Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Bowser Jr.

[guedes the brawler]

Side b > uair > uair
side b > weak uair > fair
side b > up b
side b > up b > hammer
side b > dair > side b > dair
side b > dair > fair
side b > footstool > up b > hammer

The list goes on.

i get it, you don't consider the hammer part of up-b like i do. that's the problem here.

the strong hit of ejected clown car + explosion + strong hammer hit = 33%. with the weak hits, it's only 25 tho... but side B3 let's you get it right every time, though i think so can footstool (but it's more troublesome). Side B1 is also weaker than side b 3 ( a 4% difference) and it's faster too. oh, and let's not ignroe how the combo stops working at higher percentages because the car pops them up too far for the explosion which is a moot point with buried foes (who stay buried longer, even)

i'm not sure what's the damage on these combos you listed but, i'm pretty sure they aren't 33% or 41%.


This needs testig but it has no special effect if it hits in the air, so the combos might still work under those circunstances.


also, how does the normal MK interact with buried foes? i lost my save data and need to unlock jr and his customs again, so i can't test it.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Now imagine a situation where you're getting walled out with good projectile coverage ala Megaman, Duckhunt, or Villager and can very rarely actually approach with side-1. The super armor of Side-3 and multiple hitboxes of Side-2 that fizzle most projectiles become much more appealing.

I'd suggest just getting better and actually learning how to punish and approach those characters, but to each their own.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5EVKUWxXYc

i'm not sure what's the damage on these combos you listed but, i'm pretty sure they aren't 33% or 41%.

Really? Have you not actually played bjr enough to know his bnb's? This is my point. It really feels like the people suggesting this stuff haven't used bjr extensively in a tournament setting. All of these do 25% or more, and having 10+ combos available to you is substantially better than having one that will work some of the time and do a bit more damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5EVKUWxXYc

 

[Reaperfan]

I'd suggest just getting better and actually learning how to punish and approach those characters, but to each their own.

When theorycrafting (which "the value of a move" falls under as a topic) I'm going to assume my opponent and I are of equal skill. "Be better than your opponent" isn't an argument for or against a particular strategy as it can apply to all situations across every character and move. It has no bearing on more specialized subjects like "which custom is better based on various situations." It's why no matchup in any game ever is 10-0, because a skilled player can always beat a less skilled player.

You can't always count on just being better than your opponent to overcome a disadvantage.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Wow, what?

Learning how to play your character does not equate to being better than your opponent.

"Be better than your opponent"

Mind telling me where you pulled that quote from? Because not only did I not say it, you completely fabricated the point and then made a counter argument to something I never said or meant.

 

[W.A.C.]

One thing I think we can all agree on is that side special 3 has to be paired with up special 1, up special 2 has to be paired with side special 2, and up special 3 (if used at all) has to be paired with side special 2. Otherwise, his recovery options are too limited for him to be viable at a high level of play. Up special 1 and side special 2 could be part of many different configurations though.

 

[Reaperfan]

Wow, what?

Learning how to play your character does not equate to being better than your opponent.


Mind telling me where you pulled that quote from? Because not only did I not say it, you completely fabricated the point and then made a counter argument to something I never said or meant.

Quotation marks are somewhat difficult in text-based conversations because they're used both as indicators of direct quotes and separators for paraphrased thoughts that may not otherwise have fit in a sentence. In this case, they were meant to be used in the latter sense.

Player skill is hard to define and its definition varies slightly from person to person, but for me it's a combination of a player's technical knowledge, technical execution, overall knowledge of the game, and being able to understand and read the layers of yomi. Said another way, to me, a player's skill can generally be equated to the sum of their knowledge of the game both in a meta and technical sense, their ability to control their character, and their ability to mindgame their opponent. So when you say something like "just get better and learn how to read and outperform your opponent" (there's that second-type usage again) that to me implies a message akin to "all you have to do is be a better player than your opponent."

So it wasn't meant as direct quote from you (normally I would actually use the forum's quote option when I mean to do that). It was my way of phrasing the implications I got from your previous statement.

I forget who said it, but I'm reminded of the quote that went something like "language is the greatest barrier to communication" (still the second use, because it's a paraphrase rather than an actual quote). But that's conversation on the internet for you, eh?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On subject, basically the way I see your argument is that you've gotten very comfortable with the playstyle created by his default moves. His default moves are definitely good, but the thing about custom moves is they have the potential to change playstyle as a whole. Maybe with Grounding Dash and Giant Mechakoopa we could play a super aggressive Bowser Jr without focusing so much on a zoning game. Maybe with Koopa Drift you could focus less on a combo game and more on a hit-and-run style gameplay. But we won't know unless we discuss their merits and put them to practice.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

That's a hell of an assumption to make haha. I've competed in countless weeklies with customs being legal. I've done my experimenting. Theory crafting is fun, but its easy to forget that the person you're talking to might actually have practical experience in the new ideas you're just coming up with for the first time. I've tried his customs. There are some hilarious gimmicks that can win you a game if your opponent is slow to adapt but are ultimately nerfs.

You're allowed to use whatever sets you want. I'm just telling you as someone who has played 100+ IRL tournament games with bjr at this date that some things work better than others. Its frustrating because I'm going to evo and if the custom move set lists correspond to the whims of people who are like " hey i just unlocked all his customs and X is the optimal set. I'm allowed to say this with no cursory knowledge of the character because I spent 20 minutes vs a CPU with them!" Then I'm going to have a bad time. Not everyone's opinion is created equal and the move set list in place already is a goddamn travesty.

 

[Reaperfan]

You're allowed to use whatever sets you want. I'm just telling you as someone who has played 100+ IRL tournament games with bjr at this date that some things work better than others. Its frustrating because I'm going to evo and if the custom move set lists correspond to the whims of people who are like " hey i just unlocked all his customs and X is the optimal set. I'm allowed to say this with no cursory knowledge of the character because I spent 20 minutes vs a CPU with them!" Then I'm going to have a bad time. Not everyone's opinion is created equal and the move set list in place already is a goddamn travesty.

That's awesome, I hope you do well at EVO

As far as I can see, 3113 is already on the proposed "new 10" list, and 1111 is always available regardless of the list. As far as your case is concerned, you just need to find another one on the list and argue for that particular loadout's redundancy and then reinforce the arguments you've used for 3111 to fill it's slot and you're good to go.

But denouncing all of his other moves is not the best way to do that and holds back other players who's playstyles may favor those moves, even if you find those moves suboptimal.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Understandable, but my point remains. I see where you're coming from but on the last page alone there's a wall of text from someone who literally just finished unlocking bjrs customs. The fact that that happens all the time and most of the people in this thread don't even consider bjr their main leaves me speechless as to why they're given stock in the first place.

I feel like if you have a play style that benefits from the other customs then you might actually be suited to play another character instead. This is not me saying "don't play bjr unless you follow these guidelines" just that other characters have better super armour and better 1 hit kill potential and you'll probably get super frustrated trying to make bjr work in a high level competitive situation with his universal drawbacks.

Edit: will make a post debunking some of the proposed sets once I'm done work

 

[W.A.C.]

I see where you're coming from but on the last page alone there's a wall of text from someone who literally just finished unlocking bjrs customs.

I didn't bother to unlock the custom moves because tournaments weren't allowing them, so I didn't see much point in trying to learn how to play with them. But now that custom moves will be allowed at tournaments and I had time this weekend to deal with the ridiculous random grindfest for unlocking custom moves, it took me over 12 hours to unlock both Meta Knight's and Larry's custom moves. Not to mention I spent awhile playing around with their custom moves (mostly Larry's since MK's customs are ehhhhh). I absolutely hate the randomization with unlocking them. That's part of why I haven't bothered until recently.

While I suppose it would've been nice if I had more experience with customs before making my post and influencing this list, the list pretty much dictates what customs will be allowed at tournaments. Figured I might as well give some thoughts before things get finalized. Also worth mentioning that Larry is my second most used character at tournaments and Meta Knight is my third most used character in general. Diddy is my #1, yet I don't have all of his custom moves because most of them make him a worse, less versatile character. Larry on the other hands benefits a ton from customs, so I figured it was worth investing the time...which in all honestly, I shouldn't have simply because I'm behind with school work. Sorry I didn't deviate more from what's generally a higher priority in my life, which is my education. I hate school so much. -_- I had to miss out on a big tournament last weekend because it took place the day before I had a major exam and I needed that time to study. But I went to a tournament on Wednesday night and played Smash for over 8 hours last Friday with people, so w/e.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Yeah that's fine. But that's exactly what I'm getting at. I've had them unlocked since October, I've done my experimenting. My findings essentially boil down to meteor ejection being good vs awful opponents + if you can't aim your up b offstage, piercing cannon is a high risk attack for 4%, the side b customs work in niche situations but not neutral gameplay and big mk is extremely high risk medium reward/impatient mk is a useless gimmick.

 

[guedes the brawler]

I'd suggest just getting better and actually learning how to punish and approach those characters, but to each their own.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5EVKUWxXYc




Really? Have you not actually played bjr enough to know his bnb's? This is my point. It really feels like the people suggesting this stuff haven't used bjr extensively in a tournament setting. All of these do 25% or more, and having 10+ combos available to you is substantially better than having one that will work some of the time and do a bit more damage.

the problem is that side b 1 combos do less damage and are harder to pull off AND do not have an added bonus of super armor.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

side b 1 has super armor on the bottom. If you cart out of sh you can eat most projectiles.

Also the combos are not harder to pull off. Every single one of those is stupidly easy to perform. You have to just straight up practice more and get better if you think those are difficult.

 

[guedes the brawler]

side b 1 has super armor on the bottom. If you cart out of sh you can eat most projectiles.

Also the combos are not harder to pull off. Every single one of those is stupidly easy to perform. You have to just straight up practice more and get better if you think those are difficult.

i did not say they were hard. but they are hardER, due to the cart being slower AND having no burial effect.

so, i can eat projectiles with side b 1. on top of being slower, weaker it also requires me to jump in order to eat projectiles; when compared to side b3

 

[Mr Moosebones]

What are your options out of side b 3 other than to hope for a bury and land an up b/dair?

Edit: wait what? Its hard to combo someone into the air because the cart doesn't have a burial effect? I don't think you thought that through. Lol try landing an up air string on someone stuck in the ground.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I have heard it argued, credibly, that Bowser Jr. is one of those characters who counterpicks customs based on match-up a lot and that the car variants are a really major case of that. It's the common rule in custom tournaments that you pick moves after both sides lock in character so side-1 can be the best overall (I can easily believe that) while side-2 and side-3 might still be frequently worth using in match-ups where the very, very different things they do are more important than what default offers. I thought that concept might be useful in this conversation. Movesets don't have to be useful across the board, only useful in the right situations with all 11 choices (10 customs plus default) hopefully covering everything.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I have heard it argued, credibly, that Bowser Jr. is one of those characters who counterpicks customs based on match-up a lot and that the car variants are a really major case of that. It's the common rule in custom tournaments that you pick moves after both sides lock in character so side-1 can be the best overall (I can easily believe that) while side-2 and side-3 might still be frequently worth using in match-ups where the very, very different things they do are more important than what default offers. I thought that concept might be useful in this conversation. Movesets don't have to be useful across the board, only useful in the right situations with all 11 choices (10 customs plus default) hopefully covering everything.

I can see some validity to that in theory but his customs don't actually offer that much variance in practice. There's far too much stock put into theory crafting and its being prioritised over people actually testing stuff out vs real people. Like I said, if people want to use side b 3 then more power to them, that's why there's 10 sets. 3111 and 3113 are arguably the best all-purpose sets though and they definitely deserve a spot on the list over basically any option that has piercing cannon. That move is legitimately horrible and can maybe work as a niche pick vs Ness and DH, but it has no substance.

I just did some more testing with side b 3 today (yes, against real people, attempting to put into practice the theories people have brought up) and it doesn't even have super armour once it starts moving forward. Literally the only thing you have to do to beat side b 3 is to jump and throw out an aerial or projectile. You can't be buried and your attack will connect. The startup on side b 3 is horrendous and only is mitigated by the armour frames. Once it's in motion it's useless.

 

[Rynhardt]

Have people tested 2212 against Rosaluma? I see there's a 2112 set which was mentioned as a Rosaluma counter and I totally agree but I'm curious if the ridiculousness of Koopa Drift would give him any advantage over a campy/projectile spammy Rosaluma where you can spin out to eat most projectiles (whereas Clown Cart Dash spinout can only eat one move). If this hasn't been tested and there are no strong arguments against it I'd love to volunteer and test this against a competent Rosaluma, seeing as Larry is my go-to counterpick against her, she comes up a lot since I'm a Ness main.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Lol what is with peoples obsession with piercing shot? Doesn't make any sense at all vs Rosa since she can still gp it and doing 4% at a time to Luma is a totally garbage tactic. Even the standard neutral b is better vs her.

 

[Blanc]

i got your back nash,

I see zero potential in any of bjr's custom moves other than air cannon.

3 1 1 1 B O Y Z

 

[guedes the brawler]

I can see some validity to that in theory but his customs don't actually offer that much variance in practice. There's far too much stock put into theory crafting and its being prioritised over people actually testing stuff out vs real people. Like I said, if people want to use side b 3 then more power to them, that's why there's 10 sets. 3111 and 3113 are arguably the best all-purpose sets though and they definitely deserve a spot on the list over basically any option that has piercing cannon. That move is legitimately horrible and can maybe work as a niche pick vs Ness and DH, but it has no substance.

I just did some more testing with side b 3 today (yes, against real people, attempting to put into practice the theories people have brought up) and it doesn't even have super armour once it starts moving forward. Literally the only thing you have to do to beat side b 3 is to jump and throw out an aerial or projectile. You can't be buried and your attack will connect. The startup on side b 3 is horrendous and only is mitigated by the armour frames. Once it's in motion it's useless.

jump cancel side b.

 

[Blanc]

jump cancel side b.

my man you quoted a long paragraph and reply with one sentence (that doesn't even solve kart3 problems) as if you know something phenomenal

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Damn, jc'ing side b 3 give it invincibility frames? This game truly is broken kappa.

 

[epicpunnum]

Personally I've found 3221 to be an interesting and fun combo to work with.

I've personally found that Air Canon, when used as an edge guard against certain people will cause people to panic recoveries and either overshoot them or go low - the latter being prime setup for a meteor if close enough. I feel like Air Canon also gives Bowser Jr. better viability when it comes to platformed stages, as it's not a solid projectile with gravity. As Thinkaman stated Air Canon has a hop in it, which has uses if using the move offstage for a bit of extra distance or a just to be a mixup.

As for side specials, I prefer Koopa Drift on my build mostly because its distance helps counteract the slightly lower recovery that Meteor Ejection has vs Abandon Ship. Mostly preference there, but for a character whose up special makes him easy prey to windboxes, I think it's a good idea not to give away any recovery without getting some back. As for Grounding D

As for Big Mechakoopa, I'm not as much of a fan. While it's true that its more offensive, Bowser Jr is a strong zoner, and part of that is his standard Mechakoopa. Played right, Mechakoopa 1 is a very useful tool for keeping opponents unsteady during neutral game and - much like Villagers Lloid Rocket - is a way to force suboptimal movement in your opponent. By getting rid of the self-triggering and knock up, you get rid of a ton of zoning and easy damage rackups from things like having it explode on your enemy while you pummel them.

To be fair it's not the best with flying characters, but for opponents that still obey gravity, its a solid pick IMHO. Other sets to consider might be 3111, 1221, and 1213,

 

[guedes the brawler]

jump cancel greatly fixes it's start-up issue. it's already faster than side-b1 outside of that.

you can beat all karts by the same way so it's not like it's a side-b3 weakness. oh, let's not ignore how, due to being the faster move, it's the hardest to punish.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

It's also the hardest to follow up out of for that same reason.

 

[Rynhardt]

Just played some custom Bowser Jr. with viewers, user cree318 specifically. At http://www.twitch.tv/rynnyryn/b/630593835 at 42:25. I'm not claiming these matches as decisive evidence, especially when I've just started using these sets and would like to keep practicing them, but the advantages of the tested sets are pretty clear.

Versus a Villager using 2122/2322 sets, with the tripping sapling. I tried using one of our presets, 2112, and found it to be total garbage in a set made to counter characters like Villager and Rosalina. I even switched to 3223 and found that I still was being out-controlled with Jr.'s best control side-b. So I ended up trying out a new set, 1312, where I would abuse the super armor to ignore the sapling and ground Villager for free hits (Always pair side-b3 with up-b1 for a 41% true combo as Thinkaman explains). Catching Villager was the hard part, but when you do it, you want to punish hard. You can punish fair spam with impatient mechakoopa and he can't pocket cycle it, pulling it back out forces him to take the explosion. The reason I go neutral-b1 in this matchup is so even if he does pocket impatient, I still have a ranged option if I need it, and you're honestly going to have a hard time gimping a Villager with neutral-b3.

In the end he swapped to 2121, replacing his tripping sapling with the standard again. In this MU I believe it is the Villager's preference but going back to a tree that can kill early might be more valuable than a tripping sapling that Bowser Jr. will just super armor through.

I have yet to try customs versus Rosalina, but I'm going to assume you will want something similar. Rosalina is gimpable so I would go back to neutral-b3, and I will assume that you would want to stick with grounding for 3312, but I will also test the other side-b's against her when I get a chance.

So in summary I'd like to see 2112 trashed for 1312 as a Villager counter, and possibly one more for a Rosalina counter which I'm thinking will probably be 3312. If we can only get one, my vote goes to drop 2112 for 3312 for a general Rosalina/Villager counter.

 

[cree318]

Hey, I'm the Villager player who played Rynhardt. Although I didn't have that much experience (actually no experience) with Jr's custom moves before we fought, I will say that a x312 set seems to counter Villager's most popular custom set (2122/2322). More specifically Grounding Dash counters Counter Tree and Impatient Mechakoopa counter pocket/garden (I didn't test it with pocket plus, which may work better due to its increased range). Also that grounding dash to abandon ship to hammer swing seems to work very well. No comment on Jr's neutral B custom as it seems to be a non issue for Villager. As you can see from the video, I had trouble getting kills using a 2x22 set (having Jr go over the tripping sapling is a big problem for Villy as Counter Tree doesn't have nearly the killing power of his regular Tree, same goes for his Counter Tree axe).

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Why do you need 2 sets specifically to counter one character? Esp a character that BJr already has an easy time against (rosa)? That's total overkill haha.

EDIT: Man people are going to get destroyed if they use grounding dash in legitimate tournaments haha. It's arguably easier to punish since the extra speed means they don't actually have to time their attacks. They can just throw stuff out on reaction and get a hit for their troubles. At least the side b 1 give YOU, the bjr player time to react and hop out/tomahawk/whatever.

Trying not to be totally negative about his stuff but I really, REALLY don't understand why people are willing to drop arguably the best early game combos in the game for a silly gimmick that occasionally gives you a follow up. Remember, if they're in the air it doesn't even ground them. All they have to do to counter it is jump and throw out any fast attack.

 

[Rynhardt]

Why do you need 2 sets specifically to counter one character? Esp a character that BJr already has an easy time against (rosa)? That's total overkill haha.

EDIT: Man people are going to get destroyed if they use grounding dash in legitimate tournaments haha. It's arguably easier to punish since the extra speed means they don't actually have to time their attacks. They can just throw stuff out on reaction and get a hit for their troubles. At least the side b 1 give YOU, the bjr player time to react and hop out/tomahawk/whatever.

Trying not to be totally negative about his stuff but I really, REALLY don't understand why people are willing to drop arguably the best early game combos in the game for a silly gimmick that occasionally gives you a follow up. Remember, if they're in the air it doesn't even ground them. All they have to do to counter it is jump and throw out any fast attack.

You are completely and conveniently ignoring the trip sapling.

 

[W.A.C.]

Went to a tournament yesterday that allowed custom moves. Larry's custom moves are very fun, but I generally did better without them. I'm not sure if that's an indication his default setup worked better than my setups, or if I just need more time to get better with certain setups. Regardless, his custom moves are very fun and bring a lot of variety to his play style.

 

[meleebrawler]

Why do you need 2 sets specifically to counter one character? Esp a character that BJr already has an easy time against (rosa)? That's total overkill haha.

EDIT: Man people are going to get destroyed if they use grounding dash in legitimate tournaments haha. It's arguably easier to punish since the extra speed means they don't actually have to time their attacks. They can just throw stuff out on reaction and get a hit for their troubles. At least the side b 1 give YOU, the bjr player time to react and hop out/tomahawk/whatever.

Trying not to be totally negative about his stuff but I really, REALLY don't understand why people are willing to drop arguably the best early game combos in the game for a silly gimmick that occasionally gives you a follow up. Remember, if they're in the air it doesn't even ground them. All they have to do to counter it is jump and throw out any fast attack.

People aren't raving about grounding dash for it's followups, it's the frame 1 armour that lets him use
it in a Rock Smash manner, improving his defence and letting him take more advantage of his weight with rage
and proper application.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

People aren't raving about grounding dash for it's followups, it's the frame 1 armour that lets him use
it in a Rock Smash manner, improving his defence and letting him take more advantage of his weight with rage
and proper application.

You know the armor stops working once it's moving forward, right? People seem to be missing this extremely obvious point.

Yeah sure, frame one armor on startup allows you to get out of hairy situations and bait hard, but bjr has a tremendously difficult time landing killing moves and grounding dash takes away arguably his easiest one + stops him from being able to combo.

You are completely and conveniently ignoring the trip sapling.

What are the properties of tripping sapling that allow side b 3 to go over it and not side b 1? Unless it has a special tripping mechanic that doesn't apply to other tripping items, you should be able to drive over it regardless.

 

[krazyzyko]

2223

Piercing Cannon- Quick projectile easier to land.
Koopa drift- Ridiculous recovery, spinout safe on shield.
Meteor Ejection- Trades vertical distance for better gimping potential and KO power.
Big MK- Easier to pick up which makes this item more versatile.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

2223

Piercing Cannon- Quick projectile easier to land.
Koopa drift- Ridiculous recovery, spinout safe on shield.
Meteor Ejection- Trades vertical distance for better gimping potential and KO power.
Big MK- Easier to pick up which makes this item more versatile.

Have you actually tried this set?

 

[Chiroz]

You know the armor stops working once it's moving forward, right? People seem to be missing this extremely obvious point.

Yeah sure, frame one armor on startup allows you to get out of hairy situations and bait hard, but bjr has a tremendously difficult time landing killing moves and grounding dash takes away arguably his easiest one + stops him from being able to combo.


What are the properties of tripping sapling that allow side b 3 to go over it and not side b 1? Unless it has a special tripping mechanic that doesn't apply to other tripping items, you should be able to drive over it regardless.

You can combo Up-B from Side 3 too. You can also combo Down-Air from it. All you lose is the Up-Air strings from what I can see, but honestly I am extremely new to Jr's playstyle I might be missing some really essential combos that do more than 35-45% damage like Side-B 3 -> Up-B does.

Side-3 is almost definitely more easier to punish for your opponent and it's also harder to actually hit it with because of the start up, but saying you lose all combo ability isn't exactly a true thing.

I came in here for some knowledge on Jr's customs as I have no idea about anything, but you guys seem to just be bashing each other choices instead of actually taking the time to analyze each choice individually.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

2223

Piercing Cannon- Quick projectile easier to land.
Koopa drift- Ridiculous recovery, spinout safe on shield.
Meteor Ejection- Trades vertical distance for better gimping potential and KO power.
Big MK- Easier to pick up which makes this item more versatile.

Piercing easier to land?
Puh-lease.
It's way too small, so no way it's easier to land than the wall Clown Cannon is.

Big MK isn't more versatile. If you're lucky you can grab it before the opponent and... throw it.
Yes.
Normal MK is a fantastic trap.

Meteor Ejection doesn't have more KO POWER, but is better IMO.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

You can combo Up-B from Side 3 too. You can also combo Down-Air from it. All you lose is the Up-Air strings from what I can see, but honestly I am extremely new to Jr's playstyle I might be missing some really essential combos that do more than 35-45% damage like Side-B 3 -> Up-B does.

Side-3 is almost definitely more easier to punish for your opponent and it's also harder to actually hit it with because of the start up, but saying you lose all combo ability isn't exactly a true thing.

I came in here for some knowledge on Jr's customs as I have no idea about anything, but you guys seem to just be bashing each other choices instead of actually taking the time to analyze each choice individually.

So you get one or two combos that are extremely hard to land against a competent opponent (ie, if they're in the air you don't get follow ups even if you connect) with side b 3 and you get option select with side b 1. I know what I'm picking haha.

And it seems like bashing because 90% of the posts in here are people who have messed around in training mode and its frustrating that they're dictating the custom list for evo (a competition they won't even be entering). Theory crafting is fine and has its place, and everyone is allowed to play the way they want, but jeez, if you don't actually play the character enough to be able to weigh the pros and cons maybe you shouldn't be trying to change a list that isn't even going to affect you.

 

[Blanc]

jesus christ people need to understand that piercing cannon is ****ing trash

 

[Mr Moosebones]

If you're landing piercing cannon you could probably be doing something better instead.