't use it against you. Getting rushed down is Villager's main weakness. The simple fact that he can't get rushed down so easily now makes it a fantastic move.

The tree is good too, it still has KO potential, and the counter has pretty decent knockback. You can also snipe it with Fairs to hit someone who thinks he's safe near it because you're away. This basically means your slingshots have a bigger range with better knockback, and you gain access to an almost instant punish on about half of FD (the opponent doesn't even have to attack, just being there is punishable).

You lose you killing ability with the axe, which is a bummer, but Villager has no problem killing, so this souldn't be that much of a disadvantage.

The other bad thing about the move is that the tree has a relatively small health, so it can get destroyed easily. however, this means that the opponent will be baited a lot in attacking it. This can result in mindgames; if you plant a tree near the ledge, and you have to recover, the opponent has two options: killing the tree and letting you recover safely, or attempt to gimp you (which is already hard because of EBT), while letting you keep the tree. If he chooses the latter, it's also possible to send him away by Fair-ing the tree.

For these reasons, this is the move I'd choose.

4.3 Super Timber:
This one also depends on your playstyle, really. You lose the axe, and it is slower, but it's incredibly powerful and has a huge hitbox. So I would tie it with the standard Timber, or maybe put it slightly lower.

TL;DR:

Villager has a lot of options when it comes to custom. Some of these are better on paper, but it's up to you because they are almost all viable:

- Pocket: This is the one you want to go for in general.
- Garden: This is th eone you use against character with no projectiles.
- Pocket Plus: This is the one you use against Ness.

- Lloid Rocket: This is the one you want to go for in general.
- Liftoff Lloid: Don't use this one.
- Pushy Lloid: Alternative to the standars Lloid. Worse for zoning, but it's still a good move.

- Balloon Trip: Alternative to EBT. I would not use it, but you can.
- Extreme Balloon Trip: Amazing move, use this one. It's safe, and can damage. You don't really lose control or flight distance.
- Balloon High Jump: Don't use this one. Feel free to defend it, but I'm strongly against it.

- Timber: Good, but TC is better.
- Timber Counter: Amazing move, as you get safety, and a ridiculous stage control. This is the move that will make Villager top tier with customs, I believe.
- Super Timber: Meh.

Sets:

The general format you'll want is 1/2,1/3,2,2

The one I suggest and the one I'll be using the most is 1122.

If you face a Ness, you want to go with 3122.

If you face a characer without projectiles, you want 2122.

According to each player, you can replace the Lloid with the Pushy one, though, so X322 is also viable, depending on the situation.



I feel like this is a solid list overall. Could someone explain why choose the Pushy Lloid for the anti-Ness set? Is there a specific reason or is it simply what people prefer using?

Yeah I think it's just because more people prefer pushy over standard. Although looking at the list, it seems we have too many pushy lloid sets and only 3 standard lloid sets. Plus I know me, you, lots of other villagers, and zee (from what I have seen) prefer standard lloid

 

[Antonykun]

While Villager has plenty of kill moves, they all require a hard read or a punish.
Mii Swordfighter consistently kills earlier than Villager despite only having 3.5 realistic kill moves.
This is because they have plenty of set ups and hit confirms for the one kill move that matters: U-air.
Villager would kindly get rid of half her kill moves for hit confirm into whatever kill moves she would have left.

 

[SoniCraft]

@ Amazing Ampharos This is the list I think should be used for Evo:

1122
1322
2322
1312
3322
1121
1332
1321
1311
2121


We can argue about the non-Evo list later, but since doubles won't be there, we can rule out the doubles sets.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

@ Amazing Ampharos This is the list I think should be used for Evo:

1122
1322
2322
1312
3322
1121
1332
1321
1311
2121


We can argue about the non-Evo list later, but since doubles won't be there, we can rule out the doubles sets.

Did we rule out 2122? If so, why? I think the utility of standard Loid is more useful than Pushy, but. I don't know. I'd argue that the 2122 set shouldn't be scrapped, Garden building damage is ridiculously helpful while baiting out your opponent with F-air and B-air, and Timber Counter and Extreme Balloon trip are almost a given.

I'd replace 1311 with 2122, because I can't see a villager choosing to run only Pushy Loid, it's just not all that impressive on its own. If you run Pushy Loid, a more viable set would be 1322, or 2322. (If it's too late, ignore me. Just trying to help a bit ^^; )

 

[SoniCraft]

Did we rule out 2122? If so, why? I think the utility of standard Loid is more useful than Pushy, but. I don't know. I'd argue that the 2122 set shouldn't be scrapped, Garden building damage is ridiculously helpful while baiting out your opponent with F-air and B-air, and Timber Counter and Extreme Balloon trip are almost a given.

I'd replace 1311 with 2122, because I can't see a villager choosing to run only Pushy Loid, it's just not all that impressive on its own. If you run Pushy Loid, a more viable set would be 1322, or 2322. (If it's too late, ignore me. Just trying to help a bit ^^; )

Alright that's fair. I guess we'll leave it up to @ Amazing Ampharos to decide which one to go with.

 

[Antonykun]

Did we rule out 2122? If so, why? I think the utility of standard Loid is more useful than Pushy, but. I don't know. I'd argue that the 2122 set shouldn't be scrapped, Garden building damage is ridiculously helpful while baiting out your opponent with F-air and B-air, and Timber Counter and Extreme Balloon trip are almost a given.

I'd replace 1311 with 2122, because I can't see a villager choosing to run only Pushy Loid, it's just not all that impressive on its own. If you run Pushy Loid, a more viable set would be 1322, or 2322. (If it's too late, ignore me. Just trying to help a bit ^^; )

Its more of those who Garden would be good, Pushy Lloyd's properties are better.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

Its more of those who Garden would be good, Pushy Lloyd's properties are better.

I think I'll try to play around with Pushy Loid tomorrow, but, to each their own I suppose.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Are the projectiles from Extreme Balloon Trip clankable? Can I hit a balloon and also clank out the explosion?

 

[Makai Wars]

Are the projectiles from Extreme Balloon Trip clankable? Can I hit a balloon and also clank out the explosion?

I feel like it isn't, an attack would make it pop and the explosion hitbox follows after, thus, you get hit, not to mention the balloons can be detonated by the player before the balloons are hit- the explosion hitboxes are so disjointed that unless you're using a projectile, you're going to take damage.

I'm going with no but i'm not 100%

 

[PacMain92201]

Its more of those who Garden would be good, Pushy Lloyd's properties are better.

Who said it has better properties? Pushy lloid has barely any distance so we can't use it to zone as well. It's pretty much just a combo tool. And I'm pretty sure a tournament villager, Zee, prefers standard lloid

 

[EmblemCrossing]

Who said it has better properties? Pushy lloid has barely any distance so we can't use it to zone as well. It's pretty much just a combo tool. And I'm pretty sure a tournament villager, Zee, prefers standard lloid

Yeah, I'm going to stand by my previous statement. I like default Loid, it's comes out fast and gives more zoning options. I only really run Pushy Loid against my friend's Ness.

 

[Antonykun]

Who said it has better properties? Pushy lloid has barely any distance so we can't use it to zone as well. It's pretty much just a combo tool. And I'm pretty sure a tournament villager, Zee, prefers standard lloid

Garden is best for people who can rush down Villager (Falcon Fox) or those who win the keepaway/have really spammy projectiles that can be pocketed constantly (Sheik Megaman Luigi).
Regular Lloyd is smaller and has less reward on hit meaning that it is less of an issue for the close range characters to bother villager
Pushy Lloyd does not have the problem Regular Lloyd has where it detonates if the smallest nudge were to touch it meaning that against projectiles you can put Pushy Lloyd down and you get a shield to give you stage-control which is vital for everyone.

I personally think Lloyd > Pushy Lloyd for characters you can zone and usually you have pocket there to help you in neutral.

 

[Makai Wars]

Soo..I'm not sure if anyone saw the Customs on Tourney at ClashTournaments but ADHD played a really nasty Villager, ledge camping the duration of the matched he was in with the explosive balloons-- his set was 1122.

It's nice to see they can be used like that, but I feel that's not how they should be used. A lot of people weren't happy about it, I know nerfs via patches aren't something we should really look out for since Sakurai doesn't seem to care too much (i.e Rosalina and Diddy's continued dominance) but I'm afraid some specific customs moves/sets might get banned because of what went on today.

 

[Antonykun]

Soo..I'm not sure if anyone saw the Customs on Tourney at ClashTournaments but ADHD played a really nasty Villager, ledge camping the duration of the matched he was in with the explosive balloons-- his set was 1122.

It's nice to see they can be used like that, but I feel that's not how they should be used. A lot of people weren't happy about it, I know nerfs via patches aren't something we should really look out for since Sakurai doesn't seem to care too much (i.e Rosalina and Diddy's continued dominance) but I'm afraid some specific customs moves/sets might get banned because of what went on today.

No, no, and no.
Like no, anyone that moans about banning TC should learn how to beat it.

 

[Makai Wars]

No, no, and no.
Like no, anyone that moans about banning TC should learn how to beat it.

Nah I meant the explosive balloons, there's no real way to beat those.

 

[Antonykun]

Nah I meant the explosive balloons, there's no real way to beat those.

Sorry I just argued against banning TC EBT is fine. Characters have jankier stuff in their default moves than Villager vanish 2.0

 

[SoniCraft]

I have a feeling we're going to start getting a lot of hate as Villager mains as customs start to become mainstream.

I guess we'll find learn what it's like to be a Diddy main for a while. Hopefully people figure out that Villager isn't actually broken, just a really huge pain to fight.

At least we can say that we mained him before he was popular. Maybe when people realize they can't just have a pocket villager like you can have a pocket Diddy, we'll garner at least some respect.

Who knows?

 

[EmblemCrossing]

I have a feeling we're going to start getting a lot of hate as Villager mains as customs start to become mainstream.

I guess we'll find learn what it's like to be a Diddy main for a while. Hopefully people figure out that Villager isn't actually broken, just a really huge pain to fight.

At least we can say that we mained him before he was popular. Maybe when people realize they can't just have a pocket villager like you can have a pocket Diddy, we'll garner at least some respect.

Who knows?

I've tried making customs the norm in my group, and I get plenty of complaints about Extreme Balloon Trip and Timber Counter. I think it's been like, three months now? And they still complain a bit, but it's gotten better since then. Now they just consider it a nuisance instead of an overpowered move.

 

[Makai Wars]

I've tried making customs the norm in my group, and I get plenty of complaints about Extreme Balloon Trip and Timber Counter. I think it's been like, three months now? And they still complain a bit, but it's gotten better since then. Now they just consider it a nuisance instead of an overpowered move.

I'm in the same boat, my friends refuse to fight me with customs because TC and EBT cause so much salt.

There isn't much I can do about that though, hahaha.

 

[PacMain92201]

Soo..I'm not sure if anyone saw the Customs on Tourney at ClashTournaments but ADHD played a really nasty Villager, ledge camping the duration of the matched he was in with the explosive balloons-- his set was 1122.

It's nice to see they can be used like that, but I feel that's not how they should be used. A lot of people weren't happy about it, I know nerfs via patches aren't something we should really look out for since Sakurai doesn't seem to care too much (i.e Rosalina and Diddy's continued dominance) but I'm afraid some specific customs moves/sets might get banned because of what went on today.

Yeah I watched that live. Even nairo got took out by that tripager. Tweek vs ADHD was so hype.
Spoiler:




The crowd was so huge that every time tweek got a lead, the crowd went wild. Dapuffster came to the rescue and beat adhd with custom brawler. Then Jtails was smart not to go Diddy against adhd in losers but instead chose PIKACHU to counteract the balloons with thunder jolts sticking to the walls.

 

[_Relapse_]

Soo..I'm not sure if anyone saw the Customs on Tourney at ClashTournaments but ADHD played a really nasty Villager, ledge camping the duration of the matched he was in with the explosive balloons-- his set was 1122.

It's nice to see they can be used like that, but I feel that's not how they should be used. A lot of people weren't happy about it, I know nerfs via patches aren't something we should really look out for since Sakurai doesn't seem to care too much (i.e Rosalina and Diddy's continued dominance) but I'm afraid some specific customs moves/sets might get banned because of what went on today.

Is there a video of it up as yet?

 

[SoniCraft]

Is there a video of it up as yet?

You can watch the replay on ClashTournaments' twitch channel.

And boy was that some lame villager play! XD I think ADHD might be done with that fraudulent villager strat; he'll probably just find another dumb one to exploit until it stops working too. But hey, at least he's progressing the custom moves meta. Imagine this popping up out of nowhere at EVO. @.@

 

[EmblemCrossing]

I'm in the same boat, my friends refuse to fight me with customs because TC and EBT cause so much salt.

There isn't much I can do about that though, hahaha.

Could always just, make new friends. Ones that complain less.

(Nah, they're getting better about it. One of my friends hates Wii Fit's customs more, deliberately will not play against them, but is fine with my Villager.)

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

My current custom set for villager has been a campy ledge villager with 1222. The default pocket seems best for me. The timber counter with exploding balloons is nice for edge control, and I've been using liftoff Lloid as a reliable vertical recover, and as a way to hit opponents who try and approach from the air. Is this a viable set, or can I do better? I'm a bit new to custom movesets.