Official Stage Legality Discussion: Stage Specific

[Tesh]

Falco does well on way more stages than ICs. So does Olimar.

 

[C.J.]

Both still have to deal with Brinstar/RC game three. Falco has to deal with Lylat and maybe Delphino. If Falco doesn't win game 1, he's still in a lot of trouble (which is what you asked). Olimar wasn't my argument since he's still good most places.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Constantly pressuring with projectiles with basically 0 risk of being grabbed?

Last time I saw 1lImat1c play and ICs, he lost. And it wasn't a top ICs either. Not sure what N1coIe has done tho.

Nicole beat Vinnie pretty solidly from what I heard at concentrate.

She is broken at the MU, literally best Peach at that MU.

~

Ok Grim, say what you want about TL I guess. I know what the MU is like from watching it unfold multiple times.

IMO,

ZSS
TL
Snake
Diddy
Peach

Should have an advantage on them.

 

[C.J.]

I REALLY don't understand how IC lose to Diddy. Can someone please explain that one to me ._.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Bananas.

That is all.

 

[C.J.]

The thing that IC can use just as well as, if not better than, DDK due to there being two of them. Add that to the fact that if IC do get both of them Diddy has no way through intelligent Blizzard camping.
Okay, sure, assume that they do get hit by a banana and trip and are separated. Diddy's not particularly well known for being able to kill (or gimp) so it seems like he benefits less off of them being separated that someone like snake, Marth, or Ike would. Diddy is slow in the air so he can't reliably air/platform camp IC w/o getting juggled *somewhat* easily. IB seems effective enough to stop banana tosses if used well. Add IB to the fact that IC can be desynched and yeah... I don't really see IC having that much trouble with bananas at all =/. His moves aren't overly safe on shield, and when IC does manage to get a banana from Diddy, Diddy trips and gets grabbed.

I'm not saying Diddy necessarily wins it (although I believe he does), but I don't see it being better than even for Diddy.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

They don't use it better than Diddy does, they are kinda scary with a banana but they are not downright better with one.

If Diddy let's them get both banana's he's doing it wrong. Diddy can body a solo climber pretty well actually.

I can't speak much for the MU, but a lot of players seem to favor +1 for Diddy on both sides who main those characters.

 

[-LzR-]

Just who doesn't say another character has a better bananacontrol than Diddy? It just isn't true
But yeah, one banana can lead to a stock with IC, but the same applies vice versa. The whole MU on a quick glance seems like a stock for a stock type of matchup. Every mistake you do and you kinda die =/

 

[C.J.]

I may have phrased that badly. I meant to imply that because there is two of them, if one if holding a banana, the other still has all of their options open so that while Diddy is somewhat restricted while holding a banana, that is not necessarily true of IC. If Diddy is on the ground with a banana in his hand, the options he has are actually really limited. He has to throw the banana (be it, up, down, GT, JCIT, etc) or jump to Z-drop it to use an aerial. Either way his options are limited (well, I guess he can fsmash w/ an item in hand by holding A or something) while IC can still dtilt, ftilt, etc. The item game itself may not be better than Diddy's, but his ability to have moves open while keeping the item away from Diddy seems to be a very strong advantage that no other character can claim.

EDIT: I'm not arrogant enough to assume I'm automatically right. I've just never really seen a good discussion of it and it seems, to be, to be IC favor or even (at worst). If someone were to actually show me why Diddy might win I'd be more than happy to reverse my opinion.

 

[Ghostbone]

Diddy doesn't beat IC.

Bananas are good? He can't safely get them out against IC >.>

It seems like one of those match-ups that people went "Oh Diddy has bananas, bananas can drop when being hit interrupting CGs, automatically in his favour" and then tried to justify it through other reasoning.
ICs aren't that simple...

I may just be bad at the match-up, but it doesn't feel like Diddy's favour at all, +1 IC imo.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yeah, I feel that its even to slight advantage ICs as well.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Anyone can punish Diddy for a banana pull if he does it wrong. :/

 

[Vinnie]

Nicole beat Vinnie pretty solidly from what I heard at concentrate.

Funny how word gets around. It was a friendly set. No disrespect to her but yeah.

Peach either is 0 or +1 against ICs.

 

[Nicole]

they dont hear it from me, bro. i only said it on the bbr matchup panels.

 

[Tesh]

I still don't get where you all are coming from with ICs being that amazing. I can look at solo mains of other characters and say "this is how good this character can be" just the same as ICs and they look pretty bad by comparison.

ICs pretty much HAVE to be carried to be of any use.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You underrate ICs on counterpicks.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Funny how word gets around. It was a friendly set. No disrespect to her but yeah.

Peach either is 0 or +1 against ICs.

they dont hear it from me, bro. i only said it on the bbr matchup panels.

I heard from friends, didn't know you said it in the BBR Vinnie and Nicole lol.