Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Pit

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

As a specific note, I know that Pit and Dark Pit have many similarities, but special moves are a major point of difference. This topic and the parallel one on the Pit board are going to be separate so if you dual main the clones and have similar opinions for each, please cross-post.

 

[LancerStaff]

Actually they prefer exactly the same customs, (just a matter of how much,) even though their specials are mostly what separates them.

Regardless, 3111, 1113, and 3113 will be the ones most widely used. The debate is out on if N2 or D2 is more useful, but I haven't exactly messed around with those enough to say. Anything else is ridiculously niche. You'll probably be good with:
3111
1113
3113
211X
X112
X11X

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

On a specific note, I know that Pit and Dark Pit are very similar characters such that they might see each other looking into a mirror (of truth) and that many who play one play both and will have commentary relevant to both. However, special moves are the major point of difference here so the custom options preferred by each could easily be different; if you have any commentary relevant to both characters, please cross-post it so each one of the clones can be handled as an individual.

 

[LancerStaff]

(Cross-posting away!)

Actually they prefer exactly the same customs, (just a matter of how much,) even though their specials are mostly what separates them.

Regardless, 3111, 1113, and 3113 will be the ones most widely used. The debate is out on if N2 or D2 is more useful, but I haven't exactly messed around with those enough to say. Anything else is ridiculously niche. You'll probably be good with:
3111
1113
3113
211X
X112
X11X

 

[Deleted member]

Guiding Bow is great for gimps, incredible control and in practice is very good. Not useful in neutral since endlag. The pseudo smash attack arm is bad, so much lag even on hit, pathetic damage, and you're always punished for it somehow. Breezey Flight is overlooked, not for the windbox although its somewhat useful, but for ledgesnapping and speed. Its hard to punish it since you almost never go above the edge and its so fast when compared to the default. The damage orbitars are ok but you lose a great landing tool. Reflector orbitars are good against projectile users.

Edit: Quickshock is decent, don't really like it because of startup so the speed (not even that fast) doesn't really matter because its so easy to react to.

I'll edit later for loadouts and more impressions.

 

[Lavani]

Breezey Flight is overlooked, not for the windbox although its somewhat useful, but for ledgesnapping and speed.

I don't think it's being overlooked, people just don't like it because it doesn't travel as far and because it has 60f landing lag. If you don't target the ledge with it, you can be punished on reaction. Meaning your opponent can simply guard the ledge, and then react accordingly if you try to go above them onstage.

I mean, the windbox and speed are cool, but they're tiny perks alongside rather significant drawbacks.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think it's being overlooked, people just don't like it because it doesn't travel as far and because it has 60f landing lag. If you don't target the ledge with it, you can be punished on reaction. Meaning your opponent can simply guard the ledge, and then react accordingly if you try to go above them onstage.

I mean, the windbox and speed are cool, but they're tiny perks alongside rather significant drawbacks.

If you don't sweetspot the ledge with the default you're still dead because of the extra distance you cover slower and the end lag of the move in the air, plus that landing lag. The Pits always want to sweetspot the edge, so I don't think its a big drawback since its so much easier to sweetspot the edge, and most distance can be covered by the extra jumps.

 

[LancerStaff]

Breezy flight's easier ledge snaps aren't that much of an advantage if you just aim low on the stage. If you're under FD for example, flying straight up will guid you to the ledge. Any angle of flight against the side of any stage (besides freakin' Lylat) will guide you to the ledge. Just aim your Uspecial one "notch" lower then feels natural.

 

[Deleted member]

I wasn't saying that Breezy Flight was superior, just that it shouldn't be dismissed (unless default gets a larger ledgesnap window). The default's drawback to flying against the stage is Bair bait and stages like Lylat and Skyloft. I'd like to see one set with it, personally.

 

[Claxus]

For reference (I neglected this topic a bit since I couldn't readily find the numbered list)

Spoiler

Neutral:
1 - Palutena Bow
2 - Piercing Bow
3 - Guiding Bow

Side:
1 - Upperdash Arm
2 - Interception Arm
3 - Quickdash Arm

Up:
1 - Power of Flight
2 - Striking Flight
3 - Breezy Flight

Down:
1 - Guardian Orbitars
2 - Impact Orbitars
3 - Amplifying Orbitars

I dunno, those Impact Orbitars are pretty impressive. They can get KOs off the edge after 120%. Their huge hitboxes are far easier than B-air to land off stage, and even linger slightly so that they may hit just after an air dodge. And they have a super armor effect if you're hit right as you activate it. Good stuff in the air in general because of its double-sided reach, and punishing rolls, etc., and the super-horizontal knockback is gimp king.

I also think Strking Flight is a little underrated. Or a lot. Pit rarely needs to angle his flight more than it does, and this one travels him a bit faster. And that hitbox... It actually lasts most of the flight's movement and can knock enemies who who normally take advantage of Pit's predictable and harmless up-B, maybe netting you some stage spikes if you use it right. And if you hit right on startup, it's a late KO move, so it can be used as a sort of retreating KO attack (fast-falling onto a ledge), or attacking while recovering at the same time.

Piercing Bow is more of a niche. They're easier to fire and forget for a bit more damage, but eh... The Shot Homing +3 one is insane. They won't be dodged. They can be looped around so easy until they hit or disappear, so they pretty much have to blocked or beat out. You can loop them around in front of you protectively, and even run behind it to combo/grab as they hit. With so much control, you'll be hitting with these the most of all specials, so charging and firing will make them the strongest of the arrows (the other two need setting up for charged shots). Basically, it's a plain upgrade for 1 less damage, maybe one of the best specials in the game. So most sets will probably run Guiding Bow.

Interception Arm... Is weird. It's not bad as a counter, since you don't commit yourself as much, but it's still really punishable... Quickdash Arm is weaker but lacks a lot of KO power, but it does provide some serious instant gap-closing and a bit more horizontal power, and it's safest on whiff.

I also toyed around with Breezy Flight, but it's probably a little too niche to make up for its worse recovery (though it is faster). It can function basically the same as Greninja's Hydro Pump for gimping, with a much easier windbox to hit (and more powerful?). It's probably good to have around though to pick against Little Macs and such.

So... The above sets are good. But can we agree on a 3322 as an effective full custom set? It's a more offensive set. And/or maybe 3123 for a more stable and efficient mostly custom set?

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

From Reddit:

1222 (default bow, Electrocut Arm, Striking Flight, Impact Orbitars)

Man, that's sad. Only one reply, and a pitiful one at that.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I've never found Impact Orbiters useful. Like at all.

 

[LancerStaff]

I've never found Impact Orbiters useful. Like at all.

Me either... Although I believe it launches at a pretty low angle, so it should be useful for gimping. I'd never give up my shields though, practically replaces the airdodge in some matchups.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Although I believe it launches at a pretty low angle, so it should be useful for gimping.

It is INCREDIBLE for gimping. I really recommend you guys practice it and see what it's like. I constantly amaze myself with how effective it is at that role, and its hitboxes are pretty handy as well.

Of course, I'll admit that I haven't gotten a chance to use that thing against Human players yet...but they're so useful against the CPU I have a hard time imagining them not being useful against human players.

 

[LancerStaff]

It is INCREDIBLE for gimping. I really recommend you guys practice it and see what it's like. I constantly amaze myself with how effective it is at that role, and its hitboxes are pretty handy as well.

Of course, I'll admit that I haven't gotten a chance to use that thing against Human players yet...but they're so useful against the CPU I have a hard time imagining them not being useful against human players.

Yeah well, CPUs treat customs more like the originals more often then not. They'll never attempt to evade Marth's dashing assault past point blank, for example. They fair better against custom projectiles because they react to the hitbox instead of the imput.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Well, yeah, CPUs are really a flawed way to judge it. There is not denying that. I feel that move just has so much potential, though. If you get hit by it off stage, there's a really good chance you won't be coming back.

I still urge you guys to at least practice with it a bit and see if it works for you.

 

[LancerStaff]

Actually, I remember somebody posting a video of it in use in DP's video topic. I regret not giving it more priority over piercing bow, but thankfully AA made the right choice. It could be seriously useful in some matchups, but there's also another custom needing some use: Amplifying Orbitars.

One might just think the only advantage is better reflecting, and you'd be incorrect. Their durability, or lack of it, is largely a plus. You can't be hit by the attack that broke them, and you recover from it much quicker then putting them away. It's basically a counter and much more effective at returning to the stage with then the default. Ten seconds of regeneration isn't that big a deal unless you're on the receiving end of a charge shot. The only problem with them being so fragile is that multihit moves tears 'em to shreds and then gets you.

 

[Makorel]

I've been messing with Piercing Arrows with Pit in training and I've found them to be a good anti-camp tool. They go through all of Duck Hunt's specials, R.O.B.'s gyro and Villager's tree and Lloid, as well as various other projectiles such as Mario & Luigi's fireballs, Mega Man's pellets, Robin's Arcfire/Arcthunder, Yoshi Eggs, etc. It's even possible to punish Diddy for throwing his banana although the startup and endlag on the move makes it a risk. Some moves like Thoron and Fox and Falco's lasers go right through Piercing Arrow but not without them taking damage themselves or are outranged by the arrows like Shiek's needle customs. Piercing Arrows can at least trade with, if not beat, every other projectile in the game except for Toon Link's Piercing Arrows which are very similar but go further, have less lag and don't do as much damage.

Edit: Just discovered Intercepting Orbitars have super armor right before the orbitars appear (tested against Charizard's Flare Blitz & Kirby's Giant Hammer)

 

[LancerStaff]

Good finds, especially the super armor on impacts if true. But then with the piercing bow that leaves us with more sets then slots...

Yaknow, I have an idea. I need to do a little testing first. I plan on making good use of the fact there's two Pits...

 

[Makorel]

For the record I've only been able to test that the Impact Orbitars have super armor on the ground. I would need another person to test if they have super armor in the air.

After using them against real people I'm less enthused against Piercing Arrows. the start up, charge time and end lag makes them somewhat less useful than I initially thought. I'd still say they're helpful against characters like Duck Hunt and Luigi so he can't just sit there spamming fireballs all day but they're not nearly as good for midranged poking like the base arrows (these are normal Pit's arrows just to be clear).

Fun fact: Fully charged Piercing Arrows will knock metaknight out of his side B and deal damage.

Also I don't think I like Guiding Arrows. The arrow lasts longer than the regular arrows (once again these are normal Pit's arrows I'm referencing) which is terrible if you miss because it makes them less spammable. I feel like as far as edge guarding goes it's better to throw out more less controllable arrows than keep control of one arrow for longer.

I'm really liking Impact Orbitars though. Before I used them I thought the Pits just had an ok edge guarding game but with these I think they have a fantastic edge guarding game. I would take these over Amplifying Orbitars, even against characters with good projectiles, especially after I super armored through a Villager's Lloid and knocked him into the blastzone, and after how easily I gimped a Mega Man during his rush coil recovery. I feel like these do what Electroshock Arm tries to do but better: It knocks the enemy into the blast zone at a lower angle and an overall larger hit box without sending you careening into the abyss if you wiff on stage.

 

[LancerStaff]

Just make sure to hit something if you end up missing the opponent, normal arrows or guiding, so you'll get to shoot again sooner.

Same deal with reflectors. Aim arrows up into the opponent instead of down and they'll hit the ground instead of flying off into the distance after being reflected.

 

[Sovereign]

Standard Guardian Orbiters are awesome. They push the opponent out of your space, due to the windboxes they have. I've managed to gimp a Mac's recovery, because of the amount of push they have.

Specifically in the match-up if you just get him off stage, chase and throw out the Orbiters and he can't do anything about it. They can take any impressive amount of damage before breaking.

 

[Makorel]

Got curious about the damage values on the arms today so I'm posting what I've found here since this thread is about customs and also stickied.

All these values were found on base Final Destination in training mode using Mario as a punching bag so assume no rage. Mario was under the control setting so he had no DI one way or the other, and was attacked from the center of Final Destination where he respawns. All kills were fresh.

Electroshock Arm (Custom 1) kills at 154% on the ground.
Electrocut Arm (Custom 2) kills at 131% on the ground.
Quickshock Arm (Custom 3) kills at 212% on the ground.

Amplifying Orbitars (Custom 2) kills at 200%

Upperdash Arm (Custom 1) kills at 132% on the ground
Interception Arm (Custom 2) kills at 111% on the ground and at 150% in the air
Quickdash Arm (Custom 3) kills at 216% on the ground and goes at a right angle

All arms retain the property of being weaker in the air. Interception Arm was the only one I tested for an exact value because it was the only one that seemed strong enough to be worth testing.

 

[Makorel]

Got curious about the damage values on the arms today so I'm posting what I've found here since this thread is about customs and also stickied.

All these values were found on base Final Destination in training mode using Mario as a punching bag so assume no rage. Mario was under the control setting so he had no DI one way or the other, and was attacked from the center of Final Destination where he respawns. All kills were fresh.

Upperdash Arm (Custom 1) kills at 132% on the ground
Interception Arm (Custom 2) kills at 111% on the ground and at 150% in the air
Quickdash Arm (Custom 3) kills at 216% on the ground and goes at a 45 degree angle

Impact Orbitars (Custom 2) kills at 200%

Electroshock Arm (Custom 1) kills at 154% on the ground.
Electrocut Arm (Custom 2) kills at 131% on the ground.
Quickshock Arm (Custom 3) kills at 212% on the ground.

All arms retain the property of being weaker in the air. Interception Arm was the only one I tested for an exact value because it was the only one that seemed strong enough to be worth testing. I don't know about anyone else but as a Pit main an Upperdash that kills 20% earlier was exactly what I was looking for. No idea if it's worth dropping the dash though.

Also posting findings/thoughts from the Dark Pit customs thread I found a while back just in case people visit this thread and not that one.

Spoiler

I've been messing with Piercing Arrows with Pit in training and I've found them to be a good anti-camp tool. They go through all of Duck Hunt's specials, R.O.B.'s gyro and Villager's tree and Lloid, as well as various other projectiles such as Mario & Luigi's fireballs, Mega Man's pellets, Robin's Arcfire/Arcthunder, Yoshi Eggs, etc. It's even possible to punish Diddy for throwing his banana although the startup and endlag on the move makes it a risk. Some moves like Thoron and Fox and Falco's lasers go right through Piercing Arrow but not without them taking damage themselves or are outranged by the arrows like Shiek's needle customs. Piercing Arrows can at least trade with, if not beat, every other projectile in the game except for Toon Link's Piercing Arrows which are very similar but go further, have less lag and don't do as much damage.

Edit: Just discovered Impact Orbitars have super armor right before the orbitars appear (tested against Charizard's Flare Blitz & Kirby's Giant Hammer)

Spoiler

For the record I've only been able to test that the Impact Orbitars have super armor on the ground. I would need another person to test if they have super armor in the air.

After using them against real people I'm less enthused against Piercing Arrows. the start up, charge time and end lag makes them somewhat less useful than I initially thought. I'd still say they're helpful against characters like Duck Hunt and Luigi so he can't just sit there spamming fireballs all day but they're not nearly as good for midranged poking like the base arrows (these are normal Pit's arrows just to be clear).

Fun fact: Fully charged Piercing Arrows will knock metaknight out of his side B and deal damage.

Also I don't think I like Guiding Arrows. The arrow lasts longer than the regular arrows (once again these are normal Pit's arrows I'm referencing) which is terrible if you miss because it makes them less spammable. I feel like as far as edge guarding goes it's better to throw out more less controllable arrows than keep control of one arrow for longer.

I'm really liking Impact Orbitars though. Before I used them I thought the Pits just had an ok edge guarding game but with these I think they have a fantastic edge guarding game. I would take these over Amplifying Orbitars, even against characters with good projectiles, especially after I super armored through a Villager's Lloid and knocked him into the blastzone, and after how easily I gimped a Mega Man during his rush coil recovery. I feel like these do what Electroshock Arm tries to do but better: It knocks the enemy into the blast zone at a lower angle and an overall larger hit box without sending you careening into the abyss if you wiff on stage.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Curious about why no love for striking flight? I would think a good recovery move that does damage would be appreciated. My sets for both pits are usually 1122 because I'm not much of a reflector and I like to go offensive. Still gotta unlock arrow 3 for dark pit so I might change my mind if his is around the same as pit's default arrow.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

I myself usually stay with the Guiding Arrow for the extra curve factor, the Electrocut Arm for increased super armor duration and easier time activating it in the air, and it doesn't launch you off of the edge on the ground, Power of Flight for being a more reliable recovery, and Guardian Orbitars for reflecting purposes and the slight defense they give.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I use Guiding Bow, default side, default up and Amplifying Orbitars.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

According to amazing ampharos the pit and dark pit should be kickin again soon. Any particular reason why people don't like to use striking flight?

I've had very good results with 1122.

 

[UberMadman]

According to amazing ampharos the pit and dark pit should be kickin again soon. Any particular reason why people don't like to use striking flight?

I've had very good results with 1122.

Usually because the hitbox isn't generally worth the trajectory reduction. Oftentimes you have to recover above the ledge because of it, and the opponent can easily wait for the animation to end and punish.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Usually because the hitbox isn't generally worth the trajectory reduction. Oftentimes you have to recover above the ledge because of it, and the opponent can easily wait for the animation to end and punish.

That makes sense. I guess it depends on play style though since my recovery isn't too dependent on up-b unless I'm close enough to the edge anyway, and either way my helpless state is usually pretty readable. Guess that's the next thing I need to work on

Love ur profile pic btw

 

[redblade]

One more point supporting Guiding Bow: Diddy and Ness gimps. Normal arrows from Palutena's Bow already have the potential to give these two a hard time recovering, since all you need to do is hit them at just the right time (or in Ness' case, you can just shoot PK Thunder itself). Guiding Bow just increases your margin of error and lets you fire the arrow from less ideal starting points.

Curious about why no love for striking flight? I would think a good recovery move that does damage would be appreciated. My sets for both pits are usually 1122 because I'm not much of a reflector and I like to go offensive.

I tried out Striking Flight a little on the 3DS (Battlefield), and I think the obvious con of the move, the reduced angle control, can be a bit iffy for people used to Power of Flight's flexibility. Narrower angles means you need to be a tad more mindful when going to the side blast lines for gimps and kills. Also, I'm skeptical of the move's comparative utility as an offstage offensive option, due to the startup time and the inconvenient size and placement of the initial hitbox (as Pit players, we're spoiled by his fast and disjointed attacks). I think I'd rather go for dair, fair, bair, or even nair and the Impact Orbitars in any theoretical situation where I was on the offensive and pursuing a kill offstage. There's far more of a defensive, "GET THIS GUY OFF OF ME--oh hey, I might actually kill with it, too" sort of case for it offstage, as long as you're not up against someone with, say, a counter. (Speaking of which, this isn't necessarily ideal to pick against characters with counters.)

Having said all that, Striking Flight still covers a decent amount of distance, so with a little more care when going deep into the sides and back (mainly just making sure to avoid going too low while moving closer to the ledge before hitting Up+B), I think it's workable. We Pit players take for granted how easy it is for us to recover anyways, especially in light of other characters' recoveries, so a little sacrifice for a less vulnerable recovery move shouldn't hurt.

 

[Makorel]

I've decided I'm going to try to reason out 10 custom move sets for Pit for Evo. Hopefully others will join in because I wouldn't be very comfortable being the solitary individual that decided what Pit's custom move sets will be from now until forever but I've decided that it's better than no one saying anything at all.

Neutral B - Each of the bows has merit in the current meta game. Default Bow for its ease of use and familiarity, Control Bow for its general utility and Piercing Bow for its, well, piercing. I feel like the Guiding Bow will eventually come to replace the Default Bow in time but all I have is theory on that matter. That's 3 options.

Side B - Quickdash Arm feels pretty worthless so long as Dark Pit exists. If you want a 45% angle and better launch power to boot just go with Dark Pit. Pit already has excellent recovery so there's no need to pick this option for even more recovery. Interception Arm I've never really used outside of training but others have said that it's not very good due to the lack of distance it covers so I'm going to eliminate it as well. that's 1 option.

Up B - People have mentioned liking Striking Flight, and while personally I don't think the hurtbox adds significantly more protection than the default, Striking Flight's directional variance isn't so restrictive vertically that you can't recover deep horizontally so you're not really losing more than you gain by throwing on that hurtbox. Breezy Flight Has freedom of movement and a windbox that doesn't work better than Striking Flight's hitbox for protection with the added bonus that it doesn't do damage but it has some rather shaky gimping potential. In exchange the distance traveled is about half, and overall just doesn't seem to be worth using. That leaves 2 options.

Down B - Is there any reason to use Guardian Orbitars over Amplifying Orbitars? Impact Orbitars has utility that Guardian and Amplifying Orbitars don't posses and Amplifying Orbitars seem to be a better version of Guardian Orbitars. This would leave 2 options.

That leaves these 12 sets:

1112 1122
1113 1123
2112 2122
2113 2123
3112 3122
3113 3123

Of these the 1xxx and 3xxx have general purpose use, whereas the 2xxx would be for characters that like to put up walls in front of your arrows (3xxx can also circumvent walls but in a more roundabout way) so I would say the top candidates for elimination would be two of the 2xxx sets due to their more niche purpose. Instead of doing that though I will take the wishy washy approach of splitting the 2xxx sets between Dark Pit and Pit. I admit that I don't have a good way of doing this other than personal preference, which is for the Upperdash Arm and Impact Orbitars.

So to wrap it up these are the sets I suggest:

Pit
1112 1122
1113 1123
3112 3122
3113 3123
2112 2122

Dark Pit

1112 1122
1113 1123
3112 3122
3113 3123
2113 2123

As far as Pit/Dark Pit's best sets go I hope I'm not too far off the mark.

 

[redblade]

Side B - Quickdash Arm feels pretty worthless so long as Dark Pit exists. If you want a 45% angle and better launch power to boot just go with Dark Pit. Pit already has excellent recovery so there's no need to pick this option for even more recovery. Interception Arm I've never really used outside of training but others have said that it's not very good due to the lack of distance it covers so I'm going to eliminate it as well. that's 1 option.

Hmm, having messed around with Quickdash Arm a bit, I feel that this move is less about power and trajectory and more about mobility and stage positioning. Mainly, it's got potential for cross-ups; even if the opponent shields it, if you're spacing the move correctly, you'll just end up quickly moving past him and stop at a decent enough distance. So it could help out a bit when you're pinned into a corner or if you just want to apply pressure. Can it be played around? Sure, but Interception Arm's much worse in that department (see the next paragraph). Would I give up one of my two best vertical kill options in Upperdash Arm for it? Ehh, probably not.

I'd definitely be fine without Interception Arm. The main thing I don't like about it is that it's got less utility when actively pursuing the kill. When I use the standard Upperdash Arm, I want my kill (or combo breaker, but usually the kill) then and there, no questions asked; the fact that it can create its hitbox immediately on contact and even has some super armor for powering through some interruptions makes it that much more useful. In contrast, Interception Arm's lack of distance is already an inconvenience when your opponent's trying to avoid the move, but its hitbox isn't guaranteed to come out immediately on contact, and that's a bummer.

Down B - Is there any reason to use Guardian Orbitars over Amplifying Orbitars? Impact Orbitars has utility that Guardian and Amplifying Orbitars don't posses and Amplifying Orbitars seem to be a better version of Guardian Orbitars. This would leave 2 options.

Impact Orbitars is a must, for sure. But I'm torn over Guardian Orbitars, since it's better equipped to tank non-projectile hits (useful when getting juggled, for instance). Then again, I think I'd be playing non-optimally if I was trying to use Guardian Orbitars to tank hits like that, given the cool down time on it. Besides, the main reason I'd use the Guardian Orbitars in the first place is projectile reflection at a fair distance, so Amplifying Orbitars do better in that regard.

 

[ShortcutButton]

Neutral B - Many Pits (myself included) will go for Guiding Bow - and theres not much reason to use the other two. Guiding Bow is good for anything.

Side B - I thought Interception Arm was pretty viable, until I tested it out on training. The other person has to go to around where Pit's foot is before the attack to get hit. That's insane. The only reasonable way to implement that would be a really fool-hardy player or Sonics spin dash (would this even work?). Quickdash... no.

Up B - Striking Flight, when weighing the pros and cons, just doesnt do enough. The only thing I could see working is hitting them from under Battlefield (that glitchy thing suggested for use on cruel smash). Thats just not worth it for decreased mobility. Breezy is really bad.

Down B - Impact and Amplifying are both great choices, and drown out Guardian. Use Impact for an aggressive mindset and Amplifying for other projectile characters (Pac-Man, DH).

Here are my suggested sets, in tiers of usefulness:
3112 - 3113
3212 - 3213
3122 - 3123
1112 - 1113
1122 - 1123

 

[ShortcutButton]

Neutral B - Many Dark Pits will go for Guiding Bow - and theres not much reason to use the other two. Guiding Bow is practically necessary for Dark Pit, in my playstyle.

Side B - I thought Electrocut Arm was pretty viable, until I tested it out on training. The other person has to go to around where Dark Pit's foot is before the attack to get hit. That's insane. The only reasonable way to implement that would be a really fool-hardy player or Sonics spin dash (would this even work?). Quickshock... no.

Up B - Striking Flight, when weighing the pros and cons, just doesnt do enough. The only thing I could see working is hitting them from under Battlefield (that glitchy thing suggested for use on cruel smash). Thats just not worth it for decreased mobility. Breezy is really bad.

Down B - Impact and Amplifying are both great choices, and drown out Guardian. Use Impact for an aggressive mindset and Amplifying for other projectile characters (Pac-Man, DH).

Here are my suggested sets, in tiers of usefulness:
3112 - 3113
3212 - 3213
3122 - 3123
1112 - 1113
1212 - 1213

 

[Makorel]

You're allowed to have 10 actually. Evo won't be allowing set swap outs so every slot needs to be filled.

It doesn't work against Sonic's spindash, in fact it's worse. Upperdash clanks with Sonic's spins but Interception just stands there, takes the hit and does nothing.

I still say Piercing Arrows has a niche (a small niche) against certain projectile characters. If we take Duck Hunt as an example then Piercing Arrows will go through his various gunman walls and all of his projectiles while Pit's sitting pretty in his Orbitar fortress, forcing Duck Hunt to approach.

I feel like taking certain customs to counter characters with projectiles isn't something that has a "one size fits all" solution. Piercing Arrows don't seem useful except against heavy spam characters (and Rosalina), and you would be surprised how useful Impact Orbitars are compared to Amplifying Orbitars against Mega Man specifically, as a smart Mega Man won't let you reflect his F-smash willy nilly and you can actually gimp him with Impact Orbitars if he's running Rush Coil.

 

[EnGarde]

I too think piercing arrows deserve to keep a spot in the project. 9 times out of 10 I'd prefer guidng arrows, but against certain types of zoners I'd want the option to counterpick piercing arrows, especially when combined with a beneficial stage. Maybe when I'm more used to guiding arrows I'll change my mind, I dunno.

I'm not good at ad hoc theorycrafting, so here's a low-key friendly match with a Villager to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Disclaimer: wifi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO5gFAVId2g

 

[TheASDF]

I've decided I'm going to try to reason out 10 custom move sets for Pit for Evo. Hopefully others will join in because I wouldn't be very comfortable being the solitary individual that decided what Pit's custom move sets will be from now until forever but I've decided that it's better than no one saying anything at all.

Neutral B - Each of the bows has merit in the current meta game. Default Bow for its ease of use and familiarity, Control Bow for its general utility and Piercing Bow for its, well, piercing. I feel like the Guiding Bow will eventually come to replace the Default Bow in time but all I have is theory on that matter. That's 3 options.

Side B - Quickdash Arm feels pretty worthless so long as Dark Pit exists. If you want a 45% angle and better launch power to boot just go with Dark Pit. Pit already has excellent recovery so there's no need to pick this option for even more recovery. Interception Arm I've never really used outside of training but others have said that it's not very good due to the lack of distance it covers so I'm going to eliminate it as well. that's 1 option.

Up B - People have mentioned liking Striking Flight, and while personally I don't think the hurtbox adds significantly more protection than the default, Striking Flight's directional variance isn't so restrictive vertically that you can't recover deep horizontally so you're not really losing more than you gain by throwing on that hurtbox. Breezy Flight Has freedom of movement and a windbox that doesn't work better than Striking Flight's hitbox for protection with the added bonus that it doesn't do damage but it has some rather shaky gimping potential. In exchange the distance traveled is about half, and overall just doesn't seem to be worth using. That leaves 2 options.

Down B - Is there any reason to use Guardian Orbitars over Amplifying Orbitars? Impact Orbitars has utility that Guardian and Amplifying Orbitars don't posses and Amplifying Orbitars seem to be a better version of Guardian Orbitars. This would leave 2 options.

That leaves these 12 sets:

1112 1122
1113 1123
2112 2122
2113 2123
3112 3122
3113 3123

Of these the 1xxx and 3xxx have general purpose use, whereas the 2xxx would be for characters that like to put up walls in front of your arrows (3xxx can also circumvent walls but in a more roundabout way) so I would say the top candidates for elimination would be two of the 2xxx sets due to their more niche purpose. Instead of doing that though I will take the wishy washy approach of splitting the 2xxx sets between Dark Pit and Pit. I admit that I don't have a good way of doing this other than personal preference, which is for the Upperdash Arm and Impact Orbitars.

So to wrap it up these are the sets I suggest:

Pit
1112 1122
1113 1123
3112 3122
3113 3123
2112 2122

Dark Pit

1112 1122
1113 1123
3112 3122
3113 3123
2113 2123

As far as Pit/Dark Pit's best sets go I hope I'm not too far off the mark.

I'd basically agree with those, though I think having both Amplifying/Impact Orbitars for the Piercing Arrow sets is more important than having both up-B's. Honestly I'd say just put 2112 and 2113 on both Pits and leave the Striking Flight out altogether - it's gonna be a pretty niche set anyway. Plus, without the flexibility of those arrows it might be nice to be able to still go deep to gimp without having to worry about if you can recover safely. If nothing else, it seems most people will agree that the first 8 listed are their best sets.

 

[Makorel]

Honestly I'd say just put 2112 and 2123 on both Pits and leave the Striking Flight out altogether

I think you're right that we should be placing more importance on the Orbitar choice than the recovery choice but your wording confuses me; 2123 would include Striking Flight.

 

[TheASDF]

Uh, meant 2113. Thanks.