Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Jigglypuff

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

 

[19_]

The reason why there has not been any posting here is because jiggs has limited options in what her customs can do.

I think jig's options are:
1211
1311
2111
2211
2311
1113
I am kinda turned off by leaping rest so don't know how good it is.

I also think relentless rollout could be useable now that super rollout was patched.

 

[Toxicroaker]

Here is my opinion
1211
1311
1312 (pound blitz can combo into leaping rest)
1113
1213
1313

I don't think rollout customs change enough to use them over wakie-wakie.

 

[JarOfPlasma]

Personally, I use 2321, but I doubt it's too useful as a whole.

1211
1311
1313
2311
1113
2313

 

[The Twinkie]

Personally I like 2321

Relentless Roll-out: Although this is weaker this has many uses. It's a good recovering tool. Usually the other roll-outs stop if they hit someone mid air and I'll kill u recocering. This one will just go through them. The fact that it goes through characters is great. U can play mind games with him. It isn't even used as a reliable attack so the power nerf is completely ok with me.

Pound Blitz: The range and aerial momentum from brawl is back with this. We can use this as a recovery again. This also puts them over u which isn't where u wanna be against a jigglypuff. I think this can combo into rest but idk. It also does 9% which is pretty good and think this is the best.

Hyper Voice: It isn't great but Its usable. It's super situational and it can edgeguard. Once I was playing against my friend and I used it on the moving platform. He tried to recover and it killed him at 20%. It was near the blast zone tho. It seems like a good edgeguarding tool in specific MUs. On moving platforms it's interesting.

Rest: This move is so good that I would never give this up. A punish tool that kills at 40% is insane and the KB and damage got buffed. Since she can crouch oos faster, crouch rest punish is now even more effective. Now it can even be comboed into so 0-death combos? Maybe? Anyways just being comboed into is good. It's also makes your opponent scared to get near u. This might even be the best move in the entire game.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Don't shoot the messenger for the message. I bring this from Reddit.

As a Jigglypuff main, I can honestly say that I've only found success in a couple of her alternate sets, with only one or two moves changed, being 1112, and 1122. Leaping rest is a very sneaky way to get kills on opponents pre-land/tech, and on some fast fallers who I usually have a harder time getting rest off on, it helps. Neutral 3 is much too easy to avoid to really be viable.

While her neutral may not be great to begin with, her neutral 2 doesn't really make it better or worse. This one makes her pass through opponents rather than dealing a big hit, which I think makes it less viable as an attack, but better for recovery, since with neutral 1 any opponent just ramming into you over a pit will result in your doom. Neutral 3's large charge time and the fact that you can't stop it makes it a very poor choice.

As far as Up-Special's go, 1 is the best choice. While Spinphony can be useful for edge-guarding, this happens VERY RARELY, and Hyper Voice isn't strong enough for the risk you take using it. I only see up 2 or 3 ever being used if neutral 1 isn't, as leaping rest can't follow a sing for the easy hit.

Side Specials are honestly the most useful. Sliding pound is a suprisingly nice way to approach and deal damage, while it is a bit more punishable in my opinion. Horizontal Pound is also a nice option, especially for characters that are hard to vertically KO as it gives you an option other than rest or B-air.

Overall, I can't say Jiggly's customs are anything great, but with proper use, sets like 1212 or 1222 could very well succeed in high-level play.

 

[Cha Cha San]

Fyi spinphony gives the enemy their up-B back when it hits. It's still useless even for edge guarding.

 

[Toxicroaker]

After a bit of testing, leaping rest seems infinitely better than wakie-wakie. It can kill pretty easily after you get them in the air, but it does have more lag then normal rest (it's still harder to punish though because of the leap.)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Just spent some time messing around with her customs. I test these on the Spanish version of the 3DS game, so I don't know most of the English move names and I'm gonna use names based on their effects.

As far as I can tell, Normal Rollout is useless even as a punish, and Pass-Through Rollout is also useless, since I can't imagine any character that Jigglypuff has trouble recovering against would suddenly have trouble swatting that away. At least Strong Rollout has the super-situational use of being a suitable punish on a shield break when combined with Regular Pound. 23% damage and it puts people in a potential edgeguarding position as early as 20-25% (before the hit). It is also superior to the other two in that it ends much earlier, so that if you use it outside of a shield break punish, you're not required to spend all your jumps just to barely make it back when you miss, and good players will murder you if you try to turn the other versions of Rollout around after they avoid it the first time. Tallest of all the Hobbits, but Neutral-B3 is definitely the way to go here, I think.

All of the Forward-Bs are at least somewhat interesting. Normal Pound has a lot of utility--The hitbox lingers and is quite large, it can be steered up/down during the hit, and it does a lot of shield damage. This is a great tool for worrying people on a platform, since they don't want their shield to disappear but they live in fear of your great set of aerials. Very solid all around, with a number of uses and strengths. I'm pretty sure Forward-B1 is the superior choice all around.

Semispike Pound is different in that it trades the elements of safety for edgeguard potential. Jigglypuff doesn't slide forward, the hitbox doesn't really linger and doesn't seem as large, you can't steer up/down, it does a lot less shield damage, and there is a bit of increased cooldown. You're losing an awful lot, buuuuuuuuuut it sends people straight out with decent power. A good comparison would be hitting someone with an uncharged D-Smash. It doesn't destroy worlds, but if the opponent is already offstage, that'd probably be more than enough power to KO with at middling percents. That said, I can't help but think that any character it would be good against would be stuffed just as well by a late F-Air -> N-Air combo in the same situations, and I think you lose too much good for it to be worth it. -Maybe- there's a matchup or two that it would be just the right thing, but I seriously doubt it.

Multihit Pound trades the quick-ish start-up and great shield damage for a little insurance against people wanting to quickly punish an otherwise-misspaced Normal Pound. It shoots out a few tiny punch hitboxes (think Kirby multi-Jab) after the initial punch, which gives it -slightly- more range than Normal Pound (because Normal Pound is fairly disjointed as it is). It also has the distinction of moving the aerial distance even when on the ground, but I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. You guarantee that you hit with the very end of the move (which is largely safe but only when well-spaced, mostly defeating the purpose, IMO, since Normal Pound is the same way). It is somewhat safer than Normal Pound when poorly spaced, but at least Normal Pound gives you a weakened shield to try to exploit afterward. The noticeable start-up also makes it a lot easier to react to, so you won't be landing it nearly as often. Since it doesn't do much on shield and it's a lot harder to hit with, I'm not really sure what the user is trying to accomplish by using it. Not really a fan as it is.

All the Up-Bs range from "really situational" to "outright useless," mostly because the hitboxes don't linger. Normal Sing is probably the worst by virtue of it having an absolutely abysmal hitbox and doing nothing to people who are in the air. Even if it could hit people in the air, nobody will willingly be that close to you long enough for you to do this to them. If Sing lingered it could be a potentially-great spotdodge punish, but it doesn't, so it's not. Attacking Sing and Flipping Sing are automatically better than the original by virtue of hitting aerial opponents and having hitboxes large enough to hit reasonable individuals. Also, if you hit with the first part of Sing, people can still mash out of it if they're under 100% before you can punish. :/

Attacking Sing has solid knockback and a decent disjoint. You can shorthop above the ledge and use this to attack near the edge before immediately grabbing it, which is nice. Also, the start-up is short enough to allow you to ledge drop and double-jump immediate Up-B so that it hits right before you grab the ledge, allowing for the disjoint to be effective under the ledge as well. I haven't tested it against other recoveries, but the start-up and disjoint seem like they could beat things that your aerials would not. It also has some utility in being an attack that can hit people who ledge drop, ledge jump, or ledge roll. Probably not the greatest method of dealing with them, but that's still worth noting. This has the greatest flexibility and usefulness (by Sing standards) and is gonna be the special of choice here.

Flipping Sing has no real knockback with a large start-up increase but a huge disjoint. Instead of knockback, Flipping Sing has a gimped Mario Cape effect, hitting them with a 1% love tap but turning around any aerial momentum an opponent has while outright flipping their Left/Right movement for the next 30 frames. While highly matchup-specific, this can potentially be a pretty useful tool, helping against characters with difficult sweetspots post-flip (like Luigi, Ness, and Falcon), as well as ones with specific traits. The armor on Bowser and Yoshi (as well as Yoshi's decaying Up-B) make it so they don't like to recover against it because it essentially becomes a slow, huge Mario Cape, and it flips Bowser Jr.'s Up-B without giving him his Clown Car back due to the low knockback. Actively useful in specific matchups but otherwise pretty bad; worth messing with here and there!

Normal Rest does 20% is integral to her punish game, is invincible on start-up, and is a high-risk, high-reward option that people love. You're gonna be hard-pressed to find a reason to use any of the others.

Jumping Rest has the novelty of giving her a huge vertical area to hit people with, but that vertical hitbox is rather weak. 15% and a flower at the very beginning or 10% on the way up. The endlag is even greater than on Normal Rest, so punishment is coming whether or not you hit them, basically. There's an exception in Doubles, perhaps, where a high-jumping partner can save you from punishment by doing a weak attack or footstool on you, but the same can be said of Normal Rest, which does a lot more damage and knockback. Maybe there's some Doubles shenanigans with using it to recover, but I doubt it's worth using over the normal one.

Explosion Rest has a ridiculous amount of start-up that is unsuitable for Singles play. It hits hard and the endlag isn't nearly as bad as the others, but it's still totally punishable even after the explosion with no real setup potential that doesn't benefit Normal Rest more. Stay away from this.

Generally speaking, I think her critical sets largely revolve around the different Up-Bs. 3121 and 3131 for sure, while I suppose there's a little merit to the different versions of Pound (and, for better or worse, those people likely prefer a different Rollout, too).

 

[warriorman222]

Spinphony(Flipping Sing) has hitstun, so it puts them out of helplesssness/freefall/special fall, whatever you call it, giving them their Up-B back(except Jr.). It is by far worse than Rest offsatge too.
Hyper Voice has a hitbox that should never be used, it is outclassed.
Sing is useless but at least you can get the occasional rest with it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Up-B3 has very slight hitstun and still flips people's controls for 30 frames, which effs certain characters' recoveries up big time. Only a handful of characters really mind, but it can hurt them a lot.

Up-B2 has a disjoint that can reasonably hit people coming toward the edge. It has pretty solid knockback and is unique in being a large attack that you can grab the edge immediately after putting out.

Sing shouldn't net you a Rest unless the opponent is asleep at the wheel. If they're reasonably good at mashing, they will break out and punish you if they are at 100% or less.

It's worth noting that you shouldn't be using ANY of these moves if you're not canceling them by grabbing the ledge immediately afterward. As such, that tiny, tiny Sing hitbox is basically unusable even without the long endlag.

 

[Toxicroaker]

Up-B3 has very slight hitstun and still flips people's controls for 30 frames, which effs certain characters' recoveries up big time. Only a handful of characters really mind, but it can hurt them a lot.

Up-B2 has a disjoint that can reasonably hit people coming toward the edge. It has pretty solid knockback and is unique in being a large attack that you can grab the edge immediately after putting out.

Sing shouldn't net you a Rest unless the opponent is asleep at the wheel. If they're reasonably good at mashing, they will break out and punish you if they are at 100% or less.

It's worth noting that you shouldn't be using ANY of these moves if you're not canceling them by grabbing the ledge immediately afterward. As such, that tiny, tiny Sing hitbox is basically unusable.

Let go of the ledge, jump, and use regular sing. Situational, but it's a free rest if it hits at mid-to-high percents.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It won't hit, because nobody will be that close to you without throwing out a hitbox unless they're already in the air. It's not even situational because you'd have to be a fool to do that when you could just space out literally any reasonable attack there to beat Sing while still challenging her aerials...The only situation you're talking about is one where you're playing someone who is outright bad and doesn't understand the basic concepts of spacing.

The hitbox is smaller than virtually any spacing tool, it can be shielded, does absolutely nothing to characters in the air, and only hits at the beginning of each of the three sound waves (making it also really easy to shield/spotdodge and punish, even if you're trying to ledge-cancel it, since you'd have to be at point-blank range for that to happen anyway).

You cannot count on players to make mistakes in order to use a move. As people get better, that will only become less and less viable (not that it's even remotely viable against decent players, but people who are worse than that will become decent players over time, too).

 

[Toxicroaker]

You may be right about that, but I have had it work befort, so I just stick to it. The situation only appears once every other blue moon, but when it does, the reward is amazing. I'm not saying it's a very viable option, but it is an option.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You may be right about that, but I have had it work befort, so I just stick to it. The situation only appears once every other blue moon, but when it does, the reward is amazing. I'm not saying it's a very viable option, but it is an option.

Then there's nothing I can say to you that would change your mind, and you can continue to use suboptimal tactics that will never work on a competent player. In the meantime, when you're trying to edgeguard Mario with an attack that will outrange his Up-B and outright finish the job or Ness with something that is pretty much guaranteed to ruin his recovery, I encourage you to experiment with the other two customs instead of fishing for something that requires your opponent to make really terrible mistakes in order for it to work.

 

[warriorman222]

Then there's nothing I can say to you that would change your mind, and you can continue to use suboptimal tactics that will never work on a competent player. In the meantime, when you're trying to edgeguard Mario with an attack that will outrange his Up-B and outright finish the job or Ness with something that is pretty much guaranteed to ruin his recovery, I encourage you to experiment with the other two customs instead of fishing for something that requires your opponent to make really terrible mistakes in order for it to work.

I choose Sing because I never use any of the Up-Bs, so if i do so by accident, which one is the most useful in a random situation? Possibly doing damage, possibly flipping them, or possibly putting them to sleep?

You're kinda insulting his opinions and options for not agreeing with them. "Then there's nothing I can say to you that would change your mind, and you can continue to use suboptimal tactics that will never work on a competent player". Doesn't that sentence seem a little... not good(I'm at a loss of words here)? It's not just that you make it sound like you've given up on him, but also like you're gonna go out with a vague insult.

Also, i personally experimented with all 3 customs, and when i picked one, I chose Sing. I personally don't think Hyper Voice is THAT better that much of what Jiggly has, and I think Spinphony and Sing are equally niche, so I take the original so if i ever go to a customs-off tourney I'm not further screwed over. We all have different opinions.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I choose Sing because I never use any of the Up-Bs, so if i do so by accident, which one is the most useful in a random situation? Possibly doing damage, possibly flipping them, or possibly putting them to sleep?

You're kinda insulting his opinions and options for not agreeing with them. "Then there's nothing I can say to you that would change your mind, and you can continue to use suboptimal tactics that will never work on a competent player". Doesn't that sentence seem a little... not good(I'm at a loss of words here)? It's not just that you make it sound like you've given up on him, but also like you're gonna go out with a vague insult.

Also, i personally experimented with all 3 customs, and when i picked one, I chose Sing. I personally don't think Hyper Voice is THAT better that much of what Jiggly has, and I think Spinphony and Sing are equally niche, so I take the original so if i ever go to a customs-off tourney I'm not further screwed over. We all have different opinions.

If you have to pick your customs based on what happens when you accidentally do them instead of for potential intentional uses, then you're bad at Smash Brothers. Setting customs for a tournament standard implies that the tournament player knows how to consistently avoid accidentally doing certain options.

I'm not insulting him--If anything, I'm insulting any players who would get hit by such a vulnerable, easy-to-avoid, easy-to-punish tactic. If his response to "more people will continue learn how to use basic spacing against opponents at the ledge, rendering it completely useless," is "well, it worked before, so I'll keep using it," it tells me that he does not consider what happens as players get better, so he just wants to use it on people who will always be bad. That's fine, but you can't expect people keeping up with the metagame to take that seriously.

Believe me, I'm historically a player who tries to squeeze every last drop of potential from moves commonly seen as useless. The way that spacing works in this game prevents a move with so much riding on the opponent putting himself in one of the worst positions possible (even when ignoring Sing as an option) from having any worthwhile use. As I prefaced earlier, the custom Sings are already better by virtue of not requiring opponents to put themselves in a horrible position for way too long in order to get any use out of them. It is almost impossible to force someone into a position where Sing is useful (and all of those situations require you to be on-stage when using it!), while the other two have reasonable requirements for them to get any payoff, payoffs that should end the same way (a KO).

Anecdotal evidence of "it works every now and then" means nothing to the competitive player who is looking for reliable tools that don't only work once (if that, and that requiring an opponent who knows nothing about the matchup).

 

[warriorman222]

If you have to pick your customs based on what happens when you accidentally do them instead of for potential intentional uses, then you're bad at Smash Brothers. Setting customs for a tournament standard implies that the tournament player knows how to consistently avoid accidentally doing certain options.

I'm not insulting him--If anything, I'm insulting any players who would get hit by such a vulnerable, easy-to-avoid, easy-to-punish tactic. If his response to "more people will continue learn how to use basic spacing against opponents at the ledge, rendering it completely useless," is "well, it worked before, so I'll keep using it," it tells me that he does not consider what happens as players get better, so he just wants to use it on people who will always be bad. That's fine, but you can't expect people keeping up with the metagame to take that seriously.

Believe me, I'm historically a player who tries to squeeze every last drop of potential from moves commonly seen as useless. The way that spacing works in this game prevents a move with so much riding on the opponent putting himself in one of the worst positions possible (even when ignoring Sing as an option) from having any worthwhile use. As I prefaced earlier, the custom Sings are already better by virtue of not requiring opponents to put themselves in a horrible position for way too long in order to get any use out of them. It is almost impossible to force someone into a position where Sing is useful (and all of those situations require you to be on-stage when using it!), while the other two have reasonable requirements for them to get any payoff, payoffs that should end the same way (a KO).

Anecdotal evidence of "it works every now and then" means nothing to the competitive player who is looking for reliable tools that don't only work once (if that, and that requiring an opponent who knows nothing about the matchup).

I don't pick all my customs based on that,.I find all Sings versions useless, and one simply more than the other (Hyper Voice). Each of them have potential uses that don't fit well with my playstyle because of the way the move works, leaving you immobile when I want to be mobile. I also didn't even say i'd pick my customs based of that. I probably wouldn't use a Sing variant unless it's broken, it doesn't fit with me.

Ok, so you like to find potential in moves that people see as useless. That's fine, nothing wrong with that. Just, I don't. Not something wrong, but I'll pick one thing, and get better with it. And I chose sing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You shouldn't pick -any- customs based on what happens when you accidentally do them, because you should never accidentally do them. x_x

The problem with "getting better with Sing" is that it largely depends on your opponent to majorly screw up, positioning/timing, rather than your thoughtful placement of Sing. There is almost nothing to "get better with," while as opponents improve, they will make those mistakes less often, so it's usefulness can basically only get worse.

 

[warriorman222]

You shouldn't pick -any- customs based on what happens when you accidentally do them, because you should never accidentally do them. x_x

The problem with "getting better with Sing" is that it largely depends on your opponent to majorly screw up, positioning/timing, rather than your thoughtful placement of Sing. There is almost nothing to "get better with," while as opponents improve, they will make those mistakes less often, so it's usefulness can basically only get worse.

I don't pick customs based on what i accidentally do with them. I literally said i don't do that x_x

You may have a point with Sing, but what if someone finds different ways to apply it? I want to find a use for the move, even if i use it rarely.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I don't pick customs based on what i accidentally do with them. I literally said i don't do that x_x

You may have a point with Sing, but what if someone finds different ways to apply it? I want to find a use for the move, even if i use it rarely.

But...

I choose Sing because I never use any of the Up-Bs, so if i do so by accident, which one is the most useful in a random situation? Possibly doing damage, possibly flipping them, or possibly putting them to sleep?

I don't pick all my customs based on that.

Emphasis on the second quote added via bold/italics/underline, but I didn't change any words. I don't know what to tell you. I don't think there's much room for interpretation there.

I'd be very excited to see some new and interesting application for the move, but until that happens, there doesn't seem to be any merit worth putting into slots in the tournament sets before then.

 

[Toxicroaker]

I'm not trying to argue. I understand all of your points, and agree with most of them. In fact, you are most likely right. However, I will continue to use sing. I have almost never found a time when a simple nair won't do better than hyper voice. Though, I don't understand your opinion that a move should not rely on the opponent making a mistake. If there was a good alternative, I would say sing isn't worth it, but hyper voice isn't useful enough for me to do that.

I will say that the ledge-drop sing was a bad reason for me to defend it. To be completely honest, I was on for glory when I did it. I think that's all I need to say.

Anyways, I'm not saying that one is better than the other, I'm just saying that I like using sing more, and it has worked out in my favor.

 

[Rakurai]

You can combo into the rising hitbox of Leaping Rest at KO percents off of an up throw, uair, Pound, or pretty much anything else with vertical knockback if you're positioned correctly.

I think it ought to be considered for some sets, since it's basically sacrificing a strong punish for a reliable KO confirm.

 

[19_]

You can combo into the rising hitbox of Leaping Rest at KO percents off of an up throw, uair, Pound, or pretty much anything else with vertical knockback if you're positioned correctly.

I think it ought to be considered for some sets, since it's basically sacrificing a strong punish for a reliable KO confirm.

LEAPING REST IS INSANE.

I honestly feel like this move is one of the best moves in the game because of how quick it comes out, and how long the hitbox can last.

Up throw to Leaping rest is a guaranteed kill combo at 60~80 percent and this is only scratching the surface.

 

[Perso]

I don't understand how everyone seems to be dismissing rollout. It's an excellent mixup tool. Each of the custom rollout options have their own uses and I will attempt to explain each.

Standard Rollout (Neutral-1): Excellent for surprise mixups and baiting. Held for around a second it'll hit for 9% and for around 2 second it'll be fully charged and deal 14% damage. Can be reversed a maximum of three times (while beginning reverse there's no hitbox until the turnaround so can be used to go through counters). Upon hit goes into a forever spin until hitting the ground or KO. Because of this using as recovery is a bad idea. Can be charged infinitely so if anyone gets hasty on a counter you can easily hold it for long enough to hit while they're stuck in the counter endlag.
tl;dr: Quick charge time (don't need to fully charge for effectiveness), Can be Reversed Thrice, Infinite Charge, can kill at higher percents.

Relentless Rollout (Neutral-2): Wonderful Recovery mixups. Slightly faster charge time than Standard but only around 2% per hit. Moves incredibly fast even on a short charge. Goes through opponents so no chance of a forever spin. No momentum lost when used aerially. Can be reversed 3 times (though third reverse is short and won't hit anything)
tl;dr: Quick charge for safer aerial offstage recovery and quick getaway.

Raging Rollout (Neutral-3) Terrific damager! Shortest charge is around 2 seconds it will do 11% on hit. Fully charged takes around 4 seconds and hits for a massive 23% damage with excellent knockback. Once let go Jigglypuff shoots off at blazing speeds, so fast that no opponent will have time to react. Goes through shields, this hit is literally unblockable. Opponents must dodge aerially (as in jump), get a lucky well timed spot dodge/roll, or have an active hitbox out. No reversal properties.
tl;dr: Literally unblockable, quick hit with no chance for an unprepared reaction, high damage and knockback that kills at mid-high percents.

Personally I like standard because of reversal mixups, but Raging Rollout would be my second pick with its unblockable damage. Perhaps those throwing out N3 haven't actually tested it?

 

[Jiggly]

I don't understand how everyone seems to be dismissing rollout. It's an excellent mixup tool. Each of the custom rollout options have their own uses and I will attempt to explain each.

Standard Rollout (Neutral-1): Excellent for surprise mixups and baiting. Held for around a second it'll hit for 9% and for around 2 second it'll be fully charged and deal 14% damage. Can be reversed a maximum of three times (while beginning reverse there's no hitbox until the turnaround so can be used to go through counters). Upon hit goes into a forever spin until hitting the ground or KO. Because of this using as recovery is a bad idea. Can be charged infinitely so if anyone gets hasty on a counter you can easily hold it for long enough to hit while they're stuck in the counter endlag.
tl;dr: Quick charge time (don't need to fully charge for effectiveness), Can be Reversed Thrice, Infinite Charge, can kill at higher percents.

Relentless Rollout (Neutral-2): Wonderful Recovery mixups. Slightly faster charge time than Standard but only around 2% per hit. Moves incredibly fast even on a short charge. Goes through opponents so no chance of a forever spin. No momentum lost when used aerially. Can be reversed 3 times (though third reverse is short and won't hit anything)
tl;dr: Quick charge for safer aerial offstage recovery and quick getaway.

Raging Rollout (Neutral-3) Terrific damager! Shortest charge is around 2 seconds it will do 11% on hit. Fully charged takes around 4 seconds and hits for a massive 23% damage with excellent knockback. Once let go Jigglypuff shoots off at blazing speeds, so fast that no opponent will have time to react. Goes through shields, this hit is literally unblockable. Opponents must dodge aerially (as in jump), get a lucky well timed spot dodge/roll, or have an active hitbox out. No reversal properties.
tl;dr: Literally unblockable, quick hit with no chance for an unprepared reaction, high damage and knockback that kills at mid-high percents.

Personally I like standard because of reversal mixups, but Raging Rollout would be my second pick with its unblockable damage. Perhaps those throwing out N3 haven't actually tested it?

With how long rollout is present during startup, it's easy to just jump up and get to a platform. With Raging rollout, just grab a ledge and get ready. The 3rd rollout is really just a thing that's good in early meta against people who dont know anything about customs.

The only one i see getting used is N2 for a recovery mixup, but besides that rollout is meh in my opinion.

By the way, welcome to the site, and the puff boards! ^_^

 

[Perso]

With how long rollout is present during startup, it's easy to just jump up and get to a platform. With Raging rollout, just grab a ledge and get ready. The 3rd rollout is really just a thing that's good in early meta against people who dont know anything about customs.

The only one i see getting used is N2 for a recovery mixup, but besides that rollout is meh in my opinion.

By the way, welcome to the site, and the puff boards! ^_^

Which is why in a customs metagame you could switch depending on stage selected. Rollout can be useful on stages with few or no platforms (Final Destination + Omega, Pilot Wings, Town & City to name a few). Besides, if you just force an opponent to keep going to the ledge you're gaining stage control so there's no loss.

But I'll admit Rollout is a horrible move to throw out without thought and can be 100% useless in many matchups due to the presence of projectiles. So you really just need to know when you can throw it out (like when an opponent misses a tech) as a good mixup on occasion.

Anyways I have a 3DS with all of Jiggs customs unlocked so I could make a set up with N3 if I ever deemed it necessary for myself.

Thanks for the welcome! I felt this forum needed more insight from another decent Puff main haha.

 

[Codaption]

Personally, I don't see Rollout as USELESS, just a bit of a one-trick pony. The I like to use it is to charge it offstage to fly over the opponent's head (thus avoiding most edgeguarding situations), and then wheeling back on them to knock them offstage to begin MY edgeguard. It's also fun on stage to use it at full charge and watch them shield it, and then just turn around and ram back I to them. (It tends to work for me because the opponent has usually dropped the shield by then, although this might not be the case in tourney play.)

The problem with both of these, especially the latter one, is that you can usually see them coming a mile away, and react accordingly. Both can simply be shielded or even jumped over.

That being said, you could potentially use them to condition the opponent as well. The first method usually has more success in my experience (due to it not really being a commonly used tactic, the opponent might not have even SEEN it before), although as I said, it's a one-trick pony. Of course.... It's somewhat vulnerable to jumping if you try to use it again, but it's even MORE vulnerable to shielding....which would likely cause them to use that method more often. After that, you can try the first method....as stated above, they usually tend to drop their shield after the first hit, but even if they keep the shield up they suffer heavy shield damage as a result.

If you can find creative ways to use a move, it can take your opponent completely by surprise....sing and its variations are still useless in my eyes, though.

(By the way, is there a general Jigglypuff discussion thread somebody could link me to? Im pretty new here, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!)

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Why would they shield when they can beat Rollout with a grab or attack? If they're not staggered by a previous move already, it's trivial to punish.

It can be pretty useful when they miss a tech or are dealing with something else, but in neutral it's just not a safe or efficient tool.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So the current Jigglypuff sets are:

1321
1322
1122
3121
3321
3131

We can fill her sets out to 10 slots for EVO purposes. I'd claim to have great insights on this character, but I'd be lying. Do we need to drop any of the current six (noting our goal is to make everyone happy), and either way, what four would be good to add to this? I legitimately don't know where to go with this character from here.

 

[mimgrim]

I think the best place to start is 1121, 1131, 1112, 1122, 1132 as they get the main things done. After that Pound Blitz variants and Raging Rollout variants seem to be the next most reliable place to go to for customs Puff.

 

[Macchiato]

Why isn't the sideways pound an option? It's great for gimping characters with bad horizonatal recovery.

So the current Jigglypuff sets are:

1321
1322
1122
3121
3321
3131

We can fill her sets out to 10 slots for EVO purposes. I'd claim to have great insights on this character, but I'd be lying. Do we need to drop any of the current six (noting our goal is to make everyone happy), and either way, what four would be good to add to this? I legitimately don't know where to go with this character from here.

We should drop 3131, spin phony is useless with practically no use. I think we should replace it with 3222. Sideways pound has great use in some match-ups so it should have at least one set with it

 

[mimgrim]

Because Jiggs is already very good at gimping and doesn't need any help in that department. Fair/Nair/Bair are already fantastic gimping moves against many character and are way better then Sideways Pound because they are faster and still send at a fantastic angle.

Pound is the best of the Pounds but I know Blitz has some love to it.

All Roll-outs are bad and should never realistically be used so I take back what I said about having Raging variants and that it should just stick with default to keep room open.

Sing is also meh but I know some people still like it, realistically you shouldn't be using any of the Up Special unless you are ledge canceling them and the other 2 variants are better because they also affect people in the air with one doing damage and the other having a cape like affect.

So with that said our set-ups should be; 1121, 1131, 1112, 1122, 1132, 1321, 1331, 1322, 1332, and 1311 (or some other Blitz variant if you want).

Anything else is very dubious in all honesty. Heck, Blitz is dubious enough, as is Sing. But eh, she doesn't have a lot of benefit from customs in the first place.

 

[Jiggly]

I really want to add 1211 as a set, as horizontal pound helps us in MUs with characters who have vertical recoveries, helps with gimping, and gives us an easy way to kill luma in the rosa matchup. It's the same move, with a different directional hitbox. What's not to like?

Edit: all the sing variants are worse than sing. Anything with sing variants don't need to exists imo. The only things we shoul really mess with are the rollout variant that moves through opponents (a little, some people want a non-exploitable rollout recovery) a lot of pound, and leaping rest, if we could make those variants into sets, we'd be good.

So we have:
1xxx
2xxx
x1xx
x2xx
x3xx
xx1x
xxx1
xxx2

Those should be made into optimal sets. Leaping rest should only ever be used on a pound blitz set.

So these are what I propose:

1211
1312
2111
2211
2312

Maybe more leaping rest sets if they are popular, but these should be the base sets.

 

[mimgrim]

The Sing variants are better then sing and for one simple reason. They actually affect people in the air which gives them an actual use when being ledge cancel (the only reasonable way you should ever be using an Up Special variant). Sing is bad and the other variants are also bad but they are just less bad.

Horizontal Pound (or w/e the hell it is called) isn't needed as Jiggs is already a master with gimping, getting help for something you are already good at is pointless when you could use something else. IIRC this move barely moves Jiggs anywhere which ends up making it smaller overall and loses out on what makes Pound good.

Having Rollout variants is pointless because they are all equally bad and should never be used in a match anyways.

 

[Jiggly]

The Sing variants are better then sing and for one simple reason. They actually affect people in the air which gives them an actual use when being ledge cancel (the only reasonable way you should ever be using an Up Special variant). Sing is bad and the other variants are also bad but they are just less bad.

Horizontal Pound (or w/e the hell it is called) isn't needed as Jiggs is already a master with gimping, getting help for something you are already good at is pointless when you could use something else. IIRC this move barely moves Jiggs anywhere which ends up making it smaller overall and loses out on what makes Pound good.

Having Rollout variants is pointless because they are all equally bad and should never be used in a match anyways.

Horizontal pound isn't useless lol. pound atm is only for damage, where horizontal pound does damage and helps set up gimps, and helps out with gimps due to it having more knockback than nair and fair at low percetns, which can help for early kills. Sing is pretty bad, but the other ones aren't good enough where they can take up slots. I would only ever use a rollout variant if I plan on going really deep horizontally due to the opponent having a good recovery, so if you dont have many jumps, relentless rollout can be used to recover to the edge, without an opponent intercepting you. It is something that many puffs do, but not myself. Spinphony shouldn't have any use, because it only happens twice, and it damages so that if people try to recover, they can just recover agian. It's not a good option. And hyper voice is as punishable as rest, and even if it hits in the air, it does 4% and leaves you wide open. It doesn't give you an edge in matchups, where the other customs do. I am totally cool with the rollout customs being cut, but I can not allow you to say that horizontal pound is bad, because it can change many matchups, especially against high tier characters like rosalina.

 

[JarOfPlasma]

Relentless Rollout is the only viable Rollout because it has recovery potential.

 

[Jiggly]

Relentless Rollout is the only viable Rollout because it has recovery potential.

normal rollout is a great tech punish

 

[JarOfPlasma]

True.

Just from my experience though, I'm sticking with RR.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
Jigglypuff:

1/3, 1/3, 2, 1/2 niche: 2XXX, X2XX

1122, 1321, 1322, 3121, 3122, 3321, 3322
niche: 2121, 2122, 1221

I left out 1121 because, while I think the consensus is that Hyper Voice is the best up special among generally dreadful options, up-2 over up-1 is a trivial optimization and it is more in Jigglypuff's interest to have an additional unique set and to just pick default for 11X1. Otherwise I tried to follow what you guys have been suggesting and what seems to be agreed to be the most important options to have as closely as I could. Let me know if you want it to be different; this is just preliminary.