Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Bowser Jr.

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

To try and make up for how dead this thread is, I went and asked the same question on reddit. I was given a few different replies.

1211 1221 1312 > With 11 upvotes

2113 > With 3 upvotes

1213 > With 4 upvotes

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Thanks, that's very helpful! 2113 is my personal favorite Bowser Jr. build (but I'm awful at this character), and I get the purpose of a lot of the rest of these. It would still be nice to have some kind of discussion here if any of the Koopaling fans here have any opinions on these moves?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

1113

 

[guedes the brawler]

i really like the default but i can see smart players making me want to change cannonball to Piercing Cannon (2).

it seems like Koopa Drift (side 2) also has acrpaload of potential i think it's best partners are Meteor Ejection (?) and Air Cannon (3) for massive edgeguards.

it seems all mechakoopas are viable, but the big thing seems to be that Piercing Cannon makes Impatient Mechakoopa (2) redundant)

i really don't see any point to the 3rd versions of Side B and Up-b.

i've heard Big Mechakoopa (3) has it's uses but i need to do research. and i need friends for that...

 

[popsofctown]

Big megakoopa has the easiest timing for the double-explosion glitch and does lots of damage that way (even to block, perhaps)

 

[guedes the brawler]

Big megakoopa has the easiest timing for the double-explosion glitch and does lots of damage that way (even to block, perhaps)

what glitch...??? where can i find out more about that???

 

[popsofctown]

what glitch...??? where can i find out more about that???

I'm not a bowser jr. person or anything so I dunno. If an on-contact explosive that also has a timer hits a foe at the same time as the timer would have run out anyway, the explosive produces hitboxes for both the timed explosion and the contact explosion essentially at the same time. I think it shows up on other moves too. I can't confirm that it hasn't been patched out.

 

[AJ34]

Giant MechaKoopa is the only customs I see being of use here.

 

[Oracle]

Giant mechakoopa, spin out car (i believe special 2), and spiking up b all have uses, but so do the defaults. Most of the other customs are pretty useless, aside for some weird uses with the wind cannon.

 

[T-block]

I haven't played around as much with customs as I would have liked, but I think it might be worth it to dedicate one slot to an anti Little Mac set, given the prevalence of the character. Probably something like 3213.

I'm not sure how much I trust a reddit thread... 1312 sounds pretty bad to me lol

 

[guedes the brawler]

I haven't played around as much with customs as I would have liked, but I think it might be worth it to dedicate one slot to an anti Little Mac set, given the prevalence of the character. Probably something like 3213.

I'm not sure how much I trust a reddit thread... 1312 sounds pretty bad to me lol

i think meteor Ejection would work better vs mac than Abandon ship.

 

[Funkermonster]

Please tell me the customs or NeutralB are good, cause I really, really don't like the normal cannonballs outside of edgeguarding.. The windbox one looks so cool, correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[guedes the brawler]

Please tell me the customs or NeutralB are good, cause I really, really don't like the normal cannonballs outside of edgeguarding.. The windbox one looks so cool, correct me if I'm wrong...

you could try using it to punish landings... well, the 2nd version is the "weak and fast' variation, should be in general much more usable. i don' know much bout the wind one, seems liike a good Mac CP move but...

 

[Conn1496]

2121 are probably the only viable customs for me. Even then, peircing cannon is mostly just for matches with multiple opponents. Love Meteor Ejection though - can play without it, but it's a nice touch - even though you trade some recoverability, you get a nasty meteor hit to replace it, and an easier follow-up. This might just be because I find that using up-B pretty aggressively generally works for me though.

My preference for standard cannon over piercing cannon is just because I prefer the slower, harder hitting projectile. It serves as a damn nice stage hazard in conjunction with Mechakoopa and can become pretty unavoidable if used right. You can also use it easier as a safer ranged alternative to your usual edge-game. As for wind cannon, it's just something I can't use, and I usually love windbox moves.

The other specials just kinda throw off his game for me too. I tried Koopa Drift, but it just removes a high-damage KO mix-up, and grounding dash is just too different - and generally useless in my experience.
As for the Mechakoopas, the normal Mechakoopa is just much more reliable, faster, and easier to follow up. The other two - to me - are borderline unusable. Also, the normal Mechakoopa has a neat initial upwards flip that ensures the explosion hits when it collides with an opponent, and generally gives you an opening to rush in there.
-and just don't get me started on Koopa Meteor. Just don't.

That's my two cents on it anyway - dunno if people agree with that or whatever but I imagine it's really just dependant on play-style, as with most customs.

 

[Ultima 3]

Neutral B
Clown Cannon: Shoots straight. Can be charged. At max charge, auto shoots. Does 7-18%. Longer it's charged, stronger it gets and further it goes. Nulifies projectiles. Nulifying projectiles reduces its power and distance. KO move. Near the edge at 110%, in the centre at 130%.
Piercing Cannon: Shoots straight. Flies fast. Can be charged. At max charge, auto shoots. Does 4-10%. Longer it's charged, stronger it gets and further it goes. Nulifies projectiles. Nulifying projectiles reduces its power and distance. Travels past shield. KO move. Near the edge at 220%, in the centre at 260%.
Air Cannon: Shoots straight. Can be charged. At max charge, auto shoots. Shoots wind box. Wind box has pushback effect. Longer it's charged, greater the pushback effect and further it goes.

Side B
Clown Car Dash: Dashes forward. Jumping cancels move. Dashing at a ledge auto jumps, but still continues the move. Dashes past opponents. Does 5-7%. Pressing the opposite direction causes you to spin. Spin nulifies small projectiles. Does 8-12%. Using in the air does no damage when falling. When it lands it bounces. Does 4%. KO move. Spin - near the edge at 130%, in the centre at 160%. Hit - 230%.
Koopa Drift: Dashes forward. Jumping cancels move. Doesn't jump very high. Dashing at a ledge auto jumps and spins. Dashes past opponents. Does 2%. Pressing the opposite direction causes you to spin. Spin nulifies small projectiles. Hits a maximum of 8 times. 1st-7th hit does 1%. Final hit does 2%. Maximum 9%. Using in the air does no damage when falling. Spinning immediately when used in the air makes you rise upwards. Limitless. When it lands it bounces. Does 2%.
Grounding Dash: Dashes forward. Very fast. Set distance. Jumping cancels move. Dashing at a ledge auto spins. Dashes past opponents. Does 8%. Has super armour while dashing. Only damages grounded opponents. Buries opponents it hits. Grounded spin has small pushback effect. Using in the air does no damage. Boosts in the air before falling. Spinning in the air makes you fall immediately.

Up B
Abandon Ship: Hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st hit does 5%. Final hit does 13%. Maximum 18%. High knockback. Jumps out of Clown Car very high. Ship falls down then explodes. Can use mallet while free falling. Mallet can only attack to the sides. Does 10-15%. High knockback. KO move. Ship - Near the edge at 130%, in the centre at 150%. Mallet - near the edge at 100%, in the centre at 130%.
Meteor Ejection: Hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st hit does 3-8%. Final hit does 10%. Maximum 18%. High knockback. Jumps out of Clown Car. Ship drops fast, then explodes. Will meteor/spike opponents that are touching when you jump out, when used in the air. Super armour when jumping out of the ship. Can use mallet while free falling. Mallet can only attack to the sides. Does 10-15%. High knockback. KO move. Ship - spike off the stage. Mallet - near the edge at 100%, in the centre at 130%.
Koopa Meteor: Hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st hit does 10%. Final hit does 17%. Maximum 27%. High knockback. Boosts very high into the air. Clown Car explodes and you shoot downwards. Damage anything in your way. Can use mallet while free falling. Attacking immediately after exploding makes you fall normally. Continue attacking to fall at regular speed. When you stop attacking, you drop fast again. KO move. Drop - 140%. Ship + Drop - 80%. Ship - 160%. Mallet - near the edge at 100%, in the centre at 120%.

Down B
Mechakoopa: Hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st hit does 2%. Final hit does 7%. Maximum 9%. Travels along the ground for 5 seconds before exploding. Explodes on contact with an opponent. When used in the air, bounces before walking. Can be picked up/caught and thrown. KO move. Near the edge at 250%, in the centre Sudden Death KO move.
Impatient Mechakoopa: Hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st hit does 1%. Final hit does 4%. Maximum 5%. Shoots out in an arc. Explodes 1 second after touching the ground. When used in the air, bounces before touching the ground. Explodes on contact with an opponent. Can be picked up/caught and thrown.
Big Mechakoopa: Hits a maximum of 2 times. 1st hit does 1%. Final hit does 15%. Maximum 16%. Travels along the ground 3 seconds before exploding. Moves very slowly. Will walk past opponents and do no damage. Gets slowed walking through opponents and objects. When used in the air, bounces before walking. Can be picked up/caught and thrown. KO move. Near the edge at 120%, in the centre at 160%.

Jr. Is interesting.
I like the regular Clown Cannon. Piercing would be good in team or free-for-all, but kind of useless 1-on-1 unless it's against charcters that can make and obstacle of sorts (like say Pac Man's Hydrant). Air Cannon is helpful for recovery and good for edge guarding.
Want God like recovery, Koopa Drift holy smokes. Literally stay in the air forever if you've got good timing. Grounding Dash covers it's short dustance very fast, grounding opponents is a bonus. But default Clown Kart Dash is also fine.
His Up B's are where things get interesting. Abandon Ship has an escape method and edge guarding tool is great. Try to predict where your opponent is going and basically drop a land mine. Meteor Ejection is if you're confident in spiking. It also gets super armour. Koopa Meteor is another offensive move. That goes high but descends fast. You can slow the descent by constantly attacking, allowing you some control when descending.
The Mechakoopa I don't use is Impatient. Regular default for control over the field and Big for easy pickup.

My set is normally 1213, 1211 or 1221
For max recovery you'd probably go 3231

 

[Thinkaman]

Real Talk:

Clown Cannon is a completely useless move in 1v1. It's like Din's Fire, but worse. You should never use it.

Piercing Cannon is "better" but still completely useless. You should never use it.

Air Cannon is a pretty bad move, but actually has some legitimate if situational use. You can use it off-stage, because it "bounces" Bowser Jr. up on use, and you can grab ledges from either side during this bounce. This is actually a pretty great edgeguard, basically a better FLUDD.

It is optimal to run Air Cannon on every set. There is no reason to ever use the other two moves in competitive play.

Clown Car Dash is robust offensive pressure and punish. On-hit, you can link into any aerial, which starts Bowser Jr.'s trademark disgusting aerial chains. You can also go for an up-b, which is also extremely high reward.

Koopa Drift sacrifices all of this for better spinout damage and incredible recovery. This is an overrated trade once you really see what Clown Car Dash is capable of, but it's definitely worth making in several matchups. Optimal play usually involves spinning out ASAP.

Grounding Dash is easy to dismiss, but is actually probably the best. It has frame 1 armor, which can break out of any non-true combo. I cannot stress how insanely valuable this is! On hit it buries grounded opponents, which you should always combo Abandon Ship into for 41% total damage--Abandon Ship is a multi-hit combo, so it does not suffer the bury knockback penalty. It does nothing to aerial opponents, but can be used as a recovery; you should always jump at the last second though, to avoid the poor spinout.

All 3 Koopa Karts are fantastic moves but fulfill completely different purposes. There need to be sets with all of them. Grounding Dash is the most critical though.

Abandon Ship is seemingly a true combo at high %s, does 28% damage, and has insane kill power. It is surprisingly safe, due to the interfering projectile, high jump, and terrifying disjoint on the hammer. It's even plausible to use OoS! An incredible move.

Meteor Ejection is an interesting trade. The damage and hammer kill power is the same. The combo is easier to land at high %s, the move enjoys some late Super Armor on startup, and the clown car projectile is a mediocre spike. The cost you pay for these bonuses are significantly less height (poor recovery), and the inability to combo a buried opponent. (From Grounding Dash)

Koopa Meteor is just bad. It's nothing compared to the other two options. Just a goofy, hilarious gimmick that no one should actually use competitively.

Abandon Ship and Meteor Ejection are both really good options that should be available. However, Meteor Ejection is pointless with Grounding Dash.

Mechakoopa is a pretty good projectile, but the ability to grab it hinders its stage control value. I really like it, but am unconvinced it is a truly good move at top-level play.

Impaitient Mechakoopa is too laggy (both on startup and cooldown) to offer much merit. It's not a terrible Clown Canon tier move, but it's definitely the weakest of the three options.

Giant Mechakoopa is overrated but probably still the best. It's just scary to have a 15% throwable on tap, period. Note that using this with Grounding Dash and Abandon Ship gives Bowser Jr. a 56% total damage shield break punish!

Bowser Jr. should probably use Giant Mechakoopa in every set. However, I sympathize with those who want to try and exploit the default.

I strongly suggest:

3111
3113
3123
3213
3223
3313

Ironically, I think the sets are in ascending order of value. (best last)

 

[Funkermonster]

Real Talk:

Clown Cannon is a completely useless move in 1v1. It's like Din's Fire, but worse. You should never use it.

Piercing Cannon is "better" but still completely useless. You should never use it.

Air Cannon is a pretty bad move, but actually has some legitimate if situational use. You can use it off-stage, because it "bounces" Bowser Jr. up on use, and you can grab ledges from either side during this bounce. This is actually a pretty great edgeguard, basically a better FLUDD.

It is optimal to run Air Cannon on every set. There is no reason to ever use the other two moves in competitive play.

Clown Car Dash is robust offensive pressure and punish. On-hit, you can link into any aerial, which starts Bowser Jr.'s trademark disgusting aerial chains. You can also go for an up-b, which is also extremely high reward.

Koopa Drift sacrifices all of this for better spinout damage and incredible recovery. This is an overrated trade once you really see what Clown Car Dash is capable of, but it's definitely worth making in several matchups. Optimal play usually involves spinning out ASAP.

Grounding Dash is easy to dismiss, but is actually probably the best. It has frame 1 armor, which can break out of any non-true combo. I cannot stress how insanely valuable this is! On hit it buries grounded opponents, which you should always combo Abandon Ship into for 41% total damage--Abandon Ship is a multi-hit combo, so it does not suffer the bury knockback penalty. It does nothing to aerial opponents, but can be used as a recovery; you should always jump at the last second though, to avoid the poor spinout.

All 3 Koopa Karts are fantastic moves but fulfill completely different purposes. There need to be sets with all of them. Grounding Dash is the most critical though.

Abandon Ship is seemingly a true combo at high %s, does 28% damage, and has insane kill power. It is surprisingly safe, due to the interfering projectile, high jump, and terrifying disjoint on the hammer. It's even plausible to use OoS! An incredible move.

Meteor Ejection is an interesting trade. The damage and hammer kill power is the same. The combo is easier to land at high %s, the move enjoys some late Super Armor on startup, and the clown car projectile is a mediocre spike. The cost you pay for these bonuses are significantly less height (poor recovery), and the inability to combo a buried opponent. (From Grounding Dash)

Koopa Meteor is just bad. It's nothing compared to the other two options. Just a goofy, hilarious gimmick that no one should actually use competitively.

Abandon Ship and Meteor Ejection are both really good options that should be available. However, Meteor Ejection is pointless with Grounding Dash.

Mechakoopa is a pretty good projectile, but the ability to grab it hinders its stage control value. I really like it, but am unconvinced it is a truly good move at top-level play.

Impaitient Mechakoopa is too laggy (both on startup and cooldown) to offer much merit. It's not a terrible Clown Canon tier move, but it's definitely the weakest of the three options.

Giant Mechakoopa is overrated but probably still the best. It's just scary to have a 15% throwable on tap, period. Note that using this with Grounding Dash and Abandon Ship gives Bowser Jr. a 56% total damage shield break punish!

Bowser Jr. should probably use Giant Mechakoopa in every set. However, I sympathize with those who want to try and exploit the default.

I strongly suggest:

3111
3113
3123
3213
3223
3313

Ironically, I think the sets are in ascending order of value. (best last)

Best post I've read all day, thanks. Will try these sets

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Giant MechaKoopa can act as a counter where the opponent receives 15% damage and good knockback when attacking the Koopa.

You need to shield yourself for the explosion though.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Real Talk:

Clown Cannon is a completely useless move in 1v1. It's like Din's Fire, but worse. You should never use it.

Piercing Cannon is "better" but still completely useless. You should never use it.

Air Cannon is a pretty bad move, but actually has some legitimate if situational use. You can use it off-stage, because it "bounces" Bowser Jr. up on use, and you can grab ledges from either side during this bounce. This is actually a pretty great edgeguard, basically a better FLUDD.

It is optimal to run Air Cannon on every set. There is no reason to ever use the other two moves in competitive play.

Clown Car Dash is robust offensive pressure and punish. On-hit, you can link into any aerial, which starts Bowser Jr.'s trademark disgusting aerial chains. You can also go for an up-b, which is also extremely high reward.

Koopa Drift sacrifices all of this for better spinout damage and incredible recovery. This is an overrated trade once you really see what Clown Car Dash is capable of, but it's definitely worth making in several matchups. Optimal play usually involves spinning out ASAP.

Grounding Dash is easy to dismiss, but is actually probably the best. It has frame 1 armor, which can break out of any non-true combo. I cannot stress how insanely valuable this is! On hit it buries grounded opponents, which you should always combo Abandon Ship into for 41% total damage--Abandon Ship is a multi-hit combo, so it does not suffer the bury knockback penalty. It does nothing to aerial opponents, but can be used as a recovery; you should always jump at the last second though, to avoid the poor spinout.

All 3 Koopa Karts are fantastic moves but fulfill completely different purposes. There need to be sets with all of them. Grounding Dash is the most critical though.

Abandon Ship is seemingly a true combo at high %s, does 28% damage, and has insane kill power. It is surprisingly safe, due to the interfering projectile, high jump, and terrifying disjoint on the hammer. It's even plausible to use OoS! An incredible move.

Meteor Ejection is an interesting trade. The damage and hammer kill power is the same. The combo is easier to land at high %s, the move enjoys some late Super Armor on startup, and the clown car projectile is a mediocre spike. The cost you pay for these bonuses are significantly less height (poor recovery), and the inability to combo a buried opponent. (From Grounding Dash)

Koopa Meteor is just bad. It's nothing compared to the other two options. Just a goofy, hilarious gimmick that no one should actually use competitively.

Abandon Ship and Meteor Ejection are both really good options that should be available. However, Meteor Ejection is pointless with Grounding Dash.

Mechakoopa is a pretty good projectile, but the ability to grab it hinders its stage control value. I really like it, but am unconvinced it is a truly good move at top-level play.

Impaitient Mechakoopa is too laggy (both on startup and cooldown) to offer much merit. It's not a terrible Clown Canon tier move, but it's definitely the weakest of the three options.

Giant Mechakoopa is overrated but probably still the best. It's just scary to have a 15% throwable on tap, period. Note that using this with Grounding Dash and Abandon Ship gives Bowser Jr. a 56% total damage shield break punish!

Bowser Jr. should probably use Giant Mechakoopa in every set. However, I sympathize with those who want to try and exploit the default.

I strongly suggest:

3111
3113
3123
3213
3223
3313

Ironically, I think the sets are in ascending order of value. (best last)

just like with the straight Lunge i've had some success with the clown cannon when i use it to punish landings, and it's a nice Bouncing Fish/Flip Jump/Monkey Flip bait which can lead you to a punish if they were high enough.

using the cannonball's fall in addition to the mechakoopa is a good trap for ledges if you were far enough to do it. people will try not to come up thanks to the mechakoopa and the cannonball nails then.

 

[Thinkaman]

just like with the straight Lunge i've had some success with the clown cannon when i use it to punish landings, and it's a nice Bouncing Fish/Flip Jump/Monkey Flip bait which can lead you to a punish if they were high enough.

using the cannonball's fall in addition to the mechakoopa is a good trap for ledges if you were far enough to do it. people will try not to come up thanks to the mechakoopa and the cannonball nails then.

Interesting, I'll look into this as an option!

 

[guedes the brawler]

i really like the default but i can see smart players making me want to change cannonball to Piercing Cannon (2).

it seems like Koopa Drift (side 2) also has acrpaload of potential i think it's best partners are Meteor Ejection (?) and Air Cannon (3) for massive edgeguards.

it seems all mechakoopas are viable, but the big thing seems to be that Piercing Cannon makes Impatient Mechakoopa (2) redundant)

i really don't see any point to the 3rd versions of Side B and Up-b.

i've heard Big Mechakoopa (3) has it's uses but i need to do research. and i need friends for that...

'im replying to myself here, yes...

impatient mechakoopa + Piercing cannon is what we could be packing vs rosalina. impatient mechakoopa is something she will regret using gravitational pull on, piercing cannon can hit luma even if she shields (and if she's unfamiliar with the move, she will just use the luma as a meatshield and that won't work_)

 

[Thinkaman]

Impatient Mechakoopa against Rosalina is one of the more clever thing I've read on smashboards. I just checked it out, and it's legit.

Edit: Also, Villager? He can't pocket them; they explode as he takes them out.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Impatient Mechakoopa against Rosalina is one of the more clever thing I've read on smashboards. I just checked it out, and it's legit.

Edit: Also, Villager? He can't pocket them; they explode as he takes them out.

i think they were thinking exactly about villager and rosalina when they gave them this move. GP/Pocket aren't even the whole issue, since between luma and villager's d-tilt they almost always don't need to fear a MK (though it can still be used to hit villager in midair, very niche and not at all that great);

the only other application i can think of for IMK is to harass slower campers, like Tlink or Samus. they still probably would win in the camping game tho.

this reminds me, if piercing cannon goes through people, could it go through projectiles too...? must test this ASAP

also, have you played with Clown Cannon a bit more, Thinkaman?

 

[W.A.C.]

Clown Cannon is a completely useless move in 1v1. It's like Din's Fire, but worse. You should never use it.

I use this move all the time with , especially when I use a mechakoopa for stage control to limit my opponent's options. I love that move. I just wish it was faster.

 

[Blade Knight]

Koopa Meteor can actually be niche useful in certain macthups in my opinion. Against characters with counters it can be especially good at pressuring an opponent who's in the air. If they counter you as you pass by you get away for free and can punish with either the hammer swing or if you're near enough to the ground with an aerial of choice. I'd never use it without Koopa Drift though because it neuters your recovery.
3233 is pretty good in my opinion, but is completely matchup dependent not just against character but opponent's playstyle especially as a counterpick to Lucarios and Ikes with paralyzing counter or players who like to throw out reversals in mid air (DK's up air, bowser fair, etc.)

Additionally, holding a big mechakoopa while spinning out with Koopa Drift allows you to spin into an opponent, have the explosion occur mid spin and hit them as a true combo, with you being unharmed. It's a little hard to time but it's legit for landing KOs against laggy options or opponents who like projectiles a little too much.

 

[CocoaCannon]

3-2-1-3 is my ideal set, Air Cannon is better than the other 2 options since it's more situational and i never really found use for the normal cannon or piercing cannon, Abandon Ship is good recovery and a good kill option, plus I love the stage spikes you can do with it if you hit your opponent with the clown car correctly off stage, and I use a combination of the Koopa Drift and the Big Mechakoopa by grabbing the Mechkoopa and then trapping enemy in the drift spinout while letting the Mechkoopa explode to blast them back.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Okay, here's what I'm thinking...

Our current sets for Bowser Jr. are:

2211
2123
2121
2113
2223
2213

These sets IMO leave a lot to be desired. Let's just go to the drawing board here and look for synergies.

On default neutral, I see arguments for all three mediocre moves. Clown Cannon traps some landings and can be used in some slower projectile traps with default Mechakoopas. Piercing Cannon is the "best" projectile, rare situational harassment use. Air Cannon is the best move overall on neutral special for filling a few odd niche cases, especially against weaker recoveries.

All three side specials are great. Default is the best approach option, Drift is the best recovery, and Grounding is best as a counterattack due to the armor.

On up, we can immediately discard up-3; it has no practical use. Between up-1 and up-2, up-1 is mostly better, but up-2 has some interesting counter-attack properties. Up-2 should never, ever be used with side-3 and probably synergizes best with side-1.

On down, Giant is overall the best; it's a very imposing explosive that can be used a lot like Snake grenades. Default Mechakooopa has some interesting stage control application even if it is greatly hindered by being grabbable. Impatient is mostly garbage but is specifically useful against Rosalina and Villager.

Here are the rules I've come up with out of this...

Neutral 1 and down 1, when used, should always be paired.
Up-2 and side-3 are never together.
Precisely one set should use down-2, whatever is specifically best for the Rosalina and Villager match-ups. I'm thinking 2112 but could see arguments for 2122 or 2312.

Here's a super rough draft of 10 Bowser Jr. sets in no particular order of quality. IMO Bowser Jr. has some of the most diversely useful customs of any character, and they're absolutely critical to his tournament viability so I really want to be sure to get him right. Does anyone have any thoughts about how these could be optimized?

3313
3213
3113
1311
1211
2112
3123
3223
1221
1121

I used probably too little Piercing Cannon here; Bowser Jr. is a very rare case in which 10 movesets feels restrictive...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I find Piercing Cannon to be pretty bad.

It has the same start-up, so it is just as predictable, but it is a faster and a way smaller projectile.
These are both worse aspects imo, since it means it's easier to dodge, so it's risk becomes bigger and on top of that it's weaker, so the reward is smaller.

The only thing that makes Clown Cannon good is the space it controls for a long time and Piercing removes both.
Cannon is not a projectile. It's a wall and should be used as such.

I personally think the amount of Pierce is good.

Post is full of opinions. Take with a grain of salt.

 

[Reaperfan]

I can't say I have too much personal experience, but with what I can go off of these are my thoughts:

When given the choice between Neutral 1 and 2, I almost always prefer 1. The added speed on Piercing makes it better as a "standard" projectile in the neutral game, but the startup of the cannon moves generally means they're only useful for traps and edgeguarding anyway, both of which I find are easier to pull off and more effectively done with the slower speed and greater power of the default Clown Cannon. And while I'll admit I haven't experimented with Neutral-3 much, that's because I really don't see any merit in it. Any edgeguarding situation I could use it in I'd rather be using a charged Neutral 1 or throwing a mecha-koopa. That said, I do think Piercing has some situational use against Rosalina since it won't get blocked by Luma, but combined with my next thought, I'm not sure how great of a deal that really is in my train of thought.

Also in the Rosalina matchup, I find side-2 quite useful for it's ability to separate Luma from Rosalina and set up Luma kills as a result. Since the skid doesn't carry Luma with it, with proper spacing and setup, connecting a skid can carry Rosalina away and allow a quick setup to knock Luma over a ledge.

I'll agree with the fact that 10 really doesn't feel like enough. But to that end, I'll simply post my personal top 10 options and let you compare how those line up:

1211
1221
1311
1213
1223
1313
2211
2311
2213
2313

Hmm...guess I have more piercing than I thought. I guess weigh that versus what others argue for spots that use Neutral-3.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Why hit Rosalina with Piercing Cannon when Clown Cannon outright kills Luma.
(Both get GP'd though)

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Honestly, all of bowser jr's customs are bad except for wind cannon. If you've actually played more than 5k games with him you'd know that.

He needs all of his other moves to be 1's to actually control space and combo. If you pick any other side b or up b, your combo game stops existing straight up. Legitimately feels like a lot of these opinions are from people who have kinda screwed around with the character but haven't actually put substantial effort into learning his setups and combos.

Big MKs are bad too because the lack of hitbox combined with massive, MASSIVE lag on the deployment means you're an easy target 99% of the time. It could possibly have some nice use but having the mk walk around as an active hitbox is extremely important. Possible niche use but not good most of the time.

3111 and 3113 are the only real sets that need to be on the list. If you choose his other side + up b's you're prioritizing gimmicks over fundamentals.

 

[guedes the brawler]

i do think groudning dash would be better suited for the Rosy fights because the super armor will eat through non-defualt side-b and everyhtign the Luma can do. since she is a big target and has predictable recovery moves i do think Meteor Ejection could be used together with Grounding drift but i still have to play more with Koopa Drift.

while clown cannon packs a punch it's easily dodgeable once it's out. outside of very specific mindgames that account for the opponent messing up their spacing i don't think it's worth to use it even if piercing cannon still has the same start-up lag it has a tighter window of time to dodge and more chances to actually score the hit.

i really disagree with big mechakoopa for the reaosns the above poster posted but the side-bs? yeah... nope.

 

[W.A.C.]

So I finally bothered to unlock all of 's custom moves. I love his side special 2. The fact the spin state lasts far longer than the standard side special gives him more invincibility to certain attacks like small projectiles (poor Mega Man) and it's easier to do ground based combos after the spin state largely because the move can give him so much momentum after a mid jump. This custom move also send opponents more horizontally because they get sucked into his side special instead of just being knocked off the stage. Sure, you lose a kill move, but the setups you can get afterwords more than makes up for it, especially if you have up special 2 paired with side special 2. Up special 2 may reduce his vertical recovery, but the fact it doesn't go as high makes it harder for opponents to gimp him and the less height makes it easier for me to do aeriel followups without being at risk of being so high that I could get up air'd easily. No to mention the move can spike opponents downward without having to physically touch them, which has given me a ton of kills tonight in training mode with level 9 CPU's.

When it comes to the neutral specials, none of them are good but I definitely don't consider neutral special 1 and 3 bad. Neutral special 2 functions the most like a tradition projectile, but the startup lag makes this type of move kind of lousy. If you use it without any charging, it does so little damage that I don't find it very useful. Not to mention its less knockback compared to neutral special 1 and 3 makes your end lag for the move way more punishable. Neutral special 3 can work very well in certain circumstances (like blowing an opponent into one of your mechakoopas or gimping a recovery), but it's very situational. I personally like neutral special 1 the best. When paired with down special 1, both moves together can work fairly well at times to limit your opponents options. Granted, the startup lag is longer than it should be (like with the other neutral specials), but I find it the most useful of the neutral specials.

For his down specials, I find down special 1 the most useful and one of Larry's best moves. Not having it significantly reduces Larry's stage control potential, which goes against my personal play style in how I want to play as him most of the time. Not to mention down special 3 is so easy to pick up and releasing it has so much start-up lag that it makes it difficult to recommend on a small stage like Battlefield against a fast character like Sonic, Shiek, or Fox unless they've been knocked off the stage. The developers really shouldn't have made that move go through opponents. -_- I can't say anything about down special 2 without regurgitating what others have it. It's basically a move that only makes sense against certain matchups.

Overall, I'd say my favorite move set is 1221. My second favorite move set is probably 1211, but not having side special 2 and up special 2 paired means you have less moves compared to the default control scheme if you choose 1211, so that's worth keeping in mind. Once I have more time, I need to experiment more with neutral special 3 and down special 3 to get a good idea of their overall potential. Regardless, definitely have 1221 as part of the finalized list. Judging by some responses in this thread, that is definitely one of the more popular custom move sets for Bowser Jr.

1211 1221 1312 > With 11 upvotes

i really like the default but i can see smart players making me want to change cannonball to Piercing Cannon (2).

it seems like Koopa Drift (side 2) also has acrpaload of potential i think it's best partners are Meteor Ejection (?) and Air Cannon (3) for massive edgeguards.

it seems all mechakoopas are viable, but the big thing seems to be that Piercing Cannon makes Impatient Mechakoopa (2) redundant)

My set is normally 1213, 1211 or 1221

1221

 

[guedes the brawler]

i do think side-b 3 is the better one of his side-bs. you only need to control when to jump off the move.... it has super armor, can bury people and is by far the fastest version of the move especially jump-cancelled.

so while the spinout bonus of koopa drift is interesting, i really don't see it being that relevant for most match-ups; but as i said, i need to experiment more with it,

 

[guedes the brawler]

Why hit Rosalina with Piercing Cannon when Clown Cannon outright kills Luma.
(Both get GP'd though)

and piercing cannon due to being faster has more of a chance to hit.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

i do think side-b 3 is the better one of his side-bs. you only need to control when to jump off the move.... it has super armor, can bury people and is by far the fastest version of the move especially jump-cancelled.

so while the spinout bonus of koopa drift is interesting, i really don't see it being that relevant for most match-ups; but as i said, i need to experiment more with it,

What happens to his combo game with side b 3 though? It completely butchers it for the sake of a gimmick imo.

 

[guedes the brawler]

What happens to his combo game with side b 3 though? It completely butchers it for the sake of a gimmick imo.

what combos he has that are more rewarding than burial to up-b, and require a side-b1 hit? you also forget it really helps with jr's approach and the side-b stuffs many other things people do. especially many projectiles which jr struggles with.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

what combos he has that are more rewarding than burial to up-b, and require a side-b1 hit? you also forget it really helps with jr's approach and the side-b stuffs many other things people do. especially many projectiles which jr struggles with.

Side b > uair > uair
side b > weak uair > fair
side b > up b
side b > up b > hammer
side b > dair > side b > dair
side b > dair > fair
side b > footstool > up b > hammer

The list goes on.

 

[Reaperfan]

Side b > uair > uair
side b > weak uair > fair
side b > up b
side b > up b > hammer
side b > dair > side b > dair
side b > dair > fair
side b > footstool > up b > hammer

The list goes on.

Now imagine a situation where you're getting walled out with good projectile coverage ala Megaman, Duckhunt, or Villager and can very rarely actually approach with side-1. The super armor of Side-3 and multiple hitboxes of Side-2 that fizzle most projectiles become much more appealing.