Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[Sixfortyfive]

IIRC, the deadline is the 27th, but AA wants it done by the 17th.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Quickhero]

IIRC, the deadline is the 27th, but AA wants it done by the 17th.

Oh shoot haha, you're right. I thought 17th was the true deadline and that he was going to submit all the sets on the 7th. My bad.

@Raijinken 1123 is there haha, I never saw a need to put 1121 since it was the easiest to replace as 1123 is generally superior than 1121 since Iai Counter does much more damage as well as sends the opponent behind you, it only really has troubles with lingering hitboxes like Villager's U-Smash and the slightly lowered frames. I don't think taking Crescent Slash is very optimal against Villager in the first place, so there really was no reason to keep 1121.

 

[Raijinken]

Oh shoot haha, you're right. I thought 17th was the true deadline and that he was going to submit all the sets on the 7th. My bad.

@Raijinken 1123 is there haha, I never saw a need to put 1121 since it was the easiest to replace as 1123 is generally superior than 1121 since Iai Counter does much more damage as well as sends the opponent behind you, it only really has troubles with lingering hitboxes like Villager's U-Smash and the slightly lowered frames. I don't think taking Crescent Slash is very optimal against Villager in the first place, so there really was no reason to keep 1121.

Fair enough. Counter's a situational enough move that, especially since I use it for edgeguarding as often as not, I'm not yet a real fan of Iai. Not like it matters overmuch to me, as I'm not going to Evo, though I'll probably put the Full List on my console just for simplicity/completion's sake once it's finalized.

 

[NegaMawile]

Could Springing Headbutt (Sonic's Up 3) have a use against Bowser, Link, Yoshi, Toon Lonk, anybody else who you don't want to chase with a basic Spring Jump chase? It's also the only move he ha that puts out two immediate hit boxes (himself 3% and the Spring 4%) would that be useful for offstage control? Or as an OoS option?

Maybe something like BSD -> Springing Headbutt -> Aerial?

Maybe a set like Stomp/Burning Spin Dash/Springing Headbutt/(Auto)Spin Charge against Link/Tink/Bowser and others?

His specials are so in the middle, that 1-1-1-1 just serves as a catch all most if the time.
Argh!

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

To clarify, yes, there is still an ample amount of time. A few boards already have pretty much figured out what they want, and that's great! Many others have not, and that's fine as they still have time. We're doing a status check on all of the boards this weekend and seeing if we can get preliminary thoughts together, but yeah, we're aiming to be done by the 17th with the true deadline of the 27th.

 

[Teshie U]

Could Springing Headbutt (Sonic's Up 3) have a use against Bowser, Link, Yoshi, Toon Lonk, anybody else who you don't want to chase with a basic Spring Jump chase? It's also the only move he ha that puts out two immediate hit boxes (himself 3% and the Spring 4%) would that be useful for offstage control? Or as an OoS option?

Maybe something like BSD -> Springing Headbutt -> Aerial?

Maybe a set like Stomp/Burning Spin Dash/Springing Headbutt/(Auto)Spin Charge against Link/Tink/Bowser and others?

His specials are so in the middle, that 1-1-1-1 just serves as a catch all most if the time.
Argh!

As far as we know, auto spin charge does quite literally nothing and isn't worth representing. Its just a weaker version that doesn't require you to tap B a couple of times.

Stomp could have some use for linear recoveries, but you could also just down air those people.

Characters with strong dair/dive attacks are the ones you NEED the versatility of default spring, You can spring to their sides and Bair, Spring past and dair. Lots of good things there. IIRC Sonic didn't have many sets. I wouldn't see harm in giving these unknown attacks some rep.

 

[NegaMawile]

As far as we know, auto spin charge does quite literally nothing and isn't worth representing. Its just a weaker version that doesn't require you to tap B a couple of times.

Stomp could have some use for linear recoveries, but you could also just down air those people.

Characters with strong dair/dive attacks are the ones you NEED the versatility of default spring, You can spring to their sides and Bair, Spring past and dair. Lots of good things there. IIRC Sonic didn't have many sets. I wouldn't see harm in giving these unknown attacks some rep.

Stomp has the benefit that hitting it at any point still spikes, Dair is frame specific or else it knocks them upwards. Dair also sends you at a crappy position forcing you to use all of your recovery options to survive. You know this already of course.

Perhaps Stomp fits better on any set not using Spring Jump. Maybe a Stomp Double Spring set. I'm literally just throwing ideas out.

Oh and Double Spring also has the benefit of above stage mix ups. You're able to follow their DI accordingly and limit them from their. It increases Sonic's presence as a persuer off the ground. In my opinion.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

To clarify, yes, there is still an ample amount of time. A few boards already have pretty much figured out what they want, and that's great! Many others have not, and that's fine as they still have time. We're doing a status check on all of the boards this weekend and seeing if we can get preliminary thoughts together, but yeah, we're aiming to be done by the 17th with the true deadline of the 27th.

Which characters need to step it up?

 

[DunnoBro]

I don't think either version of homing attack counts as a decent approach. People can just throw out a powerful hitbox and you will just run into it.

Was referring to side/downB, not homing.

Also, almost done with figurin out the DHD sets I want.

 

[Splash Damage]

We've only a day? Wow, time to hard lab.

 

[thehard]

We've only a day? Wow, time to hard lab.

The 17th.

 

[Splash Damage]

The 17th.

Ah, Welp nice to know I have more time them.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Ah, Welp nice to know I have more time them.

I'd still suggest labbing sooner rather than later.

 

[Splash Damage]

I'd still suggest labbing sooner rather than later.

I have already for Mac which is all i really needed to, but I was planning on helping out the Shulk boards as well. Nice to know i have a buffer and some extra time

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I have a question about Diddy's alternate Banana peels; what makes them all that worse from his original peel? The shocking peel seems effective for being able to stop folks in place. Combine that with his rocketbarrel attack and it seems like that could be terribly effective.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I have a question about Diddy's alternate Banana peels; what makes them all that worse from his original peel? The shocking peel seems effective for being able to stop folks in place. Combine that with his rocketbarrel attack and it seems like that could be terribly effective.

Given how Diddy uses his peel most of the time (throw it in your face and then grab you) what does the shocking peel offer that improves his game?

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Given how Diddy uses his peel most of the time (throw it in your face and then grab you) what does the shocking peel offer that improves his game?

What about the battering peel that lifts you into the air and leaves you vulnerable to his aerials? And what about rocketbarrel attack?

 

[Balgorxz]

diddy is a flowchart character, their customs aren't so people don't prefer it since his customs are more about making plays.
I think they are pretty useful but diddy mains won't touch them for a while unless its a new player which main isn't diddy taat wants to try new stuff.

 

[Raijinken]

Battering Peel can be alright on low-ceiling stages and whatnot, but it's not stronger than banana->hoohah. Rocketbarrel Attack, though... I've heard that may be worth looking into.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Rocketbarrel attack makes me nervous on many levels. That's something that kills incredibly early; especially on players who don't know the extent of it. I worry about blaming custom moves as a whole if that gets involved.

 

[Piford]

Rocketbarrel attack makes me nervous on many levels. That's something that kills incredibly early; especially on players who don't know the extent of it. I worry about blaming custom moves as a whole if that gets involved.

Doesn't it make Diddy's recovery almost non-existent. Doesn't really seem like it'd be a problem except on maybe Halberd, which you should be banning against Diddy Kong anyways.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Rocketbarrel attack makes me nervous on many levels. That's something that kills incredibly early; especially on players who don't know the extent of it. I worry about blaming custom moves as a whole if that gets involved.

That's silly to worry about. I remember people used to think that Greninja's Shifting Shuriken and Sheik's Gravity Grenades were "omg so op customs are ruining da metagame!!!", and even if that were the case those two moves could have been banned. If Rocketbarrel Attack starts raising some eyes, that move itself can be banned. Anyone blaming customs as a whole is uninformed, as some characters have great customs that improve them but don't make them overpowered (aka most of the cast) and some have nearly useless ones (i.e. most of MK's and Zelda's.)

 

[thehard]

Show me that footage of Rocket Barrel Attack dominating tournaments. Show me that footage of Rocket Barrel Attack CONNECTING with an opponent.

Don't scare yourself with theorycrafting.

 

[Pazx]

If you don't play Diddy I'd chill about his customs, they're all sidegrades at best. I personally prefer Battering Banana Peel on stages with high ceilings, and I'm looking into Rocketbarrel Attack. It kills early but I doubt it has any hitconfirm -> KO setups and requires a read in most instances, and the recovery nerf is significant. If the meta gets to a stage where gimping vanilla Diddy's recovery is both common and expected then I could see it being used more often.

 

[Teshie U]

Shocking banana peel is surprisingly bad. I had hoped it would give some reliable stun midair, but the only really way to get a decent frame advantage on it, is to have someone run, roll or be pushed into it. In such a case, tripping is much better.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

As an aside, anyone who is a serious King Dedede player could really help us out by voting in this poll:

http://smashboards.com/threads/what-is-king-dededes-best-down-special-custom.393959/

And anyone who is a serious Palutena player could do something similar:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NTXNLFP

We'll be posting in every topic in the next few days; these are two notable cases where we need some fairly particular input for those characters and have already reached out to those particular boards for it.

As per which character boards could seriously, seriously do with some more discussion and are the characters of greatest urgency, I'm going to have to highlight the Pits (both of them), Fox, and Wario. The Pits have just not given us a lot to go on in figuring out what's going on and what's important with their sets, and Fox/Wario have the problem of seemingly way too many important builds to include and we need substantial help narrowing. Progress isn't even with the other 47 characters (some are essentially done, some clearly need the remaining week and a half), but we're on a pretty good route to getting them resolved.

 

[thehard]

As an aside, anyone who is a serious King Dedede player could really help us out by voting in this poll:

http://smashboards.com/threads/what-is-king-dededes-best-down-special-custom.393959/

And anyone who is a serious Palutena player could do something similar:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NTXNLFP

We'll be posting in every topic in the next few days; these are two notable cases where we need some fairly particular input for those characters and have already reached out to those particular boards for it.

As per which character boards could seriously, seriously do with some more discussion and are the characters of greatest urgency, I'm going to have to highlight the Pits (both of them), Fox, and Wario. The Pits have just not given us a lot to go on in figuring out what's going on and what's important with their sets, and Fox/Wario have the problem of seemingly way too many important builds to include and we need substantial help narrowing. Progress isn't even with the other 47 characters (some are essentially done, some clearly need the remaining week and a half), but we're on a pretty good route to getting them resolved.

Any reason you only allowed Palutena 8 choices?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We already know Palutena is going to be using 2312 and 2322. Those sets are already locked; it's the other 8 where it seems really up in the air.

 

[Teshie U]

EVO wont allow importing, but couldnt any palutena set or any default mii set just be made on the spot anyway?

 

[Raijinken]

EVO wont allow importing, but couldnt any palutena set or any default mii set just be made on the spot anyway?

Reasonably, yes, but it still takes time to save, and I doubt they'd allow that.

 

[thehard]

Actually that's a good point. I'm asking now

 

[John12346]

I've mentioned this multiple times, but I am a staunch supporter of tournaments allowing imports DURING the event, provided you're not some crazy national scale tourney that would run into a mess of time issues if run(EVO, for example). When we create the 10 sets for each character, we're going to list them out in order of perceived importance as well, so when tournies start loading this project onto WiiUs, and people want to import sets that are not present, they can do so by deleting the last set or two off the list.

I want to make sure this project emphasizes that point to a great extent when's all said and done.

 

[Piford]

I've mentioned this multiple times, but I am a staunch supporter of tournaments allowing imports DURING the event, provided you're not some crazy national scale tourney that would run into a mess of time issues if run(EVO, for example). When we create the 10 sets for each character, we're going to list them out in order of perceived importance as well, so when tournies start loading this project onto WiiUs, and people want to import sets that are not present, they can do so by deleting the last set or two off the list.

I want to make sure this project emphasizes that point to a great extent when's all said and done.

I'm pretty sure there's going to be 8 mandatory sets and 2 optional ones.

 

[Protom]

I'm glad that 2222 and 3333 sets aren't a thing anymore (except for I think Ike and Kirby it is?)
Having two more slots really allows for more flexibility with deciding on sets..

 

[Raijinken]

I'm glad that 2222 and 3333 sets aren't a thing anymore (except for I think Ike and Kirby it is?)
Having two more slots really allows for more flexibility with deciding on sets..

I'd support 2222 on Ganondorf as well, but yea, that's about the extent of it. Though I can't deny they've been useful for my friends who don't have many unlocked who don't want to waste the rest of our time by going to menus to look at descriptions.

 

[AccountsDept]

Have we ever considered, like, a "dynamic poll", taking feedback on specific data on certain customs on how to place them inside sets? Like, instead of "Which custom set is the best?", ask more than one question, like, "List three pairs of customs that you think work well together.", "What is the best set for Diddy Kong [insert matchup here]?"

 

[Macchiato]

That's silly to worry about. I remember people used to think that Greninja's Shifting Shuriken and Sheik's Gravity Grenades were "omg so op customs are ruining da metagame!!!", and even if that were the case those two moves could have been banned. If Rocketbarrel Attack starts raising some eyes, that move itself can be banned. Anyone blaming customs as a whole is uninformed, as some characters have great customs that improve them but don't make them overpowered (aka most of the cast) and some have nearly useless ones (i.e. most of MK's and Zelda's.)

I wouldn't say more than 2 of zeldas customs are useless. Atm it's really just passion and windfall.
Rejection is great in a load of match ups
Both dins are match up dependent. Same with the phantom.
Squall well, it depends on if someone can actually master it in time. If they master it then it'll be a devestating move.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Something that occurred to me: does Japan play with customs and are they aware that this project exists? It'd kinda suck if they didn't know that they'd be dealing with premade sets. Is Evo gonna post the project list when they lock in the rules?

 

[Piford]

Something that occurred to me: does Japan play with customs and are they aware that this project exists? It'd kinda suck if they didn't know that they'd be dealing with premade sets. Is Evo gonna post the project list when they lock in the rules?

Japan doesn't play with customs (or our stage list). It's likely any Japanese player planning on attending EVO knows it's using Custom Moves. I assume the ruleset is either going to contain or link to the list of Custom Moves it will be using.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

It's worth noting that Japan isn't a hivemind any more than we are. Even if they don't run a lot of custom tournaments, I'm sure many actual Japanese players are quite familiar with the system.